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I was invited to play Warmachine at a new LGS tomorrow. I haven't played Warmachine in years and am basically a newbie. I have a large amount of Khador models that I've collected over the years with the intention of getting back into it, but I never did. But I didn't get rid of my models either. The guys I'm going to play with told me to bring a Battlegroup and a few other things if I wanted and we'd figure out the size of the game when we get there. I really like Vlad and would like to use him, but I have no idea what I would take in a Vlad-centered Battlegroup instead of using the Sorsha one. Does anyone have a few ideas on some lists I could use at this small of a game? As I said, I have quite a few to choose from, so anything goes. Except I don't like the look of Demolishers or Democorps. As well as a possible list, do you mind throwing in some basic pointers on how to run it? The guys I'm playing with know I'm a newbie and are going to walk me through the basics, but I want to have a general idea of what I'm doing. Thanks in advance!

Well first question is do you have the current cards? In 2010 Mk2 completely overhauled the ruleset, and everything got new cards.

Second, Demolishers and Man-o-wars are generally sub-par for their cost. Although the Demolisher isn't bad, its actually quite nasty with Signs and Portents from Vlad.


As you already have stuff, I would go with the following list to start off with. I'm assuming you have the following stuff.

15 pts

Vlad1
-Spriggan
-War Dog
max Winter Guard Infantry with UA and 1 Rocketeer


Khador lists generally take 1 warjack, which is typically either a Spriggan, Beast-09, or Behemoth, and then a bunch of infantry. They're not a jack faction OR a heavy infantry faction.

Expanding from this, you'll want to add Kovnik Joe and 2 more Rocketeers to complete the Winterguard Deathstar. This is a very common unit+solo combo. They particularly love Sorscha's Iron Flesh spell, but Signs and Portents spikes their offense.

Widowmakers and a Widowmaker Marksman is another good package which needs no support from the caster. You can reliably kill 5 dudes a turn with this, or put 5 damage on a jack/beast.

Another infantry package is Ironfang Pikemen with Black Dragon UA and an Ironfang Kovnik. Durable(absurdly so on one turn of your choice), decently fast, and they can hit hard. And since the Black Dragon UA is FA2 you can actually have 2 units of Black Dragons and 2 Kovniks for twice the fun.


All 3 versions of Vlad are amazing. Vlad 1 and 2 just love a bunch of dudes. Vlad 3 also likes a bunch of dudes but he has a slight specialization in Ironfang Uhlans.

If we're talking PVlad near as I can tell he likes to have a large quantity of attacks on the field; cheap infantry, folks that can make lots of attacks, and/or powerful but unreliable attacks are best for him. He likes at least some ranged units to get the most out of S&P, and he makes less-than-accurate folks much more reliable. Winter Guard with the UA are one of the most efficient units to try this with simply because of the sheer quantity of dice they can dump onto the field.

As to the 'Jacks most Khador warcasters want to pick one (in rare cases two) depending on the situation; the Spriggan is fairly expensive but it's a versatile toolbox that can do a lot of things at least reasonably well, provides support to a range-oriented army, and has an impressive threat range on Vlad1's feat turn. Consider Drago (who is less expensive, a dedicated melee unit that can engage a variety of targets, and has an Affinity that makes him very strong in an army with Vlad) and the Destroyer (who has a more powerful ranged attack for fewer points if you want to play the ranged game) as potential alternate warjacks.

Vlad2 never wants more than one warjack, and his feat works best with murder solos (Manhunters, Drakhuns, the like), and his lesser S&P targets a single unit, he prefers quality over quantity in his infantry (The Man-O'-War Democorps is a pretty good selection with him), and with the sheer quantity of available upkeeps Wyshnalyrr (I'm sure I'm butchering the spelling horribly) is a pretty good selection.
Vlad3 is all about the alpha strike; he likes units/solos that were already fast and makes his 'Jack faster so it can keep up.

Thanks for the replies! The game didn't end up happening, but we're planning for it this week. I didn't realize that the cards I had were older ones, too. So I've ordered all the cards to go with the models I have.

Both of you mentioned using full Winter Guard Infantry with the UA and that is actually one unit combo I don't have yet. I do have 5 older metal ones, but none of the rocketeers or UA - I imagine that they won't be worth taking as a Leader and 5 Grunts. BUT I do have a full unit of Winter Guard Rifle Corps and Kovnik Joe. How does this look to start with?

PVlad (WJ +5)
Spriggan (10-5=5)
War Dog (1)
WG Riffle Corps (8)
Kovnik Joe (2)

This comes out to 16 Pts, which I'm sure my opponent will be fine with (since he is much more experience and kind of walking me through this anyway).

I also have a full unit of Pikemen and their UA. Would that be a better fit with PVlad than the Rile Corps? I just worry that I don't have much in the way of shooting. Once we step the points up a bit I will add a unit of Widow Makers in if using the Pikemen. I'm also working to finish my Drago model so that I can swap him out for the Spriggan asap - which will give me a few more points to play with.

Is there a simple strategy you could give me to abide by while deploying and using this small force? The guy I'm playing is a nice guy who isn't looking to steamroll me but actually trying to get more players to play. But I still want to look like I have a clue Thanks again!

Probably a good idea to assume you don't want to go over points at all in Warmachine; there are enough one-point models that showing up exactly at the game's points limit is a realistic goal.

The problem with the Winter Guard Riflecorps is that they've got one optimal target (high-DEF low-ARM infantry, ATGM and the like) that doesn't see play a lot at low points and can't handle high-ARM targets at all. The regular Winter Guard Infantry unit would be significantly more useful simply because they have Combined Ranged Attack and can actually affect warjacks in a way the Riflecorps can't.

