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I believe that if all the rumors are true I am just going to use the old 6th edition codex in casual games. And in competitive tournaments lets face it everyone who wants to win will be running Eldar, so i will have to use 7th. So what is your solution to the new Eldar Codex?

Mine is quite shocking - I'm going to actually reserve my full judgement of the book until after I've actually played a few games against it...

Is it likely that a list running 30+ Scatlas Bikes + 2-3 Wriathknights + 1-2 Wraithguard in Serpents going to be stupidly good and not fun in the least? Probably.
Do I have to give a donkeycave running that list in casual games just to troll opponents the time of day? No... I'll find some decent human being who's penis size isn't tied to curbstomping at toy soldiers.

im not sure yet but I was having discussion with my friend about it last night.

ranged D will definitely change, will use new wave serpent rules.

will be using the new aspect rules, but nothing has been set in stone until we look at the book together on Friday.

bikes will be magnetized for weapon options so loadout can change depending on the game (casual or competitive)

reserving full judgement also until I use this book but I wont be running 30 bikes or multiple knights unless playing apoc

Just wont play against eldar or necrons until my books get updated. Tournaments can not be taken seriously right now anyways. With invis +reroll2++, decurion, and now eldar armies bringing 40+ scatter lasers on mobile bikes, plus full armies of titans and FMC with nova powers - there is no such thing as generalship anyways.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Just wont play against eldar or necrons until my books get updated. Tournaments can not be taken seriously right now anyways. With invis +reroll2++, decurion, and now eldar armies bringing 40+ scatter lasers on mobile bikes, plus full armies of titans and FMC with nova powers - there is no such thing as generalship anyways.

can your friends not play with out spamming bikes or wraiths or is that impossible ?

you just flat out push players out the game ?

good solution

if you only play in the competitive scene I will shut up

 RED EYE JEDI wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Just wont play against eldar or necrons until my books get updated. Tournaments can not be taken seriously right now anyways. With invis +reroll2++, decurion, and now eldar armies bringing 40+ scatter lasers on mobile bikes, plus full armies of titans and FMC with nova powers - there is no such thing as generalship anyways.

can your friends not play with out spamming bikes or wraiths or is that impossible ?

you just flat out push players out the game ?

good solution

if you only play in the competitive scene I will shut up

I get the impression that Xenomancer mostly plays tournament games, in which case he doesn't really have the option of negotiating lists with people in advance.

Personally, the new rules won't be too terrifying for me. I have neither wraith guard nor wraith knights nor guardian bikers, and even if I got bikers, I'd simply refrain from having more than 1 in 3 of my weapons be heavy. I'm not completely sold that the d-weapons are as terrifying as people say yet. They're nasty against land raiders (but so is haywire and melta) and against MCs, but I get the impression most people aren't running land raiders, and having a way to drop dreadknights, wraith knights, tides, etc. doesn't seem so awful. Though that might just be my naive lack of experience with destroyer weapons speaking.

Personally, I usually use largely unmounted lists with a healthy blend of aspect warriors, rangers, sometimes guardians, wraithlords, and war walkers. Some of the rumors for the new rules (like automatic 6s to run) sound like they'll do wonders for my footdar! Others, like the potentially BS5 dark reapers, sound a bit too strong, but I'll give them a try before dismissing them.

Honestly, most of the units that we've had leaked sound pretty cool. The new scorpions sound like a solid choice without being game breaking. Hawks being able to haywire flyers is something I've been wanting for a while, even if the rumor that skyleap is gone is disappointing. Banshees with the ability to auto-run 6" plus their extra 3" are effectively moving 15" turn one. That almost makes them sound viable for fun games! Serpents got a pretty reasonable nerf too. The abusable stuff that we know about sounds really abusable, but that's only a couple of units in the book. If saim-hann players simply don't go to the trouble of collecting a ton of spare scatter laser and shuriken canon bits to put on their bikes, then they'll be fine. Shuripult bikes with cannons mixed in will still be powerful, but not impossible to deal with. Iyanden players will pack a punch, but their wraith units will do the same way they did before (powerfists, poison, etc.)

That's what I don't get. Everyone is talking like it's mandatory for the Eldar players to field only the powerful stuff. If those are the kind of people you game with then the codex isn't your main problem.

