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2014/11/23 22:26:29
Subject: Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Currently I have a 2000pts army that consists of a tooled up succubus n Archon, 4 squads of wyches in raiders and four squads of kabalites with lances backed up by two ravagers and a squad of hellions.
However I am really not having any joy with them atm since the current playstyle of my gaming group is to take the bare minimum of troops and go all tanks. The last game I just had one of them even brought a super heavy.
Basically this renders 70% of my army worthless. They literally just wait to get shot whilst my opponents deliberately target all of my anti tank weapons.
So, I am considering just taking an unbound list with 7 ravagers, a wraithknight and a load of scourges with haywire. But if anyone can suggest a better way of dealing with this within the force org chart it'd be good to hear. People at my club are still iffy about unbound, although TBH I don't see how you can have super heavies and barely follow the spirit of the force org by going all tank and still complain.
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Starting Sons of Horus Legion
Starting Daughters of Khaine
2000pts Sisters of Silence
4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
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2014/11/23 22:29:01
Subject: Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought
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The guys in my group use scourges and vypers and trash vehicles. Haywire is pretty amazing too!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/23 22:29:27
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2014/11/23 22:46:16
Subject: Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Well the new codex isn't super powerful or anything, but there are plenty of decent options. Wyches and Hellions however, are just plain bad. I'd say your list has a serious lack of anti-armour for any environment, even friendly ones and let alone the tank-heavy one you describe. Get a few small warrior squads in Venoms, maybe a couple of larger ones in Raiders and you have your anti-tank/anti- MC. Get some Scourges and Trueborn with Blasters and together with your Ravagers you have your anti armour. If you want some melee units then I'd suggest some Grotesques, maybe using the Covens supplement.
Here's a brief podcast with a tournament winning DE player, I'd have no idea how to play with his list to be honest but it's a good listen http://alliesofconvenience.podbean.com/e/bonus-episode-dark-eldar-special/.
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2014/11/23 22:50:12
Subject: Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Thanks. So do you give the kabalites blaster and lancesin the venoms?
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Starting Sons of Horus Legion
Starting Daughters of Khaine
2000pts Sisters of Silence
4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
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2014/11/23 22:52:45
Subject: Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought
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I just know those units shred all of the rest of our (mech leaning) armies hah. But I'm pretty sure yes on the lances.
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2014/11/24 01:45:38
Subject: Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Wychs are crap so you have 4-500pts of mince which won't help
Try true bloods in venoms 4blasters or 2blasters 2dlances
Scourges are also great at knocking out tanks heat lances or haywire blasters
Or you could go with pain engines 3 in a squad twin linked haywire then kill anything when close or detachment 5 pain engines and gain the scout/outflank rule to make sure you get nice and close.
Dark eldar are not about stand up and fight they are about sneaky cold heartedness tank fires at front guy mean while some one drops in behind and bang goes the tank.
Use your raiders with night shields to harras the enemy getting shot at 3+jink while your forces deep strike behind
Another thing to do is concentrate on one side of the board rather than spreading your forces out
Unfortunately I can't see a place for wyches in dark eldar army
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2014/11/24 01:47:36
Subject: Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Fresh-Faced New User
Adelaide
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If you are playing against anything with ignore cover grab a skyshield and pop your ravagers on that.
If there is not much ignore cover then grab a defense line so your vehicles do not need to jink when they get shot at (4+ cover for anything behind an ADL).
You will be wanting some trueborn with blasters in a raider x 3
Bikes with heatlances or blasters are great.
Scourges packing haywires are a good choice too.
Coven supplement has decent formations with 5 talos (corpseclaw) or hq and 2 grotesque squads. the talos can be kitted out with heat lances or haywires, have scout and are really tough to move.
Wych squads are now utterly rubbish, there is no reason to ever put them in an army list.
Warrior squads should be small, in a vehicle with a blaster.
MSU really with as many special weapons as you can pack.
The skyshield or defence line will give you some additional survivability.
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2014/11/24 03:51:20
Subject: Re:Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Hellish Haemonculus
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Coven units can be sweet too. In an assault, Grotesques can take out vehicles with rear armor up to 11. And Talos engines can just WRECK vehicles. (A Corpsethief claw would not go amiss here.)
Since the new codex, Cluster Caltrops can affect vehicles (as can Bladevanes) which makes Reavers a much more attractive option against light tanks.
A four man squad of Blasterborn in a Venom is a pretty dope. Of course, now that Scourges can take four special weapons in a squad, they are pretty attractive too, with either Heat Lances, Blasters, or Haywire Blasters.
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2014/11/24 21:28:35
Subject: Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration
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Wyches and Hellions are on my "leave on the shelf" list. Honestly I think the Archon needs to stay home too. A succubus is just so much better which means the only reason to have an archon is for WWP... and I find that too expensive for my lists.
You also shouldn't give lances to warriors. Doing so means that either the lance is wasted because you moved or the poison is wasted because you are shooting at a tank. Either way, lances just don't mix well with what that unit can do.
For tank hunting use Scourges. A lot of people say to use the haywire ones, I prefer the regular blasters.
For assault, use Reavers. Bladevanes and caltrops were good last edition and great this edition. I've taken to running 3 groups of 6. I'll also use a succubus w/archite glaive and some Incubi support in a dual sc venom The AP2 on the glaive and incubi weapons is really good.
For troop clearing, I use a couple units of 10 warriors w/splinter cannon in a raider w/splinter wracks. I leave the disintegrator on the raider.
Talos is a solid choice and you can take 3 in a single unit. They are very effective at soaking up tremendous amounts of fire, which means that the rest of your army isn't being shot at.
Lately I've been leaving my ravagers behind as well. Scourges are far more points effective... and can deep strike. Which means you should be able to drop in behind anything and kill it.
