Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello DakkaDakka. This is the first list I've put together on my own that I've had he minis for. It is meant to be a bit fluffy but suggestions to give it a bit more crunch would be appreciated.

HQ
Company Command Squad 90pts
Missile Launcher, Voxcaster, Meltagun

TROOPS
x10 Veterans 95pts
Missile Launcher, Grenade Launchers, Vox

x10 Veterans 95pts
Missile Launcher, Grenade Launchers, Vox

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ Exterminator 150pts
Heavy Flamer, Melta Sponsons

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Chimera 65pts

First of welcome to the guard.

I'm sorry to tell you this but your list sucks. I have been playing guard for 10 years so what I'm about to tell you is from first hand experience.

At 500 points you have to squeeze every point, so drop the voxs. You only need them under two circumstances. If you are playing 1500 points and if you are going pure infantry.

Also with guard you have to decide if you want pure tanks or infantry. If you mix you will not have enough of either.

With that in mind here are two lists you aim for before you spend any more money.

List 1.
Tank commander in leman russ battle tank
bodyguard in leman russ battle tank

vet squad
vet squad

40 points spare.
This list is cheesetastic.

List 2.

Lord commissar

2x platoon
PCS with mortar
2x Infantry squad with autocannon and grenade launcher

30 conscripts

20 points spare.
At 500 points you have 81 infantry and lots of firepower. Heavy armour is only going to come from other guard players so serious anti tank isn't an issue.

Hope this helps, I typed this on my phone so sorry if it comes off as short and sharp.

Thanks for the feedback. I've only played a few games so I'm still uncertain with list-building. Does the tank for the first list have to be the Battle Tank or will one of the variants work? Are there any specific upgrades the veterans should take?
I don't think I'll go for the second list as I already have the veterans. I do like the idea of conscripts though.

Edit: Also any more guard advice would be greatly appreciated.

Any variant of tank will work but you have to at least have 2. Vets with grenadiers (4+) armour usually serves me well.

The basic Russ is your best best at this points level as it can handle anything but flyers, and with two of them you can put enough wounds on any 2+ save units you might encounter (but this is unlikely at such low points level).

Like numeon said you have to have 2 otherwise it just doesn't work.

When it comes to Vet upgrades at this level keep them cheap and cheerful, or not at all. Footslogging vets die just as easily as regular guardsmen, even with carapace its still only 20 T3 guys. If you really want to upgrade them I would go camo gear and snipers and sit them in cover plinking away at stuff, but dont expect them to kill more than a model here and there.

Personally if i was to go for upgrades I would use it on the tanks, as they are the core of your whole force. Make your tank commander Pask and put him in a Punisher. This is one of the best units in the Guard codex right now, as when you put Pask in a Punisher he gives the gatling turret rending, and due to his special rule "Crack Shot" you reroll armor penetation rolls with all his shots. On top of this you also get to reroll any to hit rolls of one thanks to his Warlord trait. Add all this together and you have a unit that will just delete anything it can get into range off (including flyers due to volume of dice) and is tough as nails tanks to AV14.

Also you still have 20 points left so you can give the Pask tank a set of bolter or melta sponsons, or both tanks a dozer blade and then the pask tank some flamer sponsons. or both tanks dozer and heavy stubber.

If you do take this unit make sure you use the tank commander order that lets you split fire so that you don't waste any shots from your bodyguard tank.

Hope this helps, but don't blame me if you have no friends after rolling this list out against them! :p

So the general rule of thumb is at least 2 tanks? In terms of losing friends I'm not too worried as the only friend I know who plays was gloating about game not being fun for me since his DEldar would slaughter my guardsmen.

At this points level if you are going tanks then two is a must. at higher points levels you will need more than 2 for sure.

What does he bring in his Dark Eldar list? This list will wreck them so hard if he is not spamming Dark Lances.


The semi competitive tank list that I like to roll out is:

Pask in Punisher with stubber,dozer, melta sponsons and hull heavy bolter.
Bodyguard with same as pask.

