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Sorry for creating another post so soon after previous ones, but after asking the community why they play 40k, you've given me some brilliant answers! to which im excited about starting up!

My problem is... im not too sure which army i wanted to play the most? (i know Aesthetics are a huge point, but im a fan of most models as a spectacle)

The army im looking for... i'd prefer to be a more 'stand alone' army.. i dont really want to ally with another. i prefer to have the one army and that is it... so preferably an army that can perhaps fill multiple roles, or a diverse army?

My friend plays tau, and i know he castles up quite alot. Riptides, railguns, piranhas and a bucketload of marker lights... so perhaps an army that may have an easier time against a massed gunline? (If there is one?!)

But i suppose mostly is an army that im going to have an easier time learning. I'm not the biggest gamer so i dont get alot of time in to practice, and getting my ass handed to me every time i play will get frustrating as hell!

i Get paid this coming thursday, so im gonna be starting this army soon Any help will be appreciated guys

Orks, paint that skin green brother! Lol. In all honesty from those three orks is my first choice, daemon being second, and that's it. I don't even pick necrons as a third. Personally I find their fluff boring and I find it boring to play them. That's just me. It gets infuriating to work hard to bring down so many just to watch the reanimation bring them back n extra shinanigans. Regardless, I choose orks. Unless you wanna be competetive. Then eldar. Blah.

Orks are the weakest of those three. Necrons are the strongest. You'll be able to take almost every punch on the chin as Necrons without even trying. That's why they get so much crap right now. Not difficult to learn some tricks with, not hard to gather an army, easy to win games as.

The other two would require a lot of practice to be able to face Tau and survive. You have literally listed the two options that have the hardest time BECAUSE of Tau gunline. Orks will die 20 at a time and KhorneKin will struggle to keep the critical mass to be worth assaulting. You'll get plenty of Blood Points for dying, but that shouldn't be a gameplan...

Tau gunline? Blitz brigade, couple big meks on bikes with kff on one and mff on another, tagging along behind covering the vehicles. Full said vehicles with units of choice, and give each vehicle at least one weapon for the occasionally weapons destroyed so it doesn't become immobile.

The one thing that puts me off orks is the amount of painting required...and the fact it's a very cc orientated army..

But saying that I know very little about Necrons. I hear they have weaknesses. Lack of mobility and low ws and initiative. I heard cc armies wreck them. How good would Necrons be at taking out tau? He tends to use about 6 missilesides and a rip tide or two... It looks horrendous.

From what you've listed, Necrons seem to be the right choice for you. The Necron Faction is very powerful and can retain that power even while being "faction pure" (no allies). They have units that fill every role, from powerful ranged attacks, to powerful close combat attacks.

The primary strength of the Necrons is in durability. None of their weapons or firepower is better than any opponent, but since they take half as many casualties as an opponent will, it doesn't really matter. You need Close Combat? Praetorians & Flayed Ones. You need shooting? Immortals & Destroyers. You need mobility? Ghost Arks & Night Scythes.

They absolutely do NOT have a low WS (4 is actually slightly higher than average, or is the average, depending on the local meta). They do have low initiative, but as mentioned, it doesn't matter too much. A very, VERY powerful or dedicated close combat response will take them out in one turn, but that goes with just about any other army in the game.

The only true Necron Weaknesses are as follows:
- Limited anti-air options. They exist (the Necrons *can* take a unit to fill any role), but they're not very plentiful.
- Limited range. If you get Necrons to 24", you'll do great, but outside that range you're mostly useless. Keep your units close together, don't spread out too much, and you'll be a fortress.

Of them I think Orks are the most fun, haven't seen Khorne daemon kin played yet. most Necron armies are basic decurions at the moment and are fairly boring IMO.

The only reason I don't like orks is because of all the painting and modelling :( which is a huge part of the hobby. Plus I think I'd have such a hard time against tau to the degree where I'll hate the army. He'll either wipe me off the board or ill wipe him off once I'd get to combat.

Necrons have quite a bit of options to them though which is massively appealing. Apparently their special characters are quite useful? My friend tells me there are a pair of special characters that power each other up??

