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So first off, I apologize for this being my first post. I've lurked at Dakka Dakka for years, but I wanted to warn the community about this service since a lot of us take advantage of commission painters to get our armies ready for the table top.

I found them through a service called JMD Scenery (who is absolutely wonderful). Back in July, I paid them a large deposit ($800+) to paint a Warzone Resurrection army (Capitol) for me. Communicatgion was absolutely great - the director of the company, James, would often respond in hours no matter when I sent a message. He came up with a reasonable quote and I agreed to have all the mini's painted to their Gold level (which is the highest they do) and the bases at their Bronze level (so fairly basic). They would start work in mid-August. The service requires a 50% deposit up front on the painting and the full cost of the miniatures.

James requested the deposit be made as a gift via Paypal, but I didn't feel comfortable with this and paid as normal. During this time, my wife was involved in a horrible accident and had a broken femur and shattered knee cap, so in all fairness, I was a little remiss in keeping up with the project. August rolled around and he sent me a picture of a test model, which I was happy with, so all seemed good. I kept checking their instagram and in Oct they had painted the first squad of my models, a group of Martian Banshees. You can see them here:

http://instagram.com/p/uvtz3sAJlK/?modal=true

I'll let you judge the quality of the models (These are painted to their gold standard, the highest they have).

So, I thought they were working, just slowly. I'm not in any rush, and I've got a lot going on with my wife, so it's no problem. They also e-mail me and say things are crazy with the holidays and they had to move locations, so there would be a delay. I'm a reasonable person, so it was no problem. But then more and more time goes by and the communication dies and there's no more updates. They're uploading tons of pics of other projects, but never mine.

I e-mail them. No response after about 4 days. E-mail them again. No response. E-mail them again. No response. Message them on facebook (https://www.facebook.com/siegestudios) - no response. E-mail their affiliaites (JMD Scenery). The wonderful owner there says he'll call James and e-mails me back about an hour later saying he spoke to James and that James promised to contact me ASAP. No contact follows. E-mail them yet again. No response.

At this point, I'm pretty sure they've just taken my money and ran. I'm not going to give up, but I wanted to warn the community about these guys. They're super friendly and responsive when asking for a quote, but it appears once they have your deposit, good luck in getting your project done and returned to you.

I'll update this thread if I end up hearing anything back from them, but for now, I would say stay away. They certainly *seem* like they're delivering projects based on the photos they post daily, but it's probably a crapshoot as to whether they'll ever complete yours if they get a large enough deposit.

And this is why commission reviews are helpful.
We need more like this.

Thanks for sharing!

The "gift" payment request should have been a tip off. See if paypal won't reverse the charge.

Optimates wrote:

James requested the deposit be made as a gift via Paypal,

... would have been enough warning sign for me to walk away. File with paypal right away.

To be honest I take payment either as gift, or direct bank transfer in preference. Otherwise my clients have to pay a surcharge to cover fees. This make my quoting process easier (no proportional overheads). This said, I'm also aware that some clients prefer protected transactions so they're not a deal breaker.

winterdyne wrote:
To be honest I take payment either as gift, or direct bank transfer in preference. Otherwise my clients have to pay a surcharge to cover fees. This make my quoting process easier (no proportional overheads). This said, I'm also aware that some clients prefer protected transactions so they're not a deal breaker.

Yeah... this is kind of a red flag for me, especially if the person pushes for the payment as a gift, but I've had several commission artists request payment this way to avoid the fees, and they all came through for me. Seeing as how quick the guy was to respond to me and how professional he seemed, I decided to go ahead. In hindsight, sadly, wasn't the right decision and it's way past the time I can dispute it with Paypal directly. Have to see about going through the bank.

Bummer, how much was the deposit? I normally charge 10-20% up front, remainder on completion. Is there a payment or project plan in place? Looks from Facebook that they're still active- might be something has gone tits up if hey have multiple artists.

Edit: just read it was 50%. Not beyond reasonable. How long has contact been ignored? That's probably the key issue.

I always charge 10-40-50 on commission work.

10% up front after a seat of the pants estimate. That gets my attention to do a proper estimate and work out the particulars with what the customer might want. The 10% is considered a non-refundable design fee (customer also gets to keep whatever sketches, plans or color charts I provide during this period).

After that, 40% of whatever the final number (to bring the total paid to 50%...depending on the design portion...might be a bit more, might be a bit less). This gets me actually working on it. Covers a bit of my labor, materials and whatever else might be out of pocket expenses.

