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Seriously, do you guys really like all of the supposed leaks for the new Necron book? At first they were okay, but honestly, the more pieces get added to the puzzle, the more I'm thinking of packing up 40k for good.

Seems a little early for the ragequit until the codex is released.

Happens every release. You don't have all the details out yet, and haven't had a chance to view everything as a whole.

That being said I was upset when Tau were coming out because the IA was going to make spammed Riptides a huge deal when combined with Interceptor and the army would be very marker dependent and look how things turned out.

You may be right, but there may be enough in there that you can work with it.

 buddha wrote:
Seems a little early for the ragequit until the codex is released.

I'm aware, but seeing a Q&A and seeing how "supposedly" the units are changing, is rather disheartening.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Happens every release. You don't have all the details out yet, and haven't had a chance to view everything as a whole.

That being said I was upset when Tau were coming out because the IA was going to make spammed Riptides a huge deal when combined with Interceptor and the army would be very marker dependent and look how things turned out.

You may be right, but there may be enough in there that you can work with it.

I'll still buy the new codex obviously, but I HOPE I find something that makes me stick around.

Like buddha says- read the codex first before throwing your toys out of the pram about things.

Read first decide later

Not saying a lot of your estimates of units are wrong. Again, pre Tau release it was easy to see that Vespid were still bad, things were geared towards gunlines, the fighter/bomber was terribad, and the Riptide was the new autotake.

But I'm sure you can find some fun builds in there. It's not bad to be skeptical or even really cynical as far as I'm concerned. Read it over, if you think you can have fun then give it a shot.

My problem with all of this doom crying with Necrons is that the things getting nerfed were easy to see a mile away and should have been predicted by anyone with any amount of impartiality. MSS needed to be nerfed, sorry it got nerfed into useless but you get to save points on the lord. RP got changed, it has its pluses and minuses now and I will wait to see exactly how it plays before I pass judgement on it. Barges got fixed, did anyone not see this one coming? Tesla no longer works on snap fire, this should not come as a surprise to anyone. If you think that this is doom and gloom because it was necrons only anti-air then I have some news for you, you still have fliers that can act as anti-air and that is better than some armies get STILL.

Everything I am reading about the Necron codex is sounding pretty good to me, I think my C'tan Shard might actually get some play! Flayed Ones are looking pretty sweet. So many things are looking a bit better while the absurd things are getting reigned in.

To me it seems that a lot of Necron players never played Necrons before the 5th codex or never play any other armies, because to me this new codex is looking alright when lined up to most other armies and I am okay with that.

i wouldn't even say to quit even after reading it.

I would say read it, then play it, then decide. Too many people think they can figure out exactly how it will play just by reading the codex. But actually playing it, and getting the feel for the new rules and combinations is a completely different story.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
My problem with all of this doom crying with Necrons is that the things getting nerfed were easy to see a mile away and should have been predicted by anyone with any amount of impartiality. MSS needed to be nerfed, sorry it got nerfed into useless but you get to save points on the lord. RP got changed, it has its pluses and minuses now and I will wait to see exactly how it plays before I pass judgement on it. Barges got fixed, did anyone not see this one coming? Tesla no longer works on snap fire, this should not come as a surprise to anyone. If you think that this is doom and gloom because it was necrons only anti-air then I have some news for you, you still have fliers that can act as anti-air and that is better than some armies get STILL.

Everything I am reading about the Necron codex is sounding pretty good to me, I think my C'tan Shard might actually get some play! Flayed Ones are looking pretty sweet. So many things are looking a bit better while the absurd things are getting reigned in.

To me it seems that a lot of Necron players never played Necrons before the 5th codex or never play any other armies, because to me this new codex is looking alright when lined up to most other armies and I am okay with that.

Barges will never see the light of day, as they both nerfed Tesla AND made it more expensive without giving it anything else. Thus, other HS options are the only way to go. Ctans are still the cost of a Land Raider, move slow, and die to bolt guns. Plus, their powers are random every shooting phase, so they're not even reliable. MSS is useless, and I hate having something that is useless. Destroyers are still useless. Special characters are hardly useful, though they did get cheaper, but meh? Overlords won't kill anything better than Tac marines in CC, and will die a lot easier now. Wraiths got better, but WHY? They didn't need to be better.

