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I really like the Idea of a dual TL Autocannon Dreadnought for under 150. What is Dakka's opinion on them. I am trying to build a solid list here is the link to it broken down.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/638046.page#7634530

Thanks for any input.

not as good as it used to be

It was good when our Autocannons could be Str8.

Now they're overpriced and don't do the work they once did.

this isn't to say they're bad, but GK Dreads pay 25 points for the psykic vehicle ability. something I think a lot of people don't nesscarily see as being worth it.

hmmm Thanks Guys ill Re look at it.

Is Draigo worth the points?

Son of aY3ti wrote:
hmmm Thanks Guys ill Re look at it.

keep in mind if you like it, that it's "not as good as it used to be" is proably good news for you. as I bet you can find some beautiful GK rifleman dreadnoughts on ebay reasonably cheap right now. I mean it's still not a BAD unit. it's just not the "autotake" it used to be

Son of aY3ti wrote:

Is Draigo worth the points?

Sure, if he has what you want. Guaranteed Gate of Infinity is pretty good, plus he's our only 3+ invuln and Eternal Warrior.

BrianDavion wrote:

Son of aY3ti wrote:
hmmm Thanks Guys ill Re look at it.

keep in mind if you like it, that it's "not as good as it used to be" is proably good news for you. as I bet you can find some beautiful GK rifleman dreadnoughts on ebay reasonably cheap right now. I mean it's still not a BAD unit. it's just not the "autotake" it used to be

yeah I will probably take 2 still but not the 4 I was thinking.

BrianDavion wrote:

Son of aY3ti wrote:
hmmm Thanks Guys ill Re look at it.

keep in mind if you like it, that it's "not as good as it used to be" is proably good news for you. as I bet you can find some beautiful GK rifleman dreadnoughts on ebay reasonably cheap right now. I mean it's still not a BAD unit. it's just not the "autotake" it used to be

It used to be an"auto take" in part because it was the closest thing to reliable AA Grey Knights had access to. At least that was my experience.

It was more the long range anti-tank and the AA capability. Not just the AA, we have Storm Ravens for that.

Deadawake1347 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Son of aY3ti wrote:
hmmm Thanks Guys ill Re look at it.

keep in mind if you like it, that it's "not as good as it used to be" is proably good news for you. as I bet you can find some beautiful GK rifleman dreadnoughts on ebay reasonably cheap right now. I mean it's still not a BAD unit. it's just not the "autotake" it used to be

It used to be an"auto take" in part because it was the closest thing to reliable AA Grey Knights had access to. At least that was my experience.

the lack of any skyfire options in the GK 'dex is proably one of the more glaring deficancies. you'd think the GKs would have some sort of tools on hand to fight deamons if they went all flying circus

BrianDavion wrote:

Deadawake1347 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Son of aY3ti wrote:
hmmm Thanks Guys ill Re look at it.

keep in mind if you like it, that it's "not as good as it used to be" is proably good news for you. as I bet you can find some beautiful GK rifleman dreadnoughts on ebay reasonably cheap right now. I mean it's still not a BAD unit. it's just not the "autotake" it used to be

It used to be an"auto take" in part because it was the closest thing to reliable AA Grey Knights had access to. At least that was my experience.

the lack of any skyfire options in the GK 'dex is proably one of the more glaring deficancies. you'd think the GKs would have some sort of tools on hand to fight deamons if they went all flying circus

yeah that is one thing that I am kind of worried about. I am also debating about taking a fortification with an icarus las.