I'd go with the new Daemonkin, their rules are up to date ( naturally ) and they even get rewarded for losing units, can't go wrong there! Get them in close as soon as possible and you need not worry about those gun lines.

You seem to be leaning towards necrons cause of strength. If you wanna win a lot with little effort and frustration towards your opponents, you've picked the second best army. Orks, no matter what, are fun. You however seem to be dissuaded via painting. That's on you man. Good luck with your choice. Sad to see its probably necrons.

Do you want to win, constantly, or do you want to have fun when you play?

If you want to win, constantly, from the start, go with the Necrons. They are sluggish but durable.

If you want a challenge, that when you do finally get the win will make it that much sweeter, go with Orks. Yes you will have to assemble and paint a lot more models, and when you first start will be taking models off with a broom and dust pan, but think of the conversions. You see that Land Raider the store has for sale? Buy it. Break some parts, add some Orky bits, paint it red, and now you have a battlewagon. Take a Wave Serpent, glue a crap ton of Gretchin underneath holding it up. Add some more bits and you got yourself a Looted Wagon.

What armies out there would you say have the best stand alone codex? the reason why i was looking at necrons was because they're easier to paint, easier to get started with and perhaps have a slightly easier learning curve.. and that they cant ally with anyone.. which was one of the main reasons.

i got told playing daemonkin was kinda gimping myself due to the fact that you could just take daemons and chaos, and ally them, giving you access to Tzeentch, slaanesh, and nurgle.

Orks... i love orks. but i dont love painting enough to warrant having a mass of grey.. plus my tau friend is a dick... he's more or less a waac. i'd get shot off the table before making it into combat with him, and after the 3rd or 4th time i'd resent him. not only that but they're absurdly expensive!

i wasnt necessarily leaning towards 'crons because they're strong, but they seem to fit a bill more suited towards what im after for an initial army. But if someone can recommend something else perhaps that has the same conditions? i.e:

-Low(ish) model count

-An army that doesnt require allys to function

-not overly frustrating to paint (not that i dont have patience -but i dont regard myself as a great painter, yet i still find myself being a perfectionist, so a catch 22)

- An army that doesnt necessarily focus on one aspect of a fight. i love diversity

Necrons just seem to fit those traits? the power of the codex really just doesnt come into account... but if i couldnt beat my tau friend.. as he is a waac player... that would be awsome!!

Grey knights is what you just described.... Tough.. lowest model count.. one of the strongest alpha strikes... And able to wreck tau face if deployed correctly..

 Andy140491 wrote:
What armies out there would you say have the best stand alone codex? the reason why i was looking at necrons was because they're easier to paint, easier to get started with and perhaps have a slightly easier learning curve.. and that they cant ally with anyone.. which was one of the main reasons.

i got told playing daemonkin was kinda gimping myself due to the fact that you could just take daemons and chaos, and ally them, giving you access to Tzeentch, slaanesh, and nurgle.

Orks... i love orks. but i dont love painting enough to warrant having a mass of grey.. plus my tau friend is a dick... he's more or less a waac. i'd get shot off the table before making it into combat with him, and after the 3rd or 4th time i'd resent him. not only that but they're absurdly expensive!

i wasnt necessarily leaning towards 'crons because they're strong, but they seem to fit a bill more suited towards what im after for an initial army. But if someone can recommend something else perhaps that has the same conditions? i.e:

-Low(ish) model count

-An army that doesnt require allys to function

-not overly frustrating to paint (not that i dont have patience -but i dont regard myself as a great painter, yet i still find myself being a perfectionist, so a catch 22)

- An army that doesnt necessarily focus on one aspect of a fight. i love diversity

Necrons just seem to fit those traits? the power of the codex really just doesnt come into account... but if i couldnt beat my tau friend.. as he is a waac player... that would be awsome!!

Necrons fit that bill perfectly. You won't be disappointed. However, you need to get this "best/worst" thing out of your head right now, because what's "best" varies too quickly in this game to allow you to be happy.

