Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Got a bunch of Cron's off my friend and want to get them up to a playable army short of WAAC players, one of the main stipulations here is going to be zero air. Here is what I am thinking of running.

Warrior blob 1
Nemesor Zandrekh
20 x warriors
Harbringer of Eternity - Chronometron
Ghost Ark

Warrior blob 2
20 x warriors
Necron Lord - Rez Orb

Triach Stalker - TL Heavy Gauss Cannon

3 x Wraiths - 1 x whip coil
3 x Wraiths - 1 x whip coil

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge


Only thing I am not 100% on is the Ghost Arc... for those points I could pad out the wraiths quite decently. (two 5 man units may be hard to slow down).

Since no one has posted yet.

This is a fairly solid list. Keep the Ghost Ark, it'll force your opponent to deal with that or the Stalker. Most will probably deal with the Stalker since that will be the quickest way to reduce the effectiveness of your shooting. Could even find the points to get 2 more Crypteks and have them hop in on T1. 2 Lanceteks gives you a fairly decent Light Tank.

Recommendations for this list. Drop the Whip Coils. Not going to do much, if anything on this list. Use the points to at least get a Semp. Weave on the Lord in the 2nd squad. Also recommend a Warscythe, but thats more of a backup. Doubt any dreads will survive all that, but it's happened to me. It's a tactical thing, but sit the Lord in the middle of the unit (and Zhand in the middle of the other), to tank for the unit if your opponent tries to focus one down to prevent RP. Semp Weave goes a long way here.

Look at what you're wanting to do with the Wraiths. You're right and should run them at 5 man strong. So run them as one unit or find points for more. Best place to shave points oddly enough is your Warriors. My personal experience is that even down to 16 man units, they're pretty effective with the Stalker. If you're planning on not being aggressive with them, and using them to deal with threats you can't shoot in time, try switching out for Scarabs to see if you like it, or do 1 unit of Wraiths, and 1 Scarabs.

Perfect setup on the Stalker for this list, and 2 ABs is enough to support/distract as needed.

Strip blob 1 all the way down to 9 and put them in the Ark. With open topped, Zandrekh can still use his powers, they can still shoot out of it, you gain them the mobility if needed and you can start out hugging behind the full blob as long as is practical to protect two units with it at once. Chronometron is honestly kind of a points sink without a clear purpose.

Merge the wraith units, buy a third whip coil and make the whip coilers the back row. Have them take a flank, and approach through terrain to tear through that flank. Leave them just open enough on the approach to draw fire as a distraction without being exposed to the entire army's guns, as they can take a bit of dakka but are most survivable once they get stuck in.

Add a single Spyder with vehicle repair claws to improve your key vehicles survivability and add a counter charging monstrous creature to the worries of anyone trying to exploit the combat vulnerability and rout your warrior blob. Finish with a few scarabs. Spyder adds a free base turn one, then they either distract a bit, tarpit a small shooty squad or eat a troublesome vehicle.

Bit more tactical variation, some misdirection to hopefully split enemy focus, bit more of a visual theme and feel to the army.

Mileage may vary of course, but that's how I'd tweak from there.

changemod wrote:
With open topped, Zandrekh can still use his powers, they can still shoot out of it, you gain them the mobility if needed and you can start out hugging behind the full blob as long as is practical to protect two units with it at once.

Unless I missed an FAQ on this, which is possible, this still cannot be done last time I checked. Pg. 88 only covers shooting from an OT transport. Zahndrekhs powers are not a shooting attack.

Hazal, even if he can, you're better off with your setup, since the Res Orb is better used in larger blocks. Dropping either of the blobs down, reduces the flexibility of the Stalker as well. Your opponent will have an easier time dealing with the one blob that will get the most out of the Stalker. You'll find MOST Necron Players will avoid them because they are simply over-costed for what they do. I have 2 of them, and LOVE them, but rarely field them in most games. It's more than a Dread, we only get 1 gun, and not even the joy of CCWs to ignore armor. For Foot Slogging Crons, they see some use, especially with the Warrior heavy setup you have here. If you find you're frustrated with this list, that's probably the first thing you should look at. However, I'd play a several games with them if you're going to run with this setup, as it'll give you invaluable experience on using them.

changemod wrote:
Merge the wraith units, buy a third whip coil and make the whip coilers the back row. Have them take a flank, and approach through terrain to tear through that flank. Leave them just open enough on the approach to draw fire as a distraction without being exposed to the entire army's guns, as they can take a bit of dakka but are most survivable once they get stuck in.

Again, this is a matter of preference. Whip Coils are a inefficient use of points unless you're going to run a DLord with the unit. They don't do much, if anything on the turn you charge. If your opponent is in cover, then you're paying a fair amount of points to strike at the same time as 3 models in base contact, if you make that many, and they survive HoW. Get a feel for Wraiths first, then play around with Coils later if you can't find a better use for the points.

changemod wrote:
Add a single Spyder with vehicle repair claws to improve your key vehicles survivability. Finish with a few scarabs. Spyder adds a free base turn one, then they either distract a bit, tarpit a small shooty squad or eat a troublesome vehicle.

