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So like many others, im jumping the ship from warhammer for good. Making my way into the unknown territory of Kings of war and War machine but no matter how I search I can't seem to find a straight to the point answer to a question thats always asked. Which is:

What do I need in total to be considered a start in warmachine.

Like if I had everything needed to start out in front of me what would I have? and I mean everything right now to dice and what price range should I expect to pay.

You need.

Rulebook £20
Template set £8
At most ten dice £5
At least a battle box £35 or a all in one box £75.
Tape measure £2

That's really it.

Great just one more question though.

To have whats considered a good force to begin gaming with would I just need a battle box or would it be better to get a set + another set of something to add on or just go whole hog and get the all in one sets?
Im not used to playing with so little models so its confusing to know whats a good amount and what exactly to buy.

If you can find an All In One box it's an amazing deal, it comes with a rule book and is discounted on average 30% on MSRP, and if you can buy it online at a discount that's an even better deal.

Or if you're interested in one of the factions in the two-player battle box grab one of those.

Battleboxes are good for starting out, but most factions battleboxes, whilst good deals, aren't the best collection of models for basing an army off of as most of the battlebox armies were created in Mark 1, so they're very behind the times. Cryx and Menoth are arguably the best, Khador and Trollbloods are probably the worst, and the rest fall somewhere in the middle.

Hmm I figured as much, is there somewhere or some information that will help me possibly pick out a starter lot of models myself, like building an army list or something. Like if I bought some rulebook I could build an army from model kits from scratch instead of predetermined starter sets?

 Los pollos hermanos wrote:
Hmm I figured as much, is there somewhere or some information that will help me possibly pick out a starter lot of models myself, like building an army list or something. Like if I bought some rulebook I could build an army from model kits from scratch instead of predetermined starter sets?

That isn't really advised.

WMH has a very steep learning curve, if you jump straight for the deep end drowning becomes a real possibility.

Normal games of WMH are played at the 35 and 50 pt level but choosing what models to take at those levels will vary wildly from player to player (apart from a few staple support models that each faction have).

So you really are better of starting at battle box level games and growing your collection gradually from there. This will have the double benefit that you'll be able to learn the game in manageable chunks and also you'll be able to better determine what is your favourite play style so that you can choose which models to buy at higher point levels.

I would also recommend talking with the local players who you will be playing with. Find out what they have and see if they can help you with a few intro batlebox games.

You might even find one of them would like to split the 2 player starter kits with you to help you get started.

Great advice guys, that is pretty much what I would have said. Oh, and welcome to Warmachine/Hordes, hope you enjoy the game!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And, sorry about Fantasy brother. I loved that game too, sad to see it sink that bad.

Battle box games are used as a way to teach new players gaming basics, and they are reasonably good games on their own. These aren't intro scenarios like a GW starter box, but actual games, albeit very restricted in scope.

Depending on the nature of the WMH community, you should be able to get in a demo game or two with a press ganger without buying anything. The battlebox, while not the most useful going forward, is usually the core for journeyman leagues, which allow for slow builds.

Now, you might think dropping the cash on a battle box is a waste, given how littel of it you'll use after a few months, but even if you take the best possible advice and build a tight 35 point list, it might not suit your play style, or be what you want. Slow building allows you to take the hit on one thing, the battlebox, instead of buying tons of units that don't play the way you'd really like.

Even experienced players fall into this trap wiht new armies. They buy big into a new army, and only after buying and building hundreds of dollars woth of models do they realize the army isn't for them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But to answer your question a little more honestly, what you need depends on how you plan to play.

Bare minimum for 35 point games:
Core Rulebook
Templates
Dice
Measuring Tape
Token Set
Dry Erase Markers
Transport
Display/tournament tray
Caster
1-5 jacks/beasts
0-5 solos
0-4 units
0-1 battle engine

What you buy for an army ranges dramatically, even at 35 points. Legion can run lists with under 10 models, where everything is a beast or solo, while Khador can run a winterguard deathstar (15 man unit), a jack, and still have plenty of points for two more units!

As others have said start small. If you can get the all in one get that. You can always extract a "battle box" from it.

Find a local group to teach you the ropes. It can get discouraging but don't lose hope. Your fantasy skills will help you here (judging distances, chaff, acceptable losses) but you will need a whole new set.

As for a knowledge base look at Battle College

Now note it is only good for a GENERAL OVERVIEW do not take anything in the tactics section as gospel. It can range from "well duh that's obvious" to "No, the rules don't work like that, that is illegal" because it is entirely fan made (it's a wiki)

But it is good to give you an idea of what a unit does and show you the models.

