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2015/02/12 01:07:59
Subject: Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
I saw this on the FW site and thought dakka would appreciate.
A new/updated Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks is being released by FW this month. It's going to be a fresh compendium of IA: 5, 6, & 7. Plus, there looks to be some cool additions based on the Table of Contents:
As a DKK player, I'm interested to see what the Death Rider squadron and Gorgon assault squadron Battle-forged detachments are? My curosity is buzzing!
2015/02/12 01:24:17
Subject: Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/12 03:09:16
The Kool-Aid Man is NOT cool! He's a public menace, DESTROYING walls and buildings so he can pour his sugary juice out for people!"- Linkara on the Kool-Aid Man
htj wrote:I break my conscripts down into squads of ten, then equip them with heavy weapons and special weapons. I pay 1pt to upgrade their WS, BS and Ld, then combine them into larger squads when deployed. I've found them to be quite effective.
2015/02/12 06:20:56
Subject: Re:Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
Hrm, on the one hand, I'm happy they're updating this stuff.
On the other, I've already got 4 Vraks books. IA5 (4th edition), IA5 (updated), IA6, and IA7.
Getting one condensed book in theory is nice...but again, already have 4 hardcover Vraks books.
Very conflicted about this, I would have like a PDF update for the army lists.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2015/02/12 08:19:33
Subject: Re:Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
I picked up my copy on the weekender as I'm a massive fan of the Vraks V1 books and have a sizable renegade army that I built of the back of running the campaign. I've stuck my review in the FW thread in the News forum. I can't speak on the DKK side as I don't know those lists very well but as a renegade player I found the new book disappointing, its missing the campaign so I have to keep the old books around and it is a lazy cut and paste of the IA13 list with the Vraks v2 list losing options dropping from four gods to two gods and not really gaining a lot in return. The two custom detachments are the best thing in the book but are hardly worth the price of admission.
2015/02/12 09:44:33
Subject: Re:Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
As a big DKoK fan I am curious about the changes to the new list, orders and warlord traits. I like playing the current PDF list a lot btw.
The thing which made me jump with curiosity however, is the Death Rider detachment. Being a big fan of Death riders (I got 30 of the guys) I am looking forward to using them as their own detachment in an upcomming Apoc game.
I've some doubts about this new book however, doesn't look like there are many changes from the unit entry. And Looky's review doesn't bode well either.
I'm curious to know what the new DKK battle-forged detachments are. Can someone provide a general idea what the composition/rules are for these two detachments? Even better would be a review of the whole DKK list!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 00:58:59
2015/02/13 00:23:34
Subject: Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
Hopefully one day they digitally release their Imperial Armor books so getting one outside of Europe is not ridiculously expensive on top of the books all being Textbook priced already.
2015/02/13 01:23:54
Subject: Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
SRSFACE wrote: Hopefully one day they digitally release their Imperial Armor books so getting one outside of Europe is not ridiculously expensive on top of the books all being Textbook priced already.
Even in the UK is ridiculously expensive, IA 11 for example is like £60-£70 with shipping for a freaking 5th edition book full of units that have been more recently updated in other IA books. While I know that's no where near as expensive as to America it's still a hefty load.
For example I could get a fairly decent Corsair army 1k-2k points for around £160-£200 but then it would cost me around £130 just for the books to field it not counting the main rulebook or the Eldar Codex which Forgeworld emails suggest to use for the updated weapons points/profiles.
So it's still rather ridiculous here.
Back on-topic Siege of Vraks looks to be very interesting and decently priced and I hope this is a trend of us getting updated versions of older IA stuff more regularly.
I wonder how they've handled orders.
Edit: Also I wonder if they'll do an updated version of the Badab War books considering all of the FAQs that they have.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 01:26:54
2015/02/13 02:08:49
Subject: Re:Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
Crabbit wrote: An updated IA:12 would be nice too or atleast a faq/errata to fix all the disparities between the book and 7th AM codex.
Yeah, IA12 and IA1:2E both desperately need updates, both being based on the 5E IG codex.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2015/02/13 05:21:30
Subject: Re:Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
Crabbit wrote: An updated IA:12 would be nice too or atleast a faq/errata to fix all the disparities between the book and 7th AM codex.
Yeah, IA12 and IA1:2E both desperately need updates, both being based on the 5E IG codex.
As updating both IA1:2e and IA12 for re-release could take awhile, seems like FW could remedy a quick fix by releasing a FAQ stipulating that all codex-identical units found in these IA references should use the point-costs, stats, weapon profiles, and rules presented in Codex:AM. Would that be a sufficient bandage?
2015/02/13 05:22:34
Subject: Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
SRSFACE wrote: Hopefully one day they digitally release their Imperial Armor books so getting one outside of Europe is not ridiculously expensive on top of the books all being Textbook priced already.
