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Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan




Homestead, FL

Our local store had to cancel our months long anticipated Tournament because the Eldar dex got dropped and people started backing out of the tournament until we had less then 8 players (3 eldar). So instead of playing a tourny this weekend I just went and had fun with some people.....And then TFG showed up with his Eldar......He brought his Tournament list of WKs and Bikes and some other Eldar trickery, but that wasn't the worst of it. The entire day this guy was trying to con people into playing not just his tourny list (nobody accepted) but his other list he brought "for fun" which was a 1850 list featuring not 1 but 2! Revenant Titans and something else I can't remember....but who would when theirs two titans on the table.

So needless to say this specific player eventually gave up and went home without playing a single game with anyone....but seriously, in what world did he think it would be fun for anyone to fight an Eldar Tourny list or 2 Titans without at least getting the chance to field an army capable of matching that? (most of us just brought whatever because....balance)

I know not every Eldar player is a jerk, I have a great Eldar player who specifically said he was going to finally start fielding his regular Eldar forces because they have a chance now. But at some point a person has to realize that nobody likes them because they are TFG, Either that or I am over thinking this a bit much :-P

I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Nottinghamshire

Maybe a little. Would you have felt it as worthy of discussion had his army been another, such as Nids?
It's a shame he didn't think to forewarn anyone, but perhaps this mistake is skewed slightly by the atmosphere surrounding Eldar right now?


[ Mordian 183rd ] - an ongoing Imperial Guard story with crayon drawings!
[ "I can't believe it's not Dakka!" ] - a buttery painting and crafting blog
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

There is a subtle difference between bringing a competitive list but still being a good sport and TFG.

Good sports will still have fun and cut back their list if they want to get a game in. TFG's are stubborn and refuse to do so, they have to WAAC.

There is also a correlation between TFG's and bandwagoning, sore losers, bad winners and other, less than ideal behaviours that are the reasons behind not getting games.

YMDC = nightmare 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

If(and this is a big if) the guy really did claim that he was going to start fielding his "regular Eldar because they have a chance now", I don't know where he was all last book...because Eldar had more than a chance.
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






If he was being unwilling to alter his lists for a game, then yeah, he's TFG. If he just wanted some games with his new units and book, then I don't he's TFG, I think people just don't want to fight newdar.

That being said, having fought Eldar last night, I refuse to play anyone who plays with a single Wraithknight or Titan.

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Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan




Homestead, FL

he flat out refused to play any games unless he could bring those two lists. I believe a Tau player even offered to play against one of his Titans but not 2. :-P

I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders 
   
Made in gb
Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

Hears about local Tournament going on, googles good tournament lists. Finds they all point to Eldar. Starts Eldar.

Spends lots of money, time and effort on building / painting new Eldar, based off of what the internet has guided him to be known as a ''tournament'' army. Brings new army in ready for the tournament, finds it has been canceled. ''Hmmmpff, that's disappointing, guess i'll just ask around for a game''. Get's rejected hard, being singled out as a TFG, for bringing a Tournament army when for a long while a Tournament Army has been what he has been building. Goes home and cries.

Someone isn't a TFG for bringing a competitive army, to say so is just single-mindedness. People want different things from the game, and if you don't want to give him a competitive game vs his optermized list, don't. But you shouldn't pop onto the internet and complain about a guy who used his own time and money to buy models, then trying to find someone to play with him.

 
   
Made in no
Stealthy Grot Snipa





"No thanks, I'm not into Apocalypse games. Do you have an alternative list?"

"I brought a pretty weak, fluffy list. Is it possible for you to tone down your list a little so we can both have a fun game?"

"Sure, I'll play your silly Titan-list, but not unless I can alter my list and use some proxies. Ok?"

And as for your local TO:

"Gee, because of this new Eldar kerfuffle, people seem to be dropping out of my event to such an extent that I'll have to cancel it. Maybe I should introduce some sort of comp?"


