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2015/03/10 17:38:03
Subject: Soda Pop Miniatures - Ninja All Stars - Kickstarter fulfillment underway!
Ninja All-Stars™ features fully assembled, high quality miniatures and an exciting community driving, league style of gameplay. Build a team of elite ninja and compete for honor and glory against rival clans.
Build a team of elite ninja and compete for honor and glory against rival clans. Games pit 2 - 4 players against one another in a series of challenges to earn the favor of the Moon Princess. Between challenges, ninja earn experience to gain new abilities and combat aptitudes. As leader of your clan, you guide the growth of your team, including hiring powerful Heroes and Ronin to aid your cause.
John Cadice of ND wrote:Ninja All-Stars is a brand new world and game for Ninja Division and Soda Pop Miniatures. Players take on the roll of one of six ninja clans, all vying for the honor of winning the great Tournament of the Moon. Using all the tricks at your disposal, your ninja team will expand, bring on legendary heroes, and learn new skills as they compete in the various arenas set for each event. Players will face off with their teams against one another in one-off games or in community league style play, with persistent characters, rewards, and upgrades for your most experienced ninja.
There are six primary clans on Kagejima, each has a special connection with the land and the sacred elements of creation.
Clan Ika - These hardy warriors are in touch with the elements of water, flexible, skilled, and swift as their kami, the giant squid.
Clan Tora – Industrious warriors and alchemists, the Tora are most in touch with the elements of fire, ferocious and swift in battle as their kami, the tiger.
Clan Tanchyo – Woodland communities that live high in the trees, watching the hidden paths with cheeks pressed to fletched arrows, Tanchyo ninja are masters of the element of wind, and are wise and swift like their kami, the crane.
Clan Kitsune – Bearing the mark of their revered kami, a precocious little forest spirit, the Kitsune are most in touch with the element of spirit, being magical creatures themselves, and masters of medicines and poisons.
Clan Yamazaru – In the wandering stone paths, the adherents of the mountain clans are deep in touch with the element of earth, and are as tough and smart as their kami, the sage-like mountain monkeys.
Clan Ijin – Sprouting fierce horns and tusks, like their Ogre-like kami, the Ijin are quarrelsome and strong. The Ijin use dark magic, tapping the element of Void that has already caused them to take on their monstrous visage.
John Cadice of ND wrote:All clans have access to several types of ninja to hire for their team
Chunin (Team Leaders) are the rising stars in their clans, masters of the elemental secrets of their elders, and peerless warriors in combat. Maybe someday they will be as vaunted as some of the better known heroes who have made names for themselves.
Kaiken (The Daggers) are your basic ninja, but they are anything but basic. Tough, fast, and fighty, the Kaiken fulfill most of your combat rolls, and as they gain experience they can specialize in skills unique to their clan.
Yajiri (The Arrowheads) specialize in ranged combat, filling the air with whisper silent arrows, darts, and even the smoke and thunder of well aimed musket balls.
Madoushi (Sorcerers) use the elements to support their clansmen and attack their opponents with magic and alchemy.
Kunoichi (Lady Ninja) though being a clan ninja is not exclusive to boys, being a Kunoichi is exclusively for the ladies. These spry ninja train extensively to use their agility and speed to secure objectives, courier important artifacts and messages, and pepper enemies with shuriken and kunai.
There are powerful and more mystical creatures and wandering heroes that help the the various clans, but revelations on these powerful characters and kami will need to remain secret for now.
BobtheInquisitor wrote:I was really hoping they didn't go for chibi anime ninjas. Disappointed!
I was super hoping they did. Soda Pop does the best Chibi in the market, and it allows for SDE/Ninja crossover!
BrookM wrote:Is CMoN attached to this?
Nope - they split ways. This is Soda Pop/Ninja Division only. And I think the SDE:FK has been the best-run Kickstarter I've ever backed too. Weekly updates hell or highwater, previews and pictures of everything (absolutely everything, I think) and only a few months behind. (Which is like 6 months early by Kickstarter standards).
2015/03/10 20:22:48
Subject: Ninja Division / Soda Pop Miniatures - Ninja All Stars - Kickstarting March 23rd
CMoN and SPM split last year, and SPM launched SDE Forgotten King immediately afterward. Going forward, there will be no CMoN labeling on any SPM product - that's a lot of why SPM is going to a new edition of SDE, with a new base box and all new printed materials.
For better or worse, these Ninja follow the "Naruto" school of Ninja camouflage! In that cover image, one of them is wearing a golden helmet and blue cloak, one of them is wearing a purple robe and has bright red skin, and another is wearing a bikini top and not much else.