I suppose I would have been better wording it as 'most capable' codex to work without allys. My apologies

 Andy140491 wrote:
I suppose I would have been better wording it as 'most capable' codex to work without allys. My apologies

Ah, that makes more sense. Still Necrons then, though where we'll be in 12 months is anyone's guess. Note, "allies" means a few things in 40k. Anyone "can" ally with anyone! However, how good of an ally they are is more debatable.

In 40k there's levels of allies;

Battle Brothers are when two armies consistently fight together, and are willing to share their tactics and strategies, and even sit in the same hall afterwards. Only the Imperium of Man benefits so highly from Battle Brothers, as ANY Imperial Army will be Battle Brothers with any other Imperial army (Sisters & Grey Knights, or Imperial Knights & Dark Angels, or Astra Militarum & Space Wolves, etc.). Eldar can ally with any other "Eldar" (like Dark Eldar and Harlequins) as battle brothers, but share this privilege with no one else. Same goes for Chaos; only Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons can work together this closely. These forces can have their characters join units of the other force, have their psykers be trusted to cast blessings on the other, and will even allow the use of their transports for their allies.

Allies of Convenience are when two armies often fight for similar goals, or are used to dealing with each other, even if uneasily. There are many times when the Imperium has worked with the Eldar against far greater threats, and Chaos often makes use of the Orks' thirst for battle and the conspires with Necron masters to overthrow Imperial worlds. The Tau have also been known to be friendly with the Eldar, and the Necrons currently deal with them, at least haphazardly. These forces can fight close to each other, but they will not trust their allies too far. The Eldar won't allow Tau FIrewarriors to get into their vehicles, and Chaos Space Marines won't trust an Ork Weirdboy to cast a blessing on them.

Desperate Allies are when two armies have very little experience fighting together, but that such occurrences are frequent enough that they will hold their fire for at least a moment to hear their opponents speak. The Tau are at least Desperate Allies with everyone except Chaos Daemons and Tyranids, who cannot be reasoned with, and the only ones who won't at least consider buying off the help of an Ork Warband is the Imperium of Man and the Tyranids. These forces can barely handle fighting together, and must be kept apart from each other during the fighting, lest they mistake their allies for enemies.

Come the Apocalypse is a very special set of allies... they aren't. If such an alliance does happen, it is likely for that battle only, and maybe not even then. These are forces that hate each other so passionately that the only reason they'd work together would be only the most dire of circumstances, for they'd often just enjoy watching their enemies perish to the same fate as themselves rather than aid them. As such, the ONLY faction that is as close to "faction pure" as you can get is the Tyranids. If the Hive Mind is aware of the existence of the others at all, it is only as prey.


So, as you can see, you have quite a lot of option for allies! Going "faction pure" is just a choice, no matter the faction.

Only one of those options is Da biggest and Da best.

So I'm gonna say go necrons again.. as I've said you lean towards them in every other post. Necrons players, like eldar, are a rare breed of non admitting waac or I resent you players, and unfortunately you have displayed the symptoms of the waac virus. The only way to purge yourself is to exile all necron or eldar scumminess from your mind and soul, and repent to gork and or mork

In all honesty... If my friend didn't play tau I'd probably consider orks a little more. I had them a looooong long time ago. When GW glue was awful. I'd undercoated them all.. I had the old wartrukks. And I didn't know how to play alot. I kept them for years. Every time I picked a handful up they'd break. And break. And break. But as I've stated before... I can't paint very well and orks seem very difficult :(


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What are chaos daemons like?? I prefer the idea of a daemon only codex rather than marines aswell

I don't have a lot of experience against Chaos Daemons - very few people in my area use them. Daemons of all the gods can be used in the same army - you don't need an Undivided daemon leading them. Daemons are mostly glass cannons - they have a ton of offensive potential, but not much staying potential. Of course, Nurgle daemons are the exact opposite of this.

There's a competitive build to daemons that's pretty much been the only thing I've seen online. You use Fateweaver and lots of Tzeentch Daemons to build up a ton of warp charge. You then either use that warp charge to summon more daemons (heralds or horrors) to generate even more warp charge, or you use it to buff up a unit of Plague Drones (from Forge World) to make them insanely strong and tough.