Spyder is a helpful addition but only if you're going to run with Scarabs. The ability to repair Hull Points is great, but it doesn't restore Quantum Shielding, and with that gone, you might be lucky to have a vehicle left. Tarpit / Distract with them which is the same role that Wraiths fill, and it's really a matter of preference. With the amount of Gauss backed up by both the Stalker and Zahndrekh, you're not going to find very many vehicles a problem. If you find that you're needing to use the Scarabs to take down vehicles, then chances are you're not doing well at that point in the game anyways.

changemod wrote:
...and add a counter charging monstrous creature to the worries of anyone trying to exploit the combat vulnerability and rout your warrior blob.

What combat vulnerability?

I agree with most of what Akar is saying you definitely want larger squads. Me personally I would drop the ghost ark and fill points with something else like a squad of deathmarks even if they are on there own they are quick and can kill a unit quickly.

I do believe that whip coils are worth there points though. they are a must for upgrades so that you have the chance to swing first. They do need merging though.

Love Triarch Stalker and Anihillation Barge set up that definitely doesn't need changing.

 Akar wrote:
What combat vulnerability?

The fact that if you group your warriors into a twenty man blob, someone will inevitably charge and run down that twenty man blob on a fairly regular basis.

Spyders work best if you commit fully to a Canoptek list of course. Three twin linked s6 blasts followed by three S6 hammer of wraths plus 9 S6 AP2 attacks make a mockery of backfield terminator deep strikes and the like. But still, You're not fully utilising Spyders unless you have them for three purposes. Combat, Scarabs and Shooting? 3 uses. Combat, Scarabs and Vehicle Repair? 3. Even Gloom-prisming a unit is a third use on the very rare occasions that would actually help.

Anyhow, main use of Whip Coils is defensive. If you're fighting small elite combat units like assault terminators or Greater Daemons it can make a huge difference, and if you're running footslogging 'crons those are the first things that need to die.

My friend uses whip coils against me and it kills me to go second because there is never anything left to fight back. But like you said, he has a D-Lord.
I think if half of them have coils you can spread them out in a fight enough to make them pretty effective.

changemod wrote:

 Akar wrote:
What combat vulnerability?

The fact that if you group your warriors into a twenty man blob, someone will inevitably charge and run down that twenty man blob on a fairly regular basis.

Again, you're basing this on what? Not debating that removing a unit completely is the best way to prevent any RP rolls. This is a basic anti-Necron tactic, that everyone knows or will find out soon after a game or two. You seem to be under the impression that Necrons suck in CC, which is a huge myth.

yukondal wrote:
My friend uses whip coils against me and it kills me to go second because there is never anything left to fight back. But like you said, he has a D-Lord.
I think if half of them have coils you can spread them out in a fight enough to make them pretty effective.

Really just curious to know the situation here. Wraiths are vulnerable to small arms fire, where their 3i is treated just like a normal save, they can only make so many. Your tag shows you play marines, so I don't see how this would give you too much trouble.

 Akar wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Akar wrote:
What combat vulnerability?

The fact that if you group your warriors into a twenty man blob, someone will inevitably charge and run down that twenty man blob on a fairly regular basis.

Again, you're basing this on what? Not debating that removing a unit completely is the best way to prevent any RP rolls. This is a basic anti-Necron tactic, that everyone knows or will find out soon after a game or two. You seem to be under the impression that Necrons suck in CC, which is a huge myth.

As a 'Cron player who plays a non-mechanised agressive, as assault oriented style as possible style backed by massed gunlines... No, no it is not a myth. At all.

Is assaulting Warriors with cultists a good idea? No. They're still largely Marine equivalent. Similarly they can take on anything else a Tactical Squad would consider a one sided battle just fine.

But I2 on Marine Equivalents with no ATSKNF is a death sentence against normal marines of equal numbers, let alone anything approacting an actual assault unit. Take wounds first. Lose more 4+ saves than a 3+ unit would (And not get your FNP equivalent until you've already lost your leadership test, so...). Get less attacks in return. Lose morale. Flee. Get caught. Die.

I'm actually less scared of Assault Terminators purely because I know they won't catch and obliterate me.

...And that's why nowadays I split my units into managable 10s and don't bother running Orbs in most units. Just think of Reanimation as Shooting Phase FNP, anything else is a bonus.

yukondal wrote:
My friend uses whip coils against me and it kills me to go second because there is never anything left to fight back. But like you said, he has a D-Lord.
I think if half of them have coils you can spread them out in a fight enough to make them pretty effective.

Really just curious to know the situation here. Wraiths are vulnerable to small arms fire, where their 3i is treated just like a normal save, they can only make so many. Your tag shows you play marines, so I don't see how this would give you too much trouble.

It's not remotely hard to minimise Wraith casualties on a board with decent terrain and Wraithflight. The real mastery of them comes from exposing them to just enough fire to bait it away from other units.

changemod wrote:
But I2 on Marine Equivalents with no ATSKNF is a death sentence against normal marines of equal numbers, let alone anything approacting an actual assault unit. Take wounds first. Lose more 4+ saves than a 3+ unit would (And not get your FNP equivalent until you've already lost your leadership test, so...). Get less attacks in return. Lose morale. Flee. Get caught. Die.

