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So, word is out that Tau vs. SM will be a fall release box set. That likely means a Tau codex in August or September, with a Space Marines release in early Novemver to maximize revenue from the holiday buying spree.

So let's predict and wishlist a little bit!

Try to separate your predictions into nerfs and buffs; here are mine:

Nerfs:
-Early Warning Override will go up in cost by 300-400%
-Riptides will go up in cost 10-15%
-Signature Systems will be limited to 1-2 selections per suit (bye bye buff commander)
-High-yield Missile Pods on Broadsides will be a 10-15 points upgrade (Railguns for free)

Buffs:
-Firewarriors will be reduced in cost by 1 point
-Hammerheads will be reduced in cost by 10-15 points
-Devilfish will be 5 points cheaper
-Stealth suits will experience a 10 point reduction
-Tau will receive wargear that gives them nominal Psychic Defense (probably on Ethereals)

Wishlist:
-Railguns on Broadsides to return to S10
-A new flier (that's good)
-A new Crisis Suit model (this is in fact rumored)
-None of the nerfs above coming into effect

I fancy some Gue'Vesa

Nerf: Markerlights go back to one markerlight per point of cover save removed

Buff: Firewarriors can take rail/ion rifles as specialist weapons like Pathfinders

Wishlist: Formations for Piranhas, Hammerheads, Stealth Suits

I actually liked the idea where they swapped the ion accelerator from the riptide with the ion cannon on the hammerhead platform. That way you don't really need to jack up the price of the riptide as much since now he's limited to AP3 blasts at most whereas the Hammerhead has an actual chance in competing against Broadsides by providing S8 AP2 large blasts and not just having to default to a railgun. It would also make Longstrike that much nastier.

Also, to show that the Tau are starting to streamline some of their more experimental weaponry into their main forces, a new kit of Fire Warriors with possible upgrades to include ion and rail rilfes wouldn't be half bad. It would allow them some variety in troop choice options besides a bonding knife via their Sha'sui.

Good point about formations, what formations do people think Tau will get? For which units? With which accompanying rules?

Apart for the bonkers Markerlights=no cover save and maybe the Overwatch assistance, i don't have much of a beef Vs Taus.

IMO it doesn't need to be nerfed more then that, well maybe the Sun filters..., because it makes a whole lot of units that use Blind rule fething useless, like maybe change it for a reroll on the test.

Wishlist: add GLORIOUS CLOSE COMBAT for suits

Why would you go through the bother of building a giant robot without having it punching stuff?

Only half kidding

 Grimdark wrote:
Wishlist: add GLORIOUS CLOSE COMBAT for suits

Why would you go through the bother of building a giant robot without having it punching stuff?

Only half kidding

Moving Onager Gauntlets from Signature to Support systems could accomplish this. Essentially a hidden powerfist. They'd have to raise the points by 400-500% though to make it fair. Although, it would be WS2 lol.

To be able to play Kroot as a completely independant army, and flesh out the auxiliaries a bit.

They're meant to have assimilated a bunch of races afterall, might aswell make them unique.

 winnertakesall wrote:
To be able to play Kroot as a completely independant army, and flesh out the auxiliaries a bit.

They're meant to have assimilated a bunch of races afterall, might aswell make them unique.

This is indeed rumored. No release estimate yet. Apparently models are in the works but I wouldn't expect them before Spring 2016 at the earliest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Shrike wrote:

 winnertakesall wrote:
To be able to play Kroot as a completely independant army, and flesh out the auxiliaries a bit.

They're meant to have assimilated a bunch of races afterall, might aswell make them unique.

This is indeed rumored. No release estimate yet. Apparently models are in the works but I wouldn't expect the codex before Spring 2016 at the earliest.

Make markerlights go back to what they were before the 6th edtion codex.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Make markerlights go back to what they were before the 6th edtion codex.