50% upon completion before delivery. If it will be a shipped package, I only ship to locations that allow for signed delivery confirmations and I require a photo of any damage or defects within 7 days of delivery (all spelled out within the contract).

Pretty much the same terms I use for any custom work I do, whether it is technology related, industrial issues, custom miniatures, woodworking... They work, protect my time, protect the customers interests and also tend to be comparable to other custom fields as well.

With regards to this particular company - I couldn't say if it were a scam or otherwise. Many companies carry a large backlog (mine is well past a year now...). I normally don't collect the 40% fee until I am ready to start work on your bits though, and from that point - it is usually a few weeks time to completion. I have spoken to several others who have comparable schedules too.

winterdyne wrote:
Bummer, how much was the deposit? I normally charge 10-20% up front, remainder on completion. Is there a payment or project plan in place? Looks from Facebook that they're still active- might be something has gone tits up if hey have multiple artists.

Edit: just read it was 50%. Not beyond reasonable. How long has contact been ignored? That's probably the key issue.

It's been 21 days without a response now. The funny thing is I sent in a request for pricing under a different e-mail, and they responded to that with exhaustive detail (Seriously, it was about a page and a half long), so they're looking at and replying to their e-mails. Part of it really is my fault - I didn't reach out to them until like January 4th (around there) - between my wife's injuries and having a newborn, things were crazy. But you think they could at least provide a reply, even if its, "Hey, sorry, your project fell through the cracks cause an artist left and we had to push it back." They've been active on their Instagram and Facebook, and they reply to requests for quotes, so its not a case of being overwhelmed with e-mails.

To address some of the issues Shawn raised - the project was scheduled to begin in August (They collected the deposit before any work began). By the end of October, they had painted 6 out of about 35 miniatures. Since that time, nothing. No contact, no work updates, nothing. So at this point, it's feeling like a scam. Not sure why they decided to rip me off, as it does seem like they're working on projects (although a lot of the pics they post are from their personal armies or collections). I have a feeling its something silly, like they lost my models when they were moving their studio or something. :p Nonetheless, I wanted to share my experience with the community, as you're taking a risk if you hire these guys.

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for a deposit up front, but after this experience, I don't think I could bring myself to use a commission artist that requires it - its too big a leap of faith, which is a shame, cause I know many good artists out there do require it.

I hope your miss'us came out all right in the end!

Hey first time poster here.
Siege Studios sounded vaguely familiar so after wracking my brain I remember where I had heard of them before.....
On Twitter they would run a contest once every few weeks where they would advertise such extravagant prizes as a complete set of GW paints, Airbrushes etc for following them and posting in your timeline for others to follow them.
Well after a few of these contests people started to call them out on never announcing the winners of their contests and their flimsy excuse was "the people who won requested anonymity because they don't want people harassing them"
When a bunch of people called bull sh_t on this they then said something to the effect of "Well now we're not going to run anymore of our great contests because people have ruined it for the rest of you"

Pure snakeoil salesmen and I'm sorry that they have your money dude.

Hmm, that does sound pretty bad.

I really do hate places that make it difficult for the rest of us. :(

It might be nice to have a single reviews thread for stuff like this. I dunno. I don't have the time to maintain it myself.

Beta wrote:I hope your miss'us came out all right in the end!

Thank you. Not to go to off-topic, but she's recovered greatly since the accident. She'll probably walk with a limp for the rest of her life (and can't bend the leg past a 90 degree angle), but at least she can walk. Appreciate the well wishes

Hanso wrote:Hey first time poster here.
Siege Studios sounded vaguely familiar so after wracking my brain I remember where I had heard of them before.....
On Twitter they would run a contest once every few weeks where they would advertise such extravagant prizes as a complete set of GW paints, Airbrushes etc for following them and posting in your timeline for others to follow them.
Well after a few of these contests people started to call them out on never announcing the winners of their contests and their flimsy excuse was "the people who won requested anonymity because they don't want people harassing them"
When a bunch of people called bull sh_t on this they then said something to the effect of "Well now we're not going to run anymore of our great contests because people have ruined it for the rest of you"

Pure snakeoil salesmen and I'm sorry that they have your money dude.