On a related note, I am really, really not a fan of heavily sexualising imagery intended to make characters look more childlike. I can only assume that Sodapop is making a fair amount of money with this tactic, but it seriously rubs me the wrong way.
2015/03/12 17:26:00
Subject: Ninja Division / Soda Pop Miniatures - Ninja All Stars - Kickstarting March 23rd
Bioptic wrote: On a related note, I am really, really not a fan of heavily sexualising imagery intended to make characters look more childlike.
I don't see this at all. They are "chibi" superdeformed, but not "childlike".
There was a big hullaballoo about this on the SDEKS.
Personally I didn't see anything as being "heavily sexualised", but even so, I see Chibi as more of an art style than actually trying to depict children.
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2015/03/12 19:24:55
Subject: Ninja Division / Soda Pop Miniatures - Ninja All Stars - Kickstarting March 23rd
Bioptic wrote: For better or worse, these Ninja follow the "Naruto" school of Ninja camouflage! In that cover image, one of them is wearing a golden helmet and blue cloak, one of them is wearing a purple robe and has bright red skin, and another is wearing a bikini top and not much else.
On a related note, I am really, really not a fan of heavily sexualising imagery intended to make characters look more childlike. I can only assume that Sodapop is making a fair amount of money with this tactic, but it seriously rubs me the wrong way.
Agree... One of the major problems with Sodapop is their hyper-sexualization portrayal of women. They are the poster child for 'what is wrong with gamers' in the tabletop arena. Of course, they know their audience, but it does give me pause when playing with kids because some of their models are pointlessly unreasonable.
I am hoping we will see female ninja who are not basically designed to be metal bikini eye candy. Since lower-end rank and file ninja do exist, It would make sense that you can have men and women as rank and file. I can see some kunochi having sexual looks, but there is no need for 100% of the female ninja to be unarmed, poorly clothed boob models for no reason.
I can see why 3rd parties not aware of Japanese animation may assume these are simply models of children... which raises the question 'why does this child have giant breasts and wearing a bikini.'
Chibi (ちび or チビ?) is a Japanese slang word meaning "short person" or "small child".
While it is ok sometimes, to exclusively make female models which are sexualized for no reason to appease to male gamers shows it is part of the problem. I was playing AQ with a bunch of kids, and DIVA was this one girl's favorite hero. I asked her why and her response was "All the other ones don't have armor, Diva looks like she can fight and is strong! I want to be strong!" Of the 13 female AQ heroes, all but 4 are sporting major cleavage. Of the 10 TFK female heroes, all but 2 are sporting major cleavage.
Don't get me started on "where are the non-white heroes?" questions...
Naruto is basically the source material for NAS, and they have a wide array of races and gender bodytypes. I can only hope for some diversity and non-sexist designs from future CHIBI campaigns. I think some female ninjas which are not basically busty sexpots without armor would be a welcome bonus to this campaign. I know discussing this gets you lynched on the sodapop boards because men think you want to take their bewbs away but as someone who plays games with kids, and chibi games seem to have a lot of appeal to kids compared to more grimdark fantasy designs, it would be nice to have more subdued and equal female models for variety for those kids.
They fail 6 out of the 8 things... and 2 things they don't do, can't be done in tabletop games.
*Avoid the Smurfette principle (don't have just one female character in an ensemble cast, let alone one whose personality is more or less "girl" or "woman.")
*"Lingerie is not armor" (Dress female characters as something other than sex objects.)
*Have female characters of various body types
*Don't over-emphasize female characters' rear ends, not any more than you would the average male character's.
*Include more female characters of color.
*Include female enemies, but don't sexualize those enemies
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 19:32:46
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
2015/03/12 19:59:59
Subject: Re:Ninja Division / Soda Pop Miniatures - Ninja All Stars - Kickstarting March 23rd
Bioptic wrote: On a related note, I am really, really not a fan of heavily sexualising imagery intended to make characters look more childlike.
A lot of this is lost in translation. Chibi is a Japanese slang word meaning "short person" or "small child". I wouldn't get too hung up on the 'small child' part however, the actual characters for Chibi ちび or チビ translates into "runt" if I recall. It has a broad spectrum of meanings from short person to a small child, as such it being slang.
nkelsch wrote: I am hoping we will see female ninja who are not basically designed to be metal bikini eye candy. Since lower-end rank and file ninja do exist, It would make sense that you can have men and women as rank and file. I can see some kunochi having sexual looks, but there is no need for 100% of the female ninja to be unarmed, poorly clothed boob models for no reason.
