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Made in lt
Druid Warder





This is not a battle report, but something from my latest game, Circle vs. Khador.

As my army was shot and slaughtered at the end of Turn 3, I've found myself with the situation shown on panel A. Nothing is to scale, but I tried to get it as close to what I remember as I could. Having no hopes for attrition next turn, I've decided to give the caster kill a go. Now, my solution is most likely to cause a lot of laughter, but that is the point - I'd really like to learn how to do it right! Mohsar starts with full 8 fury.



1. Gnarlhorn grand-slams Black Ivan by 6 inches with follow-up, thus removing both models from further considerations.
2. Druids shoot the war dog to pull it closer and open LoS to the enemy commander.
3. Mohsar casts Sands of Fate to shift into the position of the druid further up the field.
4. Mohsar shoots Harkevich for a point of damage.
5. Mohsar casts Crevasse on Harkevich, doing another 4 points of damage.
6. Shadowhorn makes full advance and then leaps 5" to barely enter melee with Harkevich, then uses two fully boosted attacks (to hit and damage rolls) to kill him.

Is there a way to make these tricks more reliable? At least to me on paper Mohsar looks full of tricks - he can "teleport" (twice, Mirage and Sands), gain fury mid-turn, shoot, cast direct damage and debuff spells, but in my hands he barely manages to scratch anything. Am I looking at him wrong, or just using him wrong? Any tips, hints, useful reading? Thanks!

Painting progress tracker:
2017: 50 of 50 planned; 2018: 80 of 60 planned; 2019: 75 of 75 planned

Pledge 2020:
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Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

Gnarlhorn slamming wardog into harkevich, Mohsar crevassing and shooting the living daylights out of him & druids bolting him followed by the Shadowhorn (this last bit is questionable, since you said he barely entered melee last time) with his hop skip and jump if needs must. You'd now be autohitting, so just buy more attacks, no need to boost.

But that is dependent a bit on distances, camp, health of Harkevich, etc. No camp, no feat, he's at ARM 16 with 18 boxes

2 damage from slam (POW 10 or 11 isn't the satyr?), 2 damage from bolts (POW 10s), Boost damage from big M's gun for 7 damage all up to hark, maltreat one of your beasts, 2 boosted damage crevasse rolls (say 10 for damage both times) means another 12 damage. That'll kill Harkevich, doing 23 damage. This means you have 5 damage worth of bad rolling leeway ha, so your druids and satyr can both do nothing, and you can roll further below average, as in a 9 (I went with 10 for all damage rolls rather than 10.5) with Mohsar on one of his things, and still put that Khadoran dog in the dirt.

Of course that is moot if the wardog fails it's tough, because then the gnarlhorn would just have followed up into melee with a KD caster (if I'm reading follow up right), and should be able to put him down. If he doesn't, the crevasse shots should still hit easily and do the rest of the work.

But that could just be the Cygnar in me talking, always looking for a ranged assassination over melee

Also let's go to general with this rather than YMDC

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/02/25 22:36:46


I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut



New Zealand

Yeah there are always a heap of factors involved with an assassination, but if you can knock the caster down life is always much easier. In this case if looks like you could have either Slammed the Wardog into his caster (potentially then using Follow Up to start swinging on his caster, which could have finished him right there), or used a double handed throw on the dog or Black Ivan to throw them at his caster. The Slam is the most straightforward (and I have no idea if walking up and then throwing was going to work out distance wise) but using a boosted throw may sometimes be better based on where it puts your models (I think Slamming the dog would put you in the way of your other heavy).

In a perfect world I would throw Ivan into his caster and the dog, kill the dog and knock his caster down - then use the Druids to pull his caster out from behind the objective. At that point his caster is just dead with your heavy and your caster still to activate. Honestly Mohsars contribution in this should be minimal, the Druids and the two heavies should be enough to make this happen.

   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut




Why not just kill the dog with a crevice, pull harkevich out with the bolts and then send both warbeasts into him? No real reason to use sands to teleport

My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Raleigh NC USA

I thought you couldn't move knocked down models.

There is a word for a wargamer with an empty paint bench.

Dead.

Mierce Miniatures wrote:

Plastic is getting better - but the quality of resin still pees all over it -
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Illinois

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
I thought you couldn't move knocked down models.

Knocked down models can't advance or be moved by a slam put pushes still work.
   
Made in lt
Druid Warder





Thanks for Your suggestions and to Motyak for moving the thread - I was totally unsure where to put it!

My difficulty was that Mohsar had no line of sight to either war dog or enemy caster from behind satyrs, and with his short movement range he couldn't get it without one or both warbeasts moving away. I don't think eyeless sight helps with that, does it?

I have also considered knocking Harkevich down with a dog, but with all these "face directly" turns I was not sure there would be enough space for Shadowhorn to enter melee. Otherwise I would have been limited to force bolts from druids and Mohsar ranged capabilities, that currently do not imress me with damage and reliability.

Throwing the warjack into the caster would have worked, if I could get some extra movement on Gnarlhorn - Black Ivan was 8" away and I needed charge to reach it, or use shadowhorn and risk not being able to reach warcaster later.

Suggestion by Sining looks most promising, I'll try to remember that.