Even in the UK is ridiculously expensive, IA 11 for example is like £60-£70 with shipping for a freaking 5th edition book full of units that have been more recently updated in other IA books. While I know that's no where near as expensive as to America it's still a hefty load.
For example I could get a fairly decent Corsair army 1k-2k points for around £160-£200 but then it would cost me around £130 just for the books to field it not counting the main rulebook or the Eldar Codex which Forgeworld emails suggest to use for the updated weapons points/profiles.
So it's still rather ridiculous here.
That's what I mean. The prices of the books are textbook high already. Shipping them to outside the UK is just putting it that much more out of reach of US customers.
2015/02/13 05:44:19
Subject: Re:Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
Crabbit wrote: An updated IA:12 would be nice too or atleast a faq/errata to fix all the disparities between the book and 7th AM codex.
Yeah, IA12 and IA1:2E both desperately need updates, both being based on the 5E IG codex.
As updating both IA1:2e and IA12 for re-release could take awhile, seems like FW could remedy a quick fix by releasing a FAQ stipulating that all codex-identical units found in these IA references should use the point-costs, stats, weapon profiles, and rules presented in Codex:AM. Would that be a sufficient bandage?
It would, and I've emailed them about it, but unfortunately they don't seem to be in any hurry. They updated the stuff in 5E rather quickly with PDF's, but unfortunately methinks they've got the same directive the rest of GW has, which is that PDF updates will only be done to stuff to ensure minimum required functionality (i.e. including hull points), and anything else will have to wait for existing stock to sell out and an updated product made ready for sale.
Same reason we've got two different rules for Chimeras right now (one in the INQ book and one in the IG book)
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2015/02/13 05:53:54
Subject: Re:Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
FW digital releases would be nice on the wallet and environment, but they would have to be done right. The current GW epub codices are atrocious to look at and difficult to navigate quickly. IMO, A better format would be something more like an digital magazine. Maybe something similar to what issuu does. Here is an example:
Digital books are not going to happen in the foreseeable future. FW have explicitly stated that they believe that part of what makes their product appealing is having a nice hardcover book and they have no interest in making a digital version.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/02/13 09:06:13
Subject: Re:Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
I can't see them going digital in the next few years, GW won't or can't spend the money needed to put in the skilled team needed for digital publishing. There is no reason an epub or mobi need look bad other than lack of time or skill.
IA8 is nearly sold out and they have IA9/IA10 discounted so I would expect version 2 of IA8 soon and IA9/10 around Christmas. I'm not holding my breath that they will be anything other than a lazy update to the rules. IA1/2 added a ton of new rules in for new models, we simply haven't had much new stuff for these books and I'm not expecting it. I will keep my fingers crossed that we see the big battle fortress again for IA8.
2015/02/13 10:45:49
Subject: Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
Personnally, I don't intend on buying Vraks until my other two fairly recent IG Imperial Armour books are updated via PDF.
I really like what Forgeworld offers, and the quality of their models and rules, but I'm not going to, as a customer, encourage GW-like behaviour. The have to make sure that I can be confident with my purchase having some longevity beyond a few months for me to consider paying their prices and shipping.
I bough IA1 2nd Edition without hesitation (I do love me some armour) and once I decided to go Death Korps, I grabbed IA12 and was very happy with the product, but I am not going to chase $100 books if they're going to be rendered obsolete rapidly (owing to GW admittedly more than FW) and then forgotten about in favour of new $100 book releases.
FW's business choices as of late have been making me nervous; the switch to "conversion kits" for HH which are missing like three components, making 5 man marine squads ~$100, no PDF updates which would be quite simple in most cases (IA1 literally requires "use Codex:IG points values for x y z, IA12 requires that and a few other points tweaks/order updates), I'm just not liking what I'm seeing.
Therefore, I conclude, Valve should announce Half Life 2: Episode 3.
2015/02/14 01:44:43
Subject: Re:Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
Crabbit wrote: An updated IA:12 would be nice too or atleast a faq/errata to fix all the disparities between the book and 7th AM codex.
Yeah, IA12 and IA1:2E both desperately need updates, both being based on the 5E IG codex.
As updating both IA1:2e and IA12 for re-release could take awhile, seems like FW could remedy a quick fix by releasing a FAQ stipulating that all codex-identical units found in these IA references should use the point-costs, stats, weapon profiles, and rules presented in Codex:AM. Would that be a sufficient bandage?
It would, and I've emailed them about it, but unfortunately they don't seem to be in any hurry. They updated the stuff in 5E rather quickly with PDF's, but unfortunately methinks they've got the same directive the rest of GW has, which is that PDF updates will only be done to stuff to ensure minimum required functionality (i.e. including hull points), and anything else will have to wait for existing stock to sell out and an updated product made ready for sale.