Keep in mind that just because artwork or something looks like a metal bikini, doesn't mean it needs to be painted that way especially when it comes to NInja. There is no reason why the blow examples have to be painted as bikinis and couldn't simply be black, gray or some other colored tights or clothing. It is the same thing as Infinity models, especially the Bootleg versions. Some painters will paint parts as flesh, but it doesn't have to be flesh... that is up to the painters and their individual styles.
Personally I tend to have a mix. There are some miniatures that I'll paint that way while others I will usually have it be a mesh, cloth, tights or some other material.
2015/03/12 20:16:05
Subject: Re:Ninja Division / Soda Pop Miniatures - Ninja All Stars - Kickstarting March 23rd
Bioptic wrote: On a related note, I am really, really not a fan of heavily sexualising imagery intended to make characters look more childlike.
A lot of this is lost in translation. Chibi is a Japanese slang word meaning "short person" or "small child". I wouldn't get too hung up on the 'small child' part however, the actual characters for Chibi ちび or チビ translates into "runt" if I recall. It has a broad spectrum of meanings from short person to a small child, as such it being slang.
nkelsch wrote: I am hoping we will see female ninja who are not basically designed to be metal bikini eye candy. Since lower-end rank and file ninja do exist, It would make sense that you can have men and women as rank and file. I can see some kunochi having sexual looks, but there is no need for 100% of the female ninja to be unarmed, poorly clothed boob models for no reason.
Keep in mind that just because artwork or something looks like a metal bikini, doesn't mean it needs to be painted that way especially when it comes to NInja. There is no reason why the blow examples have to be painted as bikinis and couldn't simply be black, gray or some other colored tights or clothing. It is the same thing as Infinity models, especially the Bootleg versions. Some painters will paint parts as flesh, but it doesn't have to be flesh... that is up to the painters and their individual styles.
Personally I tend to have a mix. There are some miniatures that I'll paint that way while others I will usually have it be a mesh, cloth, tights or some other material.
I agree... I paint catsuits on some of the more naked models. You still have the questions of why do children have massive boobs? If they are not children, why are all the boobs large opposed to simply feminine? Why are there only one body type or clothing design for females? When one female finally has armor, why does it have boob armor, and not regular armor?
These are actual questions asked by both kids and adults who are new to tabletop gaming or are observing games played. It would be nice to have some variety in model designs and not simply have to paint every model wearing skin-clothes.
Luckily 3rd parties have made enough reasonable female models along with animal humanoids, mouselings and ponies, that my hero pool is so large, that everyone can pretty much find a hero they identify with and the boobs mcgee, no armor females are a subset of models opposed to virtually 100% of the available female models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 20:17:09
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
2015/03/12 20:30:45
Subject: Re:Ninja Division / Soda Pop Miniatures - Ninja All Stars - Kickstarting March 23rd
nkelsch wrote: I agree... I paint catsuits on some of the more naked models. You still have the questions of why do children have massive boobs? If they are not children, why are all the boobs large opposed to simply feminine? Why are there only one body type or clothing design for females? When one female finally has armor, why does it have boob armor, and not regular armor?
These are actual questions asked by both kids and adults who are new to tabletop gaming or are observing games played. It would be nice to have some variety in model designs and not simply have to paint every model wearing skin-clothes.
The questions on boob armor vs regular armor doesn't usually come from some bystander, those will come from gamers and people who want to have a discussion typically about over sexualization. All the questions focused on boobs also seem to come from gamers, because it isn't miniatures gamers who would have other scale issues with more questions (since there are more men miniatures than female) like: Why do they have such large heads? Why are their arms so stubby and short? Why are their legs so stubby and short? How come they don't have waists or a mid-body section? None of which even matches if someone was thinking the miniatures were "children". To which the reply is, "They are Super Deformed, it is a different art style." To everyone else that only seems to see boobs and skin, I tend to refer here an article on female portrayals in video games.
I guess in short that I disagree... I just don't see how Chibi or Super Deformed are considered children. I get that there are probably some people who could think that. Just like there is a lot of people who simply relate anime as cartoons, even though to a good portion of people and audiences they are completely different.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 20:37:40
2015/03/12 20:45:42
Subject: Ninja Division / Soda Pop Miniatures - Ninja All Stars - Kickstarting March 23rd
I guess in short that I disagree... I just don't see how Chibi or Super Deformed are considered children. I get that there are probably some people who could think that. Just like there is a lot of people who simply relate anime as cartoons, even though to a good portion of people and audiences they are completely different.
