Switch Theme:

Not enough army choice in 40k  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Sneaky Lictor





Fantasy is tempting with it's many varied armies. But rulrs, players, investment hold me back.

Do you think 40k just doesn't have enough races?

I see it as:

Space Marines don't really vary. BA and Space Wolves are cool, but they don't have enough models to be unique.
Chaos and Deamons are different enough.
Dark Eldar / Eldar are different enough also.

But i think their should be room for something else. A cyborb race that were humans but they were influenced by Necrons. They are just around to survive with their small populated race but are trying to steal what they can, technology or materials. Mildly intelligent, mildly strong. They have good tactics but play dirty.

Another alien race perhaps. Basic massive numbers and some large monsters. More basic than Nids, but concious of their numbers, so they aren't always aggressive. No psychic defence or offence, but winning via picking the correct prey. The race has been ignored due to being more of a nuisance on planets than a threat, but over the centuries they have bred and increased in numbers. Their form of space travel came from a few of the smarter creatures evolving and being able to fly captured imperial craft. The smarter leaders carry a few heavy weapons that they got from the imperial forces, the lesser creatures are poisonous to most, and the big monstors crush even Wrath Knights and Carnifex with ease.

A strange mysterious race, ghost like in their mass, uneffected by the warp with their even lesser mental mass. Physics fails to understand or even describe how such ghost like bodies move in and out of time. Their purpose unknown, only guesses of their arrival can give understanding. Came from another time or entirely different universe. They randomly attack anything, they've been found to appear drifting on lifeless planets for months, with no apparent reason. They have no pyschic pressence, yet destroy the minds of weak individuals without a weapon. They do however to use projectiles of light, upon hitting the target the light turns into invisible mass. With their slight mass prescence they disapear upon being shot at. Weapons of numbers rather than strength effect them more. If they were of complete presence of this world, only the fast to flee would probably survive. They earn't the name of the Silent Screamers through the imperium scaring children and toughened soldiers alike.

Any good? Or do i suck. I'm at work burning time so got me thinking.

[edit]
Excuse phone typos. That's also 3 different race ideas btw.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/21 14:52:53


 
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




My secret fortress at the base of the volcano!

I'd like Squats to come back, but people roll their eyes when you tell them that.

Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?) 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Southern California, USA

I agree. We need more Space Marine variant chapters. I think Iron Hands and Imperial Fists should get their own Codex.

Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!  
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

I actually agree. There is not enough actual army choices. I do not consider having half the factions belong to the same group (i.e. Imperium) to be choice, because it's stupid from a game perspective and breaks immersion and "narrative" for two Imperial armies to fight each other in the majority of cases.

There is too much variety in that there doesn't need to be four different types of Marine armies that are distinct from each other - they could easily be consolidated into one with some special things to differentiate them that doesn't need to be a separate army. It really limits the narrative aspects when half of your army choices are allies and wouldn't realistically fight each other in actual battles.

This is one of the reasons I personally wish that GW would advance the 40k storyline, and break apart the Imperium. They could keep the same armies but let's say the Ultramarines and their successors are their own group with their own empire, so there would be an in-game reason for the Space Wolves (let's imagine that they went to being raiders and mercenary types) to attack them instead of hand-waving it away as a training exercise or Captain Hercules suggested that Wolf Lord McWulf should gnaw on a bone and it came to blows.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/21 16:01:29


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





More than half of all armies are Imperial. That's a problem.



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






The problem with new races boil down to:

1) is there enough broad variance in the race to have a number of interesting units?

The last two races released were new Necrons (full race redesign) and tau. IMO tau except for its suits failed this. Their tanks are all very similar looking with simplistic weaponry and their infantry had the potential for awesomeness with all the small races under their command but fell flat with no upgrades. Upgrade less infantry works but they have to do VERY unique things like Eldar aspect warriors.

Necrons I feel hit just the right notes. They kept what made old crons unique and added more. Sure maybe the race was overtuned a bit in 6th but what's important is that they do their own thing and have their own variety.

Honestly, the best potential for new races are IMO:

-a squat-like space dwarf archetype. Doesn't have to be bearded midgets, I actually like the War of the Worlds archetype of beings that can't move on normal worlds without mechanical assistance. I think that underground moving units and terrain manipulation has great gameplay potential and I'd love to see a deepstrike focused, non-alphastrike army. I want a zone control race, which pops up out of the ground and entrenches, creating "forward bases" and controls enemy movement through weapons that impede and create no-go zones rather than killing outright.