It's not that hard. Pretend like you're an adult, communicate your wishes for 40k gaming, and be prepared to compromise (which is a thing that goes both ways) if there aren't enough people who want the same things you want. That way you get to actually play in your local tournaments instead of going on the internet and moaning about it.

"The Emporer is a rouge trader."
- Charlie Chaplain. 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan




Homestead, FL

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Hears about local Tournament going on, googles good tournament lists. Finds they all point to Eldar. Starts Eldar.

Spends lots of money, time and effort on building / painting new Eldar, based off of what the internet has guided him to be known as a ''tournament'' army. Brings new army in ready for the tournament, finds it has been canceled. ''Hmmmpff, that's disappointing, guess i'll just ask around for a game''. Get's rejected hard, being singled out as a TFG, for bringing a Tournament army when for a long while a Tournament Army has been what he has been building. Goes home and cries.

Someone isn't a TFG for bringing a competitive army, to say so is just single-mindedness. People want different things from the game, and if you don't want to give him a competitive game vs his optermized list, don't. But you shouldn't pop onto the internet and complain about a guy who used his own time and money to buy models, then trying to find someone to play with him.


Thats a nice fantasy story. However, this story went more along the lines of

Guy spends years building his Eldar army up, this guy starts building his tourny list, gets informed tournament was cancelled because people didn't want to play against Eldar Cheese and instead of bringing a regular list he shows up with Forge World Titans and a list of cheese. When asked if he would play a slightly less competitive list he freaks out and refuses, when asked to take only 1 Forgeworld titan instead of 2 in the one game a person said they would play against him, he freaks out and packs up his stuff and goes home.

So to say im single minded is a bit skewed. He wanted to be a TFG WAAC Player and people didn't want to play like that, so instead of altering his armies he chose to pack of his toys and go home for the day.

I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






Or another way to look at it, he wanted to play a Tournament but the rest of the players backed out to cry about how OP the new Eldar codex is and on the day of the Tournament he brought the list he wanted to use in the Tournament and the rest of you wanted to play casually. How dare he bring his Tournament list on the day of the Tournament and want to play it.

Is it overpowered, yes. Should he have toned it down when other players asked, yes, but you can't go and call someone TFG when it was a Tournament planned for months and on that day he brought a Tournament list. I'd be pissed if I had prepped a list specifically for an event and everyone complained about a new codex so much that it was cancelled.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





miami, fl

Should have agreed to play, but you get to use his army and vice versa. If he was a good sportsman, he would probably bite.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan




Homestead, FL

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Or another way to look at it, he wanted to play a Tournament but the rest of the players backed out to cry about how OP the new Eldar codex is and on the day of the Tournament he brought the list he wanted to use in the Tournament and the rest of you wanted to play casually. How dare he bring his Tournament list on the day of the Tournament and want to play it.

Is it overpowered, yes. Should he have toned it down when other players asked, yes, but you can't go and call someone TFG when it was a Tournament planned for months and on that day he brought a Tournament list. I'd be pissed if I had prepped a list specifically for an event and everyone complained about a new codex so much that it was cancelled.


if nobody wants to play competitively like that and he refuses to tone down his list is it our fault or his? I for one had no intention to waste 2-3 hours playing a single game against him that would inevitably end with me losing and having done very little damage to his army.

Sorry dude, im not about WAAC, I play orks and while I do want my orks to be more competitive, with our current codex I know that against most players I can have an enjoyable time and have it be relatively close, so long as they don't bring tourny lists. he refused to play a friendly game and was shunned because of his attitude.

I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Or another way to look at it, he wanted to play a Tournament but the rest of the players backed out to cry about how OP the new Eldar codex is and on the day of the Tournament he brought the list he wanted to use in the Tournament and the rest of you wanted to play casually. How dare he bring his Tournament list on the day of the Tournament and want to play it.

Is it overpowered, yes. Should he have toned it down when other players asked, yes, but you can't go and call someone TFG when it was a Tournament planned for months and on that day he brought a Tournament list. I'd be pissed if I had prepped a list specifically for an event and everyone complained about a new codex so much that it was cancelled.