Don't just buy up a 50 pt list & start there. Start at battle box to learn the FURY/FOCUS mechanic, then slowly up it to 50.

What factions are you interested in? Perhaps we can help point you in the right direction or fill your knowledge base?

Los pollos hermanos wrote:So like many others, im jumping the ship from warhammer for good. Making my way into the unknown territory of Kings of war and War machine but no matter how I search I can't seem to find a straight to the point answer to a question thats always asked. Which is:

What do I need in total to be considered a start in warmachine.

Like if I had everything needed to start out in front of me what would I have? and I mean everything right now to dice and what price range should I expect to pay.

Honest answers. Measuring tape and dice. You can download the quick start rules for battle box games from the pp site, if you want. (They also come in the box). Proxy with some dreadnoughts and space marines and figure if the game is for you.

But seriously, Dice, tape measure and battlebox would be thr absolute minimum.

To expand from there, next essential purchase is the rulebook (prime for warmachine armies, primal for hordes ones). Tokens etc are nice, but to start with, you can use pieces of paper or coins to mark focus points and spell effects. The template and aoe sets are handy to have too. If you have an iPad, get the war room app and download the faction deck for your faction. It's only a few quid. It has all the cards of all casters, units etc and automatically updates with new releases for that faction. Also acts as a rules reference. Very handy app to have.

Beyond that, expand your army. To infinity and beyond.

Los pollos hermanos wrote:Great just one more question though.

To have whats considered a good force to begin gaming with would I just need a battle box or would it be better to get a set + another set of something to add on or just go whole hog and get the all in one sets?
Im not used to playing with so little models so its confusing to know whats a good amount and what exactly to buy.

Battlebox. Cut your teeth with that. Learn the basics, over a dozen games and then expand slowly. If possible, join a journeyman league. This is not like gw games. This is not a 'oh you play [faction x]? - buy this list and win' kind of game.This is not a game thst rewards jumping in at the deep end. The learning curve is extremely steep. You will lose. You will lose a lot when you start. It's a right of passage, really. Learn from your losses, and after a while, things will start to click. When you win, it's because you outplayed your opponent.

As to what to buy - honestly it depends. This is not like 40k where you say 'here's a list. Don't bother with the rest'. Everything can be built into an effective game winning strategy. There are very few duds. What counts is synergy. Different things work differently with other different things. Unit x might be great with caster y, and terrible with caster z. Does that mean unit x is op or terrible? Neither. It's just a good/bad synergy. So effectively, if there is a unit you like the look of, you can probably build it into a decent list. Hence the 'path' to take really depends on what you like and where you want to go. Again, unthink your gw games. Thst mentality will do you no good here.

Los pollos hermanos wrote:Hmm I figured as much, is there somewhere or some information that will help me possibly pick out a starter lot of models myself, like building an army list or something. Like if I bought some rulebook I could build an army from model kits from scratch instead of predetermined starter sets?

What models do you like the look of? What fluff do you like? Making up your own army list is ill advised for someone just starting off - battlebox gsmes and expand slowly is your best bet!

Hope that helps.

Most games range from 20-50 points, with each general adding a varying amount on top of the agreed points value. anything in that range will allow you to play standard games (called steamrollers)

Join the PP forms, and check out the stickies in the various faction forums. Tons of good info in there.

Given how inexpensive the battleboxes are, most of the time it's best to just start off with the battlebox to learn the game and give yourself a good idea of what further purchases you'd like to make. Often the battleboxes come with jacks/beasts that, with a few extra parts, can be magnetised to give you a variety of options later on.

If you absolutely do not want to buy a battlebox, you can take a look at the alternate battleboxes for journeyman leagues, they'll cost you more as you'll be buying each model individually, but you can still participate in a journeyman.

It seems from all your advice that it would be best to start with the battlebox or a battle group.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:


What factions are you interested in? Perhaps we can help point you in the right direction or fill your knowledge base?

Well right now my interest is drawn towards
The Protectorate of Menoth, khador possibly Cygnar and Skorne, legion-of-everblight

Do you have a general playstyle you like to use?

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Do you have a general playstyle you like to use?

Well im not sure about this game but in others im not great with fragile or finicky units. I usually like to play survivability. I like to know my units can take a hit and keep going, allows me to widdle down my opponent without worrying too much that one wrong turn would have me losing units.

 Los pollos hermanos wrote:

Well im not sure about this game but in others im not great with fragile or finicky units. I usually like to play survivability. I like to know my units can take a hit and keep going, allows me to widdle down my opponent without worrying too much that one wrong turn would have me losing units.