-Adeptus Mechanicus. The forgeworld mechanicum list is amazing and I wish to god it would get ported to 40k with some small targeted power reductions. The Archmagi are definitely designed around 30k's larger than life characters and the vehicles are made for apocalypse-scale battles but with a little toning down in power and cost Mechanicum would be an amazing 40k army.

-Sisters of Battle complete overhaul. Plastic kits, new vehicles, new units. Faith and divine acts are a very cool gameplay space, they just need to tap into that "crusader/zealot" vibe more. And also plastic kits.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

I dont think that Adeptus Mechanicus or SoB will solve the issue, which is that most armies are Imperium so they really are the same faction.

40k needs more not-Imperium races, whether that's full on Xenos or even something like a human (or human-like) race that is distinct from the Imperium, anything to offer more variety over having most of your choices be the same faction that wouldn't likely battle each other. There should be enough variety in the 40k universe for different races, but instead most of it is Imperium to keep up this "Heroic Space Marines versus evil Xenos" 80s cartoon nonsense.

One of the most frustrating things is that for all the "forge the narrative" rubbish, it's hard to do that when you have most players playing Imperium armies of one flavor or another. Maybe in the "gaming club" scenario you might not run into that because you won't have people picking Imperial factions if there already are a few, for the sake of variety, but in the more common "pickup game" scenario it's likely that you'll play an Imperium player more often than not, so there's not much narrative to be forged since outright hostilities from one or the other would be grounds for heresy.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/21 16:21:04


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in ca
Paramount Plague Censer Bearer





WayneTheGame wrote:
I dont think that Adeptus Mechanicus or SoB will solve the issue, which is that most armies are Imperium so they really are the same faction.

40k needs more not-Imperium races, whether that's full on Xenos or even something like a human (or human-like) race that is distinct from the Imperium, anything to offer more variety over having most of your choices be the same faction that wouldn't likely battle each other. There should be enough variety in the 40k universe for different races, but instead most of it is Imperium to keep up this "Heroic Space Marines versus evil Xenos" 80s cartoon nonsense.

One of the most frustrating things is that for all the "forge the narrative" rubbish, it's hard to do that when you have most players playing Imperium armies of one flavor or another. Maybe in the "gaming club" scenario you might not run into that because you won't have people picking Imperial factions if there already are a few, for the sake of variety, but in the more common "pickup game" scenario it's likely that you'll play an Imperium player more often than not, so there's not much narrative to be forged since outright hostilities from one or the other would be grounds for heresy.


The allies rules just magnify the issue. I've honestly stopped calling armies made of Imperial factions by their name and just call them an Imperial army nowadays. If/When 9th comes around I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they just make so any Imperial unit can be be used in any Imperial detachment (eg SM Chapter Master as HQ and say Guardsmen as Troops).

My win rate while having my arms and legs tied behind by back while blindfolded and stuffed in a safe that is submerged underwater:
100% 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well, I think there are enough races. But GW should take care a bit more.
This particularly concerns codex design and specific factions like SOB.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Lictor





the_scotsman wrote:The problem with new races boil down to:

1) is there enough broad variance in the race to have a number of interesting units?

The last two races released were new Necrons (full race redesign) and tau. IMO tau except for its suits failed this. Their tanks are all very similar looking with simplistic weaponry and their infantry had the potential for awesomeness with all the small races under their command but fell flat with no upgrades. Upgrade less infantry works but they have to do VERY unique things like Eldar aspect warriors.

Necrons I feel hit just the right notes. They kept what made old crons unique and added more. Sure maybe the race was overtuned a bit in 6th but what's important is that they do their own thing and have their own variety.

Honestly, the best potential for new races are IMO:

-a squat-like space dwarf archetype. Doesn't have to be bearded midgets, I actually like the War of the Worlds archetype of beings that can't move on normal worlds without mechanical assistance. I think that underground moving units and terrain manipulation has great gameplay potential and I'd love to see a deepstrike focused, non-alphastrike army. I want a zone control race, which pops up out of the ground and entrenches, creating "forward bases" and controls enemy movement through weapons that impede and create no-go zones rather than killing outright.

-Adeptus Mechanicus. The forgeworld mechanicum list is amazing and I wish to god it would get ported to 40k with some small targeted power reductions. The Archmagi are definitely designed around 30k's larger than life characters and the vehicles are made for apocalypse-scale battles but with a little toning down in power and cost Mechanicum would be an amazing 40k army.

