Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My friend and I are having a bit of a debate. He used to be a raven guard player and has all his guys painted up as such. He was taking a lot of losses with his ravenguard. And is now playing them count-as Iron Hands. He also went and bought himself an Imperial Knight, some Imperial Guard, and a couple storm talons to add to the storm raven he already owned.

He uses the following units in almost every list he makes.
Imperial Knight Errant (every single list without exception)
Chapter Master on bike with Hammer + Shield Eternal (frequently)
Space Marine Stormwing Formation (almost every list until recently when we found out that he does NOT gain iron hands chapter tactic benefits)
3 Leman Russ Battle Tanks (when using IG)

He claims that he is being a fluffy player. Using SM + AM + Imperial Knight is very fluffy. I tell him that he is most definetly a power gamer and should just embrace it for what it is instead of being in denial about it.

So what do the rest of you think? Fluff player or Power Gamer?

Neither of these options are mutually exclusive.

You can have a power list thats super fluffy, just look at Eldar!

Jokes aside, it seems like he could be either, guard are great for fluff and to also bolster SM with their numbers, and a knight is just badass.

I mean, it's not fluffy, but it's not like the list is Serpent Spam. Commander Smashfether is not fluffy though, by any means. And turning a Raven Guard list, which I would assume has a decent number of Jump Packs, into Iron Hands who have a decent number of Master of the Forges and Techmarines, doesn't easily swap out. How many Dreadnaughts? None? Then it's not fluffy Iron Hands who yearn for the honor of being put into a Dreadnaught chassis after 'death'.

But, he's also not a power gamer if that's all he is bringing. The list sounds difficult, sure, but still very appropriate for casual games. I voted Power simply because it's closer to that end of the spectrum but I would still say it's solidly in the middle of the two stereotypes.

As others have said, fluff bunny and power gamer.aren't mutually exclusive.

Sounds like he's a bit of both. He seems to play what he likes (IoM armies) while still trying to build a good list out of it.

I voted fluff, but he's really in the middle.

Although, if he's using literally any units as "counts-as" rather than what they're clearly painted as, it's clear he wants the bonuses a different group gets vs what he originally made em as, and that definitely makes me lean toward calling him a power gamer.

I dunno, most power gamers pick much more specific tactics lists overall to play though. Maybe that makes him a bad power gamer. *shrugs*

I chose other.

He likes to have effective lists he can win with, but clearly cares about the fluff aspect as well.

Yes. I make my army work as well as it can within my idealized fluffy idea of them.

He's definitely not a fluffy player. He's not entirely a power gamer, but is closer to that end of the spectrum. It's a spectrum, not a "black and white there are only two options" sort of thing.

I'd rather see a good list from my opponent while being fluffiy than a terrible list that poses no real challenge

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Commander Smashfether is not fluffy though, by any means.

Why not?

 Peregrine wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Commander Smashfether is not fluffy though, by any means.

Why not?

Because Iron Hands don't have a Chapter Master. They have a Council of Iron Fathers as far as I know. Their tabletop equivalent would be closer to a Master of the Forge, not a Chapter Master with a Hammer on a Bike.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Because Iron Hands don't have a Chapter Master. They have a Council of Iron Fathers as far as I know. Their tabletop equivalent would be closer to a Master of the Forge, not a Chapter Master with a Hammer on a Bike.

Therefore the model is using the chapter master rules to represent a member of the council, just like GW encourages you to use the rules for named characters to represent your own chapter's version of that character.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Commander Smashfether is not fluffy though, by any means.

Why not?

Because Iron Hands don't have a Chapter Master. They have a Council of Iron Fathers as far as I know. Their tabletop equivalent would be closer to a Master of the Forge, not a Chapter Master with a Hammer on a Bike.

Pretty sure they changed it in Clan Raukaan and they do have a chapter master... I know people weren't happy with it.

He's both. Using multiple Imperial detachments together is absolutely fluffy. He's also doing it in a way that maximizes his competitiveness.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Commander Smashfether is not fluffy though, by any means.

Why not?

Because Iron Hands don't have a Chapter Master. They have a Council of Iron Fathers as far as I know. Their tabletop equivalent would be closer to a Master of the Forge, not a Chapter Master with a Hammer on a Bike.

Smasfether is still fluffy if you just say he is a Clan Commander. Also, the Iron Council sometimes does elect a War Leader who is a de-facto Chapter Master. Also, an Iron Father is a combination of Chaplain and Techmarine. They are not really represented by any model.
The list is fluffy as everything on it is something you'd find in a IH army. It is not super fluffy though, just ordinary.

I like the middle road. Sometimes I field lists just to test something, others with appraise for fluff.

I voted power, because I hate seeing models painted as Ultramarines that use Imperial Fists chapter tactics, or (as in this case) Raven Guard as Iron Hands.

In fact, if he cared about the fluff, he should feel insulted - Iron Hands absolutely abhor the Raven Guard for the debacle at Istavaan.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I voted power, because I hate seeing models painted as Ultramarines that use Imperial Fists chapter tactics, or (as in this case) Raven Guard as Iron Hands.

In fact, if he cared about the fluff, he should feel insulted - Iron Hands absolutely abhor the Raven Guard for the debacle at Istavaan.

Same here. Repainting them as Iron Hands is the same thing IMO.

As others have said there are degrees of Fluff bunny/powergamerdom. Heck, even stuff that's unfluffy as feth like DE allied with Slaaneshi Daemons is justified by the fluff.

His fluffy list wasn't powerful. So he kept the fluff and made it powerful.

I voted fluffy because it seems to me that he only stepped up his forces after getting repeated losses.

So i think he's trying to keep up with his local meta, but not nessecarily WAAC.

I think he is still a fluff player. Yes he advanced his force, and is making use of the rules that he thinks will benefit his army, but if he still has a theme for his army, a story behind it and calls them by the same force, then yea that's fluffy.

But I also agree the two aren't mutually exclusive. Somebody can be both of these.

Being a fluff player doesn't mean you always have to make poor choices in unit selection. It doesn't mean you should lose most of your games. It just means you have a story behind your army and base it on either your own writing or the 40k lore.

Between the Fluff end and Power end of the spectrum, your friend (you?) are more fluffy than power. Power gamers take things that would never be together in the fluff, and cram them together to maximize their buff/bonuses/special rules. My Sentinels of Terra army is put together according to the "Crusade of Thunder" unit list, which means I have one Libby, one Techmarine, one LRC, one TFC, etc. I won't take more, even if they would help me, because the Imperial Fists' third company didn't have them during the "Crusade of Thunder". That is not to say I don't ally with other IoM armies for effect. I run Inquisition/Sentinels of Terra; Sentinels of Terra/Militarum Tempestus; Inquisition/Militarum Tempestus; and so on. That does not make my Sentinels any less fluffy...just a little more effective.

I'd say it's his army and without being able to actually read his mind, we will never know.
Different players view the same fluff in different ways. I can see where his army would be entirely fluffy but it could also be that he is a power gamer whose chose armies whose fluff matched to make it a fluff bunny army.
Either way, its a game and you have an opponent so it doesnt really make a difference. I would be insulted if someone were to seriously accuse me of being a power gamer just because my fluffy army is powerful. I'm hoping your just engaging in friendly banter with him.

I understand what Lynkon is saying here.

I have a friend who runs Tyranids with an allied Knight and an allied Culexus Assassin.

It's a bit odd.