Point is, the codex radically changed our army and you need to roll with it.
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"Why me?" Gideon begged, falling to his knees.
"Why not?" - Asdrubael Vect |
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2014/11/24 21:53:12
Subject: Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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Totalwar1402 wrote:Currently I have a 2000pts army that consists of a tooled up succubus n Archon, 4 squads of wyches in raiders and four squads of kabalites with lances backed up by two ravagers and a squad of hellions.
However I am really not having any joy with them atm since the current playstyle of my gaming group is to take the bare minimum of troops and go all tanks. The last game I just had one of them even brought a super heavy.
Basically this renders 70% of my army worthless. They literally just wait to get shot whilst my opponents deliberately target all of my anti tank weapons.
So, I am considering just taking an unbound list with 7 ravagers, a wraithknight and a load of scourges with haywire. But if anyone can suggest a better way of dealing with this within the force org chart it'd be good to hear. People at my club are still iffy about unbound, although TBH I don't see how you can have super heavies and barely follow the spirit of the force org by going all tank and still complain.
Tanks hate melee. I'm just saying... And Kabalites are cool and all but... Wyches arent, in the new dex. So i might recommend seeing what you can do with TWO kabalite units with Splinter Wracks, and NO Wyches. Use those extra points to add more heavy duty melee to the mix.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
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2014/11/25 00:39:41
Subject: Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Executing Exarch
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Saw "Succubus and wyches" and pretty much answered your problem immediately. You are taking weak point sinks.
Wyches use to be good when they could all take haywire because it made them very good at killing tanks. but GW thought the poor dark space elves were too good following their tradition of using player feedback from 2 editions ago.
Dark Eldar are pretty much all anti infantry, so take units that trash tanks like reavers and scourges.
Ravagers and dark lances are so bad its not even funny. To kill a rhino you need all 3 ravagers firing on it. That's 375pts to kill a 35pts rhino. Its idiotic and inefficient to do so, when there is a unit that can do the same for 120pts that you can spam 6 times, and work against any armour value.
Start using points to damage ratios, and stop using dark lances.
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Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
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2014/11/25 00:45:02
Subject: Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ravenous D wrote:Saw "Succubus and wyches" and pretty much answered your problem immediately. You are taking weak point sinks.
Wyches use to be good when they could all take haywire because it made them very good at killing tanks. but GW thought the poor dark space elves were too good following their tradition of using player feedback from 2 editions ago.
Dark Eldar are pretty much all anti infantry, so take units that trash tanks like reavers and scourges.
Ravagers and dark lances are so bad its not even funny. To kill a rhino you need all 3 ravagers firing on it. That's 375pts to kill a 35pts rhino. Its idiotic and inefficient to do so, when there is a unit that can do the same for 120pts that you can spam 6 times, and work against any armour value.
Start using points to damage ratios, and stop using dark lances.
Pretty much this. The only time you really want to use Dark Lances is on Razerwings for some AA.
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YMDC = nightmare |
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2014/11/25 02:16:10
Subject: Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Executing Exarch
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I just ran the numbers for the points to damage. I used marines so here is your results. I assume blast templates hit, large blasts and flame template hit 5 where as small templates hit 3. I'm skipping CC for the most part. Also not including delivery methods. You pretty much double anything that uses ap when cover is involved.
1. Medusae - 10pts per marine kill
2. Razorwing with disintegrators and splinter cannon - 20pts per marine kill.
3. Razorwing bomber with dark scythes and shatterfield missiles - 25pts per marine kill
4. Warriors - 36pts per marine kill
5. Sslyth - 50pts per marine kill (more so in combat if you can pull it off)
6. Venoms - 52pts per marine kill
Vs monsters or 2+ just throw poison at it til it falls over. This is where venoms and warriors shine and where dark lances actually start being semi useful. 27 dark lances/ 96 venom shots vs a riptide with 3++.
Vs tanks is another story
1.Scourges with haywire blasters - 120pts for any 3 hull point vehicle. 240pts for 4 hull points.
2. Scourges with heat lances 120pts for 3 HP AV 10/11. 240pts for 12/13. 360pts for 4 HPs.
3. Haywire Sybarites - 110pts, reason this is 3 is that you need to be really close, but just 2 of them can drop any tank if you throw and charge. 3 of them will be requied for heavier tanks.
Now for the anti tank dregs. Blasters/dark lances
Av 10 - 5 required
Av 11 - 6+ required
Av 12+ - 9 required
4HP av 12+ 12 required
Reavers need a ton of point to do it with heat lances, in combat they can shred anything av 10 or 11 with a mere 189pts, with a good chance of hitting av 12 as well. 13 you'd have to run 315pts with good chances against av 14 with the caltrop clusters.
As for anti flyer, quad gun. Everything else is kinda poo.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/25 02:20:26
Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
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2014/11/25 02:45:37
Subject: Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
UK
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Reavers! I've only got my dark eldar up to 500 points so far but i came up against an all vehicle guard army the other day and they took down a basilisk, a leman russ and a sentinel, all by using cluster caltrops on rear armour.
Scourges are also good.
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"That's how a Luna Wolf fights."
"If you can't keep up, go and join the Death Guard"
"It had often been said that Space Marines knew no fear, but when Angron charged, he ran" |
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2014/11/25 02:51:31
Subject: Having trouble with my dark eldar.
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Executing Exarch
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Taffy17 wrote:Reavers! I've only got my dark eldar up to 500 points so far but i came up against an all vehicle guard army the other day and they took down a basilisk, a leman russ and a sentinel, all by using cluster caltrops on rear armour.
Scourges are also good.
Hammer of wrath hits the armour your attacking btw it only hits back if you come from the rear.
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Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
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