I'd like to remind people that GK Dreads can get a 6+ invulnerable save and in any case add 1 extra psychic dice to the warp charge pool, hence they're costlier than SM dreads, but thats just one of the reasons it's costlier. The other is this:

Our army lacks high strength ranged weapons, so unlike in the Space Marine roster, where tl-autocannon dreads really feel superfluous and unnecessary when you got things like Predator Annihilators, Centurions, etc., they are pretty good and needed in the GK roster, given that our army excels at medium range shooting, psychic powers and close combat (all of which it performs better than vanilla Space Marines) but lacks ranged AT. Sure, we can spam psycannons, but usually they're a heavy weapon on squads, meaning you have to sacrifice all the stormbolters of the squad if you want to point that one psycannon at enemy armour, and usually remain stationary (unless the psycannon is on terminators, but those guys should get into cc ASAP).

Being able to move and fire four twin-linked S7 shots at 48" at armor (while the rest of your army concentrate on infantry) with the option of doing so at BS5 and making the opponent re-roll on 7th edition's improved vehicle damage table means the dreadnought is a pretty solid investment in a GK list.

Those aren't exactly amazing things. For cheaper I can get 2 warp charges from a Purifier squad.

A dreadnought can easily get a cover save, so a 6+ invuln is practically useless.

 Grey Templar wrote:
It was good when our Autocannons could be Str8.

Now they're overpriced and don't do the work they once did.

This, they're not that great anymore

Honestly I would be willing to pay upwards of 200 points for a Str8 dual autocannon dreadnought.

Dreadnoughts are massively overpriced and pay a ton of points for abilities that are better found elsewhere. 6++ is a joke, doubly so when you have to cast a psychic power just to use it, and it's so easy to get warp charges in GKs that there's no reason to use a Dreadnought to get that warp charge.

Better take centurions, your runing draigo and they are great with him and tigurius.

Dreadnoughts are the best way to get a MM in full GK list. If you are bringing a storm raven they are almost auto take IMO.

I like to run a SR with 10 purfiers combat squaded with 4 daemon hammers and a MM HF venerable dreadnought. This combined unit hits like a truck - turns mech lines into dead mech lines.

I'm pretty sure when you can get a 5 man term squad with a psycannon and daemon hammer for 185 - taking a 2x TL AC dread for 150 is a complete waste.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I like to run a SR with 10 purfiers combat squaded with 4 daemon hammers and a MM HF venerable dreadnought. This combined unit hits like a truck - turns mech lines into dead mech lines.

Where I'm from, we call that "Free VP". The SR arrives, dies, passengers are mostly killed off with the Dread receiving an auto pen. If the 3-4 Purifiers survivors or the near-wrecked Dread last one round, its a miracle.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I like to run a SR with 10 purfiers combat squaded with 4 daemon hammers and a MM HF venerable dreadnought. This combined unit hits like a truck - turns mech lines into dead mech lines.

Where I'm from, we call that "Free VP". The SR arrives, dies, passengers are mostly killed off with the Dread receiving an auto pen. If the 3-4 Purifiers survivors or the near-wrecked Dread last one round, its a miracle.

SJ

I wouldn't bring any fliers at all if I played in a meta where AA was common enough to grease a SR in one turn consistently. Sometimes I'll run into an Iccarus fortification but even without a lot of AA it's still risky bringing a SR. When it survives it is wonderful though - it's a lot of fun for friendly games.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I like to run a SR with 10 purfiers combat squaded with 4 daemon hammers and a MM HF venerable dreadnought. This combined unit hits like a truck - turns mech lines into dead mech lines.

Where I'm from, we call that "Free VP". The SR arrives, dies, passengers are mostly killed off with the Dread receiving an auto pen. If the 3-4 Purifiers survivors or the near-wrecked Dread last one round, its a miracle.

SJ

I wouldn't bring any fliers at all if I played in a meta where AA was common enough to grease a SR in one turn consistently. Sometimes I'll run into an Iccarus fortification but even without a lot of AA it's still risky bringing a SR. When it survives it is wonderful though - it's a lot of fun for friendly games.

One of the main reasons why I ignore Flyers by dodging them, rather than waste points trying to counter them.

SJ

 Xenomancers wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I like to run a SR with 10 purfiers combat squaded with 4 daemon hammers and a MM HF venerable dreadnought. This combined unit hits like a truck - turns mech lines into dead mech lines.