Would ARM debuff be better rather than direct damage crevasse?

Painting progress tracker:
2017: 50 of 50 planned; 2018: 80 of 60 planned; 2019: 75 of 75 planned

Pledge 2020:
6 to sculpt, 75 to paint (2/57 done) 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

Well you say you're not impressed with his ranged game, but I showed you that worse than average dice will do it. Never knock the ranged game! Ha. Even butcher can get caster kills with his blunderbuss if needs must

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in nz
Longtime Dakkanaut



New Zealand

Wirecat wrote:
Thanks for Your suggestions and to Motyak for moving the thread - I was totally unsure where to put it!

My difficulty was that Mohsar had no line of sight to either war dog or enemy caster from behind satyrs, and with his short movement range he couldn't get it without one or both warbeasts moving away. I don't think eyeless sight helps with that, does it?

I have also considered knocking Harkevich down with a dog, but with all these "face directly" turns I was not sure there would be enough space for Shadowhorn to enter melee. Otherwise I would have been limited to force bolts from druids and Mohsar ranged capabilities, that currently do not imress me with damage and reliability.

Throwing the warjack into the caster would have worked, if I could get some extra movement on Gnarlhorn - Black Ivan was 8" away and I needed charge to reach it, or use shadowhorn and risk not being able to reach warcaster later.

Suggestion by Sining looks most promising, I'll try to remember that.

Would ARM debuff be better rather than direct damage crevasse?

Eyeless Sight does not allow you to see through models, so yeah you would need to move Mohsar around the heavies. I don't know the range of Crevasse so its impossible to tell, but if you could walk around either heavy and get range then it seems like using a Crevasse to kill the dog (I assuming you have the focus to cast this more than once - because Tough could screw you pretty badly here) - pulling with Druids and then applying two heavies would be the best option. Trying to work out an actual percentage for each option is pretty tricky - partly because we don't know all the ranges but also because there are so many different ways to do this. You could even do stupid stuff like Curse of Shadows the Dog, Slam the heavy out of the way and then charge through the dog to get to his caster. Or Slam Ivan, NOT use follow up, buy attacks on the Dog and then sneak the Shadowhorn through the gap to get to Ivan (or put CoS on your own heavy to get him through....).

Context also matters here I think. If you had to kill him or lose then it could change your plans. If you can play for another turn if you don't kill him then Slamming his heavy out of the picture (don't follow up, he is then forced to spend two focus to get the jack back on his feat AND has to charge to get to you) and then trying to get as much damage on him as possible is still a good play as long as you end up camping a couple of avoid the counter assassination.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/27 04:06:17


 
   
Made in lt
Druid Warder





motyak wrote:Well you say you're not impressed with his ranged game, but I showed you that worse than average dice will do it. Never knock the ranged game! Ha. Even butcher can get caster kills with his blunderbuss if needs must


I do not knock the ranged game, in fact I am trying my best to use it and stay at range. However, with his spell and shot this time he put all 5 points of damage on Harkevich (probably due to feat...). It went as follows:
1. Starting with 8 fury, cast Sands of Fate to shift, down to 6 fury.
2. Maltreat Gnarlhorn, up to 7 fury.
3. Shoot Harkevich, boosting to hit and damage, 5 fury.
4. Cast Crevasse, again boosting, leaving no fury.

But I hope I am learning! Thanks!

Powerguy wrote:Eyeless Sight does not allow you to see through models, so yeah you would need to move Mohsar around the heavies. I don't know the range of Crevasse so its impossible to tell, but if you could walk around either heavy and get range then it seems like using a Crevasse to kill the dog (I assuming you have the focus to cast this more than once - because Tough could screw you pretty badly here) - pulling with Druids and then applying two heavies would be the best option. Trying to work out an actual percentage for each option is pretty tricky - partly because we don't know all the ranges but also because there are so many different ways to do this. You could even do stupid stuff like Curse of Shadows the Dog, Slam the heavy out of the way and then charge through the dog to get to his caster. Or Slam Ivan, NOT use follow up, buy attacks on the Dog and then sneak the Shadowhorn through the gap to get to Ivan (or put CoS on your own heavy to get him through....).

Context also matters here I think. If you had to kill him or lose then it could change your plans. If you can play for another turn if you don't kill him then Slamming his heavy out of the picture (don't follow up, he is then forced to spend two focus to get the jack back on his feat AND has to charge to get to you) and then trying to get as much damage on him as possible is still a good play as long as you end up camping a couple of avoid the counter assassination.


Now that You have made me take the card, the Follow Up is worded as "up to", which could mean I grand-slam Black Ivan with Gnarlhorn, move him further just enough to stay in melee range of the war dog, then try to kill it with the satyr. Then Mohsar can advance within sight of Harkevich and try casting Crevasse or Curse and then shooting. Maybe Curse is better, as it needs only boost to hit. Then druids can pull caster out for a (more certain) kill...

This is a complex game!

Painting progress tracker:
2017: 50 of 50 planned; 2018: 80 of 60 planned; 2019: 75 of 75 planned

Pledge 2020:
6 to sculpt, 75 to paint (2/57 done) 
   
 
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