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Made in us
Superior Stormvermin




Manassas, VA

Found this army list elsewhere, but I couldn't find it here. I was hoping to get input here.

-Kairos Fateweaver
-Screaming Bell

So, since whoever finishes setting up first gets the first turn this army is pretty much assured to win that contest. During my Hero Phase I ring the bell. I use Kairos to change the result to 13. Game over.

I'm a big fan!

"I have concluded through careful empirical analysis and much thought that somebody is looking out for me, keeping track of what I think about things, forgiving me when I do less than I ought, giving me strength to shoot for more than I think I am capable of. I believe they know everything that I do and think, and they still love me. And I’ve concluded, after careful consideration, that this person keeping score is me." -Adam Savage 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






Hey, you're pretty clever. Good luck with your games

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame

And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming
And make YouTube videos for that sometimes!
https://www.youtube.com/@tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Superior Stormvermin




Manassas, VA

I'm not clever, someone else is.

I just thought Dakka might enjoy the amazing game design.

I just pulled out my 6th edition stuff, and I'm going to get to work tweaking and converting all my Ogre Kingdoms stuff to be compatible with that.

I also signed up to have Mantic email me the new edition of Kings of War as well.

Though, if there were to be an AoS tournament around here I might dig out those minis just for giggles...

"I have concluded through careful empirical analysis and much thought that somebody is looking out for me, keeping track of what I think about things, forgiving me when I do less than I ought, giving me strength to shoot for more than I think I am capable of. I believe they know everything that I do and think, and they still love me. And I’ve concluded, after careful consideration, that this person keeping score is me." -Adam Savage 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Etna's Vassal wrote:
Found this army list elsewhere, but I couldn't find it here. I was hoping to get input here.

-Kairos Fateweaver
-Screaming Bell

So, since whoever finishes setting up first gets the first turn this army is pretty much assured to win that contest. During my Hero Phase I ring the bell. I use Kairos to change the result to 13. Game over.

I'm a big fan!


I'm pretty sure you can't do this! I don't believe you can modify the result in any way.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




even if you could, fateweaver can't make two d6's roll a 13.
unless you cheat, which is actually included in the rule, Your opponent calls you a cheater, packs up his things and leaves, vowing to never play you again. Leaving you cold and alone with your "victory"

DFTT 
   
Made in gb
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




wolverhampton

Kairos's rule says you can change the result of a single dice roll on per game. A dice can't roll more than a 6 so you'll have to find another way to break them game.

mean green fightin machine 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain




Technically, it says you change the roll to "the result of your choosing", which doesn't actually mandate that it be one which actually appears on the dice.... If you want to change the result of a dice roll to "tuesday" or "light beige", this is entirely acceptable (I recommend this to confuse your opponent if nothing else).

So yes, you can immediately win the battle. And then, also in line with the rules, I can then "brand you a cheat". If you like having a white-hot piece of metal stamped into your sensitive bits, go right ahead....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/06 10:57:48


Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





dead account

*rolls 3 die*

"I roll a Monday, 42, and Tuna Sandwich...I win!"

   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare





What makes you think a TO would rule that you can pick a result for a dice above 6?

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Yes my Colour is Black but not for the reasons stated mainly just because it's slimming... http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth




 djphranq wrote:
*rolls 3 die*

"I roll a Monday, 42, and Tuna Sandwich...I win!"



Sounds just like something Kairos would do.....
   
Made in us
Crazed Savage Orc




K.C. Kansas

Well the rules says "dice roll" so I guess you could use a 20 or two 12 sided dice to get the 13. And the bell says roll two dice...so it could work.

WHFB-



40K-
 
   
Made in us
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






These rules are not intended for tournaments, and I dont think there will be any tournaments around this game. At least I hope not.

AoS is there to give you "something" to do with the nice shiny models you just got.

Also if your idea of having a fun game is setting two models on the board, watching your opponent setup 10+ models, and then telling him you win so you can pack up your models again, then there is something wrong with you.

