Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Discuss.

Right I'm off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Started due to not wanting to clutter and ruin yet another good thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/620893.page

They're underpowered. In Morgoth we trust.

 koooaei wrote:
They're underpowered. In Morgoth we trust.

Exalted for great truth!

There was a thread earlier this month on this exact subject, but I think it got closed.

Summation of my opinion of the Wave Serpent: It has the Transport ability of the Rhino, Combat capability of the Predator, and Survivability of the Land Raider. In short: OP.

So how are Wave Serpents OP, again? i lost three of them in my last game against Tau due to 2 railgun Hammerheads.

Better this thread gets closed than countless others because a certain person persists on derailing multiple threads saying WS are underpowered...

Wave Serpents are ridiculous.

Verviedi wrote:
So how are Wave Serpents OP, again? i lost three of them in my last game against Tau due to 2 railgun Hammerheads.

Just because they died in a game to a vehicle specifically aimed at taking out tanks and vehicles doesn't mean they're not OP...

Verviedi wrote:
So how are Wave Serpents OP, again? i lost three of them in my last game against Tau due to 2 railgun Hammerheads.

Remember, kids, the plural of 'anecdote' is 'fact'.

Verviedi wrote:
So how are Wave Serpents OP, again? i lost three of them in my last game against Tau due to 2 railgun Hammerheads.

Did I say they were invincible or OP? Because OP doesn't mean they can't be dealt with. They are OP because all of their traits are shoved into one Objective-Secured, undercosted package.

Btw, the other thread mentioned something about krak grenades killing Wave Serpents.. How the actual feth is that even possible with a competent plastic toy general controlling the Wave Serpents?

 Zewrath wrote:
Btw, the other thread mentioned something about krak grenades killing Wave Serpents.. How the actual feth is that even possible with a competent plastic toy general controlling the Wave Serpents?

Can someone explain the mechanics of this to me?

Side note: When I quote you, the work feth actually shows up as feth, not feth. You know what I mean.

WS really need a way to deal with AV14. Like put Lance on serpent shield or something. Also d6+1 is too random, just make it 7.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
Btw, the other thread mentioned something about krak grenades killing Wave Serpents.. How the actual feth is that even possible with a competent plastic toy general controlling the Wave Serpents?

Can someone explain the mechanics of this to me?

Side note: When I quote you, the work feth actually shows up as feth, not feth. You know what I mean.

<Generic untenable claim about Wave Serpents being non OP>

 Murenius wrote:
<Generic untenable claim about Wave Serpents being non OP>

<Generic one time anecdote about a wave serpent being destroyed, put forward as evidence to it not being OP>

 Blacksails wrote:

 Murenius wrote:
<Generic untenable claim about Wave Serpents being non OP>

<Generic one time anecdote about a wave serpent being destroyed, put forward as evidence to it not being OP>

<Generic justification of wave serpents being totally fine because wailing banshees>

Wave Serpents are ok. I don't know why people whine about them. I hard-counter them with Pyrovore spam.

 TychoTerziev wrote:
Wave Serpents are ok. I don't know why people whine about them. I hard-counter them with Pyrovore spam.

I mean, I use Flayed ones or vespids usually but it's pretty much the same deal, everyone just needs to adapt to the new meta.

 koooaei wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Murenius wrote:
<Generic untenable claim about Wave Serpents being non OP>

<Generic one time anecdote about a wave serpent being destroyed, put forward as evidence to it not being OP>

<Generic justification of wave serpents being totally fine because wailing banshees>

<generic comment about orkz and math highly unrelated to anything involving a wave serpent>

Wave Serpents need to be given assault, it would make them useful and give Howling Banshees a delivery method.

 Rismonite wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Murenius wrote:
<Generic untenable claim about Wave Serpents being non OP>

<Generic one time anecdote about a wave serpent being destroyed, put forward as evidence to it not being OP>

<Generic justification of wave serpents being totally fine because wailing banshees>

<generic comment about orkz and math highly unrelated to anything involving a wave serpent>

<generic comment that the only reason the wave serpent is seen as so powerful is because only terrible WAAC players use them and no one who's a good person actually spams them, thus bad balance is "totally fine guiz">

the_scotsman wrote:

 TychoTerziev wrote:
Wave Serpents are ok. I don't know why people whine about them. I hard-counter them with Pyrovore spam.

I mean, I use Flayed ones or vespids usually but it's pretty much the same deal, everyone just needs to adapt to the new meta.

It's an assault-edition, running around in fast skimmer tanks is a death trap to my Space Marine Scouts!