Care to elaborate, OP?

While I do agree that the Death Ray becoming a blast weapon (aka useless against flyers and scatters, too) is a terribad thing when compared to the combination of Tesla Destructors losing their Arc special rule, Tesla getting a snapshots = no Tesla nerf and the general points increase for the Necron flyers, I am pretty ok with the Nightscythe going up by 40 points - it was waaaay to underpriced post 6th and upto now.

Necron Overlords getting +1 WS and BS can only be a good thing.

Cryptek got a massive points increase (+40) but he has 1 extra wound now and comes with a built in res orb for the squad he leads (+1 to WBB) . Combine this with a Chronometron and a 20 strong warrior squad he leads suddenly has a 4+ armor save, a 5++ inv. save and a 4+ FNP save, meaning they can take incredible amounts of punishment while steadily advancing forward and flaying any vehicles within range.

Necron Lords also going from 1 to 2 wounds means less people will spam them in courts. I always felt the title "Lord" was too undeserving for a 35pt model.

Lychguard got a massive points slash (by 10) and their shields are 3++ which is doubly sweet; Praetorians got +1 attack so that's good too.

We still have the 2+ armor save artifact as relic and some other cool stuff.

C'tan are even more costly now but most of their powers are pretty insanely good - you have 4/6 useful powers against infantry and something like 3/6 useful ones against vehicles upto AV12 and 2/6 against tougher vehicles, so the chance of you getting the right power should be decent unless you want to go after Land Raiders.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
My problem with all of this doom crying with Necrons is that the things getting nerfed were easy to see a mile away and should have been predicted by anyone with any amount of impartiality. MSS needed to be nerfed, sorry it got nerfed into useless but you get to save points on the lord. RP got changed, it has its pluses and minuses now and I will wait to see exactly how it plays before I pass judgement on it. Barges got fixed, did anyone not see this one coming? Tesla no longer works on snap fire, this should not come as a surprise to anyone. If you think that this is doom and gloom because it was necrons only anti-air then I have some news for you, you still have fliers that can act as anti-air and that is better than some armies get STILL.

Everything I am reading about the Necron codex is sounding pretty good to me, I think my C'tan Shard might actually get some play! Flayed Ones are looking pretty sweet. So many things are looking a bit better while the absurd things are getting reigned in.

To me it seems that a lot of Necron players never played Necrons before the 5th codex or never play any other armies, because to me this new codex is looking alright when lined up to most other armies and I am okay with that.

Indeed. MSS are such an obvious nerf target.

This actually reminds me of Dark Eldar, although of course I'll reserve judgment until after the codex is released. DE were nerfed overall, with obvious units nerfed, and they are harder to play, but excluding Taudar, they feel balanced. Eventually, when the 6th edition codices get rewritten, everything some come out a wash (and for the better).

The doom and gloom is real. Always, always is with new codecies. Everyone is being brought into line with the other books. Crazy powerful stuff for the most part is being neutered. I don't play Crons, but I have been pleasantly surprised with what I've hear has gotten buffed up, and only nodded in agreement with the vast majority of what got nerfed.

A lot of people ripped on the Ork book, but now that it has had proper field testing, I hear 80% less of people complaining and legit loving their codex.

Melevolence wrote:
The doom and gloom is real. Always, always is with new codecies. Everyone is being brought into line with the other books. Crazy powerful stuff for the most part is being neutered. I don't play Crons, but I have been pleasantly surprised with what I've hear has gotten buffed up, and only nodded in agreement with the vast majority of what got nerfed.

A lot of people ripped on the Ork book, but now that it has had proper field testing, I hear 80% less of people complaining and legit loving their codex.