Same reason we've got two different rules for Chimeras right now (one in the INQ book and one in the IG book)
I contacted FW too, but to no avail. I am considering doing the work form them for the sake of the community. Basically, I would use the current DKK siege list PDF as a template for all DKK army lists that need to be updated and make the appropriate corrections in Adobe Illustrator. IA1:2ed would take a bit more work. Do you think FW would post it on their site? Would anyone want to help?
Peregrine wrote: Digital books are not going to happen in the foreseeable future. FW have explicitly stated that they believe that part of what makes their product appealing is having a nice hardcover book and they have no interest in making a digital version.
That is disappointing. I like a quality hardcover as much as the next guy, but it seems a bit antiquated to not move towards digital alternatives.
Looky Likey wrote: IA8 is nearly sold out and they have IA9/IA10 discounted so I would expect version 2 of IA8 soon and IA9/10 around Christmas. I'm not holding my breath that they will be anything other than a lazy update to the rules. IA1/2 added a ton of new rules in for new models, we simply haven't had much new stuff for these books and I'm not expecting it. I will keep my fingers crossed that we see the big battle fortress again for IA8.
That would be just our luck, they update/release the appropriate IAs to 7th right before 8th drops.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/14 02:05:42
2015/02/14 21:01:22
Subject: Re:Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
Crabbit wrote: I'm curious to know what the new DKK battle-forged detachments are. Can someone provide a general idea what the composition/rules are for these two detachments? Even better would be a review of the whole DKK list!
I'm not an IG or DKoK player so I don't think I have the knowledge to review the list. The Hades Drill is still a DT, and is now a MC not a vehicle. The list still has traditional HS stuff in the Elites slots (Rapiers, Field Artillery, Hydra platforms. Commissaar-general is a HQ choice. CCS has option for MoO and OotF.
Senior Officer orders: Duty unto Death, Bring it Down, Get Back in the Fight.
Junior Officer orders: Dig In, First Rank Fire Second Rank Fire, Clear the Trenches.
Warlord Traits:
12" +1 combat result
6" Twin-link one Ordnance weapon
Fearless & FNP (6+) whilst in fortification or getting cover from a defence line
May choose to use Night Fighting
6" Preferred Enemy (Infantry) in own deployment zone
Shatter Defences vs one piece of terrain in enemy deployment zone
Death Rider Battle-Forged Detachment: 1HQ & 2FA compulsory. Additional 1HQ, 1LoW, 2TR, 4EL, 4FA, 4HS. Must be all DKoK faction, comp HQ must be Death Rider CCS, comp FA must be DRs. ObSec. When you charge 2+ DR or DRCS or DRCCS into a unit in the same turn they all........................cause Fear! DRCCS is a DRCS with a Colonel upgrade who must be the Warlord.
Gorgon Assault Squadron: 1HQ, 1LoW, 1TR & 1EL compulsory. Additional 1HQ, 9TR, 2EL, 2FA, 2HS, 2LoW. Must all be DKoK faction. All LoW must be Gorgons, all Gorgons must have at least 1 squad in at the start. ObSec. As long as a Gorgon has at least one DKoK faction unit inside gains IWND. DKoKs that disembark from a Gorgon and assault in the same turn get Furious Charge.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: So what's the difference for the Alpha Legion dude, and what's the Purge Detachment do?
The CSM characters are HQ choices only for CSM.
Pretty similar. Chaos Lord with T5, 5++. Combi-melta, Dark Blade (+2S, AP3, Rending). VotLW, Counter-attack, squad gains CA too. Warlord trait allows him to choose board edge but sacrifice first turn, also re-roll seize.
The Purge: 1HQ & 2EL compulsory. Additional 1HQ, 8TR, 4EL, 4HS, 1LoW, 1 Fortification. Can be Chaos Renegades or Chaos Space Marines. Marks and Devotions can only be Nurgle or nothing. Blast Barrages stay in player until start of firer's next turn and count as dangerous terrain. Flamers, heavy flamers and missile launchers can be chemical, templates get Shred and Gets Hot, Missiles are small blast, Shred and Gets Hot.
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
2015/02/14 21:07:49
Subject: Re:Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
Baragash wrote: The Hades Drill is still a DT, and is now a MC not a vehicle.
Let us always remember this important day, when GW finally admitted that there is no sensible answer to the question "what decides if a unit is a MC or a vehicle".
Death Rider Battle-Forged Detachment: 1HQ & 2FA compulsory. Additional 1HQ, 1LoW, 2TR, 4EL, 4FA, 4HS. Must be all DKoK faction, comp HQ must be Death Rider CCS, comp FA must be DRs. ObSec. When you charge 2+ DR or DRCS or DRCCS into a unit in the same turn they all........................cause Fear! DRCCS is a DRCS with a Colonel upgrade who must be the Warlord.
Wow. That's pretty bad. You'd think they could have at least given it additional charge range or something. I guess it's a cheap way to add some death riders to an existing army without paying the troops + HQ tax?