I'm not going to change my Eldar list just because new things are powerful. I'm going to run my Siam Hann like always. One shuriken cannon per 3 bikes. No wraith units of any kind. One or two wave serpents. Pretty simple.

I don't play in tournaments so that's not a concern. I like building my armies according to the fluff. And most tournament armies definitely don't follow that.

Oh and I've been fielding vypers ever since I started my Siam Hann Eldar in 3rd edition.

 Farseer Will wrote:
I believe that if all the rumors are true I am just going to use the old 6th edition codex in casual games. And in competitive tournaments lets face it everyone who wants to win will be running Eldar, so i will have to use 7th. So what is your solution to the new Eldar Codex?

Problem is the 6th Ed Wave Serpent was broken - the 7th Ed Codex just breaks everything else - in particular Wraith Knights.

We may look at using the Aspect Warrior stuff in our games but not the every bike has a heavy weapon or ranged D weapon nonsense.

yellowfever wrote:
That's what I don't get. Everyone is talking like it's mandatory for the Eldar players to field only the powerful stuff. If those are the kind of people you game with then the codex isn't your main problem.

I'm not going to change my Eldar list just because new things are powerful. I'm going to run my Siam Hann like always. One shuriken cannon per 3 bikes. No wraith units of any kind. One or two wave serpents. Pretty simple.

I don't play in tournaments so that's not a concern. I like building my armies according to the fluff. And most tournament armies definitely don't follow that.

It's not mandatory that they take all the most powerful units; Eldar players generally take the most powerful units. I haven't played a single Eldar player who has brought anything less than 3 wave serpents and WKs to a game. Even at 1250 points, 3 wave serpents and a WK. You, sir, are the exception, if you were in my meta.

My solution is that I am done with 40k. I made a terrible decision 3 years ago to get into this game (CSM), and it's time to get out before I spend another $5000 on models. This post was provocative, though. Good luck to everyone, enjoy this terribly unbalanced game.

 RED EYE JEDI wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Just wont play against eldar or necrons until my books get updated. Tournaments can not be taken seriously right now anyways. With invis +reroll2++, decurion, and now eldar armies bringing 40+ scatter lasers on mobile bikes, plus full armies of titans and FMC with nova powers - there is no such thing as generalship anyways.

can your friends not play with out spamming bikes or wraiths or is that impossible ?

you just flat out push players out the game ?

good solution

if you only play in the competitive scene I will shut up

I guess you could say I play in a competitive meta. People aren't intentionally gimping their chances to win is all I'm saying. For me winning is important - or at least having a chance to win - I lose plenty without ever not having fun. It stops being fun when - you know you can't win - or even when you know you can't lose. Even without the addition of decurion and new eldar - the game was already in a horrible place of balance but at least you could expect to win sometimes even against super powerful lists. I've beat a tourney daemons list to the ground before with DA for crying out loud. This new stuff though - winning is a mathematical impossibility. I wont play a game vs an army I can't possibly beat (which means unless I'm playing necrons or eldar - I wont be playing tournaments)- not until the table is leveled. Like when my marines can each have a rocket launcher for 10 points then I'll consider it.

Well then like I said in my previous post. If someone is playing people like that then the codex isn't their main problem.

cm32 wrote:

yellowfever wrote:
That's what I don't get. Everyone is talking like it's mandatory for the Eldar players to field only the powerful stuff. If those are the kind of people you game with then the codex isn't your main problem.

I'm not going to change my Eldar list just because new things are powerful. I'm going to run my Siam Hann like always. One shuriken cannon per 3 bikes. No wraith units of any kind. One or two wave serpents. Pretty simple.

I don't play in tournaments so that's not a concern. I like building my armies according to the fluff. And most tournament armies definitely don't follow that.

It's not mandatory that they take all the most powerful units; Eldar players generally take the most powerful units. I haven't played a single Eldar player who has brought anything less than 3 wave serpents and WKs to a game. Even at 1250 points, 3 wave serpents and a WK. You, sir, are the exception, if you were in my meta.

My solution is that I am done with 40k. I made a terrible decision 3 years ago to get into this game (CSM), and it's time to get out before I spend another $5000 on models. This post was provocative, though. Good luck to everyone, enjoy this terribly unbalanced game.

Sounds like you're playing with either jerks or people who simply enjoy a more competitive style of game. The solution there is to ask them to tone it down a bit. You'd have much more fun in my local group where people only bring the cheesy stuff when they've specifically agreed to play in preparation of a tournament. I'm one of two main eldar players, and my lists rarely feature a single serpent these days and never feature a wraith knight. The other eldar player usually has a serpent or two and sometimes a single wraithknight, but the core of his army are rangers and Illic.

That said, it's easy to "accidentally" make a very powerful eldar list with the 6th edition book. Running footdar is tricky, so many people prefer to protect their eldar with transports. The only dedicated transport is the serpent, so people tend to take those. The wraithknight is a cool model, so many people wanted to pick one up (some because of its rules, some without regards to them),and once you buy such an expensive model, you're inclined to use it. With the new book, the broken things and their solutions are as follows:

Wraith Knight: Maybe back off on the ranged d-weapons. The d-sword seems like it's mostly there to hunt other big stuff with. Which seems fine.

Jetbikes: If you've been collecting them for a while now, you're accustomed to there being one heavy weapon per three bikes. Stick to that rule of thumb, and your army will remain powerful, interesting, and fun to play. Just don't spam abusable numbers of heavy weapons. It actually takes more time and effort for you to gather up and glue on all these extra heavy weapons that it would to simply use a "balanced" squad of them.

Wraith Guard: Honestly, I'm not sure these guys are going to perform very differently from before. Webway wraithbombs (wraithway bombs) are already quite good and have a solid chance of killing most big things. Wraithcannons aren't great against swarms and will continue to not be great. Wraithguard in general aren't stellar in close combat, and should still lose against a squad of tacs with a powerfist sergeant. They're a counter to knights and superheavy stuff. do we not want a counter to knights and super heavy stuff? d-scythes are pretty nasty though, so maybe just avoid fielding that particular gun?

Um. Are there any others? Maybe the vaul batteries as they have a d-cannon? They're 24" artillery. Either move in and charge stuff fast enough to not have to worry about them, or take the time to take the guns down. Snipers can kill a couple crewman and have reasonable odds to make them run. Barrage weapons can "snipe" out crewman to make the guns useless. Splinter cannons will make short work of them. Lots of options here.

I'm not going to go out and buy a new Eldar army just because the rules changed. I have 20 wraithguard (10 with d cannons, 5 blades, 5 scythes) and they will still see the table. I don't use WWP archons so my guard are mostly walking...pretty easy to stay away and just shoot them. I play wraithlords too (unlike many) and my knight is not equipped with d weapons (suncannon/scattershield). My other units are either Harlequins or Dark Eldar wyches.....so I'm not concerned with my group trying to ban my army, it's pretty tame.

I would like to keep playing my Iyanden and apparently that isn't so easy to do with the new codex so may as well stick with that instead of replacing both books with this new one.

I'll look at it and actually make my own opinion based on it, but as my army is with so many SD I could understand the kneejerk reactions which would probably cost me games if I were to run them with the new book.

I'm actually shocked at how much support Eldar players are giving to ideas of nerfing their play.

cudos to you honest guys who realize that this can severely impact your play.

the couple of guys in my meta are considering not playing or buying the book because theyre sure no one will want to play them

 Johnnytorrance wrote:
I'm actually shocked at how much support Eldar players are giving to ideas of nerfing their play.

cudos to you honest guys who realize that this can severely impact your play.

the couple of guys in my meta are considering not playing or buying the book because theyre sure no one will want to play them

So many are thinking about it that there's already a big thread on it.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/645031.page

Sadly i am a Eldar player, i play wraithgaurd lists( fluffy), for me i will be going to the new Wraith formation but going to make a house rule make it 2 wraith lord instread of 1 lord and a knight.

I have always Floot Slogged my Wraithgaurd/blades across the feild got shot up heavly cause of it and in my entire eldar force i only have 1 wave serpent/fire prism most as back up.

As for the Wraithgaurd guns. i will just use the old Distort rules and S/AP for the guns since they seemed fine to me.