I love how everyone whines so much about marker lights. Any competent player can easily eliminate all tau marker lights in 1-2 turns. Pathfinders and drones die very easily. And it is not like using marker lights is a free upgrade tau get. You have to pay for entire squads (that die easily) to be able to have marker lights.

notredameguy10 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Make markerlights go back to what they were before the 6th edtion codex.

I love how everyone whines so much about marker lights. Any competent player can easily eliminate all tau marker lights in 1-2 turns. Pathfinders and drones die very easily. And it is not like using marker lights is a free upgrade tau get. You have to pay for entire squads (that die easily) to be able to have marker lights.

I agree that complaints are unfounded; but at the same time no competent Tau player would have such flimsy marker support that it could be eliminated in two turns. At tournaments you will rarely see any Pathfinders at all (hopefully they go down in points). You'll see Mark'os tanking for drones in Crisis squads; you'll see Skyrays, you'll see Tetras where FW is allowed. Et cetera.

Do Riptides really need nerfing any more? They're a hard counter with EWO to deep-striking heavy infantry/drop pods, but with all the flyrants, knights, wraithknights, gorka/morkanauts, and so forth that have come out since the riptide appeared, is it really still considered OP?

office_waaagh wrote:
Do Riptides really need nerfing any more? They're a hard counter with EWO to deep-striking heavy infantry/drop pods, but with all the flyrants, knights, wraithknights, gorka/morkanauts, and so forth that have come out since the riptide appeared, is it really still considered OP?

No, not at all. But GW does not exist in the competitive meta where there are things much worse than Riptides. In fact, the design team has proven they exist in a world much closer to Neck Beard Nerd Rage than measured balance assessment.

They've actually been doing a decent job with the 7th ed releases. But until they prove otherwise, I still expect them to nerf things that a certain sect of people view as OP.

Right off the bat MSS, PeNchip, C&C node all get nerfed into the dirt. And most likely fire support as well. Along with good odds that marker drones wont be available in squadrons.

Basically expect GW to throw the army in the dumpster, if they come out anything but meh I'll be surprised considering they killed 40k for a lot of people.

The advanced stabilisation system option.
New crisis all the way.
D strength hammerhead rail
Strength 10 broadside rail
Broadsides should be T5
Shield drone with sworn protector (take the hit).
Do something with the riptide so people can stop moaning
Do something with marker lights so people can stop moaning
Make stealth suits have some form of cloaking/invisibility (like they used to have)
Fix the flyers
New firewarriors (weapon options would be nice too)
Point adjustments

Nothing else really.
I think the codex is fairly good. Problem units are well known and mainly these need adjusting.

My bets are on the following:
Nerf the riptide because it's already sold well so we want to promote...
Buffed crisis suits because they'll have new models and will be the 'new hotness' to make massive sales.
Make the flyer better because it didn't sell too well last time.
Make new firewarriors with new options because they're a staple.
Maybe some new unit (probably a crisis variant)

 The Shrike wrote:

office_waaagh wrote:
Do Riptides really need nerfing any more? They're a hard counter with EWO to deep-striking heavy infantry/drop pods, but with all the flyrants, knights, wraithknights, gorka/morkanauts, and so forth that have come out since the riptide appeared, is it really still considered OP?

No, not at all. But GW does not exist in the competitive meta where there are things much worse than Riptides. In fact, the design team has proven they exist in a world much closer to Neck Beard Nerd Rage than measured balance assessment.

They've actually been doing a decent job with the 7th ed releases. But until they prove otherwise, I still expect them to nerf things that a certain sect of people view as OP.

I think if that were literally true they'd have beat the Eldar to death with the nerf bat a while ago. In all honesty they've been pretty good lately I think; nothing got nerfed too hard in the Ork codex except Mob Rule (which was a well-intentioned misfire). The Necrons lost some of their more ridiculous 5ed era nonsense (good riddance to old MSS) but nothing really got nerfed. The Grey Knights lost a bunch of options but they just got moved to the inquisition dex, and their goofy-looking dreadknights are as nasty as ever.

