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I've heard a lot of people talk about hard counters to armies (Drop pods vs. Tau for example), but is there a hard counter to Necrons currently? I feel like while Necrons may not have tons of firepower in a general list, a regular TAC list doesn't really seem to have a hard counter other than faster units who can grab objectives first.

Yes. Blood angels furious charge turns 1 and 2 using lots of dreadnoughts.

Or use eldar mobility to lock your entire army one a small part of the decurion each turn until it's gone.

Or swamp the army with no where to go with 500 guardsmen or orcs.

Or just blow the slow moving decurion off the board with massed rail guns...

Ffyllotek wrote:
Yes. Blood angels furious charge turns 1 and 2 using lots of dreadnoughts.

Or use eldar mobility to lock your entire army one a small part of the decurion each turn until it's gone.

Or swamp the army with no where to go with 500 guardsmen or orcs.

Or just blow the slow moving decurion off the board with massed rail guns...

Theoretically.

Mass S8? Can you still ID them? Might want S10 for the wraiths.

Bring a bunch of those S10 AP4 rockets for guard paired with a giant couple blobs and i bet you'd get somewhere.

Three squads of two lascannon units for the vehicles. Lascannons wreck AV13.

The necrons are going to swing the meta hard towards heavier weapons. Av13 and the rp rolls means you want more str8+ in the army, which is a huge changes from the massed str6/7 you see now. People taking flyrants for their killing potential only are going to be VERY disappointed if they run into a Necron decurion.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The necrons are going to swing the meta hard towards heavier weapons. Av13 and the rp rolls means you want more str8+ in the army, which is a huge changes from the massed str6/7 you see now. People taking flyrants for their killing potential only are going to be VERY disappointed if they run into a Necron decurion.

Dunno, according to very confident people, 5 flyrants will still wreck a Decurion. *cough*no it wont*cough*


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Ffyllotek wrote:
Three squads of two lascannon units for the vehicles. Lascannons wreck AV13.

Yes, and how many people have been playing AV13 spam since the new codex? Everyone is using Destroyers or Wraiths, all of which shrug off lascannons with ease.

There is no hard counter to remove them from the table, excluding vehicles (and D-weapon blasts like Vortex maybe). That's the conceptual design of the army. The other Necrons units need to be played through 6-7 turns.

These seem effective:
- Debuffs and effects to sneak around their Toughness/Armour/Jink/RP
- Armies with the mobility to exploit range over 36" or concentrate force on flanks
- Increasing your own resiliency through rerolls or FNP
- Reducing Necron resiliency through ID
- Sweeping Advance if you can manage it

Basically, don't throw all your effort into countering Necrons at their strength, which is defeating mid-strength firepower through layered saves.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The necrons are going to swing the meta hard towards heavier weapons. Av13 and the rp rolls means you want more str8+ in the army, which is a huge changes from the massed str6/7 you see now. People taking flyrants for their killing potential only are going to be VERY disappointed if they run into a Necron decurion.

Dunno, according to very confident people, 5 flyrants will still wreck a Decurion. *cough*no it wont*cough*


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ffyllotek wrote:
Three squads of two lascannon units for the vehicles. Lascannons wreck AV13.

Yes, and how many people have been playing AV13 spam since the new codex? Everyone is using Destroyers or Wraiths, all of which shrug off lascannons with ease.

Pplease do not up talk necrons. They aren't THAT great. My orks love how slowly you guys try to kill our tides.

There isn't. Because if you list tailor to beat them then seven other armies beat you. It's poor game design and a complete 180 from the codex they had put out since tau that nobody sane predicted these levels of unnecessary buffs. And even if they fix eldar and tau soon as rumored this turd of a codex will be here for years. My necron friend is bummed because he gets the eldar look when he puts his army on the table. Its going to take an edition change with massive changes, possibly in the meelee side making major gains, to fix this.

Honestly, I haven't seen a Necron army lose a game yet with the new book or even just tie a game. Nothing dies, and some of what you do kill just gets brought back (Warriors, Scarabs).