DR:80+S++G++MB--IPw40k12#+D++++A++/fWD013R++T(T)DM+

"War is the greatest act of worship, and I perform it gladly for my Lord.... Praise Be"
-Invictus Potens, Black Templar Dreadnought 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





Orem, Utah

 FlingitNow wrote:
What makes you think a TO would rule that you can pick a result for a dice above 6?


because it is rules as written. The TO would have to make up his own rules in order to contradict the rules as they've been written. He will anyway, of course, but he'll be contradicting the rules the way that they've been written.

I don't understand why a 13" charge makes you automatically win the game, though. Are you charging the one unit that you need to kill, I guess?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/06 21:16:56


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Rules as written if you get the 13 on the bell you're a cheater. Same as using loaded dice. Which is generally frowned upon whether your playing casually or competitively.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare





 odinsgrandson wrote:
 FlingitNow wrote:
What makes you think a TO would rule that you can pick a result for a dice above 6?


because it is rules as written. The TO would have to make up his own rules in order to contradict the rules as they've been written. He will anyway, of course, but he'll be contradicting the rules the way that they've been written.

I don't understand why a 13" charge makes you automatically win the game, though. Are you charging the one unit that you need to kill, I guess?


Well you obviously haven't read the rules it has nothing to do with a 13" charge. The TO doesn't have to make up rules to rule you can't pick a dice result that the dice can not result in, any number above 6 isn't a dice result. Finally TOs rule against RaW all the time in every game system I've been to a tournament for. For instance I've yet to see a TO rule that the old Teclis any double is irresistible only kicks in after dispell attempts though that is RaW, or that D Weapons in 40k never do any damage to anyone...

The game as is, requires you and your opponent to have set the parameters of the engagement beforehand. For friendly groups this isn't a problem. For pick up games this is actually likely to lead to fairer encounters as there is no points system claiming two things are equal when we all know they aren't. So no longer will someone with a fluffy 2.4k play against a Tournament ready 2.4k netlist. For tournament play this will require extensive comp to balance it whilst players are trying to game the system, in other words literally nothing changes for tournaments as they already do that (a little heavy handedly if you ask me). The sky hasn't fallen, though list building is effectively dead I pray they don't do this to 40k as list building is one of my favourite aspects of the hobby.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Yes my Colour is Black but not for the reasons stated mainly just because it's slimming... http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







I love how some people can argue that modifying a dice roll that the rules say cannot be modified, to a result that could not even be rolled naturally, is "rules as written".

It's a good example of why GW stopped trying to make normal rules in the first place. If people are determined to misinterpret them, they will find a way no matter how clear the wording is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/07 12:28:32


Posters on ignore list: 36

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Made in us
Superior Stormvermin




Manassas, VA

Well, IMHO, you could roll 2d6, and for the sake of argument let's say you roll 5 & 3. You then use Fateweaver's ability to "change" the 5 to an "unmodified" 10. An unmodified 10 plus an unmodified 3 = an unmodified 13.

I'm just saying that, RAW, if you use the terminology they use (change and modify) while being synonyms they are not the same thing. Pedantic, yes, but it is a thing.

That having been said, whatever. I'll leave this to those who care to sort it out. I just saw this on TGN and thought it cute.

"I have concluded through careful empirical analysis and much thought that somebody is looking out for me, keeping track of what I think about things, forgiving me when I do less than I ought, giving me strength to shoot for more than I think I am capable of. I believe they know everything that I do and think, and they still love me. And I’ve concluded, after careful consideration, that this person keeping score is me." -Adam Savage 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





Orem, Utah

Oh, ok.

I mean, I don't think that this list is going to stand much chance against the Bloodthirster horde you're going to be up against, but I understand the point it is making.

GW aren't going to start writing their rules in that clear a manner.

I do wonder what kind of games this will lead to in the wild.

 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







Same as now. A few insane trolls butting heads and coming online to cry about it, and a vast majority of normal, mature people who can talk to their opponents and agree on what kind of gaming experience they'd like to have.

Posters on ignore list: 36

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare





 Etna's Vassal wrote:
Well, IMHO, you could roll 2d6, and for the sake of argument let's say you roll 5 & 3. You then use Fateweaver's ability to "change" the 5 to an "unmodified" 10. An unmodified 10 plus an unmodified 3 = an unmodified 13.