Wow. Just wow. I remember checking on the status of my project (going to twitter, instagram, their facebook) and always seeing them posting those contests, and then they just stopped. So that's why, huh? Definitely not reassuring, but it doesn't surprise me at all given their behavior up to this point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, wanted to provide a quick update.

James, the director of Siege Studios reached out to me today and apologized for the delay. I won't get into the specifics of the why (Not sure if he wants me to mention it here or if it was said in confidence, but let's say it sounds like a long string of unfortunate events), but he's offered me the following resolution:

1. Siege studios will complete the project at no additional charge.

2. Siege Studios will provide a 25% discount on a future commission.

Given that happens, I feel that's a pretty generous way to make amends. I'll keep the thread updated and post photos of any work done as we go.

Hi guys,

It's James from Siege, firstly I would like to re-affirm the above that I have replied to Carl with and that I have personally dealt with this issue. I have replied to Carl regarding his commission and as he has stated we are going to complete the commission with out taking the final payment and have offered a 25% discount if he wishes to use us again, which I hope the actions of a rogue artist will not taint our service which is built and based on excellent customer service and building relationships with our clients.

As a business we are not in the place of wanting to get a bad reputation, we operate with the best intentions and business practices in mind. I saw a few twitter comments and I want to set in stone that we have sent out prizes for all previous competitions in the past. We are also currently working on a Knight for the last winner that won late in December 2014.

I/we have nothing to hide, nor do I/we wish to give people the wrong impression. The artist dealing with Carls commission went AWOL with the commission and did not keep in contact with myself, the studio via email or any other communications. I put into place a strict contact system for all our clients and the use of our social media to update clients on their projects. These procedures were not followed but the artist in question and as a result the issues stated have arisen.

I have personally taken on board the project and will be completing it around my own workload and the management of the business to make sure Carl is satisfied and treated as he originally should be.

I can only offer the discount and the further percentage off and that I will personally deal with Carl and his commission to make sure that it is completed to the standard paid for and expected.

Finally, as for the comments on deposits. A 50% upfront deposit covers the cost of models should we supply these for our clients and or if the client goes AWOL on us mid or at the end of a project. It is a deposit that would only be put down by clients that are 100% sure about their project and not time wasters.

In all my time as a commission painter before I started Siege, I have worked for lesser deposits and have had mixed experiences with time wasters and clients vanishing off the face of the planet and me left being left with a project to sell on ebay to try and recoup losses in both materials and time. Our 50% deposits are in place to eliminate time wasters and only clients that are 100% sure on their projects.

I hope that I have cleared this up, again I can only offer my deepest apologies for the actions of an Artist that will no longer be associated or work for my business. Moving forward we are there to offer a second to none, professional service and we have many satisfied customers that have off of their own backs given positive testimonials for us.

We would not get the opportunities to work with excellent companies and media providers from providing bad service. Unfortunately, bad things do happen, and in this instance I would rather hold my hand up and be honest and transparent and say, Yes, an artist caused an issue. The point is how it is dealt with and how the client who has been left in a bad place is dealt with and treated.

I would like to personally thank Carl for his understanding and for allowing us to redeem ourselves after the actions of one individual gave him and others a negative opinion of Siege and what we stand for and represent in the industry.

Thank you for your time guys, I hope this clears things up and that you will allow me to personally sort this issue out for Carl and for the reputation of my business.

Many thanks

James Otero

Director
Siege Studios Limited

www.siegestudios.co.uk
www.facebook.com/siegestudios

*Grabs Popcorn

Glad to see a response

and i hope your wife is ok/gets better and such and such.

 Desubot wrote:
*Grabs Popcorn

Glad to see a response

and i hope your wife is ok/gets better and such and such.

Thanks a lot buddy, we are not in the habit of letting our clients down, unfortunately a single person's actions can tarnish all what many others have worked hard to build.

Thank you for you understanding my friend.

James

Having been in a similar situation to that, that's why I don't subcontract out any more. Sucks to have to reschedule or restart jobs that have been fubar'd because of internal issues.

This said, it's also difficult to take ownership of a problem and admit that something is out of control- this can lead to communication issues. Even when you're running a business it's sometime easier to hope a situation resolves itself so you can give good news than to respond in a more timely fashion with bad news.

winterdyne wrote:
Having been in a similar situation to that, that's why I don't subcontract out any more. Sucks to have to reschedule or restart jobs that have been fubar'd because of internal issues.