I'd like to see a LOW gargantuan monstrous creature battlesuit show up. More options for riptide. Ability to give more dudes markerlights in FW squads without having to upgrade the Shas-ui so they can direct seeker missiles against targets they can't handle themselves. On that note, cheaper seeker missiles. Some sort of jetbike. Cheaper pathfinders with stealth. Give stealth suits markerlights. Change pinpoint to twin-linked rather than +1 BS for each token spent. Add a precision shots ability to the markerlight table.

What I expect to see happen

-Ion Accelerator becomes a 15-25 point upgrade. Doing this is basically fix the only issue with Riptides.
-HYMP becomes a 10 point per model upgrade.
-Stealth Suits get a points reduction.
-Hammerheads get a point reduction.
-Farsight becomes a Lord of War, with some necessary buffs and points increase (eternal warrior, IWND, etc).
-Serious overhaul of the Tau flyers.
-Change to Markerlights so that 1 Markerlight = -1 cover save, rather than 2 Markerlights = Ignore Cover.


What I want to see happen

-Broadsides get T5. Seriously, the model is the size of a Dreadnought, but is somehow only T4? It makes no sense that models a quarter of it's size are somehow tougher than it.
-Broadsides get Slow and Purposeful. Yes they'd be able to move and shoot, but no overwatch, including supporting fire. (I'd rather get Relentless, but that'd probably be too good).
-Cadre Fireblades get a buff to make them worth taking. Perhaps armywide buff to non battlesuit units or access to certain signature systems?
-New Troop unit, possibly Gue'Vesa? (Particularly needed if the Kroot codex happens and Kroot are taken out of Tau).
-Fire Warriors gain access to Ion Rifles and Rail Rifles. They are wasted on Pathfinders as it is.
-Stealth Suits get moved to Fast Attack. It doesn't matter what you do with them, without nerfing Crisis Suits and Riptides into oblivion there is simply no reason to take them in an elite slot.
-Pathfinders get a points reduction. 11 ppm is just too much without something like stealth to make them a bit more survivable.
-Fix Vespids. Don't care how, just do it.
-Make Heavy Rail Rifles worth taking. Maybe give them Lance? That way they become useful again without overshadowing the Hammerhead.
-Close. Combat. Battlesuits. Seriously, make it happen.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Right off the bat MSS, PeNchip, C&C node all get nerfed into the dirt. And most likely fire support as well. Along with good odds that marker drones wont be available in squadrons.

Basically expect GW to throw the army in the dumpster, if they come out anything but meh I'll be surprised considering they killed 40k for a lot of people.

This is just plain harsh. Tau may as well be removed from the game then.
Let's make them so bad that Tau players suffer. That's progressive thinking.

Thematically i could see a sort of small-ish exosuit with a katana or double blade like weapon, would make the models on par with Marines stat wise with rendering blades and mobility?

Would be an elite unit and they could be taken has bodyguards for an Ethearal, with some kind of pulse pistol/armwrist gun, would look like this;



But with Tau colour scheme of course.

 The Shrike wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Make markerlights go back to what they were before the 6th edtion codex.

I love how everyone whines so much about marker lights. Any competent player can easily eliminate all tau marker lights in 1-2 turns. Pathfinders and drones die very easily. And it is not like using marker lights is a free upgrade tau get. You have to pay for entire squads (that die easily) to be able to have marker lights.

I agree that complaints are unfounded; but at the same time no competent Tau player would have such flimsy marker support that it could be eliminated in two turns. At tournaments you will rarely see any Pathfinders at all (hopefully they go down in points). You'll see Mark'os tanking for drones in Crisis squads; you'll see Skyrays, you'll see Tetras where FW is allowed. Et cetera.