Because the term means children, it is cartoony which is universally seen as for children, it is a 'game' which is for children, and they look like smaller versions of adults... which is what children are.
That article you linked is way off base... the body shaming comes into play when no one looks like the heroes they are supposed to be playing as. People don't want to pointlessly cover up all heroes, they want heroes to look like real people... which means 9/10 of them are not giant-breasted amazonians in bikinis. The response of "I like sexy big boobs, you have your token covered up skinny girl, let is get back to our games" is basically her point.
In the Chibi realm, and traditionally in chibi art, males and females usually have similar bodies and only explicit features are exaggerated. Of all the TFK designs, the only character who would make a good chibi with gratutous oversized boobs is maurieClaude. Just like in a Naurto Chibi art, the only female character who would have oversized boobs is tsunade. Doesn't mean they need to go away or it is sex shaming, it is most females, especially chibi ones have no reason to have oversized boobs, both in the artform which is chibi but also in the character design, it adds nothing to the character.
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
2015/03/12 22:34:13
Subject: Re:Ninja Division / Soda Pop Miniatures - Ninja All Stars - Kickstarting March 23rd
nkelsch wrote: Because the term means children, it is cartoony which is universally seen as for children, it is a 'game' which is for children, and they look like smaller versions of adults... which is what children are.
Except it doesn't at least not in the sense that westernized culture would view it. ち (chi) び (bi) translates as runt, height is low (short stature). For reference ja.wikipedia link for ちび. Cartoons stopped being seen universal for children years ago with Anime... some of the most popular animated, CGI, etc movies of today are popular not because they are cartoony and for children. The Chibi realm is actually pretty vast from Chibi to Super Deformed and becoming a popular style to what is known as Half-Age. It is in reference to the art style, not in reference to "looks like a child".
I'm not sure why Naruto is the end all of Chibi... but since we're using that an example. The majority of the characters in Naruto are children, that is why they would typically not be drawn that way. Once we get to Shippuden that is a different story as they are young adults at that point in terms of age and drawing style. That aside though here are quite a few well endowed female characters other than Tsunade: Naruto sexy-jistu, Temari, Ino, Konan, Pakura, Hotaru, Hinata, Anko, Samui, and Mei to name a few. With Naruto there is a large selection of characters that represent all sizes but that is Naruto and we're talking Chibi/Superdeformed and this
nkelsch wrote: Doesn't mean they need to go away or it is sex shaming, it is most females, especially chibi ones have no reason to have oversized boobs, both in the artform which is chibi but also in the character design, it adds nothing to the character.
It is an art style, that is how it is done and technically being Chibi adds nothing to the character itself. ND have always been overstylized and I don't see that changing. I am not sure if they'll have a broad spectrum but given the examples so far, it seems the actual artwork is fairly representative of the character and even the ones I linked aren't huge, even by Tsunade's standards.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/03/12 22:36:16
2015/03/12 23:39:47
Subject: Ninja Division / Soda Pop Miniatures - Ninja All Stars - Kickstarting March 23rd
Of course not! For one, unlike his female counterpart, he doesn't have his legs splayed to show his underwear on the box art. He is a Realistic Demon Ninja in a Realistic Demon Ninja pose.
Alright, enough of that - it's just that they're mostly showing off the character designs first, without much else to go on. And has been commented, the female characters are all largely "of a type".
How do people feel about the movement grid - that there isn't one, just a dot matrix to show off a more "natural-looking board"? I think placing models directly over the dots might be a big strange, as there's so much fudging, and a slight knock makes it rather hard to remember the position a model was originally in. The tiny snippets of the boards seen so far do look lush though.
2015/03/13 00:25:48
Subject: Re:Ninja Division / Soda Pop Miniatures - Ninja All Stars - Kickstarting March 23rd
Bioptic wrote: How do people feel about the movement grid - that there isn't one, just a dot matrix to show off a more "natural-looking board"? I think placing models directly over the dots might be a big strange, as there's so much fudging, and a slight knock makes it rather hard to remember the position a model was originally in. The tiny snippets of the boards seen so far do look lush though.
The traditional way to do dots is have dots at all 4 corners of a square, rather than to place the model over the dot. But maybe there's a fudge factor over where the model needs to be for LOS / sub-positioning based on the actual models?
I do like the look of the boards this way - the artwork takes priority over the grid.
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