This said, it's also difficult to take ownership of a problem and admit that something is out of control- this can lead to communication issues. Even when you're running a business it's sometime easier to hope a situation resolves itself so you can give good news than to respond in a more timely fashion with bad news.

Agreed totally my friend, I had no communications which was the same problem as what Carl was having.

I have no issue admitting an issue or holding my hand up to a problem.

All our artists are now contractually bound so this is not an issue any more, shame that one individual has to tarnish all what I and the team are working towards creating.

I hope that by the way we fix this problem for Carl that we clear our name which to date, this issue aside has always been good I can proudly say.

Thank you once again for understanding buddy.

Kindest regards

James

 SiegestudiosUk wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
*Grabs Popcorn

Glad to see a response

and i hope your wife is ok/gets better and such and such.

... unfortunately a single person's actions can tarnish all what many others have worked hard to build.

I agree with the letter of your words, however we probably mean them contextually different.

Gonna be watching this thread ; and just like the BTP fiasco with Tenebre, if this doesn't end well for OP, i'll be singing it from the rooftops on every gaming site, blog, twitter-feed, and local shop i waltz into. Which is a lot.

At the very least, a response is a good first step.


Also as a business trying to build a reputation, immediately cease asking your clients to send payment as a gift. It's not a gift. It's a payment for service. You're putting your customers at risk, and it's definitely moderately shady, borderline deceptive. If this were me and the company i was doing business with requested payment as a gift, my spider sense would have red-lined, and i would have walked away right then and there.


My mechanic doesn't ask me to pay as a gift. My contractors that work on my house don't. The paperboy doesn't. None of my vendors at my work do that i purchase tons of material from day to day. It's shady. You might be turning business away. Fees are fees ; people with enough money to get comission paint jobs will know and understand that and probably not give a hoot.

Question...
Why didn't you inform your client on what was happening? As it looks like you played dead until the issue became public..?

Not trying to be venomous here, but this is, imo, the core that can make or break the case.

Thanks everyone for your support and comments. I had a feeling it was something strange like an artist running off with the models, like I said before. Putting aside some other issues, for what its worth, I do appreciate James coming here and saying what he's said (it takes some courage to do so). I think the tendency of many people in the same situation (As we've seen on some other threads, won't mention names :p) would be to blame everyone else, take no responsibility, and offer some half-baked resolution. In this case, I think James' offer is very generous and I'm looking forward to seeing the work he comes up with.

I'll make sure to keep the thread updated and post photos of the work as its done so the community can see.

It could be good to have a solitary evaluations twine for that. We dunno. I don't have the time to maintain this myself.

Optimates wrote:


I'll make sure to keep the thread updated and post photos of the work as its done so the community can see.

Please do. This community will be watching.

I do give James kudos for coming here and publically acknowledging what happened. Good on him. I think his offer is also fair, which is also good on Siege as a company and he as a Director of it (owner / CEO?).

Hopefully this is the isolated incident that it's explained to have been.


EDIT 3: Some fixes, as i got a little hoighty toighty, but i missed a major point.

 Thairne wrote:
Question...
Why didn't you inform your client on what was happening? As it looks like you played dead until the issue became public..?

Not trying to be venomous here, but this is, imo, the core that can make or break the case.

Hi there,

I do appreciate your comments and you are entitled to your opinons but please for the sake of your own embarasment please base them on FACTS not assumptions.

Firstly we at Siege were left in the same darkness as Carl as we had no contact from the artist at all what so ever, via call, text and email.

I had personally exhausted all means of contact with the artist in question.

It was only after the written threat of legal action that movement happened and contact was made by the artist.

Now I should not have to go into so much detail or justify and clarify to anyone other than our client the full details but I am as I/we have nothing to hide what so ever.

Please out of respect and common courtesy, watch the thread and keep updated, but any slanderous accusations, comments or statements based on non factual opinions, will be reported.

I have done all I can to make this situation that was caused by someone else's incompetence and lies.

I would appreciate it if people did not jump on any band wagons being driven by people seeking to make situations worse.

I have done all to make this right and this is for the record the first and only instance of a negative epsiode in Siege history since its inception.

Once again, I appreciate people caring and taking a stand against mal practice BUT, Siege is not ignoring the issue, I am not ignoring the issue and it is being dealt with to the best of our ability.

Thank you all for the comments and I will have this sorted for Carl and for the sake of keeping the excellent reputation that Siege has always wanted to maintain.