For everything that might be a weakness for some units, Necrons have other units that can engage on such terms exceedingly well, and they just have so much resiliency that you can't kill enough of anything to matter.

Ffyllotek wrote:
Three squads of two lascannon units for the vehicles. Lascannons wreck AV13.

Hrm, not so much through a Jink save however. I mean, they're not useless, but AV13 with Jink is pretty astoundingly hard to get through. It takes an average of twelve BS3 Lascannons to average 1 penetrating hit on a Jinking AV13 skimmer.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The necrons are going to swing the meta hard towards heavier weapons. Av13 and the rp rolls means you want more str8+ in the army, which is a huge changes from the massed str6/7 you see now. People taking flyrants for their killing potential only are going to be VERY disappointed if they run into a Necron decurion.

Dunno, according to very confident people, 5 flyrants will still wreck a Decurion. *cough*no it wont*cough*


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ffyllotek wrote:
Three squads of two lascannon units for the vehicles. Lascannons wreck AV13.

Yes, and how many people have been playing AV13 spam since the new codex? Everyone is using Destroyers or Wraiths, all of which shrug off lascannons with ease.

This. I can handle AV 13's fine, but it's the 20 man blobs with 4+ RP that are killing me. I can't keep them down.

 jreilly89 wrote:

This. I can handle AV 13's fine, but it's the 20 man blobs with 4+ RP that are killing me. I can't keep them down.

I think only melee is a good answer to that. As long as you bring at least AP4 (power maul), they'll eventually lose combat AND initiative.

If they have a zealot/fearless guy involved... don't melee them with elite people

Or, if you're talking about Flayed ones... no melee unless you're T9

 Orock wrote:
There isn't. Because if you list tailor to beat them then seven other armies beat you. It's poor game design and a complete 180 from the codex they had put out since tau that nobody sane predicted these levels of unnecessary buffs. And even if they fix eldar and tau soon as rumored this turd of a codex will be here for years. My necron friend is bummed because he gets the eldar look when he puts his army on the table. Its going to take an edition change with massive changes, possibly in the meelee side making major gains, to fix this.

This. One of my cron friends literally stopped playing because the army got "too OP" for his tastes, and he doesn't like "competitive games." I liked playing with him before, and I have to agree. To stand a decent chance I can't screw around with some Sanguinor-led silly list with dreadnoughts as long range fire like we used to. I have to at least bring a B+ or better game against them. A-game if they have decurion bonuses.

The only cron lists I've personally seen lose with my own eyes were CAD's with 3 or less wraiths (not units, 3 or less models.)

I may be a new player, but I have played against the new Necrons and have some thoughts as to dealing with them.

First, treat them as you would any specialist army: focus all your army's firepower on one unit at a time, and they will crumble.

Second, target priority is critical. Kill the most dangerous unit(s) first. In most cases, this is the unit closest to your own models.

Third, stay mobile. Necrons can be mobile, but only in short bursts (apart from Tomb Blades, but they are a distraction unit to be ignored). Going back to the second point, Necrons don't do long range firepower, apart from a couple units. Kite them around the board and contest their backfield objectives. The necron player will have to choose between slowly advancing to take objectives to backtracking onto his own.

As far as wraiths go, I've found that shooting them to death is the best and most viable option. Massed S5/6/7 shots will force the necron player to roll saves, and wraiths fail as often as any 3+ save. Massed snipers and/or poison shots also work well.

As for melee, it works well against Necron Warriors/Immortals, but not wraiths. Unless you have a unit that hits at I6 or better with massed S5 or better attacks with insane WS, you won't be able to kill them. They simply mulch any unit they come into contact with. Tarpitting them also doesn't work, as they have too many attacks at too high an initiative. The only way I could see tarpitting wraiths working is with Tyranids' 30-strong broods of gaunts, as those are cost-effective enough to be expendable, and for the same price as a unit of wraiths, you con have another 30-stong brood waiting to charge after the first is eliminated.