-Sisters of Battle complete overhaul. Plastic kits, new vehicles, new units. Faith and divine acts are a very cool gameplay space, they just need to tap into that "crusader/zealot" vibe more. And also plastic kits.


Nice post. A good friend plays Necrons, and if it wasn't for him, i'd be straight on collecting some robot goodness. They're very unique like Nids, and have a very impact-full background to boot.

Tau, i agree. I'd like to see more Kroot. The Kroot are cool. The suits just look like they came straight outta Toys'R'us/ Wallmart.


wuestenfux wrote:Well, I think there are enough races. But GW should take care a bit more.
This particularly concerns codex design and specific factions like SOB.


Can i ask, what armies to you collect or play?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I wish the Tau Empire. would be more about the Empire and less the Tau fire caste. Kroot, vespids, gnarlocs, gue'Sava, etc.

OP: That last race - mysterious quixotic race with absurd mobility and scary-strong weapons, but can't take botlgun rounds, rare, and low model count - is basically Craft world Eldar.

More distinct races would be great. Although the Macharius should be implemented first!
   
Made in us
Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot






Kansas City, MO

Overall, I think the choices are there, especially with the tack on stuff, like Inquisition or Militarum Tempestus. On the other hand, I agree that half of them being Imperial is a bit of a knock. I'd like to see some more Xeno/Chaos choices overall, but that will come in time.

Follow me on Twitch,
Twitter and Instagram


 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Silver Spring, MD

So, I think it's far too late to shoehorn a new major race into the game. You aren't going to be able to introduce anyone on the scale of importance of the Eldar, or Orks, or Tyranids. But you could introduce another race on par with the Tau, because (and this has been a major pet peeve of mine since their introduction) the Tau are an utterly insignificant blip in the galaxy.

Why is this relevant? Because the Tau are basically a stand-in for the kinds of tiny xenos empires the Imperium has discovered, and subsequently crushed, for 10,000 years and counting.* I personally think the range of Tau models should have been more limited, their relevance to the galaxy at large should not have been inflated in their codex, and other similar armies should have been introduced as stand-ins for various other types of xenos armies the Imperium face. "But why would anyone want to play an unimportant sideshow of a race?" I dunno, ask Tau players. It probably helps that they're a cool anime fan mecha army. The trick is finding a similar minor niche to exploit.

In that vein, the idea of a tiny splinter post-human empire would work really well. Basically the Squats, only not literally dwarves in space.

*The fluff is full of stories of crusade forces meeting fantastically advanced alien races, and subsequently wiping them out (at incredible cost, but the Imperium tends to win in the end nonetheless) so the Tau are in no way special. The same enemies that have the Imperium reeling (and thus have given the Tau a reprieve from Exterminatus) are equally threatening to the Tau - the ceaseless flood of Tyranids, the rising Necrons, and probably also Orks that are increasingly going unchecked by Imperial forces. In response to those that clamor for the timeline to "advance", I would point out that the Tau probably have 50/50 odds of even existing in a few hundred years, and if they did, would be even weaker than they are in the "present". Their rate of expansion is far too slow, and the size of their empire far too small, to ever overcome the crippling losses they will eventually face against the Tyranids and Necrons.

Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
 
   
Made in gb
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Anyone have any ideas regarding a race like the Vex from Destiny?

Low model count, most shielded (multiple wounds + high T), some seriously strong weapons, but not a lot of variation between units

Heavily deep-strike oriented, but slow enough so that once deployed that's roughly where they are for the rest of the game.

Experience is something you get just after you need it
The Narkos Dynasty - 15k
Iron Hands - 12k
The Shadewatch - 3k
Cadmus Outriders - 4k
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





The Tau are probably the early stages of someone's master plan, and thus have a sort of in-fluff plot armor: if something would have ended them, Tzeech or Cegorath never would have invested so much in them.

Alternately, they are simply an example of Cegorath trolling us all.
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




Eacute cole Militaire (Paris)

Something like the necromongers from riddick Would be cool

Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace.
For if you do, one day you will look behind you and you will see us And on that day, you will reap it,
and we will send you to whatever god you wish.  
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






No. No more armies. GW needs to fix the existing ones instead of splitting their incredibly limited design talent over even more books and lowering quality even more than they already have.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Please no new armies

Lets just fix the ones we already have so i can take vespids without batting a eye.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




Klingons. Please, Klingons.
   
Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




 jasper76 wrote:
Klingons. Please, Klingons.


I was on the 'no new armies' bandwagon, but now I've changed my mind.
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight



In Warp Transit to next battlefield location, Destination Unknown

As much as I would love to see the return of Squats, how about some Space Lizards like the Gorn or the Slann?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/22 00:56:22


Cowards will be shot! Survivors will be shot again!

 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




While I love the idea of new armies, certainly non-imperium armies, I must side with those calling for GW to 'fix' existing armies first.

If they did release a new army, I'd like to see a race resembling the Krogans from the Mass Effect series, or the Locust from Gears of War.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/22 01:42:20


 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





Does OP not recognize Necrons, Nids, Tau, and Orks as their own armies?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






Would love to see a new race although not to sure what way they should go with it.
Suppose could be an advance race that has just started to set up outposts in known space or some sort of dimensional rift type situation.

Or rebel remainets of the old ones with lots of sub race helper's slain/lizards and so on could add in shield projectors that they can deploy during game to block line of sight or give anything behind it an invun save the ability to change the battle feild.
   
Made in ca
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

What 40k needs is a few more marine chapters with codices.

Easiest way to add more army choices, right? I mean look at how different the Red marines are from the Blue marines or even the Green marines.

Variety

Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress

+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+

Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! 
   
Made in gb
Humorless Arbite





Hull

I do agree, we need more Xenos.

I actually believe instead of giving an entire Codex to each Xeno race... there should be a single codex which allows you to run a Xeno detachment. All the cool minor Xenos thrown into a single codex.

Hrud, Thyrrus, Lacrymole, Psy-Gore etc. etc.

That way they can add in all the cool stuff they want without having to make a whole codex for each species. Also, they'd make more money and it would spice up the game and add more variety.


   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought






AL

GW definitely needs to fix their rulebooks and armies before adding new armies, and if they add new armies, they better be xenos.

I think it'd be neat to see the likes of the Hrud or Slaugth

Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.

"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





I think there's plenty enough factions.

Tyranids
Tau
Orks
Necrons
Eldar
Dark Eldar
Deamons
CSM

That's 8 factions without touching the Imperium. I think that's totally fine. Even if you bundle all the Imperium as a single faction, that's still 9 factions. To be fair, you really need to split the Imperium in to at least 2...

Imperial Guard
Space Marines

They play so differently and have such unique aesthetics that there's not much point bundling them together.

So at the very minimum, 10 unique factions while ignoring all the smaller Imperial stuff (Knights, SOB, Inquisition, Grey Knights).

If you want to argue that there's too much emphasis on the Imperium, ok I kind of agree... but there's hardly a lack of variety.

It could always be better, but I hardly consider it lacking.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/22 02:40:13


 
   
Made in gb
Humorless Arbite





Hull

Tbh, I just find the Necrons, Tau and Eldar (both variants) too humanoid. Hell even Orks are still similar to Humans.
The only ones which are totally 'Xenos', are the nids.

This is why I'd like more races like-

The Thyrrus. Giant slug creatures with plasma who love the spectacle of war more than anything else.
Spoiler:


The Hrud. Bog Monster creatures who prematurely age anything they come near to.
Spoiler:


Umbra. Psychic Shadow Spheres that can shapeshift.
Spoiler:


I just want more Xeno-ey Xenos.

   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

I think there's a huge amount of army variance. From the smooth elegance of the eldar to the ramshackle barbarism of the orks, there are a myriad number of options to choose from. You've got the gritty real-world recognizability of the Imperial Guard on one end, and at the other end the dynamic, vastly alien look and feel of the Tau. You've got Necrons if you want an army with the weight of ages behind its appearance, or the Tyranids for that fecund tide of unrestrained life.

And the Marine chapters are as different from one another as night and day. There is no way you can see the unrestrained savagery of the Space Wolves and then think it's "the same" as the disciplined baroque appearance of a well-done Ultramarines force.

There's an almost never ending amount of variation available in the armies that already exist. Adding another race at this point would seem like shoehorning in something that doesn't really belong in the setting. (Although if literally every poll I've seen on the subject since I started playing this game is anything to go on, fan support is in favor of an Ad Mech force, for that 'cybernetic, abandoned humanity' feel.)

Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: