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Heya, I'm having some interest in warmahordes for the game side of things (not the biggest fan of steampunk but its not a dealbreaker) and i was wondering if i could get some questions answered. I have the mk2 prime and cygnar books so i have a basic idea of how the game plays. I'd probably aim at 15 points before i even worry about expanding. I'm probably prefer less ranged firepower as a whole (given most games i've played seem to weaken/punish ranged weapons as far as balance goes), but am open to it if its viable.

1 - what faction does the best/most jacks list? I'm interested in the 'big' guys with a bit of troop support.

2 - what are the big differences between focus and rage? Focus i largely understand, but rage is about using casters to remove rage thats generated by the monsters going apes*** in battle?

3 - which one is more 'fun' to do (focus or rage), given that i'm primarily interested in the 'big' guys? To put this in perspective, i used to love the imperator titan in epic:titan legions for the 'game within a game' micromanagement.

4 - is ehaley entirely broken or is it a certain army combo that makes her that way? Just from reading the cygnar book, she and nemo seemed the most interesting/fun to me because of their spells, but i've read she can be considered the 'tear out page 5' version of page 5.

5 - is it always better to go with the theme lists? Looking at at certain characters, i'm not entirely happy with their themes (like i'd prefer different troops to varying degrees for the characters listed).

6 - What happens when an army like cygnar is composed of pure elecitrical damage units (hypothetical situation) and you run into another player who is likewise electrically immune? Its just that if i started up wm/h, i probably wouldn't be looking to expand my collection at a "games workshop"-level to have builds but don't want to hamstring myself with initial model selection. The stormguard look cool, but what immediately sprang to my mind was: what if i run into an identical army and we end up being unable to damage each other?

Thank you in advance.

1) Convergence of Cyriss and Protectorate do the most warjacks. Convergence by a wide margin. They can do upwards of 7-8 jacks in the right list. Protectorate is more normal, they can do 3-5 depending on the list.

2) Fury works like this. A warbeast in its controllers control area can be forced to charge, run, buy/boost attacks, use its animus, or do some other ability which requires forcing. When a beast is forced, a Fury token(or multiple if the ability makes more than one) is placed on the beast. A beast can only have a number of Fury on it up to its FURY stat. In the Control phase, a warlock may remove fury from its warbeasts up to the Warlock's FURY stat(when a beast dies you can also take the fury from it immediately, but you must take as much as you can if this happens. This is called reaving) If a beast still has fury on it after the warlock has done this, the beast must take a Threshold check. Which is 2D6+# of fury on it. If the roll equals or is under the beast's threshold, nothing further happens and the fury remains on the beast. If the roll is greater, the beast Frenzies. When a beast frenzies, it immediately activates and,

It charges the nearest model in its LoS(friend or foe). If its already in melee, it will attack a random model in its melee range

The attack and damage roll are boosted and made with its highest p+s melee weapon.

After this occurs, you may remove any amount of fury from the frenzied warbeast. This counts as its activation for the turn.

A warlock uses Fury exactly like a Warcaster uses Focus. Cast spells, boost/buy attacks, etc... except defensively.

Defensively, Fury works differently from Focus. Instead of adding a point of armor, when a warlock takes damage, you can chose to spend 1 fury to transfer the damage to one of the warbeasts in your control area. You roll a column and the warbeast takes all the damage. If the warbeast dies and there is extra damage, it goes back to the warlock(and cannot be transferred to another beast).

If a beast is killed by transferred damage, the warlock cannot reave the fury that was on the beast. You also cannot transfer damage to a beast which has fury on it equal to its FURY stat.

3) Well generally Hordes factions have more big things than Warmachine factions simply because the Fury mechanic supports, and actually requires, more beasts. Focus is a limited resource. Fury is risk management.

4) She isn't broken in the sense that she is over powered. She is just very strong. The principal problem is she is very very "not fun" to play against. pHaley is actually probably more "broken".

5) No. Theme lists represent "historical" forces that a warcaster was using at a point in the story. Some are good, lots are horribly bad. They aren't intended to be balanced and viable. Only a few are tournament worthy. Some are the only way to play that warcaster.

6) Even in a Cygnar lightning spam army, a lot of your attacks won't actually be Electrical. You'll notice not a single model's melee weapon is Lightning type. Only the electroleap and their guns are electrical. Sure, all the guns won't hurt each other, but cold steel still cuts rubber bootied flesh.

Hmmm. I have this vague recollection in my head that skorne do the big guys list in hordes, is that correct? I think i need to look at more pictures or get some books to see if any of the models grab me.

1) Cyriss (wacky shenanigans) and Cygnar (all the 'Jack Marshals and journeyman warcasters available plus Nemo) in Warmachine, Circle (Kaya, stones, Fury-efficiency tricks) and Legion (Shepherds, Forsaken) in Hordes. In any case it depends on your warcaster, some like more 'jacks/'beasts, some like more infantry.

2) Focus is more limited but more reliable. You don't have to keep your forces together to use the focus on your warjacks and your warcaster remains effective when you're out of warjacks; since warbeasts can usually run more fury than you can feasibly generate focus warbeasts tend to rely on volume instead of one-time punch. Focus forces you to plan your turn ahead of time and you can get screwed by the dice, fury allows you to adapt and improvise but leaves your plan vulnerable to being futzed with.

3) Even split, they play differently but I'd be hard-pressed to call one side more fun than the other.

4) EHaley is powerful, difficult to use, and frustrating to face, and she's probably the most powerful warcaster in Cygnar; that said she really isn't any more frustrating than any of a dozen warcasters. I'd recommend against starting with her simply because she's difficult, unforgiving, and people will assume you're bringing her because you know how to play her and react accordingly, not because she's powerful.

5) Theme lists are almost never a good idea. The only one I know of that's particularly good off the top of my head is PXerxis', though PAbby has some strange shenanigans with hers.

6) There isn't enough electrical damage/electrical immunity for this to matter, not to mention units with electrical attacks pretty much always have other options. Two units of Stormblades smacking into each other won't do the shooting attacks or the electro leap attacks but will still tear each other up with normal melee attacks.

It sounds from the questions like you're interested in Cygnar; if that's the case I suggest paying attention to the Gun Mages. They're a very representative unit; if you like Gun Mages, you will like Cygnar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Torga_DW wrote:
Hmmm. I have this vague recollection in my head that skorne do the big guys list in hordes, is that correct? I think i need to look at more pictures or get some books to see if any of the models grab me.

Skorne is one of my primary factions; a warbeast-heavy Skorne army is a very hit-or-miss affair that has to get some slow heavies upfield and win big on the charge turn or go home. It's not a great way to start playing; Legion and Circle both do warbeast-oriented armies better and with a broader selection of possible approaches.

 AnomanderRake wrote:


5) Theme lists are almost never a good idea. The only one I know of that's particularly good off the top of my head is PXerxis', though PAbby has some strange shenanigans with hers.

There are a few other than those that are pretty much universally taken when you're playing that Warcaster/Warlock, Runes of War with Doomshaper1 is probably the most frequently seen theme list. A lot of the ones that have shown up in NQ in particular are actually very decent and make a strong case for taking them.