This is where our experience differs. I understand the logic, but you're missing out on the damage that you deal back. I don't know what kind of units you're getting hit with to do this on a regular basis. Even at losing combat by 2 we're still pretty good to hang around. With Warrior blobs at 16+ when they get charged, I've won a fair amount of combats.

We're not Tau. You can't just throw a unit at a blob of Warriors and expect them to cave. Especially if that unit has taken some shooting before reaching the Warriors. If a full unit of Marines for example, makes it to the Necron line without taking a single casualty, then the that unit should expect to be routed. This is no different to any other unit getting assaulted in any codex. It's a myth that somehow Necrons are somehow worse at it than the other units. Yes, I've had my games where 4 Blood Angel Scouts have swept 12 Warriors after killing 1. I've also had games where it took 2 units of Gaunts, a Tyrant and a 3 Carnifex to break 1 blob of 20 after 2 rounds of combat to even break the one unit.

Not challenging your experience, just your support of the Myth.

changemod wrote:
It's not remotely hard to minimise Wraith casualties on a board with decent terrain and Wraithflight. The real mastery of them comes from exposing them to just enough fire to bait it away from other units.

I'll still maintain that it's easier for your opponent to 'master' dealing with them than being sneaky with them.

To the OP:
I went and dug out my 1.5k list (since I'm playing my Orks mostly right now).

Overlord Scythe/Weave/Orb/Phaeron/MSS
Overlord Scythe/Weave/Orb/Phaeron

20 Warriors
20 Warriors
10 Immortals(G) - Nightscythe

5 Wraiths

Annihilation Barge
Annihilation Barge

1490 pts.

Yes, I have 2 Phaerons on there, and no I don't recommend it. I love them and they're not for everyone. Just left it there for comparison, because you'll see that I'm spending the same if not a little more than you are on HQ, and still have the 2 solid blocks of Warriors. I'd have zero issue switching out the Nightscythe and MSS for a Ghost Ark, or some Warriors to get a Stalker. Trying to get both on would cost me the Immortals, and at 1.5k you really should have 3 OS units. While it's true that the Ghost Ark is OS, it has to stay with Warriors, where as the Immortals are pretty good at operating on their own.

Grounded Immortals should also probably switch to Tesla, but you're not really looking at them so don't worry too much about that. Especially since you have Zahndrekh.

The list you post seems solid Akar but changemod is right the warriors aren't combat worthy I mean all it takes is for a 9 man sternguard squad and vulkan hestan to drop down turn 1 and flamer a squad to death (courtesy of my brother it happens everygame). after that they just mop up what is left. this is what i run just as a 1500 point fun List

Hq

Overlord - 225
Phaeron
Warscythe
Semp
MSS
Res Orb
Phase Shifter

Lord - 105
Warscythe
MSS
Phase Shifter

Cryptek - 60
Abyssal staff
veil of darkness

10 warriors - 130

10 warriors - 130

nightscythe - 100

triarch stalker - 165
TL Heavy Gauss Cannon

Deathmarks - 95

3 Wraiths 135
3 whipcoils

Annhilation Barge - 95

Doomsday Ark - 175

3 Tomb Blades - 75
3 shadowlooms

total - 1490

That squad kills just about anything, in fact we're still doing better because 1/2 of them will stand back up.

I'm not arguing that there are units that will hurt, but that those units kill everything. The Myth is the 'Well, my Warriors are in CC now, they're dead.' I'm not suggesting that you throw them into combat, that's not their strength by any means. That's like suggesting that a player run an assault based devastator list.

Just dont be afraid to have them there. I've seen newer Necron players struggle with this as they will move units to avoid CC because they think the unit is going to die the moment the enemy gets close with his pointy stick. Most of my lists run anywhere from 45-60 Warriors, and while I do miss the days when they were 3+, I find warriors easier to use because I can get more in for the same points. I'm not afraid of them being in combat. Yes they don't win, and they usually do get swept. But it doesn't happen till T5 or T6 when I just don't care.

I really don't mind the myth when playing against my opponent, it screws him up more than me when he sends his 10 Assault marines at my blobs then can't figure out why those that survive the shooting just didn't wipe the unit like he thought. I when offering advice to new players though it gets tiresome seeing 'avoid CC at all costs' or 'why would want that in there since you don't want them in combat'.

CC is unavoidable in most games, but Necrons sit right in that nice groove where they have a huge impact on HOW those Combats are played out. The game mechanic of softening up a unit as you get in range to wipe them out in assault, is unpredictable because it's hard to figure out which ones are going to stay dead.

It's something that Necron players should have figured out by now, and that newer players should be aware of. It's especially relevant here because the OP wants to run larger blocks instead of multiple smaller units. Both would work here but he's trying to optimize his Res Orb use as well.

He's going to be in an attrition war, not with models, but with units. He's only got 7-8 units depending on what he decides to do with his Wraiths. This makes it easy for him to focus fire. If he learns to even this out over the course of the game, he'll be just fine by the time combat comes around.