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Looking for some summoning help with an 1850 list, featuring 2 Helbrute Murderpacks, if you please. I regularly run one Murderpack with Be'Lakor and Oblits, and it rocks. However, I can't adequately squeeze this support in with TWO Murderpacks, so am looking towards Summoning as another route. With that in mind, will 700 points generate enough summoning power to make it worthwhile?

My attempt:
---------------
****CAD****

[HQ - 410]
Sorcerer
--Warlord, ML3, Spell Familiar, Palanquin, SoC, Malefic Daemonology
Sorcerer
--ML3, Spell Familiar, Palanquin, SoC, Malefic Daemonology

[TROOPS - 100]
Cultists
Cultists

****Allied Detachment****

[HQ - 145]
Herald of Nurgle
--ML2, Palanquin, Lesser Reward, Malefic Daemonology

[TROOPS - 45]
Nurglings

****FORMATION:HELBRUTE MURDERPACK - 615 ****
Champion Power Scourge, TL LC
2 TL LC, 3 Reapers, 2 ML


****FORMATION:HELBRUTE MURDERPACK - 535 ****
Champion - Reaper
2 Reapers, 2 PC

TOTAL: 1850
8 WC
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I figure that I need roughly 10 WC per turn in order to summon 1-2 units, and this configuration nets me 11, on average. The Murderpacks make for very resilient bodyguards, and they put off enough shots to down big threats (and few units can handle a phalanx of str 10 powerfists at I4 in melee), so I definitely want to run them. However, would all-daemons (together with the 2 Murderpacks) be a better route?

I don't have a ton of experience with summoning armies but I know deamons can have access to more warp charge points than CSM probably. Spell familiars are great and I believe the crimson slaughter supplement has some good after acts for sorcerers in general.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You may way to take a look those as options although with trying to run 2 murder packs may limit the summoning you are able to do.

7 dice has the best success to perils outcomes for WC 3 powers so you're looking at one summon realistically. The spell familiars will help, but you're guaranteed to perils if you're chunking 7 dice, and nearly for 5 or 6.

I don't think summoning is going to be the best strategy for this list. 1 summon a turn from your backfield really isn't going to do much for you.

I do like the idea of going all daemons. You could get a big squad of hounds + Herald in there for a fast assault threat. The only problem I see there is that the hounds will outpace any Helbrutes you start on the board, so will pretty much be the sole target of all enemy shooting turn 1.

Another option would be to go for two ML3 Tzeentch Heralds on discs with screamers and 2 squads of pink horrors. That alone nets you 10 WC and makes for a solid summoning unit. The summons are much less negligible when you've got two dudes on jetbikes popping out units where they're in a position to do something the turn after they arrive.

I could also see the murder packs meshing well with some choices from IA:13. I'm not overly familiar with the book, but I do know it works well for lots of super cheap bodies and has some pretty good looking and cheap artillery options.

I definitely like the idea of two murder packs though. Is that 10 Helbrutes?

Epartalis wrote:
Spell familiars are great and I believe the crimson slaughter supplement has some good after acts for sorcerers in general.

Thnks; the Prophet of the Voices relic seems like a nice way to reduce perils, but I don't think that I can wing the points for the obligatory Possessed bodyguard unit.

 astro_nomicon wrote:
7 dice has the best success to perils outcomes for WC 3 powers so you're looking at one summon realistically. The spell familiars will help, but you're guaranteed to perils if you're chunking 7 dice, and nearly for 5 or 6.

I don't think summoning is going to be the best strategy for this list. 1 summon a turn from your backfield really isn't going to do much for you.

I do like the idea of going all daemons. You could get a big squad of hounds + Herald in there for a fast assault threat. The only problem I see there is that the hounds will outpace any Helbrutes you start on the board, so will pretty much be the sole target of all enemy shooting turn 1.

Another option would be to go for two ML3 Tzeentch Heralds on discs with screamers and 2 squads of pink horrors. That alone nets you 10 WC and makes for a solid summoning unit. The summons are much less negligible when you've got two dudes on jetbikes popping out units where they're in a position to do something the turn after they arrive.

I could also see the murder packs meshing well with some choices from IA:13. I'm not overly familiar with the book, but I do know it works well for lots of super cheap bodies and has some pretty good looking and cheap artillery options.

I definitely like the idea of two murder packs though. Is that 10 Helbrutes?

It is indeed: two squadrons of 5 brutes. As a vehicle squadron, they can't be killed easily for KP (Drop pod suicide melta usually pops one, although they generally only get one shot off), whereas the Mayhem Pack generally gets zapped soon after coming in. The Tzeentch force sounds intriguing, thanks; I will have to test that out, as it appears to fit, points-wise. I will also have to dig around IA:13 and look for some hidden gems.

Sans summoning, I suppose that a Nurgle DP with balesword (or just leave in Be'Lakor), along with some Blight Drones, could add some mobile threats while still providing bite and a Nurgle theme...More durable than the Tzeenchians, but not sure if it would be a better fit.

Yeah the mini screamer star is really useful and I run it in a lot of my lists (almost all of them actually ha). You can throw the grimoire on it too for dat 2++ rerollable cheese. It also has the merit of being quite speedy (12" move + 24" turboboost) and being decent in assault which none of your previous summoning units really were. I usually roll on Malefic until I get Cursed Earth and then switch over to Divination or Telepathy if I have any rolls left.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yeah It really wouldn't be too hard to fit in Be'lakor. I hope you make an appropriate troll face every time you invis a whole squadron of those. That is some lulz.