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Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Got the codex but not seeing any HQ choices. Am I reading right that they dont have them?
Loving the short/medium range guns and all the special abilities. My guard cant wait to have them as allies

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/11 21:39:30


clively wrote:
"EVIL INC" - hardly. More like "REASONABLE GOOD GUY INC". (side note: exalted)

Seems a few of you have not read this... http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 EVIL INC wrote:
Got the codex but not seeing any HQ choices. Am I reading right that they dont have them?

That appears to be the case, yes.

 
   
Made in au
Screaming Shining Spear





Western Australia

Correct - you are either going to have to run them using 1 of their formations or is the skitarii specific detachment

For gaming, hobby and events in Perth, Western Australia - https://objectivesecured.com.au 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






Remarkably, there isn't all the hate we saw when the same thing happened with the Harlequins

Edit: I'm not sure that made sense. I mean, people don't seem to have reacted as badly to Skitarii not having HQs as they did with Harlequins not having HQs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/11 09:25:51


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





The Rock

Not having HQ choices doesn't really matter since pretty much anybody can be your Warlord.

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How to take decent photos of your models
There's a beast in every man, and it stirs when you put a sword in his hand
Most importantly, Win or Lose, always try to have fun.
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Made in gb
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

 Talys wrote:
Remarkably, there isn't all the hate we saw when the same thing happened with the Harlequins

Edit: I'm not sure that made sense. I mean, people don't seem to have reacted as badly to Skitarii not having HQs as they did with Harlequins not having HQs.


There was still quite a bit in the rumour thread.
   
Made in au
Screaming Shining Spear





Western Australia

There are also far less restrictions for skitarii detachments so the minimums required are easier to deal with and less of a tax

For gaming, hobby and events in Perth, Western Australia - https://objectivesecured.com.au 
   
Made in gb
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

 Talys wrote:
Remarkably, there isn't all the hate we saw when the same thing happened with the Harlequins

Edit: I'm not sure that made sense. I mean, people don't seem to have reacted as badly to Skitarii not having HQs as they did with Harlequins not having HQs.


Largely because the minimum requirement for bringing in the Skitarii detachment is 2 5-man Troop squads, which can be built for a single kit. This then unlocks 2FA, 6 more Troops, 4HS and 3 Elites, so the 'tax' to get what you want it pretty minimal.

Compare that to Harlies, where your only options are confused/limited formations or a minimum requirement that is far larger: 3 boxes of Troops, 2FA and 1 HS before you can even look at adding more.

As an Unbound-happy player this doesn't bother me so much, but I can see how it would, and why it's much easier to add Bound Skitarii than Harlies.

 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Talys wrote:
Remarkably, there isn't all the hate we saw when the same thing happened with the Harlequins

Edit: I'm not sure that made sense. I mean, people don't seem to have reacted as badly to Skitarii not having HQs as they did with Harlequins not having HQs.

It's not as much of a surprise the second time around.

 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph





'Straya... Mate.

 insaniak wrote:
 Talys wrote:
Remarkably, there isn't all the hate we saw when the same thing happened with the Harlequins

Edit: I'm not sure that made sense. I mean, people don't seem to have reacted as badly to Skitarii not having HQs as they did with Harlequins not having HQs.

It's not as much of a surprise the second time around.

Just as disappointing though!

 
   
Made in au
Horrific Howling Banshee





Hqs are mostly a tax any way, as you usually have to invest lots of points into them to make them effective. I would much prefer to take another troops choice instead; especially with all their sergeants having 2 wounds and cheap access to invulnerability saves.

Wh40k Eternal Crusade Referral Number: EC-J79JWAXML7RYP 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Vespid wrote:
Hqs are mostly a tax any way, as you usually have to invest lots of points into them to make them effective.

That's long been an issue with GW's games design. Different HQ options for every army should have a direct impact on how the army functions on the table, rather than just being another unit option from a different part of the list.

 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






The Harlequins detachment forced three 95pt Troops, two Fast Attack and a Heavy Support if you wanted to take a Solitaire and multiple Shadowseers in a Battleforged army. The Formatuon that allowed those three models (that Death Jester too) is a friggin joke, banning the models from joining squads. Two models worth taking, the seer is fragile as wet rice paper and the two ways to take them are give your opponent 1st Blood or spend 500+ points on three squads, transports or bikes and some friggin gun boat.

Skitarii Detachment is two Troops, the rest is optional. That's a 110pt 'tax' that is actually good enough to take. No HQ needed when it's as simple as that. The 'hate' was mostly people worried it would be another 'spend most of your army points if you want to use of these' or just people wanting a Tech Priest model specifically.
   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





It also helps that people are now remembering that you can make a warlord out of any Character in an army list thanks to Harlequins.

Even if it's baffling neither have HQ's, Great Harlequins didn't stop being a thing.