Where I'm from, we call that "Free VP". The SR arrives, dies, passengers are mostly killed off with the Dread receiving an auto pen. If the 3-4 Purifiers survivors or the near-wrecked Dread last one round, its a miracle.

SJ

I wouldn't bring any fliers at all if I played in a meta where AA was common enough to grease a SR in one turn consistently. Sometimes I'll run into an Iccarus fortification but even without a lot of AA it's still risky bringing a SR. When it survives it is wonderful though - it's a lot of fun for friendly games.

I run 2 flyers in my current army and they almost alwayse survive. AA normally means another flyer in my shop.

Here is my upadate

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/638046.page#7635816

GK Dreads are bizarrely overpriced. I wouldn't take them even in a casual game.

Psychic pilot really should just be free... also with the new Derodero Dread, Str 8 autocannons are back for 185 points.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Dreadnoughts are the best way to get a MM in full GK list. If you are bringing a storm raven they are almost auto take IMO.

Ummm, no. Just no.

That is a very expensive and fragile Multi-melta. And putting anything in a Stormraven is just wasting points. Storm Ravens are only worth it as gunships. You never want to stop and drop stuff off. Nor do you want to drop out of the back.

If the Stormraven is destroyed, the passengers are toast. If you deploy the passengers so they can assault, the Stormraven is toast. Its just a bad idea all around.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I like to run a SR with 10 purfiers combat squaded with 4 daemon hammers and a MM HF venerable dreadnought. This combined unit hits like a truck - turns mech lines into dead mech lines.

Where I'm from, we call that "Free VP". The SR arrives, dies, passengers are mostly killed off with the Dread receiving an auto pen. If the 3-4 Purifiers survivors or the near-wrecked Dread last one round, its a miracle.

SJ

I wouldn't bring any fliers at all if I played in a meta where AA was common enough to grease a SR in one turn consistently. Sometimes I'll run into an Iccarus fortification but even without a lot of AA it's still risky bringing a SR. When it survives it is wonderful though - it's a lot of fun for friendly games.

One of the main reasons why I ignore Flyers by dodging them, rather than waste points trying to counter them.

SJ

Nothing wrong with ignoring flyers as GK. Unless it's a d scythe hemlock...then that thing really needs to die. good thing bolters and cleansing flame can kill it. LOL.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Dreadnoughts are the best way to get a MM in full GK list. If you are bringing a storm raven they are almost auto take IMO.

Ummm, no. Just no.

That is a very expensive and fragile Multi-melta. And putting anything in a Stormraven is just wasting points. Storm Ravens are only worth it as gunships. You never want to stop and drop stuff off. Nor do you want to drop out of the back.

If the Stormraven is destroyed, the passengers are toast. If you deploy the passengers so they can assault, the Stormraven is toast. Its just a bad idea all around.

SR can be risky - no doubt there - but there are more than enough lists out there that have 0 AA that SR will hit paydirt more often than not. Fly in pop a transport with dread MM's - next turn double cleansing flame and assualt 3 different targets with purifiers and a dread. I've had this unit win the game for me on several occasions and I've never had it blown outta the sky with units inside - that would make me a poor genreal. If they have a ton of AA just drop everything on the turn it comes in and shunt all your dread-knights and assault with your whole army next turn. GK is all about power moves - it works provided you can roll a 3+ turn 2.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/638046.page

One More attempt

 Quickjager wrote:
Psychic pilot really should just be free... also with the new Derodero Dread, Str 8 autocannons are back for 185 points.

too bad Grey Knights can't take the things :(


as a GK player I'm kinda sad how often we miss out on cool stuff all the other Space Marine armies get. I certinly understand why but it'd be nice to have some more toys

Doesnt make sense that we cant take them, I mean at least fluff wise the GK chapter is supposed to have the best of everything