I suppose at ~43 points a Coil Wraith is about as durable to AP4 as a 3x Tac Marines. 18 S4 hits;

18(1/2)(1/3) = 18/6 = 3 (3x Dead Tacs)
18(1/3)(1/3) = 18/9 = 2 (1x Dead Wraith)

I play vs crons alot... I don't think theres a specific counter to them. But they are slow (other than wraiths) heavy flamers seem to do pretty well in my experience but there is little way through the RP even if you ID them, theyre still pretty tough... Grab the objectives before them, tie them up in some other area of the board and just make them chase you!

Yeah Imperial Guard has them, it's called out of LOS Manticore Blasts and Basilisk shots.

It's really annoying reduces the RP of saves and is a high enough ST to Instant Death models.

Things I hate fighting

1. Wraithknights
2. Manticores and out LOS ST10
3. Anything with Invisibility

Hollismason wrote:
Yeah Imperial Guard has them, it's called out of LOS Manticore Blasts and Basilisk shots.

Basilisks have a gigantic minimum range of most of the board however, and give up a lot over an AV14 Russ to get that Barrage capability. Manticores are ok, but are only really effective against Warriors and Flayed ones. Against anything else, all it's doing is subtracting 1 from RP for the most part, and ID'ing Wraiths that fail their 3++ Invul (and 5+ RP if in Decurion). They *can* do something, but aren't exactly spectacularly effective at 170pts a pop and useless after turn 4.

 Vector Strike wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

This. I can handle AV 13's fine, but it's the 20 man blobs with 4+ RP that are killing me. I can't keep them down.

I think only melee is a good answer to that. As long as you bring at least AP4 (power maul), they'll eventually lose combat AND initiative.

If they have a zealot/fearless guy involved... don't melee them with elite people

Or, if you're talking about Flayed ones... no melee unless you're T9

Melee would be a good option, but even then I've seen Necrons own in that department. I've been charged by 5 bloodcrushers with only my 9 warriors and some non-combat characters, popped a res orb, and tied combat the turn they charged. Same thing with a squad of Ork Nobz and a warboss. Heck, even 10 of my Flayed Ones took on a 10 man squad of Khorne Berserkers with Chain Axes and held them up for like, 3 turns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:


This. I can handle AV 13's fine, but it's the 20 man blobs with 4+ RP that are killing me. I can't keep them down.

Yup, my guard friend has said the same thing. It's a blessing when I decide to play a few more vehicles in a list.

So DA Dakka Banner doesn't cut the cheese?

 TheNewBlood wrote:
I may be a new player, but I have played against the new Necrons and have some thoughts as to dealing with them.

First, treat them as you would any specialist army: focus all your army's firepower on one unit at a time, and they will crumble.

Second, target priority is critical. Kill the most dangerous unit(s) first. In most cases, this is the unit closest to your own models.

Third, stay mobile. Necrons can be mobile, but only in short bursts (apart from Tomb Blades, but they are a distraction unit to be ignored). Going back to the second point, Necrons don't do long range firepower, apart from a couple units. Kite them around the board and contest their backfield objectives. The necron player will have to choose between slowly advancing to take objectives to backtracking onto his own.

As far as wraiths go, I've found that shooting them to death is the best and most viable option. Massed S5/6/7 shots will force the necron player to roll saves, and wraiths fail as often as any 3+ save. Massed snipers and/or poison shots also work well.

As for melee, it works well against Necron Warriors/Immortals, but not wraiths. Unless you have a unit that hits at I6 or better with massed S5 or better attacks with insane WS, you won't be able to kill them. They simply mulch any unit they come into contact with. Tarpitting them also doesn't work, as they have too many attacks at too high an initiative. The only way I could see tarpitting wraiths working is with Tyranids' 30-strong broods of gaunts, as those are cost-effective enough to be expendable, and for the same price as a unit of wraiths, you con have another 30-stong brood waiting to charge after the first is eliminated.