Many thanks

James
Director

Siege Studios Limited
www.siegestudios.co.uk


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Haight wrote:

 SiegestudiosUk wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
*Grabs Popcorn

Glad to see a response

and i hope your wife is ok/gets better and such and such.

... unfortunately a single person's actions can tarnish all what many others have worked hard to build.

I agree with the letter of your words, however we probably mean them contextually different.

Gonna be watching this thread ; and just like the BTP fiasco with Tenebre, if this doesn't end well for OP, i'll be singing it from the rooftops on every gaming site, blog, twitter-feed, and local shop i waltz into. Which is a lot.

At the very least, a response is a good first step.


Also as a business trying to build a reputation, immediately cease asking your clients to send payment as a gift. It's not a gift. It's a payment for service. You're putting your customers at risk, and it's definitely moderately shady, borderline deceptive. If this were me and the company i was doing business with requested payment as a gift, my spider sense would have red-lined, and i would have walked away right then and there.


My mechanic doesn't ask me to pay as a gift. My contractors that work on my house don't. The paperboy doesn't. None of my vendors at my work do that i purchase tons of material from day to day. It's shady. You might be turning business away. Fees are fees ; people with enough money to get comission paint jobs will know and understand that and probably not give a hoot.

Haight,

I appreciate your comments and opinions, but please bas them on FACTs now your assumptions, all deposits paid to Siege are not ever sent as a gift.

Where exactly did you get this information from I would like to know.

The whole reason we take PayPal is because it gives our clients peace of mind of secure and safe payment. Since starting Siege has NEVER ever taken a PayPal gift payment as a deposit.

Let me make that clear for all and so that it is on record here.

Please do follow this thread and the fact that we will be completing Carls commission to spec and with not taking the completion payment and as I have offered a further 25% discount off a future project if Carl wishes.

Again, as stated in my previous comments, we are doing all we can to sort out another persons mistakes that have effected and reflected badly on my business.

If for any reason I see you or any other member slandering my business based upon assumptions or hear say, I will take the matter further to Admins and as far as need be.

If I had not contacted Carl after I realised there was an issue, left it after seeing his emails, this thread and from not hearing back from the artist then I would not be able to defend things, BUT I have come on here with no fear or worry as we are not a bad business, money stealer's or in business to delude and betray people.

Carl has already stated that I always replied to his email in a timely manner and done all I can to make him confident of Siege and my dedication to his commission, with that said, I respectfully advise and ask that in future you know your FACTS before making wild accusations based on no FACTUAL knowledge of the situation, terms or communications.

Kindest regards

James
Director

Siege Studios Limited
www.siegestudios.co.uk

EDIT: LOL, he ninja edited his post to take out the remarks about how i should be embarrassed, Love it.


Your quote is broken.

M'kay. I am basing them on facts, and i'm not embarrassed. You, as a business owner, should be.

So in the OP, Optimates says "james requested deposit be made via paypal marked as gift ... [but he didn't do so as he wasn't comfortable".


You're James right ? The director right ? So okay. You asked for payment to be done by gift, which he rightfully decline. Point out exactly where i'm wrong here.

My subs ? My subs don't do work i don't authorize. Wanna know why ? they don't get paid for work i don't authorize. My subs don't ask my customer (the building owner) for cash. Two reasons: one, they will get fired and get no more work from me. Two, i will sue them for breach of contract. You state in a post that you now have "legal contracts" with all your artists. Wonderful. This should have been done first, not later. Your subs represent you, and if they do so badly, it's on you for not choosing better subs. Simple.


So. You couldn't get in touch with the artist. Every think about, ay know, after SEVERAL MONTHS CONTACTING THE CLIENT THAT YOU SUBBED OUT THE WORK TO THE SUBCONTRACTOR FOR !? That EVER cross your mind ? After five months ?

Really, i mean several months after no contact from this guy and you don't even drop a damn line to the client and say "hey, i have had no contact with the artist, but i am working on it, here's the steps i'm taking". Nope. Right, but i should be embarrassed for calling a spade a spade ? Sure. Whatever guy.


Question for you, since you feel all open and honest, and i'm so embarrassed about what i'm not misrepresenting.... who was he sending emails to ? Artist ? You ? Staff member ? Care to share ? All of the above, none of the above ?


So i'm going to engage in some ACTUAL supposition, rather than what you're labeling as supposition.