It's not the weak platforms or anything, I'm saying that they should work how they used to. For each one used, +1 BS, and you can use one to lower their cover save by 1. Using 2 to outright ignore cover with whatever you want is a bit much.

Otherwise, Tau seem pretty solid to me, other than needing better fliers and Vespid need something as well.

I'd expext buffs will come to models receiving new kits.

If they make a new Crisis kit expect them to be good enough so people will actually want to field 9 of them and 9 Riptides.

Boniface wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Right off the bat MSS, PeNchip, C&C node all get nerfed into the dirt. And most likely fire support as well. Along with good odds that marker drones wont be available in squadrons.

Basically expect GW to throw the army in the dumpster, if they come out anything but meh I'll be surprised considering they killed 40k for a lot of people.

This is just plain harsh. Tau may as well be removed from the game then.
Let's make them so bad that Tau players suffer. That's progressive thinking.

Its happened before, and GW is rarely subtle when it comes to balancing things in the opposite direction. The next tau dex will have all of its relics taken away which crushes a lot of builds that revolve around the buffmander.

I wouldn't be sure. Based on huge sales of tau last time round (reportedly) I would imagine they'll eek a bit more out yet.

Boniface wrote:
Let's make them so bad that Tau players suffer. That's progressive thinking.

Ravenous D does have a point, GW isn't exactly "subtle" when it comes to this kind of thing. It isn't just people wanting to "punish" Tau players or wanting us to suffer (although those people are out there and they are idiots), GW is really just that fething awful at game balance.

 The Shrike wrote:

office_waaagh wrote:
Do Riptides really need nerfing any more? They're a hard counter with EWO to deep-striking heavy infantry/drop pods, but with all the flyrants, knights, wraithknights, gorka/morkanauts, and so forth that have come out since the riptide appeared, is it really still considered OP?

No, not at all. But GW does not exist in the competitive meta where there are things much worse than Riptides. In fact, the design team has proven they exist in a world much closer to Neck Beard Nerd Rage than measured balance assessment.

They've actually been doing a decent job with the 7th ed releases. But until they prove otherwise, I still expect them to nerf things that a certain sect of people view as OP.

Because of how slow codex updates used to be in the past, with most armies even having to skip an entire edition (other than Marines or Tyranids), it's pretty common for GW to get around to "fixing" something only after it's stopped being a problem in the first place.

The safe bet is to expect GW to nerf it into the ground anyway because people used to complain about it a lot. But GW is especially unpredictable nowadays so who knows anymore.

Two predictions...

1. Prepare to build an army using formations within formations.
2. The core formation will require Piranha's.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Boniface wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Right off the bat MSS, PeNchip, C&C node all get nerfed into the dirt. And most likely fire support as well. Along with good odds that marker drones wont be available in squadrons.

Basically expect GW to throw the army in the dumpster, if they come out anything but meh I'll be surprised considering they killed 40k for a lot of people.

This is just plain harsh. Tau may as well be removed from the game then.
Let's make them so bad that Tau players suffer. That's progressive thinking.

Its happened before, and GW is rarely subtle when it comes to balancing things in the opposite direction. The next tau dex will have all of its relics taken away which crushes a lot of builds that revolve around the buffmander.

And in return Tau will get an awesome formation like the Decurion that will make everyone rage :p

To be fair with GW you can never know They're so bad at game balance that we might end up with the new FotM codex, a big pile of gak or anything in between.

I was under the impression the codex rumors came from a snark post on the Lord of War facebook page or whatever. Is this actually going down?

If any HQ would become LoW, it would be Aun'Va.

I don't think a new codex is coming at all. Just like Tyranids - new formations in a campaign book. Maybe some new units.

I do fully expect a Kroot mini-codex, though. And new models for Crisis and Commander.

 oni wrote:
Two predictions...

1. Prepare to build an army using formations within formations.
2. The core formation will require Piranha's.

But piranhas are good. Now, if the core formation requires pathfinders, vespids or stealth suits...