 Zewrath wrote:
Btw, the other thread mentioned something about krak grenades killing Wave Serpents.. How the actual feth is that even possible with a competent plastic toy general controlling the Wave Serpents?

I know, I was thinking that as well.

The only reasonable situation I can see that in is with Assault Marines, but I believe the OP said it was Tactical Marines.

Krak grenades: OP.

Wave Serpents should be a Fast Attack choice. As a squadron of 1-3. That way they can float around with their vulnerable backs to each other and form a spinning circle of death.

In addition to being a DT.

Wave Serpents should be MCs. For fluff reasons.

They're clearly the second coming of the Old Ones.

It can be difficult to tell what posts in here are serious, and which aren't.

Serpent is OP, but it does have some weaknesses. Not enough to be fair, but don't ignore them.

Krak grenades at range might ding them. They add just a little more oomph to a podded combatsquadded plasma tac squad (plasma > melts when popping serpents). Also, each marine is a threat-in-being thanks to having those kraks, so they can do some area denial. Granted, between the serpent's range and firepower, this won't change the game but will help. Marine bikers though, if not obliterated, would be able to run down a Serpent. Eventually. Bottom line, it can help, but alone will get trounced by Serpents as they currently are.

As for transport of a rhino/output of a Predator/survivability of a Land Raider, that's a bit off. Its closer to the survivability of a Predator than a Land Raider. And costs as much as a rhino + predator. So either better firepower or better survivability than rhino + predator for about the same price tag. A Lascannon is much more deadly to a Serpent than a Land Raider. An autocannon is much more deadly to a Serpent than Predator, and cant hurt a Land Raider. Sure, Melta in half range or high-s Armorbane on front armor is going to be scarier to the thing designed to soak fire than the thing designed to not get hit, but that shouldn't be a surprise. But what about a blastmaster or Tyranid shooting? Or melee? Or s6/7? Most of the time though, a Serpent is much more vulnerable than a Land Raider, probably about the same class as a Predator.

If it weren't for the Serpent Shield's OP shooting, it'd probably be fair.

I've played Eldar a lot so trust me, I know - Wave Serpents are not OP. They are just one of 40ks excellent units, but there are plenty of excellent units so they are no OP. Sure, they might be better than every single model available to every single army in 40k except for maybe 1, and can be taken in triple the number of most standard units, but hey, at the end of the day, what does overpowered really mean? Its not about winning games it's just that they are really easy to stomp noobs with like most posters on Dakka, high level wave serpent play takes a lot of skill and decision making or Eldar is almost guaranteed to lose, LOL jimsolo your credibility just got revoked you all have goldfish memories talk to me when you realise how 40k works on a competitive level, dude your codex just sucks, wow you think Dark Eldar need a buff to Haywire now LOL keep whining, I have a bunch of stats backing up my claim that Eldar isn't OP with only a 60% overall win rate in 6th ed tournaments which only makes them the highest by like 5%, just because you haven't learnt how to beat serpents does not make them OP, shuppet I'm not responding in this thread again until you learn how to discuss competitive 40k, have you ever even been to a tournament?

<Generic comment totally missing the irony of the other posts elaborating over many lines how WS are not OP>

edit: Oops, several guys were quicker and already posted this

Honestly the only thing about Wave Serpents that needs to be changed is the shield IMO. Either it does its shenanigans of turning a Penetrating hit into a Glance OR allows a shooting attack, not have the ability to do both.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Summation of my opinion of the Wave Serpent: It has the Transport ability of the Rhino

Larger capacity, but only a single rear ramp, and no fire points,

Combat capability of the Predator,

Similar,

and Survivability of the Land Raider.

AV10 on the rear? Jink doesn't help there. AV14 is immune to anything* below S8, but S6 has a chance against AV12.

So, of those 3 points:
Different,
Similar,
Similar at shooting, but worse in cc.

But, it's easy to spam WC, for a hefty price.

Its clearly not OP.

Just really, really excellent.

Totally different things because they're totally different words.

Totes.

Did you know that points costs are irrelevant, and unless you have both the durability of a land raider and the firepower of a leman Russ you are definitely not unbalanced?


Wtf is with all these abstract ass multiple comparisons, look at it for what it is and at the price it costs, if I see one more post comparing the durability to a raider at the same time as comparing the firepower to something completely different and some third comparison elsewhere all designed to explain how this unit isn't OP.., it's ridiculous lol.

How many people out here actually think this model is balanced? What is this, Shadow Dakka?

Can OP add a 2 answer poll at top lol

Done.