I'm just saying that, RAW, if you use the terminology they use (change and modify) while being synonyms they are not the same thing. Pedantic, yes, but it is a thing.

That having been said, whatever. I'll leave this to those who care to sort it out. I just saw this on TGN and thought it cute.


10 is not a result of a d6 roll. Prove you can pick a 10 as RaW for Fayeweavers rule does not allow it.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Yes my Colour is Black but not for the reasons stated mainly just because it's slimming... http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Superior Stormvermin




Manassas, VA

Sorry, man. Rules bickering really isn't my deal any more. I have seen compelling arguments both ways. I'm just stepping away from this now before it gets contentious.

Best of luck ironing this out (weather you feel it needs to be or not). As I said, to me it's just cute. I have no skin in this game.

*Rolls d6, gets... kumquat?* Damn you, Fateweaver!!!

"I have concluded through careful empirical analysis and much thought that somebody is looking out for me, keeping track of what I think about things, forgiving me when I do less than I ought, giving me strength to shoot for more than I think I am capable of. I believe they know everything that I do and think, and they still love me. And I’ve concluded, after careful consideration, that this person keeping score is me." -Adam Savage 
   
Made in gb
Resentful Grot With a Plan




Well I would say let them do it. Especially in a tournament. As they would be a cheater RAW then it is simple to deal with. Hell if somebody put down the screaming bell solo as first warps roll, I would just put a simple one model scroll down, if their second is kairos, I would do the same. That way I have less models to pack up after they prove how much of a cunning cheater (RAW) they are before going to get a beer.
   
Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut




 Etna's Vassal wrote:
*Rolls d6, gets... kumquat?* Damn you, Fateweaver!!!


I believe I have a signature now.

By the way, there was a rhumor that GW dropped the ball on army composition and rules to drive away TFG from the game. I wasn't sure of this, but after seeing the fateweaver/bell discussions, I'm inclined to believe it.

 Etna's Vassal wrote:
*Rolls d6, gets... kumquat?* Damn you, Fateweaver!!!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Have you not read, under the bell it says (no modifiers can be applied to this roll).

And this

13 Improbable Victory!: Against
all probability and reason, you
immediately win the battle (and
are hereafter branded a cheat –
not that that should bother a true
skaven general).

You are branded a cheat, meaning its a Joke and it can't be done.
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Houston, TX

So rules as written a hot iron is taken to your flesh? Yikes! ;-)

-James
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

My mate showed this to the GW store manager today.

The manager was not impressed to say the least.

I laughed on the other hand at finding this out, it's exactly the sort of thing I expected would happen with AoS

YMDC = nightmare 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





Orem, Utah

I didn't realize this before, but Skaven are now part of Chaos- so this list doesn't even cross faction lines.

So- modify the result into 13 and win the game as a cheat/true skaven.

 
   
Made in tw
Hunting Glade Guard




This doesn't so much point out poor game design as lay a literal trap for those players who think that winning the game is more important than actually having opponents to play games with. When you play something like this and think you're somehow exposing a serious flaw in the game, what you're really doing is showing everyone else what kind of player you are.

GW's rules used to make efforts to try and prevent people from doing stuff like this in their games - now they're simply not bothering to try and keep players from shooting themselves in the foot. So, yeah, have at it, show everyone how clever you are, and then you can enjoy not playing with anyone with smug satisfaction, because you'll definitely have shown everyone how much smarter and more clever than other people you are.
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





Orem, Utah

I've said before that I worry for the future of any game where "not playing" is the balancing strategy.

We have a chime in from an interview with a Forgeworld rep

I asked him if he knew that it was possible to win the game first turn with the screaming bell/fateweaver thing. 'Thats deliberate' he said. 'You can do whatever you want in this game, but if you do stuff like that you probably wont have many people to play against."


So I guess it is official. Not playing is totally how this game is balanced.

 
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

Id let my opponent run this if he agrees to the strict rules on the card. I get to brand him afterward. I think a big "cheater" seared into his forehead will convince him not to do it again. I expect GW will be receiving a lot of lawsuits for encouraging their players to maim each other in real life.

On an unrelated note, I expect copies of The Scarlet Letter to start flying off shelves.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
 
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