If all the guy had with him was his tourney list, then that's an acceptable way to look at it... but to bring a second list that is just as cheesed out, as the only other option you're willing to field. That smells a bit of TFG.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






 danjbrierton wrote:
Should have agreed to play, but you get to use his army and vice versa. If he was a good sportsman, he would probably bite.


Ah army switches.

Like the last thread involving superheavies.

If he wants to play with his 2-5 titans, then im going to bring my own titans and super heavys. only to be fair.

Honestly though i dont understand the fascination with MASSIVE things in normal 40k.

I can understand one in a bigger 2k+ game as a center piece to destroy. or a relatively weak one with no D weapons (besides CC because honestly its not a big deal in CC) at 1.5K + games

But when people start bringing multiple long ranged D weapon templates that cant be murdurised by normal means, it calls into question if they are compensating for something.


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Virginia

Maybe he'll learn next time. I wouldn't have fought him either.

40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Grand Forks, ND, USA

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Our local store had to cancel our months long anticipated Tournament because the Eldar dex got dropped and people started backing out of the tournament until we had less then 8 players (3 eldar).


What happened? Was there a stated connection between the people backing out and the codex release? I don't understand. It sounds like two different things.

"They don't know us. Robot tanks are no match for space marines." Sergeant Knox from Star Blazers

Jesus Christ is the Resurrection and the Life 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





Desubot wrote:But when people start bringing multiple long ranged D weapon templates that cant be murdurised by normal means, it calls into question if they are compensating for something.


They're compensating for the fact that they have nothing better to spend their money or time on than little plastic toys. [And I don't care how good an Imperial Knight is. It's not worth $140. It's a plastic toy; if you drop $140 on a plastic toy, you should seriously be re-examining your life.] Games are casual by definition. When people understand this, the world will be a better place.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/10 17:26:31


 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan




Homestead, FL

I personally asked four people who backed out and their answer was basically along the lines of "had other things going on and the Eldar codex just pushed it over the edge"

So the other 4-6 who backed out? I can't categorically say that the eldar are the reason, at this point its just hte biggest reason

I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all

Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





Eadartri wrote:
 Ghazkuul wrote:
Our local store had to cancel our months long anticipated Tournament because the Eldar dex got dropped and people started backing out of the tournament until we had less then 8 players (3 eldar).


What happened? Was there a stated connection between the people backing out and the codex release? I don't understand. It sounds like two different things.


I think that the idea is that people started backing out because they didn't want to play against OP eldar lists.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/10 17:23:16


 
   
Made in us
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

Traditio wrote:
Desubot wrote:But when people start bringing multiple long ranged D weapon templates that cant be murdurised by normal means, it calls into question if they are compensating for something.


They're compensating for the fact that they have nothing better to spend their money or time on than little plastic toys. [And I don't care how good an Imperial Knight is. It's not worth $140. It's a plastic toy; if you drop $140 on a plastic toy, you should seriously be re-examining your life.] Games are casual by definition. When people understand this, the world will be a better place.


Or, you know, value means different things to different people. I think it's too expensive too but I wouldn't tell someone who bought it they need to 're-examine their life'.

Games aren't casual by definition. The majority of games are played casually, but look at things like football or rugby, which are games, they're played pretty seriously. Professionally even. You can play a game as casually or as seriously as you want to. Presuming you have an opponent who enjoys it the same way of course.
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





ImAGeek wrote:Or, you know, value means different things to different people.


And people once thought that the sun revolves around the earth. What's your point?

I think it's too expensive too but I wouldn't tell someone who bought it they need to 're-examine their life'.


If you're willing to spend that much time and effort and money on a game, there's something wrong with you.

Games aren't casual by definition.


A game is that which is played. Play = not serious = casual = leisure.

The majority of games are played casually, but look at things like football or rugby, which are games, they're played pretty seriously. Professionally even.


Yes. I think that there's something seriously wrong about this. It think it's noteworthy that Plato doesn't provide a place for professional athletes either in the Republic or in the Laws.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/10 17:41:24


 
   
Made in us
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

So because you think that 1. Spending a lot of money on a game and 2. Games being played competitively are wrong, there's something wrong with the world and that something is wrong with those people...