I'm thinking that when the other Business owner OP contacted finally contacted you, you had an "oh gak" moment. And that's when you finally put wheels in motion to contact artist, and then contacted client and are now sorting things out. If that's the case and it took you 5 months to do that, shame on you.


I have news for you dude : going on the attack and pulling straw men when people are asking legit questions over a fethed up situation shows that 1) you have no knowledge of how this community rallied over BTP fething over Tenebre, and 2) it tells us A LOT about what we can expect from Siege. I was veering back towards giving you the benefit of the doubt, but now you remind me exactly of Shaun at BTP.


Siege Studios Limited and www.siegestudios.co.uk a miniatures painting service... everyone put this in your posts so we can get google searches to turn up this thread. Do right by Carl, and hey no worries. Don't ? And we'll do our best to make sure other people don't have to go through this.


EDIT: also... he has never said that his emails were responded to quickly until after he contacted the other business owner, which is why i ask if he was emailing you directly or the artist, both, or none. He actuallys the EXACT opposite : that he got NO response at all until he contacted the other business owner. So who he contacted and who was cc'd and etc, that's a big question mark. Because if you were copied, then you definitely are in the wrong here. If you were in the dark, then fine, though again, why you'd let your subs just willy nilly ride off into the good night is beyond me...

Anywho... i just hope Carl gets his minis and painted to the quality he paid for.


EDIT 3: It is increasingly clear to me that you didn't even read Optimates original post. You may want to do that before you continue telling me I don't have my facts straight, should be embarrassed, and tough guy threaten me with admin response. Because i'm taking ALL my info from his posts.

 Haight wrote:
Your quote is broken.

M'kay. I am basing them on facts, and i'm not embarrassed. You, as a business owner, should be.

So in the OP, Optimates says "james requested deposit be made via paypal marked as gift ... [but he didn't do so as he wasn't comfortable".


You're James right ? The director right ? So okay. You asked for payment to be done by gift, which he rightfully decline. Point out exactly where i'm wrong here.

My subs ? My subs don't do work i don't authorize. Wanna know why ? they don't get paid for work i don't authorize. My subs don't ask my customer (the building owner) for cash. Two reasons: one, they will get fired and get no more work from me. Two, i will sue them for breach of contract. You state in a post that you now have "legal contracts" with all your artists. Wonderful. This should have been done first, not later. Your subs represent you, and if they do so badly, it's on you for not choosing better subs. Simple.


So. You couldn't get in touch with the artist. Every think about, ay know, after SEVERAL MONTHS CONTACTING THE CLIENT THAT YOU SUBBED OUT THE WORK TO THE SUBCONTRACTOR FOR !? That EVER cross your mind ? After five months ?

Really, i mean several months after no contact from this guy and you don't even drop a damn line to the client and say "hey, i have had no contact with the artist, but i am working on it, here's the steps i'm taking". Nope. Right, but i should be embarrassed for calling a spade a spade ? Sure. Whatever guy.


Question for you, since you feel all open and honest, and i'm so embarrassed about what i'm not misrepresenting.... who was he sending emails to ? Artist ? You ? Staff member ? Care to share ? All of the above, none of the above ?


So i'm going to engage in some ACTUAL supposition, rather than what you're labeling as supposition.

I'm thinking that when the other Business owner OP contacted finally contacted you, you had an "oh gak" moment. And that's when you finally put wheels in motion to contact artist, and then contacted client and are now sorting things out. If that's the case and it took you 5 months to do that, shame on you.


I have news for you dude : going on the attack and pulling straw men when people are asking legit questions over a fethed up situation shows that 1) you have no knowledge of how this community rallied over BTP fething over Tenebre, and 2) it tells us A LOT about what we can expect from Siege. I was veering back towards giving you the benefit of the doubt, but now you remind me exactly of Shaun at BTP.


Siege Studios Limited and www.siegestudios.co.uk a miniatures painting service... everyone put this in your posts so we can get google searches to turn up this thread. Do right by Carl, and hey no worries. Don't ? And we'll do our best to make sure other people don't have to go through this.

Haight,

I think you will find that we send paypal invoices which are not sent as gifts buddy,

I even have the invoice up in front of my now, and its a standard invoice not a gift.

Again to save your own embarrassment, please get your facts straight.

Again, you are making yourself to look ridiculous.

The issue is has sorted 100%, the client is more than happy. There is no need to cause any escalation but you seem to need to insist on acting child like.