I'd advise against Legion & Cygnar. Neither are known for their durability. Legion is glass cannony. They hit hard & fast but can't take a beating. Cygnar I don't know too much about. But still try them out, you may like them. Durability & grindyness Cryx are good (because they raise the dead back) and trolls are probably the best grinder / attrition force out there.

Khador: Khador is an infantry faction but can be very very durable. Their Jacks tend to have armor 20+ and Dmg 30+. Khador has no light jacks, heavy hitters only. As for infantry durability eIrusk gives every warrior model in his CMD range tough (if you would die, on a 5 or 6, you're knocked down instead) Butcher 2 brings doom reavers whose unit attachment gives them tough. Khador can take a hit pretty well. Khador tends to be very straight forward, but very good at it. They are your soviets, massed infantry, heavy armor, blunt but effective. In doing so they like to spam from what I've seen. Want blood thirsty murderhappy maniacs? Take 42 of them. Like winterguard shooing? Take 50 guns. The only thing they have trouble spamming is jacks.

Protectorate also take hits well or rather, they don't take hits. Protectorate is a lot about buff & denial. Their main support unit, the choir, can make a warjack immune to non magical shooting, or immune to spells, or get +2 to attack & damage rolls and you can cycle it depending on the situation but you only get 1 per turn. Protectorate also likes to light things on fire. Protectorate is annoying because a lot of times they just say no. "No, you can't cast spells targeting them" "No, you can't shoot him unless it's a magic gun" "No, I can't be knocked down or made stationary" "No, he's not dying, he will instead" "No, you can't have that buff, I'm taking it away" "No, you can't put out that fire, Burn heretic!" "no, we're immune to continuous effects" granted they don't get all that at once (Different units, casters, spells) but it's still fun.

Skorne is my main faction. Skorne hits much harder & much faster than you think we do. We have a non character beast that can reliably 1 round a colossal. We're also quite durable on some but frail on others. However that's OK. I run swordsman with makeda2 who at 13/13 aren't too durable, but whenever a unit takes casualties from the enemy, at the start of my next turn, the unit can advance 3" and make a melee attack. I also collect the souls of the fallen to fuel some nice solo beatsticks. Skorne are a combined arms faction who prefer a melee focus. Usually you see one ranged unit 2-5 beasts and infantry to fill. With skorne you'll get asked:
So wait, that thing is P+S 21? Yes.
And SPD 8? Yes.
Pathfinder? Yes.
Charges for free? Yes.
Has 3 base attacks? Yes.
And 5 FURY? Yes.
And chain attack? Yes.
Oh god why? Yes.

#######################################################################################################################

Legion: Legion hits hard & fast but can't take much back. legion also ignores the rules. All of them. Well not all, but pathfinder (ignore terrain penalty) and eyeless sight (ignore LoS, cover & stealth) is on every one of their beasts. They are frail but usually their alpha strike is crippling and this is an army that very much wants to alpha strike.

Cygnar: Tends to need mercenaries to flesh out their ranks. They are a very well rounded faction with some great casters. They favour shooting but are by no means an entirely shooting faction. A big thing they do is lightning damage, which jumps from target to target and does auto damage to a warjacks cortex.

Anyone else feel free to correct me or add on.

Trollbloods, Skorne, Khador and Protectorate of Menoth are all fairly durable factions, you'll want to stay away from Circle Orboros and Legion of Everblight. Probably stay away from Cryx as well, though they can play an attrition style quite well, their warcasters are often very easy to assassinate.

 Los pollos hermanos wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Do you have a general playstyle you like to use?

Well im not sure about this game but in others im not great with fragile or finicky units. I usually like to play survivability. I like to know my units can take a hit and keep going, allows me to widdle down my opponent without worrying too much that one wrong turn would have me losing units.

Hmm - this will be a difficult game for you then. 'Survivability' is relative. This is not like 40k where you get 2+ rerollable saves etc and can rely on a whole army's firepower literally bouncing off them. this is a game where attacking power greatly exceeds survivability. In other words, everything can be killed in a turn, with the proper application of axe to face. For every strategy of making your units 'harder' - high defence, high armour, numbers, there will be a counter. The trick is that you can kill his dudes with the same application of aggression. Manoeuvre, positioning and clever application of force are crucial. This is also a game where one mistake, one misstep can and will cost you the game. I've been on both sides - where I was losing handily or winning handily. One mistake by my opponent and I snatched a win, one bad move by me and I opened myself up to an assassination. It's a very tense and engaging game as a result - you always have a chance, as does your opponent, and you can never get complacent or drop your guard.