I hear 80% less complaining because everyone I know who played orks quit the game >.>

 krodarklorr wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
My problem with all of this doom crying with Necrons is that the things getting nerfed were easy to see a mile away and should have been predicted by anyone with any amount of impartiality. MSS needed to be nerfed, sorry it got nerfed into useless but you get to save points on the lord. RP got changed, it has its pluses and minuses now and I will wait to see exactly how it plays before I pass judgement on it. Barges got fixed, did anyone not see this one coming? Tesla no longer works on snap fire, this should not come as a surprise to anyone. If you think that this is doom and gloom because it was necrons only anti-air then I have some news for you, you still have fliers that can act as anti-air and that is better than some armies get STILL.

Everything I am reading about the Necron codex is sounding pretty good to me, I think my C'tan Shard might actually get some play! Flayed Ones are looking pretty sweet. So many things are looking a bit better while the absurd things are getting reigned in.

To me it seems that a lot of Necron players never played Necrons before the 5th codex or never play any other armies, because to me this new codex is looking alright when lined up to most other armies and I am okay with that.

Barges will never see the light of day, as they both nerfed Tesla AND made it more expensive without giving it anything else.

In most cases, this was perfectly warranted. Annihilation Barges are still excellent units, they're just not auto-take units anymore. They've got a ton of shots that are twin linked, so even when Jinking they'll still hit something, and when not jinking they remain as capable as they were before. For what they are, you could do a whole lot worse, those things will still see table space.

Thus, other HS options are the only way to go. Ctans are still the cost of a Land Raider, move slow, and die to bolt guns.

If you let 72 boltguns get in range and they've got nothing better to shoot at maybe.

Plus, their powers are random every shooting phase, so they're not even reliable.

That's a fair point, but they're also far from the only unit with that issue.

MSS is useless, and I hate having something that is useless.

Every codex has some of these. That said, it was obscenely overpowered before.

Destroyers are still useless.

They got an extra wound and the ability to hop behind terrain like Crisis suits if the rumors are correct, and remain the same price, these things are great...

Overlords won't kill anything better than Tac marines in CC

Overlords are still going to be solid, they're just not going to be one-man wrecking crews able to match blades and survivability with the greatest of CC characters anymore, but they'll be correspondingly cheaper as well.

Wraiths got better, but WHY? They didn't need to be better.

*THAT* is a good question...

You sound like you're in the wrong game anyway. 40k as a soley competitive game is laughable. If all your meta refuse to play anything that isn't the best then of course it's gonna get boring.

Embrace the game as intended, plus with some tournaments for fun, or go play sport or a mid-school video game, the new ones are often broken.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
The doom and gloom is real. Always, always is with new codecies. Everyone is being brought into line with the other books. Crazy powerful stuff for the most part is being neutered. I don't play Crons, but I have been pleasantly surprised with what I've hear has gotten buffed up, and only nodded in agreement with the vast majority of what got nerfed.

A lot of people ripped on the Ork book, but now that it has had proper field testing, I hear 80% less of people complaining and legit loving their codex.

I hear 80% less complaining because everyone I know who played orks quit the game >.>

Sucks for your area. I can't fathom how people still think the old codex is better. There were some things that were better and I miss, but on a whole, this book is lightyears better.

with any luck 'crons will now simply be a balanced codex

I think if anyone was able to stomach Ward's 5th edition codex with its incredibly silly fluff and hit-and-miss crunch, they shouldn't have a problem with the new one.

The new crons are looking pretty good to me.

Melevolence wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
The doom and gloom is real. Always, always is with new codecies. Everyone is being brought into line with the other books. Crazy powerful stuff for the most part is being neutered. I don't play Crons, but I have been pleasantly surprised with what I've hear has gotten buffed up, and only nodded in agreement with the vast majority of what got nerfed.

A lot of people ripped on the Ork book, but now that it has had proper field testing, I hear 80% less of people complaining and legit loving their codex.

I hear 80% less complaining because everyone I know who played orks quit the game >.>

Sucks for your area. I can't fathom how people still think the old codex is better. There were some things that were better and I miss, but on a whole, this book is lightyears better.