Im not going bite or react to your unfactualy accusations, Carl is happy and again the issue is sorted.

Your post has been escalated to an admin and I've also messaged the administrators.

Absolutely no need for the tone or troll like reply or for your ranting over absolutely nothing that has anything what so ever to do with you in all honesty.

Thanks again

Kindest regards

James
Director

Siege Studios Limited
www.siegestudios.co.uk

 SiegestudiosUk wrote:

 Thairne wrote:
Question...
Why didn't you inform your client on what was happening? As it looks like you played dead until the issue became public..?

Not trying to be venomous here, but this is, imo, the core that can make or break the case.

Hi there,

I do appreciate your comments and you are entitled to your opinons but please for the sake of your own embarasment please base them on FACTS not assumptions.

Firstly we at Siege were left in the same darkness as Carl as we had no contact from the artist at all what so ever, via call, text and email.

I had personally exhausted all means of contact with the artist in question.

It was only after the written threat of legal action that movement happened and contact was made by the artist.

Now I should not have to go into so much detail or justify and clarify to anyone other than our client the full details but I am as I/we have nothing to hide what so ever.

Please out of respect and common courtesy, watch the thread and keep updated, but any slanderous accusations, comments or statements based on non factual opinions, will be reported.

I have done all I can to make this situation that was caused by someone else's incompetence and lies.

I would appreciate it if people did not jump on any band wagons being driven by people seeking to make situations worse.

I have done all to make this right and this is for the record the first and only instance of a negative epsiode in Siege history since its inception.

Once again, I appreciate people caring and taking a stand against mal practice BUT, Siege is not ignoring the issue, I am not ignoring the issue and it is being dealt with to the best of our ability.

Thank you all for the comments and I will have this sorted for Carl and for the sake of keeping the excellent reputation that Siege has always wanted to maintain.

Many thanks

James
Director

Siege Studios Limited
www.siegestudios.co.uk

Quoting this response because Haight hit it out of the park. There are so many red flags here...

Also, the obsession with "time wasting" clients in the initial response was another oddity. How do you define time wasters? Because, I gotta be honest, my impression is that "time wasters" may be a bit broader of a category for you than it is for most people. I find it very disconcerting that potential clients are referred to so disrespectfully, even if business doesn't result from it.

ETA - Interim response to Haight... wow.

 Haight wrote:
Your quote is broken.

M'kay. I am basing them on facts, and i'm not embarrassed. You, as a business owner, should be.

So in the OP, Optimates says "james requested deposit be made via paypal marked as gift ... [but he didn't do so as he wasn't comfortable".


You're James right ? The director right ? So okay. You asked for payment to be done by gift, which he rightfully decline. Point out exactly where i'm wrong here.

My subs ? My subs don't do work i don't authorize. Wanna know why ? they don't get paid for work i don't authorize. My subs don't ask my customer (the building owner) for cash. Two reasons: one, they will get fired and get no more work from me. Two, i will sue them for breach of contract. You state in a post that you now have "legal contracts" with all your artists. Wonderful. This should have been done first, not later. Your subs represent you, and if they do so badly, it's on you for not choosing better subs. Simple.


So. You couldn't get in touch with the artist. Every think about, ay know, after SEVERAL MONTHS CONTACTING THE CLIENT THAT YOU SUBBED OUT THE WORK TO THE SUBCONTRACTOR FOR !? That EVER cross your mind ? After five months ?

Really, i mean several months after no contact from this guy and you don't even drop a damn line to the client and say "hey, i have had no contact with the artist, but i am working on it, here's the steps i'm taking". Nope. Right, but i should be embarrassed for calling a spade a spade ? Sure. Whatever guy.


Question for you, since you feel all open and honest, and i'm so embarrassed about what i'm not misrepresenting.... who was he sending emails to ? Artist ? You ? Staff member ? Care to share ? All of the above, none of the above ?


So i'm going to engage in some ACTUAL supposition, rather than what you're labeling as supposition.

I'm thinking that when the other Business owner OP contacted finally contacted you, you had an "oh gak" moment. And that's when you finally put wheels in motion to contact artist, and then contacted client and are now sorting things out. If that's the case and it took you 5 months to do that, shame on you.


I have news for you dude : going on the attack and pulling straw men when people are asking legit questions over a fethed up situation shows that 1) you have no knowledge of how this community rallied over BTP fething over Tenebre, and 2) it tells us A LOT about what we can expect from Siege. I was veering back towards giving you the benefit of the doubt, but now you remind me exactly of Shaun at BTP.