Señor Fring, whereabouts are you located? The FLGS round here is fairly new as are most of the WMH players with a light sprinkling of veterans.

If you're close by we can give you a run through if you want.

Deadnight wrote:

 Los pollos hermanos wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Do you have a general playstyle you like to use?

Well im not sure about this game but in others im not great with fragile or finicky units. I usually like to play survivability. I like to know my units can take a hit and keep going, allows me to widdle down my opponent without worrying too much that one wrong turn would have me losing units.

Hmm - this will be a difficult game for you then. 'Survivability' is relative. This is not like 40k where you get 2+ rerollable saves etc and can rely on a whole army's firepower literally bouncing off them. this is a game where attacking power greatly exceeds survivability. In other words, everything can be killed in a turn, with the proper application of axe to face. For every strategy of making your units 'harder' - high defence, high armour, numbers, there will be a counter. The trick is that you can kill his dudes with the same application of aggression. Manoeuvre, positioning and clever application of force are crucial. This is also a game where one mistake, one misstep can and will cost you the game. I've been on both sides - where I was losing handily or winning handily. One mistake by my opponent and I snatched a win, one bad move by me and I opened myself up to an assassination. It's a very tense and engaging game as a result - you always have a chance, as does your opponent, and you can never get complacent or drop your guard.

This is very true. Durability is less about having one big unit your opponent just can't kill, and more about having lots of resilient models that are going to take a significant investment of resources to take down.

What ever army you choose it won't be a bad decision. Remember the game is well balanced, it not like 40k. I play Menoth which are pretty easy to learn compared to some of the other armies. If you enjoy saying "no" to your opponent then I would recommend Menoth.

This entire game is 'finicky' units. If you don't use it right, it's not going to perform

You should already have most of what you need to play Warmachine if you were already playing Warhammer - dice, tape measure, etc.

Figure out the army you want ot play - I'd suggest looking at youtube and there should be games posted of different armies - it could help give you a glimse into play styles of different armies.

Buy the all-in-one box of the faction that you like - it is an incredible deal - I don't know about the pound - dollar rate right now, but most of the all-in-one army boxes retail for about $130 for about $200 in product - most online retailers will discount that 20% ($104) and on ebay you could get it even cheaper than that. The starter box can be had on ebay for less than half of retail ($20-$25 based on a retail $50).

If money is an issue, I'd stay away from Trollbloods - they are by far the most expensive faction to keep up with. The rest of the armies are pretty close monetarily.

If you get the all-in-one box, it comes with rules - so you save on not needing to buy the rulebook seperately. I'd then download the war room app (free). Then pay the $6-$7 for whichever faction you select. It will give you the stats (cards) for every model for that faction plus all future releases for that faction. You can even create army lists on the app and use it to mark damage instead of using the cards and a dry erase marker (saves you a little more on card sleeves and the dry erase marker). I haven't used my cards for almost 2 years now.

Contrary to what others have said, I think that Warmachine has a pretty small learning curve. The hardest part is really just breaking the Warhammer habit of moving everything in your army and then shooting to moving one unit and then shooting that one unit before moving onto the next.

Azeroth wrote:
You should already have most of what you need to play Warmachine if you were already playing Warhammer - dice, tape measure, etc.

Figure out the army you want ot play - I'd suggest looking at youtube and there should be games posted of different armies - it could help give you a glimse into play styles of different armies.

Buy the all-in-one box of the faction that you like - it is an incredible deal - I don't know about the pound - dollar rate right now, but most of the all-in-one army boxes retail for about $130 for about $200 in product - most online retailers will discount that 20% ($104) and on ebay you could get it even cheaper than that. The starter box can be had on ebay for less than half of retail ($20-$25 based on a retail $50).

If money is an issue, I'd stay away from Trollbloods - they are by far the most expensive faction to keep up with. The rest of the armies are pretty close monetarily.

If you get the all-in-one box, it comes with rules - so you save on not needing to buy the rulebook seperately. I'd then download the war room app (free). Then pay the $6-$7 for whichever faction you select. It will give you the stats (cards) for every model for that faction plus all future releases for that faction. You can even create army lists on the app and use it to mark damage instead of using the cards and a dry erase marker (saves you a little more on card sleeves and the dry erase marker). I haven't used my cards for almost 2 years now.

Contrary to what others have said, I think that Warmachine has a pretty small learning curve. The hardest part is really just breaking the Warhammer habit of moving everything in your army and then shooting to moving one unit and then shooting that one unit before moving onto the next.