I hated the whole Lootas moving to heavy support, Heavy support in the Orks codex is way to congested right now, But other than that, it is superior to the 4th ed Orkl Dex in every way,


Regarding Necrons., wait and see until it's released.

I think it's sounding fairly good so far...

Have people really not learned to wait and see yet? I remember before the Tau and Eldar Codexes, all the doom and gloom. People didn't think much of the Wraithknight or Riptide, I remember that much.

BrianDavion wrote:
with any luck 'crons will now simply be a balanced codex

They were so close...until they make Wraiths even better

 Overlord Thraka wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
The doom and gloom is real. Always, always is with new codecies. Everyone is being brought into line with the other books. Crazy powerful stuff for the most part is being neutered. I don't play Crons, but I have been pleasantly surprised with what I've hear has gotten buffed up, and only nodded in agreement with the vast majority of what got nerfed.

A lot of people ripped on the Ork book, but now that it has had proper field testing, I hear 80% less of people complaining and legit loving their codex.

I hear 80% less complaining because everyone I know who played orks quit the game >.>

Sucks for your area. I can't fathom how people still think the old codex is better. There were some things that were better and I miss, but on a whole, this book is lightyears better.

I hated the whole Lootas moving to heavy support, Heavy support in the Orks codex is way to congested right now, But other than that, it is superior to the 4th ed Orkl Dex in every way,


Regarding Necrons., wait and see until it's released.

I will agree, the Loota swap was hard. But, to be honest, that role fits them far better than Elites. I feel like Lootas now sort of fulfill a good role in lower point games. I rarely took them ANYWAY in bigger games, even when they were elites, because they often DIED before actually earning their value. They made good distraction units, but I didn't WANT them to be distraction units...they just had targets on their heads because they are LOOTAS :p So, their new Force Org slot is more fitting, but they see a lot less play in bigger games because Mek Gunz do their job better in higher point games.


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 Vaktathi wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
with any luck 'crons will now simply be a balanced codex

They were so close...until they make Wraiths even better

But will Wraiths alone make the Dex over the top? Especially a close combat unit? I get they were good anyway, but, in an edition that is still CC negligent?

The majority of data we've seen regarding the codex are buffs. Yes, MSS got nerfed. Yes, Anni Barges got nerfed. Yes, C'tans are pretty much ass unless it turns out that they can use their powers twice (which seems unlikely due to the no-shooting a weapon twice clause). Yes, flyers got nerfed.

Buuuut, almost everything else got a buff. Wraiths are fething insane, for instance. You got to keep all your SC's. And while Anni Barges got nerfed, they only went from "super undercosted and stupid" to "what they should have been", which is pretty fair.

Dunno. Maybe my outlook is skewed because I don't play Necrons. But to me it feels like you guys are making out pretty good.

Melevolence wrote:
But will Wraiths alone make the Dex over the top? Especially a close combat unit? I get they were good anyway, but, in an edition that is still CC negligent?

Wraithwing has been one of the Necron's strongest builds all through the 5th and 6th edition. A 12'' moving, terrain ignoring T5 2W 3++ strength 6 initiative 5 rending monster at 40ppm will always be excellent.

CC is hardly negligent in this edition, only largely mechanized MEQ CC (which many equate to being CC in general). Wraiths have been a staple in many top tournament Necron armies for quite some time.

40pts for Fearless T5 W2 3++ A3 S6 Rending "beast" models, are certainly going to win lots of games for people.

I understand they are good, but the question still stands: Will one unit make the new dex, in the eyes of the majority, 'unbalanced'. Yes, they will win games. All books tend to have a unit that does that. Wraiths might be the new 'cheese', but, I dunno if it will make the dex helplessly unbalanced.

Some folks need to get over themselves

Melevolence wrote:
Will one unit make the new dex, in the eyes of the majority, 'unbalanced'.

Riptides

 Savageconvoy wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
Will one unit make the new dex, in the eyes of the majority, 'unbalanced'.

Riptides

Surely Wave Serpents are the best example.