Also what's your point about the sun and the earth thing..?

To be quite frank, I don't give ten shades what Plato thought about games. If someone enjoys playing games competitively, more power too them. You don't get to govern how people enjoy things because of your opinions or some guys who's been dead for years.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/10 17:43:04


 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





 ImAGeek wrote:
So because you think that 1. Spending a lot of money on a game and 2. Games being played competitively are wrong, there's something wrong with the world and that something is wrong with those people...


What could possibly justify spending $140 on an imperial knight? Seriously. Give me a list of reasons why someone would buy one. For every reason you list, I will be able to tell you why there's something wrong with that person.

Also what's your point about the sun and the earth thing..?


The fact that A believes B generally doesn't tell us anything about whether or not B obtains in reality.
   
Made in us
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

1. Because they like the model. Done, sorted. Literally no argument you can come up with will convince me that that therefore means there's something wrong with that person.
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





 ImAGeek wrote:
1. Because they like the model. Done, sorted. Literally no argument you can come up with will convince me that that therefore means there's something wrong with that person.


You dropped $140 on a model because it's pretty? If you have $140 to drop on a random decoration, that's money that you could have donated to charity. While a pretty model is sitting on your shelf, people are starving in Africa. How many bags of rice and beans do you think $140 could purchase?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/10 17:53:07


 
   
Made in us
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

Traditio wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
1. Because they like the model. Done, sorted. Literally no argument you can come up with will convince me that that therefore means there's something wrong with that person.


You dropped $140 on a model because it's pretty? If you have $140 to drop on a random decoration, that's money that you could have donated to charity. While a pretty model is sitting on your shelf, people are starving in Africa.


Amazing. Why are you playing wargames at all then instead of donating all that money to charity? Man there's something seriously wrong with you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/10 17:53:56


 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





ImAGeek wrote:Amazing. Why are you playing wargames at all then instead of donating all that money to charity? Man there's something seriously wrong with you.


I think that there's a qualitative difference between spending $20 on ebay on a used space marines squad and $140 on a single new model.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/10 17:56:53


 
   
Made in us
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

Traditio wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:Amazing. Why are you playing wargames at all then instead of donating all that money to charity? Man there's something seriously wrong with you.


I think that there's a qualitative difference between spending $20 on ebay and $140 on a single model.


I disagree. I think if you're going to bring up the 'people are starving' argument, you need to not buy anything non essential and donate all that money to charity, otherwise it's a very hypocritical thing to say. It's not the person who bought the Knights fault that people are starving. It's not as if that £95 would have made any measurable difference and they just bought a model instead. For all you know, they might donate £95 to charity for every Knight they buy. Get off your high horse.
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon





ImAGeek wrote:I disagree. I think if you're going to bring up the 'people are starving' argument, you need to not buy anything non essential and donate all that money to charity, otherwise it's a very hypocritical thing to say. It's not the person who bought the Knights fault that people are starving. It's not as if that £95 would have made any measurable difference and they just bought a model instead. For all you know, they might donate £95 to charity for every Knight they buy. Get off your high horse.


I'm just saying. If you have have $140 to waste on a plastic toy just because it looks cool, there's something seriously wrong here.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Makes me sad that it's impossible to play a good game without homeruling in some cases. However, i think that it should be a common practice to homerule the units that are either overpowered or underpowered. Think that we've forgotten that it's firstly a game about toy soldiers running around killing each other. That it's not serious enough to 100% stick to the book. It's not a law or something.

You got WK that noone likes t play against? Why not make it's guns s10 ap1 and take it's gargant status away.
You have possessed that you'd like to field that are complete garbage? Why not make them beasts or t5-6.

Think it should be common practice for before-games negotiations instead of bringing or not bringing some OP stuff. It takes the exact ammount of time yet you can bring whatever you want and occasionally invent fun fluffy rules.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/10 18:10:07


 
   
 
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