2 basic platoons with flamer in each infantry squad and 2 flamers in each platoons command squad, but all mounted in chimeras with dozer, multilaser and heavy flamer

2 Leman Russ Battle Tanks with Heavy bolter sponsons, hull heavy bolter, stubber and dozer each.

1 Demolisher with plasma sponsons, dozer, stubber and hull Lascannon (only really use this loadout on this tank cos it was the first one I ever built, its not really an ideal loadout though).

1 Leman Russ Eradicator with hull heavy bolter, heavy bolter sponsons, heavy stubber, dozer.


On a side note I recently played vs a very competitive DE list and smashed it with footguard in a tournament, so if you are considering foot guard let me know and I will give you the list (:

I'm not sure what he has in his list he made it yesterday and I didn't think to take a peek. I would like a footguard list too just in case I decide to go that route. One of the reasons I chose guard is because I remembered reading about Chenkov in an earlier codex.

Ahhh Chenkov! My favorite character and now he is gone :(

Well tbh you shouldn't list tailor as it makes you a worse player because you don't learn what is a good all round unit or what works well in your list or not on a consistent basis.

But unless your friend is bringing lots of dark lances and blasters he is really gonna struggle. But that does not mean that the tank list is an auto-win it is not, you positioning and movement are really important to try and make sure your front armour is always facing his heavy weapons is key.

On top of this make sure you are using your tank orders as much as possible. the big 2 you will use is the shoot and pop smoke order and the split fire one.

In terms of foot guard list you at 500 points you need about 70 bodies and no less than 60. I know you have veterans but in footguard it is all about the basic platoon guards men.

The basic guard squad load out for a very very long time was the autocannon and grenade launcher combo. It seems to have fallen out of favor in recent years but I personally think that it is one of the best "bang for buck" units, especially at low points levels. for 65 points total you get a 10 man squad that can threaten any but the toughest armour and reliably take a wound or 2 of a space marine squad at long range (and at short range with orders can do much much better)

At 500 points footguard I would run something like:

Company Command Squad: Regimental Standard and Lascannon

Platoon 1:
Command Squad: Mortar
3x Infantry Squad: Autocannon, Grenade Launcher and Sgt with bolter.

Platoon 2:
Command Squad: Mortar
2x Infantry Squad: Autocannon, Grenade Launcher and Sgt with bolter.

5 points left over.

Clocks in at 65 men with lots of long range hard hitting fire power with a good orders network and the Regimental Standard (aka the big fancy flag) will help stop your men from running.

Basic tactic for this list (and foot guard in general) is you need to be moving nearly ever turn as you can only move 6" and still shoot. What you do is you move the squad forward and conga line 2 or 3 men back and keep you heavy weapon stationary, that way it can still fire at full BS, (think of it as providing covering fire whilst the squad moves up)

Hope this helps, let me know if you want any more info

I wouldn't really know how to tailor a list against another so there is that at least. Looking at the footguard list I notice that it has mortars for the platoon command squads and autocannons for the regular infantry. Is that for keeping the PCS at a little bit more distance from the main fight so they don't get completely destroyed? Could you explain the conga line thing a little better? Worst case scenario I can pick up another tank/infantry or just run the original list and get wrecked

Yes having mortars in the PCS is to sit them out of line of site issuing orders and plinking away. They are an easy kill points as they are only 5 men so you want to hide them away and for 5 points they can still contribute to the game.

The conga line is a really sneaky bit of movement but it is well established and perfectly legal rules wise.

imagine you have deployed your men in the formation bellow (o= normal sized infantry, HW = Autocannon team):

oooo
oooo
HW

when you move forward move you men like this:

oooo
oo
o
o
HW

That way the squad can gain ground but the heavy weapon is not snap-shooting because it has technically not moved. Like I said before think of it as the heavy weapon team providing covering fire as the rest of the squad advances,

Hope this explains everything, if it doesn't feel free to ask and I will try and upload some pictures.

Yes that explains it pretty well. I do have a few more questions but aren't really related to either lists. What points level do dedicated transports come into play? What about flyers and fast attack like sentinels?

 Skycrawler wrote:
Yes that explains it pretty well. I do have a few more questions but aren't really related to either lists. What points level do dedicated transports come into play? What about flyers and fast attack like sentinels?

Depends, transports are usually in a 500 point army as mobility is still pretty clutch on a 6x4 table. Flyers can be seen at 500 points (albeit a dick-move), but are usually relegated to 1k and above. And sentinels can be added to any force, I have seen some 500 point AM have sentinels, I have never been a fan of them, but their special rules make them an interesting addition.

I generally would go for transports in 750 points and above. Most (but not all) 500 point games are played on a 4x4 board and its not until 750-1000 points that the size goes up to 6x4. So you don't need the mobility of transports until the board is bigger.

In regards to flyers, the Valkyrie needs the rocket pods otherwise its rubbish. its missiles it comes with are ordnance so if you shoot them the rest of the guns it has have to snap shoot. Also they are only AP3 so useless for tank hunting. I like the Valkyrie for its large carrying capacity. its good for putting a basic squad with a flamer in and having a cheap scoring unit for last minute objective taking.

The Vendetta is the favorite flyer among guard players. It is a great bit of anti tank and its 3 twin linked lascannons can be relied upon to damage every turn. Take 2 and use them together and you have got an almost guaranteed tank kill every turn.

Sentinels are fun, but not the best choice. The problem with them is you are paying 40pts to have an autocannon, but if you put that in an infantry squad you only have to pay the same amount as 2 guardsmen. And they only have 2 hull points so they are not too hard to kill. The armored ones can be picked off very easily. However, the scout sentinels are great, for 35 points you can get an outflanking unit that can threaten an enemy's rear armor and grab line breaker, for only 360 points you can take 9 scout sentinels with autocannons. I will be trying this out in the near future because I think it has very good potential.

Feel free to ask any question about the guard, I am more than willing to help!

I can't think of much else to ask. The only thing left now is thinking of fluff.

No problem! Glad to be of help.

I thought of something else that I am curious about guard. How do they fare in Kill Team?

I have to disagree with Fatboy, transports are useful at all level, especially at 500 points. Chimeras are great at lower points due to the firepower they possess while protecting your troops. The ability also to zoom around the field, dump and shoot is a great thing. I run a 500 point Scions list with 3x Transports, it does quite well all things considered with the amount of fire power the Taurox put out.

Are those Chimeras or Tauroxes?

They're Land Raiders. With multilasers.

I am sorry it was two tauroxs with 2x scions and then a deep strike scion squad. Does fairly well with all the firepower it outs out.

Sorry to disagree with you but if anyone takes that 2 taurox list vs either list I have suggested and you are gonna have a bad time.

Also thats a militarum tempestus army rather than an astra militarum one.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
Sorry to disagree with you but if anyone takes that 2 taurox list vs either list I have suggested and you are gonna have a bad time.

Also thats a militarum tempestus army rather than an astra militarum one.

The list is a TAC, I am sorry to disappoint you but almost any CC oriented army would tear your lists apart. Conga-Line or not. The weapon load out with the dismall BS3 of AM will not put out enough damage to take out an MSU, while the list I have provided can excel at both.

30 storm troopers die just as easy as 30 guardsmen. 4+ save doesn't cut it, if it did everyone would put carapace on everything!

Tauroxs are gonna die in one turn. They are so fragile with armour worse than a chimera. In the world of scat-bikes and and other high volume medium str weapons your tauroxes are going to die and then the mobility is gone an if you are lucky you got 1 movement phase with them.

And the infantry army I suggested I have personally used to beat CC armies. I regularly play against CC armies, recently infact. I had a game against blood angels who had 2 units of ASM (in pod with melta and bolt pis) and a death company unit.

Turn 1: Pod came in and damaged a IS but thanks to flag they stuck and death company move up 12". My whole army unloads into the pod squad and kills it.

Turn 2: second pod comes in and sufferers the same fate but manages to finish of the injured squad.

So by turn 3 I have 55 guys across 7 squads vs 10 death company and 2 drop pods.

In his turn 3 he charges an PCS which I had moved up to sacrifice. My 50 guys unload into his death company and killed 5 ( I got off FRFSRF on 3 squads)

Turn 4 he charges loses 1 to overwatch and kills an infantry squad. My turn 4 I get off all my orders and kill him down to a man ( he had 2 pods left which died in turn 5)

TL;DR: MSU guard is perfect at killing CC armies at 500 points because they can only charge you 1 squad at a time if you properly screen your units.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
30 storm troopers die just as easy as 30 guardsmen. 4+ save doesn't cut it, if it did everyone would put carapace on everything!

Tauroxs are gonna die in one turn. They are so fragile with armour worse than a chimera. In the world of scat-bikes and and other high volume medium str weapons your tauroxes are going to die and then the mobility is gone an if you are lucky you got 1 movement phase with them.

And the infantry army I suggested I have personally used to beat CC armies. I regularly play against CC armies, recently infact. I had a game against blood angels who had 2 units of ASM (in pod with melta and bolt pis) and a death company unit.

Turn 1: Pod came in and damaged a IS but thanks to flag they stuck and death company move up 12". My whole army unloads into the pod squad and kills it.

Turn 2: second pod comes in and sufferers the same fate but manages to finish of the injured squad.

So by turn 3 I have 55 guys across 7 squads vs 10 death company and 2 drop pods.

In his turn 3 he charges an PCS which I had moved up to sacrifice. My 50 guys unload into his death company and killed 5 ( I got off FRFSRF on 3 squads)

Turn 4 he charges loses 1 to overwatch and kills an infantry squad. My turn 4 I get off all my orders and kill him down to a man ( he had 2 pods left which died in turn 5)

TL;DR: MSU guard is perfect at killing CC armies at 500 points because they can only charge you 1 squad at a time if you properly screen your units.

Also 4+ does cut it, it is certainly better than 5+.....

Also you are making many broad generalizations in your initial statements, I could also make the same with your list as well. You will lose half your troops to blast templates and whirlwinds in the first turn....blah blah blah

Tauroxs will definitely survive, especially two of them and at 500 points. Most armies at that level wont have enough anti-tank to take both out, or even one for that matter. That is also to ignore the obvious DS of the other squad, that will cause many armies to redirect their fire.

Have you ever played against Taurox at 500 points? I have played against them and eventually with them. You choose infantry AM, I choose to Mech up. Regardless of the number of models you have, your army fits a niche. Anything that causes fear, or forces you to LD will be heavily detrimental to your troops. Also Blast-Large Blast template will be another major hurdle that you will have a tough time countering with 50 models in your deployment zone. If I were to run a heavy flamer BA list against your army, I feel fairly confident I would come out on top, although if that same list were to go against a more "meched" up AM list, it would struggle.

I am usually a fan of quantity over quality, but that is a motto I focus on with my Orks, and at 500 points it has proven very successful. My only issue is that AM don't have the CC capability Orks do, so focusing on a volume of fire to whittle away MSU is not a valid approach as I have dealt with it time and time again. I was a former IG-Blob army guy, following after fellow Dakkadakka member Ailaros. Recent editions and changes to IG to AM have hindered its effectiveness especially at such low points.

The basis of my statement is that the goal is to construct a TAC list, nothing more/less. Each army will have its weaknesses/strengths. I still just feel that this list I have provided is both competitive and TAC worthy as it has a answer for almost everything. Where your army relies on numbers and sheer volume of fire, but lacks anti-tank or anti-MC.

hey man,
I'm currently working on a 400point combat patrol army for Guard, and I run 4 scout sentinels and a chimera (amongst other things). albeit I only need 1 Troop and don't need a compulsory HQ, though from experience thus far, dedicated chimeras and sentinels work incredibly well at low points levels.
For anything higher, Punisher Pask is a Beast. Threatening tanks and hordes with equal ease, he is versatile and somewhat overpowered. squadron him with an eradicator for maximum fun as you shoot 20 rending S5 shots into a vehicle, then kill anything inside with an ignores cover, S5/6 Lrg blast, on the move as it's only a heavy weapon. AP4, so bye bye dark eldar.

-Just my 2 Pence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(oh and another thing,) I disagree with both of you, MadMaverick76 and FatBoyNoSlim.
Tauroxes, while fun at low point levels, are not extremely useful. Bolters can take them out....having run a 2 taurox list for MT myself, I struggle to appreciate the taurox. sorry Mav.
FatBoyNoSlim, why do you not like chimeras at low points? you get protection for your vets until the late game, when they're needed, you get a relentless double heavy bolter, with option to include 3 Heavy Stubber shots, and finally, can move 12" a turn if It needs to, also possibly firing any onboard weapons such as meltas, Autocannons, lascannons etc, at BS4...

I am not saying they are the end all be all, I just enjoy them at low point games for the amount of firepower and versatility they bring to the table. They also require much finesse to use. Also terrain helps quite a bit as I would never leave a taurox out in the open. Also the idea that a taurox would be shot at by 10 bolters at 500 points would still statically not be enough to blow it up even if they did get a crack at he side armor.

I will say that I agree with the Pask Punisher, as I have started to run him at higher points. My usual 500 point list is Chimeras with an LRBT. Its tough but I squeeze in two chimeras, two vets, a CCS, and an LRBT (usually switched to a Punisher) for 500. Does well other than the fact one of my squads is really naked due to lack of points. If only a Tank Commander was one tank...

 Unspecific Person117 wrote:
hey man,
I'm currently working on a 400point combat patrol army for Guard, and I run 4 scout sentinels and a chimera (amongst other things). albeit I only need 1 Troop and don't need a compulsory HQ, though from experience thus far, dedicated chimeras and sentinels work incredibly well at low points levels.
For anything higher, Punisher Pask is a Beast. Threatening tanks and hordes with equal ease, he is versatile and somewhat overpowered. squadron him with an eradicator for maximum fun as you shoot 20 rending S5 shots into a vehicle, then kill anything inside with an ignores cover, S5/6 Lrg blast, on the move as it's only a heavy weapon. AP4, so bye bye dark eldar.

-Just my 2 Pence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(oh and another thing,) I disagree with both of you, MadMaverick76 and FatBoyNoSlim.
Tauroxes, while fun at low point levels, are not extremely useful. Bolters can take them out....having run a 2 taurox list for MT myself, I struggle to appreciate the taurox. sorry Mav.
FatBoyNoSlim, why do you not like chimeras at low points? you get protection for your vets until the late game, when they're needed, you get a relentless double heavy bolter, with option to include 3 Heavy Stubber shots, and finally, can move 12" a turn if It needs to, also possibly firing any onboard weapons such as meltas, Autocannons, lascannons etc, at BS4...

I play in a very competitive meta. Tau and Eldar are everywhere. The current league I am in, 5 people out of 18 are using Cent-stars and the rest its triptide, wraithnight etc. Because of this I have found out the hard way that chimera just die to easily. The last 500 point game I used them in I had 2 of them with plasma vets (and a platoon to hold my objectives) vs a Tau army with a missile squad with buff commander and some bare bones fire warriors. Turn 1, 1 chimera dead. Turn 2, 2nd chimera dead. Tau player just jump-shoot jump all over the place, staying out of range. Think I killed 1 suit and 6 fire warriors.

Chimeras are too fragile. My men might be fragile but I have a lot more of them and with 48" range Str 7 shots my opponent has to come to me. And thanks to MSU and orders I can still get around the map pretty quickly.

Here is a battle report (with old Guard codex I think) with my steel legion vs Tau. This was meant to be a friendly game so my list was pretty sub-par, but look what my opponent brought. Riptide hammerhead and buff commander at 750 points - very nasty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjdRRdVG7m8