The basic engine is very straightforward and easy to learn, the learning curve is in specific compositions and unit abilities that can screw you over.

In a recent game an opponent spent some time debating to charge my heavy or BoV. Being sick & tired of A2A mulching their dudes and probably assuming the light would be the easier target they charge the BoV with their non-reach heavy. It trims on column of the right side and is then left flapping in the breeze, and my sanctifier bludgeons it to death on my next turn. They'd reveiwed my cards before the game but either hadn't noticed, hadn't recall or just hadn't recalled the implications of my abilities and paid for by giving up a piece in exchange for nothing. I'm the kind of guy that'll honestly go "That's not going to work" if you ask me straight up "Can this do any bs that's going to make this bad a move" but I'm also not going to proactively interrupt to give warnings during someone else's turn.

EDIT:

Also by 40k standards nothing is survivable, get ready for an adjustment period where everything feels like it's made out of tissues paper. The closest you'll get to that feeling is trollbloods.

If you just want something that's straightforward. Protectorate is probably faction requiring the least finesse. With a total lack of movement sheningans and least amount of enemy manipulation, they play with all the subtlety of Mr.T.

 Chongara wrote:


If you just want something that's straightforward. Protectorate is probably faction requiring the least finesse. With a total lack of movement sheningans and least amount of enemy manipulation, they play with all the subtlety of Mr.T.

Instead they're all about Internal synergies and denying your opponent what they want to do.

The difficulty in playing Menoth is that almost every model has multiple special rules. For example if you think we don't have any movement shenanigans you're not getting the most out of your vassals. Enlivening the Avatar is one of the most popular uses of the Vassal, second only to using Ancilliary on the Reckoner.

 jeratoll wrote:

 Chongara wrote:


If you just want something that's straightforward. Protectorate is probably faction requiring the least finesse. With a total lack of movement sheningans and least amount of enemy manipulation, they play with all the subtlety of Mr.T.

Instead they're all about Internal synergies and denying your opponent what they want to do.

The difficulty in playing Menoth is that almost every model has multiple special rules. For example if you think we don't have any movement shenanigans you're not getting the most out of your vassals. Enlivening the Avatar is one of the most popular uses of the Vassal, second only to using Ancilliary on the Reckoner.

I really wouldn't call enliven "Shenanigans" by most standards. It's like... a single out of activation movement in the entire faction. One your opponent can simply choose not to trigger, if doing so isn't advantageous. Compare say factions tons of those things (Legion, Circle) or that do that kind of stuff in a really focused way with certain casters (Cygnar, Ret) or even just factions that can layer specific buffs and models to get some specific crazy movement patterns (Trollbloods, Skorne). Protectorate taken in context next to the other factions in the game is one of the most "Walk up in an orderly fashion and throw big numbers at enemy models" factions there is.

Also by 40k standards nothing is survivable, get ready for an adjustment period where everything feels like it's made out of tissues paper.

There's a few exceptions, but they require a lot of support to work. Good example in Skorne.

Unit of 6 Cetrati in Skorne. ARM16 with 8 boxes each. They shieldwall up to ARM20. They can then advance 7" with Tyrant and/ or another 5" with Mekeda1.

Put Defender's Ward on them with Mak1/ Xerxis1 and they're DEF14, ARM22.

With Xerxis, on feat turn, they're DEF14, ARM24. As long as you're not charged by a whole load of Bane Thralls (Hardest melee hitters in the game for the points) you'll survive a few turns and may even grind their way to victory.

Note that with Swamp Gobbers and Krea you can get them up to DEF18/ ARM24 vs. a lot of shooting in the game. But at that point you've spent 16 points + a caster upkeep on 6 guys + support.

But. yes, 95% of the time everything drops like flies.


Gaz

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:


Protectorate also take hits well or rather, they don't take hits. Protectorate is a lot about buff & denial. Their main support unit, the choir, can make a warjack immune to non magical shooting, or immune to spells, or get +2 to attack & damage rolls and you can cycle it depending on the situation but you only get 1 per turn. Protectorate also likes to light things on fire. Protectorate is annoying because a lot of times they just say no. "No, you can't cast spells targeting them" "No, you can't shoot him unless it's a magic gun" "No, I can't be knocked down or made stationary" "No, he's not dying, he will instead" "No, you can't have that buff, I'm taking it away" "No, you can't put out that fire, Burn heretic!" "no, we're immune to continuous effects" granted they don't get all that at once (Different units, casters, spells) but it's still fun.
.

As a person who plays Dwarfs in WHFB, I think I've found my Warmachine faction....