Gorgon Assault Squadron: 1HQ, 1LoW, 1TR & 1EL compulsory. Additional 1HQ, 9TR, 2EL, 2FA, 2HS, 2LoW. Must all be DKoK faction. All LoW must be Gorgons, all Gorgons must have at least 1 squad in at the start. ObSec. As long as a Gorgon has at least one DKoK faction unit inside gains IWND. DKoKs that disembark from a Gorgon and assault in the same turn get Furious Charge.
This, on the other hand, is pretty awesome. An extra LoW (and the Gorgon isn't bad if it doesn't take up your LoW slot) and a useful bonus, and the minimum requirements aren't bad. I guess this kind of makes up for the failure of the death rider formation?
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/02/14 21:32:06
Subject: Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
Duty unto Death: Target unit can re-roll failed Ld tests until their next Shooting Phase. If they roll a double 1 for any Ld test in this time they are Fearless until their next Shooting Phase.
Dig In: Until next Shooting Phase +1 cover from non-Fortifications (or 6+ if no cover), can't Run, can't move or Assault in Assault phase.
Clear the Trenches: Lasguns are R12" Assault 2 this turn and unit gains MTC.
DKoK still +1WS, immune to Fear, no Morale checks for 25% casualties, if within 6" of an Officer may regroup even if under 25% of starting strength.
Breaching Drill:
S8 T7 W3 AS3+.
Is actually part of the Engineer Squad.
4++ on the turn it arrives (???!!!).
Can now move 12" and ignore all terrain and models but must not end move within 2" of models (also gains the not very useful 4++ when moving like this).
Can also tunnel to assault, rolls extra D6 and discards the highest, No overwatch, ignores terrain, counts as assault grenades. D6+2 HoW resolved at melta-cutter stats. When used against a building or fortification embarked models roll a 4+ each to suffer S4 AP2 hit.
Death Riders are W2, I don't know if that's a change or not.
@Peregrine: possibly the Drill is an MC because it's part of the Engineer squad and making it a vehicle opens some cans of worms (like Overlords on CCBs and psychic powers etc). This may actually be the day someone at GW made the choice for a sensible reason.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/14 21:47:55
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
2015/02/14 23:30:45
Subject: Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
Baragash wrote: Duty unto Death: Target unit can re-roll failed Ld tests until their next Shooting Phase. If they roll a double 1 for any Ld test in this time they are Fearless until their next Shooting Phase.
Oh good, continuing the IA12 tradition of giving DKoK a dozen different and mostly redundant ways to ignore leadership tests. I guess "we don't run" fluff is more important than giving useful orders?
Dig In: Until next Shooting Phase +1 cover from non-Fortifications (or 6+ if no cover), can't Run, can't move or Assault in Assault phase.
This is potentially interesting. Unlike the codex order you don't have to go to ground to get the extra cover bonus, which is pretty nice.
Clear the Trenches: Lasguns are R12" Assault 2 this turn and unit gains MTC.
And good to see this one back, especially with that Gorgon formation. Does it apply to just lasguns, or are laspistols included like in IA12? Making pistols assault 2 was a nice option for death riders.
Breaching Drill:
The most important question: how does it arrive from deep strike? Has it gone back to something like the old 5th edition rules where it hits stuff and then pushes the survivors out of the way, or does it keep the 6th edition rules where it has little chance of clearing a spot and is almost guaranteed to mishap if you try to use its deep strike attack instead of wasting it by going into clear space?
D6+2 HoW resolved at melta-cutter stats.
And this is just hilarious. Looks like we're back to throwing marines into the wood chipper, unlike the underwhelming D3 tank shock hits from the 6th edition version.
Death Riders are W2, I don't know if that's a change or not.
It's not. Good to have confirmation that they kept it though, as it was a very nice addition in IA12.
@Peregrine: possibly the Drill is an MC because it's part of the Engineer squad and making it a vehicle opens some cans of worms (like Overlords on CCBs and psychic powers etc). This may actually be the day someone at GW made the choice for a sensible reason.
I don't know, making it an MC that's part of the squad opens different cans of worms (rolling against majority T3 and wasting the toughness of a MC, does the unit count as a MC or infantry, etc). I don't know why it has to be part of the squad at all instead of being an independent unit like it always has been.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/02/14 23:34:25
Subject: Re:Imperial Armour – The Siege of Vraks updated for 7th ed.
Thanks a thon for the reviews. A couple of questions:
- do the Death riders still have FNP 6+ or is it 5+ like the new death rider company commander had?
- can the breaching drill deepstrike?
- you say they now have armywide rule "immune to fear". Really? That would be nice
- is there any reference in the list to flyers (Avenger, thunderbolt)?
- are engineers and centaurs the same as they were and still troops?
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