I don't want it to seem like I'm arguing just for the sake of arguing, and I don't want to constantly talk up Necrons, as some of you might think I'm doing, but I would like to add my 2 cents here from my experiences with the 10 games I've played so far.

First, my friend fired 2000 points into my squad of Wraiths for 2 turns, still couldn't kill them all. And another friend fired manticore shots into my warriors in another game, did 17 wounds, lost 5 models. now, it is a sound strategy to focus fire, just not as much as it was in the previous codex. They're just that resilient in the Decurion, at least with how I've played them.

Second, same as the first, Wraiths/praetorians will typically be the first scary thing you want to shoot at, but again, not really point-n-click killable.

Third, Necrons have a ton of mobility, especially depending on your local meta. I've used Monoliths 3 times now, and they have proved extremely useful for getting blobs wherever you want on the board. Tomb Blades are great, Wraiths and Praetorians will threaten things very quickly, almost anything can take a Night Scythe (36" move, 6" Disembark is needed to get anywhere you want), Destroyers can kite units themselves, as well as Deep Strike, along with Flayed Ones and Deathmarks. Necrons have more mobility than people give them credit for. Also, my Tau friend kited me for most of the game, and by turn 5 I cornered him and wiped him off the board.

As far as massed S5/6/7 shooting, my friend fired nothing but twin-linked missile pods at my Wraiths for those couple of turns. Just putting that out there.

Also, see my other posts as to how melee can be won easily with Warriors/immortals. I'm not meaning to downplay strategies, but from my experience it's not as easy as everyone makes it seem.

 Filch wrote:
So DA Dakka Banner doesn't cut the cheese?

Is this serious? Bolters aren't even AP 5. I think general SM with Grav Centurions have a better chance against Cron Hordes than Dakka Banners.

 Filch wrote:
So DA Dakka Banner doesn't cut the cheese?

When did it ever?

The army has a problem with really high toughness models that also have a good armour save, Wraith Knights , Rip Tides ,etc..

Sweeping them in mellee can work if you can simultaniusly get rid of wraiths somehow. Be it tarpitting or shooting them to death. Shooting is an option but they're dead hard - especially with 4+++ from a spiderman.

Martel732 wrote:

 Filch wrote:
So DA Dakka Banner doesn't cut the cheese?

When did it ever?

In the magic land where DA are overpowered and mowing down Eldar and Knights left and right. Oh, and winning the BAO

What update are you using so you can play with Spider Man in your list thanks .

Martel732 wrote:

 Filch wrote:
So DA Dakka Banner doesn't cut the cheese?

When did it ever?

Ravenwing used to be SAVAGE against wraithwing-- a rad grenade to drop them to toughness not much then 24-48 bolter shots. Before the RP and T buff that wraiths got, the RW used to be able to cripple a squad a turn, if not completely wipe them. They were tough, but that's a butt-ton of bolter shots to take to the face at reduced toughness.

Ravenwing still do have a bunch of blinding tricks-- and Blinding remains a pretty good tactic against crons since their initiative is usually pretty lousy. But its a pretty tough battle now. Plus, if they bring any kind of airplane... sad times unless you splurged for some forgeworld stuff.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
The necrons are going to swing the meta hard towards heavier weapons. Av13 and the rp rolls means you want more str8+ in the army, which is a huge changes from the massed str6/7 you see now. People taking flyrants for their killing potential only are going to be VERY disappointed if they run into a Necron decurion.

Dunno, according to very confident people, 5 flyrants will still wreck a Decurion. *cough*no it wont*cough*


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ffyllotek wrote:
Three squads of two lascannon units for the vehicles. Lascannons wreck AV13.

Yes, and how many people have been playing AV13 spam since the new codex? Everyone is using Destroyers or Wraiths, all of which shrug off lascannons with ease.

Flynids wreck my crons hard. Everytime. I usualy lose with crons. Against tournament lists i still find it hard to manage a win