Siege Studios Limited and www.siegestudios.co.uk a miniatures painting service... everyone put this in your posts so we can get google searches to turn up this thread. Do right by Carl, and hey no worries. Don't ? And we'll do our best to make sure other people don't have to go through this.


EDIT: also... he has never said that his emails were responded to quickly until after he contacted the other business owner, which is why i ask if he was emailing you directly or the artist, both, or none. He actuallys the EXACT opposite : that he got NO response at all until he contacted the other business owner. So who he contacted and who was cc'd and etc, that's a big question mark. Because if you were copied, then you definitely are in the wrong here. If you were in the dark, then fine, though again, why you'd let your subs just willy nilly ride off into the good night is beyond me...

Anywho... i just hope Carl gets his minis and painted to the quality he paid for.


EDIT 3: It is increasingly clear to me that you didn't even read Optimates original post. You may want to do that before you continue telling me I don't have my facts straight, should be embarrassed, and tough guy threaten me with admin response. Because i'm taking ALL my info from his posts.

Hi again,

Just to clarify, a paypal gift does not cost the person receiving the payment any funds nor does it cost anything to the sender.

As I have said and been honest about, we invoice all our clients and when you invoice someone you the sender or creator of the invoice are charged for the invoice.

I hope Carl does not mind but I have print screened and covered his personal information but you can clearly see the £18.23 charge we paid for receiving the payment of the invoice NOT a gift.

I rest my case, Haight, please wise up my friend and again for the third time, get your facts straight other wise you will continue looking, acting and sounding like a complete idiot.

I am 100% honest and for those who use paypal frequently and know how paypal works they will know that this is proof that not only am I honest and have integrity.

Thanks again Haight buddy,

Kindest regards

James
Director

Siege Studios
www.siegestudios.co.uk

So please answer me this. Very nice receipt btw.


Why would the OP, in his first post, say that you asked him to pay the deposit by gift ?

Cuz ya know, when you pay by gift, makes it VERY hard to recoup from paypal if there's a dispute, right. In fact, i'm pretty sure it's a big no-no to claim something is a gift when it's not ?

And if this is not true, why woudl carl (again, in his first post.... i can quote it for you, seeing as you almost assuredly haven't read it...) claim that you requested this, but he declined because it felt off ?


Your little jpeg there doesn't actually address any of that.



You are patently ignoring the fact that the client is claiming that you asked him to do this, but HE, not YOU, but HE declined because it felt off.



I will insert a jpeg of a caramel here, as it is equally arbitrary and prooves just as much as your receipt.

 Haight wrote:
So please answer me this. Very nice receipt btw.


Why would the OP, in his first post, say that you asked him to pay the deposit by gift ?

Cuz ya know, when you pay by gift, makes it VERY hard to recoup from paypal if there's a dispute, right. In fact, i'm pretty sure it's a big no-no to claim something is a gift when it's not ?

And if this is not true, why woudl carl (again, in his first post.... i can quote it for you, seeing as you almost assuredly haven't read it...) claim that you requested this, but he declined because it felt off ?


Your little jpeg there doesn't actually address any of that.



You are patently ignoring the fact that the client is claiming that you asked him to do this, but HE, not YOU, but HE declined because it felt off.



I will insert a jpeg of a caramel here, as it is equally arbitrary and proves just as much as your receipt.

Have you considered that maybe just maybe Carl made a mistake saying he paid as a gift, nothing against Carl at all in my comment but people do make mistakes, and my proof that the paymnt was paid by invoice and NOT as a gift as you seem adamant on even though you have a section of text that was typed that maybe, just maybe was miss typed.

Please do not lecture me on how PayPal works, I do know how it works buddy, hence why we don't ask for payments as gifts in a business transaction, it would invalidate the security of the payment and the whole process.

The receipt, shows, proves and verify that the payment was NEVER a gift as you are claiming.

Again your argument it beyond invalid and my "nice little receipt" as you put it, completely proves that your simply slandering and trying to "troll" for an arguments sake.

I have zero to hide and my honesty is all I need to prove how foolish you are making yourself look.

Thanks any way for a very entertaining evening, im glad that at least one of us is being honest.

Kindest regards

James
Siege Studios Limited

www.siegestudios.co.uk