Though I suppose Skitarii could be sent messages from afar by tech priests.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/11 13:18:47


 
   
Made in ca
Executing Exarch






 EVIL INC wrote:
Got the codex but not seeing any HQ choices. Am I reading right that they dont have them?
Loving the short/medium range guns and all the special abilities. My guard cant wait to have them as allies


If you are paying attention to the redirect link "rumours" there is another book coming called Cult Mechanicus with electro-priests and data cards. Basically its codex: Skitarii HQ, which fits in line with GWs multi-book split content trend they've been on


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
It also helps that people are now remembering that you can make a warlord out of any Character in an army list thanks to Harlequins.

Even if it's baffling neither have HQ's, Great Harlequins didn't stop being a thing.

Though I suppose Skitarii could be sent messages from afar by tech priests.


To be honest it almost feels its GW continuing to give the finger to tournaments. "Oh you have a 2 source limit? How about an army of formations?" "Oh you have your own forge org and or percentages? Real shame if we made HQ or troopless books" "Oh no lords of war? That's cool, imperial knights are their own battlefield role." It really seems they are doing everything in their power to dash apart the tournament systems, which goes in line with what they are doing with the whole "We sell collectibles" thing despite it being an excuse to sell plastic way above its worth. Rick Priestley even said in a recent interview that they have completely abandoned the game. And really the game doesn't work in its unrestricted unfiltered format.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/11 13:26:44


Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





That might be the dumbest decision they've ever made, and that's saying a lot. The tournament players are the ones spending the most money to keep their armies updated and even switch factions just for a certain tournament. Also, you can play a casual game with a tournament ruleset without any problems. Playing a tournament game with a casual ruleset is much more difficult. Everyone benefits from a tight, balanced and consistent ruleset. I was planning on spending tons of money on ad mech...if they did them properly. Of course they had to screw up a great idea with terrible execution once again. Robocop imperial guardsmen, mechanized chickens, no HQ and some weird spider that looks like a transformers reject weren't quite what I had in mind. To see how mechanicum looks when done properly, check out the archmagos, castellax, vorax and thanatar over at forge world.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan




Homestead, FL

What are you guys talking about? I have the new codex as well and I found the HQ section easy enough... Here, here is a picture of the new Mechanicum HQ Choice.



I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Talys wrote:
Remarkably, there isn't all the hate we saw when the same thing happened with the Harlequins

Edit: I'm not sure that made sense. I mean, people don't seem to have reacted as badly to Skitarii not having HQs as they did with Harlequins not having HQs.


Thats because the cheapest harlequin detachment is over 100$ of models and you get no choice as to which ones, and the Harlequins are a cc focused army so your warlord is going to be getting all up in everyone's business and he's nothing but a glorified sergeant (standard +1ws+1bs+1wound over normal model....so T3 5++ is all he's got). And the only model who might be semi-worthwhile to get as a warlord, just as insult to injury...doesn't get a trait if you choose him as the warlord. Because screw you. your ONLY options for warlords who get traits are all T3 W2 5++ squishy squashy bodies. Its right in his special rules.

The skiitari can at the very least make their Sergeantlord the guy sitting at the back firing the 2 60" sniper weapons, and their CAD detachment is "Get one 40$ box of skiitari. You've got a skiitari detachment! Oh also take as much of the other stuff as you want btw have fun!" while the Harlequin CAD detachment (this is the lenient one) is "Three mandatory troops (3x 40$), 2 mandatory fast attack (2x 50$) 1 mandatory EXTREMELY gakky heavy support (1x50$ and the most painful purchase you'll ever make) and now the only optional thing you have is 7x elites."

Their CAD Detachment has SIX MANDATORY SLOTS. the skiitari one is TWO, and they're 5-man minimum squads with a 10-man troop box.

That contains the full rules of that troop so you dont have to buy a codex if you know you've got a detachment.

This is why skiitari players are happy and harlequin players are pissed off.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

While no HQ is surprising, they could have done a lot with techpriests, its more shocking they don't have a LOW slot. I mean, come on! Skitarii are the bubble wrap for Titans!

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






I really wish the Space Marine codex had a FAQ of some kind so I could run a MoTF as a Magos HQ and still get Fast Attack Drop Pods. Now I have to settle for a Blood Angels Techmarine which has a worse statline than the MotF and even has less wounds than a Skitarii Alpha.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 Grey Templar wrote:
While no HQ is surprising, they could have done a lot with techpriests, its more shocking they don't have a LOW slot. I mean, come on! Skitarii are the bubble wrap for Titans!


ya and I think most people won't object to tossing a single titan on the table as technicly unbound. I mean if anyone challanges just point out that if it was a LOW technicly it'd have scout and crusader.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






From the listing in the codex, they just didnt have the option saying you could run them as an army unto itself, only it had different min requirements than normal armies in that they didnt require an hq. What I get out of that is that you can run them as a detatchment or as a formation but that you can also have them as your basic core army.
Of course, I can see them struggling by themselves without "backup".
Edit: That was based on the first skim through. Now seeing that definately they dont have an hq. Wondering how players will accept 4 elite slots and 4 heavy slots at the cost of a single fast attack slot. Cant wait to see how this plays out and to have time to do a serious read through and decide what is the coolest stuff that will go well with my guad. Although I can feel the machines drawing me into a mechanicum army. My wallet is dreading the upcoming full cult mechanicus codex.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I too was expecting tech piests. They COULD have done a lot with them. Heck, not even a basic one is available. hmmmm

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/11 18:19:19


clively wrote:
"EVIL INC" - hardly. More like "REASONABLE GOOD GUY INC". (side note: exalted)

Seems a few of you have not read this... http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor






If people are willing to homebrew a little, you could insert some of the HQs from the 30K AdMech army.

BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.

I’m updating that fandex now & I’m eager for feedback on new home-brew units for the Sisters: Sororitas Bikers, infiltrators & Novices, tanks, flyers, characters, superheavies, Frateris Militia, and now Confessors and Battle Conclave characters
My Novice Ginevra stories start with Bolter B-Word Privileges 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight





Raleigh, NC

I'm pretty positive we're just getting another Codex: Militarum Tempestus situation again, where the other book will contain pretty much everything. Although at least this time around, GW managed to price the Skitarii book a little more fairly...

But now that I'm thinking about it, it seems the goal might be to sell two rulebooks for one overall army (should the Skitarii book have things the AM book does not), effectively moving the cost of rules for one army from $50 up to $70 (without the whole being "forced" to buy it argument).

Well, I'm not that plussed about it right now, although I was hoping GW had learned a lesson from the C:MT days.
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






The lower price was the deciding factor for me. But beyond that, i am expecting another tempestus thing. i never got that one due to price but I'm thinking that at least the skitarii seem to be a lil better in terms of effectiveness.
Note, if they were to lower the price on the tempestus, I might be tempted to get it after all...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/11 18:36:58


clively wrote:
"EVIL INC" - hardly. More like "REASONABLE GOOD GUY INC". (side note: exalted)

Seems a few of you have not read this... http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The Harlequin detachment is pretty restrictive, but if you want to ally them in for specific models, you certainly can. They even made a formation to allow you to just run want the eldar and dark eldar had access to before, so you didn't even have to but any new models. Also, the troupe masters have a 2+ look out sir, and an option for a 3+ invuln save just for running in the shooting phase (which you should always be doing) that goes a long way towards survivability. Their primaris ability for phantasmancy makes you IMMUNE to shots form over 24" away.

I've been playing them almost weekly since they released the white dwarfs with their stats, they are surprisingly strong, and more flexible than you would think.

   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight





Raleigh, NC

 EVIL INC wrote:
The lower price was the deciding factor for me. But beyond that, i am expecting another tempestus thing. i never got that one due to price but I'm thinking that at least the skitarii seem to be a lil better in terms of effectiveness.
Note, if they were to lower the price on the tempestus, I might be tempted to get it after all...



Yeah, I agree that C:MT should have been priced more like the Skitarii book. IMO, if they dropped the core rulebooks back to $40 and these supplement size books to $25-30, and then offered competitive-pricing for the online-versions of the codexes, I doubt you would see much in the way of complaints via rules. Heck, the accelerated rules cycle would probably be much less of a topic as well.

I sure know I'd pick up this Skitarii book if it was in that $25-30 range. But with the knowledge that there's another book to come (which will probably be almost entirely superior to this book), I'm not so keen on just dumping the $35. So I say good step forward, and hopefully it's a sign of positive moment.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/11 19:32:41


 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






Thinking on it...
I can understand the no hq to a degree....
1. The use of tech priests might be "stepping on the toes" of the cult codex. Keeping the skitarii as an army would be a way of covering things that the cult doesnt want to send a whole huge lot out. Allows them to mix with other "armies" without giving away too much information or secrets themselves. Maybe as "scouts" to gather information for a later full cult force to tailer needs for. many ways to tie it in, but also I think to reinforce the faceless mechanical image to get away from the "hero" model other armies have for their hq. Skitarrii just dont have enough personality left to be very heroic and arent high enough in the hierarchy to warrent techs to waste their time with.
Although, I still think the addition of "minor functionary" or adepts in training, maybe even adepts in punishment would have been a decent addition.

clively wrote:
"EVIL INC" - hardly. More like "REASONABLE GOOD GUY INC". (side note: exalted)

Seems a few of you have not read this... http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp 
   
Made in fi
Confessor Of Sins




 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Though I suppose Skitarii could be sent messages from afar by tech priests.


That's exactly how the codex describes it. The Skitarii land and secure the tech while their masters follow it all from orbit, sending new instructions if necessary. The TechPriests count enemy shots by throwing formation after formation into the battle, then commence the real fight and wipe out all resistance once they have all the variables pinned down.
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






So is there no wat for skitarri to get objective secured?

warhammer 40k mmo. If I can drive an ork trukk into the back of a space marine dread and explode in a fireball of epic, I can die happy!

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