If I were you I'd keep PVlad and the Spriggan but leave Kovnik Joe, the Winter Guard, and the War Dog behind in favour of the Iron Fangs and the UA; they'll be more useful at fifteen points since they can absorb more damage and engage a wider range of targets.

1 point is HUGE in warmachine. Don't go over in this game. Drop that dog if you can't afford him.

Winterguard Rifle Corps are also great with Kovnik Joe, they just aren't as good in melee as the Infantry. 14" is really long range for this game.

As for deployment, generally turn 1 is all about running. So the only general thing with deployment is you don't want to trip over your own models. So make sure you don't block where your Spriggan and Vlad want to run.

Yeah, honestly you could just drop the wardog and you would have the same points as your friend. Even if he's more experienced, you don't want to arbitrarily give yourself a handicap

I meant to say that by going over one point the guy I'm playing with could up his as necessary since he has a lot of stuff, but I'll just drop the dog. Actually, since I have till this Thursday (if my cards come in on time) I'll just get the Iron Fangs and UA I have based and ready to go (When I was last working on them I was focusing on replacing the spears with brass rod - an almost necessary step for these awesome models) and use them as my main force till I can get more Winter Guard and their UA. So many options!

I was ultimately envisioning my main army as a few squads of Iron Fang Pikemen ( 2 squads and 1 Black Dragon squad), a unit of Uhlans, the Spriggan and Drago, Grey Lords, Doom Reavers, various solos (IF Kovniks, Markhov, Great Bears, etc), and either of the 3 Vlads. With this being the style of army I wanted to field originally there's no point in working on other units (like WG RC) till I expand from here. I also have 2 Berserkers (1 built atm) that would also add to the theme (from tier lists). I can't tell you how excited I am! Def hoping the cards come in by Thursday. Thanks again for the input everyone.

Ironfang Pikemen are FA2, so you can't have 3 units outside of multi-warcaster games, which doesn't happen very often.

Just go double Black Dragons. That UA is also FA2, the regular is only FA1.

Right, just noticed that look at the book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another question: what is the state of the current restic resin being used by PP? I bought the Battlebox over the summer and haven't really touched it because I hate the material used. That's another reason of the army design I'm going for: all metal minis. I know some people despise metal minis, but I love working with it. The design of the new resin stuff is nice, but the working the actual models pissed me off too much. Is all the resin like this or is the resin of newer items better than the stuff in the Battlebox? I took every tool in my arsenal to it and the only thing that seems to work on clearing mold lines is actually cutting it away with a hobby knife, which takes slight chunks out of it. It's a shame that filing doesn't work on this material. So I'm making sure to only use and get things that are metal at this point. That's one hold up on getting a Winter Guard unit going - I'm having to build it by getting used metal stuff. I like the redesign of the resin models, but I'm just worried of spending the money on them and finding that the resin is the same as the Battlebox and hard to work with.

All of the current plastic models PP has use that particular material at the moment.

In January, they will be releasing their first hard plastic model(Convergence Battle Engine) and we can expect any new plastics to use that. Although there is no plan to resculpt existing models into hard plastic in the foreseeable future. So stuff which is the crummy old plastic will remain as such for a while.

I should say that some of the newer kits made of the old plastic are much better than some of the older ones. The new winterguard are actually decent. Its still not great material, but the quality is better.

Jan? I thought it was Feb for the CoC BE

I might be wrong. Haven't been following it closely. Point being its in a few months and that its going to be a very slow transition.

Well, the fact that they're even doing things in a new plastic is a step in the right direction - even it if may take a while for older models to get redone. I am at least grateful that they still do metal models for characters and solos, even if they have gone up a bit in price over the years. It's been crazy going through the blisters and boxes I have from many years ago and comparing the price tags on them to the current prices. I understand inflation and all that, but still. Makes me glad that I stocked up when I did and never got rid of them during my time away.

@ Grey Templar: I've been looking over things I have and my list idea. You mentioned the other day of doing Black Dragons instead of regular Iron Fang Pikemen. The $ cost of the upgrade kit aside, you recommend that I run my IFP as BD over regular? I have 2 boxes of IFP and 2 sets of IFP UA. I've read a little I can find around about IFP and BD pros and cons and it's kind of melting my brain atm lol. Is it worth it to assemble and paint my IFP with magnetic shields so I can swap between the two or just stick with BD? Am I always better off choosing BD over IFP? Or should I do one set as regular IFP and get the upgrade for the second and don't bother with magnetizing the shields?

Does any of that make sense? Lol

I'd actually recommend starting out with the normal UA, the rules the Black Dragons do differently make them a more specialized/niche unit that's harder to get the most out of. Regular IFP are fairly durable and mobile as shieldwall infantry go, Black Dragons hit harder against 'jacks/'beasts and can take a hit better but you have to be a lot more careful positioning them and enemies that can generate terrain will mess them up royally.

As I'm just starting out, that makes sense AnomanderRake. I'll sit on the second box of IFP till I get better versed with my starter force and go from there. I'll just plan on the second unit being Black Dragons eventually and get the Upgrade later. I wasn't relishing the thought of replacing all the Spears with Brass Rod at once anyway lol.

Played my first game last night and it was awesome! I ended up just playing the regular Battlegroup Box. I won against the Cygnar Battlegroup Box my buddy borrowed to test it out. He liked it enough that he bought a Retribution Battlegroup - looks like they will be my main enemy.

I loved Sorsha's reach and I will miss it when I start playing Vlad, but after being somewhat familiar with Sorsha, it makes me uber excited to play Vlad now. I'm going to try out pVlad, Drago, and 2 Berserkers on Thursday. Also going to take my unit of unfinished IFP just in case, but I wanna try out the all jack list.

What a fun game!?