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2015/07/11 02:34:15
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Dakka Veteran
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I'm assuming tournaments will put limits on how much you can deploy, but do you guys think they'll make you write lists?
I would sincerely hope not.. counter deploying units from your collection is a huge, huge part of the game. I know that I'd have much less interest in playing it with static lists.
Conversely, I'd assume a tournament would HAVE to limit models in some way... what if two guys put out 5000 point armies each and don't even finish a turn? Lol
I almost feel like AoS is a game of small formations. Heroes and units that perform better with synergy. Couple that with having an in depth knowledge of every army (which is possible with free rules!) and I think the game is every bit as tactical as WFB, just in a different way.
In no means am I a GW apologist but I really think they nailed it with this and making static lists just seems so opposite to what the game is. Automatically Appended Next Post: I should add.. I AM still making lists on my own but I'm finding that the I'm just making lists of stuff that seems cool.
Right now I'm working on a dark elf corsair army with a Medusa, fleetmaster and kharybdys centerpiece. I'm sure there will be times I'll deploy it as I intend, but in competitive games I'd definitely bring a much bigger set of options to draw from as the game starts.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/11 02:37:06
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2015/07/13 19:08:39
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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Yeah, I'm a bit confused about it myself.
Seems like writing lists goes against not just the spirit of the game but the rules as well.
And also, how do you critique a list posted to the forum? I guess you could discuss the "fluffiness" of taking this unit or that unit. With every option open and without any sort of relative cost mechanism, there's really nothing to discuss beyond "take whatever you want".
Any competitive discussion immediately boils down to "take as many as you can of the best unit in the game", with the discussion really being which is the best unit or combination.
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2015/07/15 08:11:59
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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So true, it's either about the fluff, or just taking the best units so far.
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Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?
The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!
Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!
http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com |
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2015/07/15 11:26:58
Subject: Re:is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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So far, there is indeed no real point to lists. Maybe later, if GW brings something else out of their fantasy hat.
But yeah, in this section so far, except for "take whatever you want", I don't see what to say really useful.
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2015/07/15 14:01:11
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Sinewy Scourge
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I think there is a point because many people are going adopt a comp scheme. Don't think there is any point evaluating standard AoS though.
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2015/07/15 15:22:22
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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AesSedai wrote:I think there is a point because many people are going adopt a comp scheme. Don't think there is any point evaluating standard AoS though.
There's another problem there - without a universal comp scheme, the rules for list building could be wildly different.
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2015/07/15 15:27:19
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Yeah the only point in list building is if it is to a comp. In which case they need to post the comp too I order for anyone to offer any meaningful advice.
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2015/07/15 20:19:00
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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In AoS, there are no army lists. People don't seem to get that. AoS is designed as a very friendly game and not designed *at all* for competitive play.
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-James
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2015/07/15 20:43:24
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Sinewy Scourge
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jmurph wrote:In AoS, there are no army lists. People don't seem to get that. AoS is designed as a very friendly game and not designed *at all* for competitive play.
Call it Age of Shmigmar then. Graft house rules on the AoS chassis. You think people don't get it? Hardly.
What's more friendly than using your imagination to create a better game? Care bears are positively dancing at the thought!
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2015/07/15 20:52:39
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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jmurph wrote:In AoS, there are no army lists. People don't seem to get that. AoS is designed as a very friendly game and not designed *at all* for competitive play.
That's why those of us who gets the most fun out of friendly competition need our own set of rules for that kind of play. Which some, including me, think is an unfortunate move by GW. But it'll probably work itself out in the end so both parties are satisfied
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Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?
The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!
Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!
http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com |
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2015/07/15 21:06:48
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Inspiring Icon Bearer
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Attilla wrote: jmurph wrote:In AoS, there are no army lists. People don't seem to get that. AoS is designed as a very friendly game and not designed *at all* for competitive play.
That's why those of us who gets the most fun out of friendly competition need our own set of rules for that kind of play. Which some, including me, think is an unfortunate move by GW. But it'll probably work itself out in the end so both parties are satisfied
If by "work itself out" you mean "go off to play Kings of War / Warmachine / Darklands."
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2015/07/15 21:16:15
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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This here is a good first step and it allegedly is by GW themselves: http://www.louisvillewargaming.com/Files/AzyrComp.pdf
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/15 21:16:30
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2015/07/15 22:09:08
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Battlefield Tourist
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One way I can see list posting being useful is if the two opposing lists for a scenario game or something are posted and people can give advice on whether they think it will give a fair fight, or whether one side or other should be tweaked.
The community could be quite useful in that regard, with it's pool of experience.
Traditional list building discussion does seem a bit pointless though.
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2015/07/15 22:31:21
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Cosmic Joe
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Trying to make AOS into a competitive (fair) game is like trying to turn listening to Justin Bieber to satisfy your death metal craving.
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Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. |
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2015/07/16 13:55:06
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Huge Hierodule
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MWHistorian wrote:Trying to make AOS into a competitive (fair) game is like trying to turn listening to Justin Bieber to satisfy your death metal craving.
I dunno. A lot of Death Metal does involve screaming profanity in my experience.
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Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?
A: A Maniraptor |
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2015/07/16 15:37:52
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Killer Klaivex
Oceanside, CA
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I don't see it all that different from 40K tournaments. 40K tournaments are heavily comp'd and play a game very different than the basic rule set (limiting allies, numbers and types of detachments and formations, changing save mechanics, restricting some types of allies, and outlawing or limiting use of units; are all common tournament restrictions).
I think it will take a few weeks and we'll see a comp system rise up; either a limit on warscrolls, wounds or even a point system.
-Matt
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2015/07/16 16:42:10
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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HawaiiMatt wrote:I don't see it all that different from 40K tournaments. 40K tournaments are heavily comp'd and play a game very different than the basic rule set (limiting allies, numbers and types of detachments and formations, changing save mechanics, restricting some types of allies, and outlawing or limiting use of units; are all common tournament restrictions).
I think it will take a few weeks and we'll see a comp system rise up; either a limit on warscrolls, wounds or even a point system.
-Matt
The big difference being that 40k is perfect for competitive play straight out of the box. The comp exists not to balance it (as most comps for 40k do the opposite) but to protect the meta and netlists.
However Fantasy always had massive comp (just like 40k largely driven by fear rather than a methodical attempt at balance). So nothing will change there.
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2015/07/17 22:49:21
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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FlingitNow wrote:
The big difference being that 40k is perfect for competitive play straight out of the box. The comp exists not to balance it (as most comps for 40k do the opposite) but to protect the meta and netlists.
However Fantasy always had massive comp (just like 40k largely driven by fear rather than a methodical attempt at balance). So nothing will change there.
WHFB 8th didn't have a lot of comp actually. ETC for example, as the largest competitive ruleset, took magic down by a large step, as it was absolutely necessary and added a few small restrictions, yet left the overall game mechanics intact.
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2015/07/18 02:27:26
Subject: is there a point to lists in AoS?
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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8th Ed had huge comp, don't know what tournies you went to. The Skaven book in particular had huge comp on it pretty much through out the Edition. With Ogres and Warriors being the other heavily comped books. Yes the overall mechanics remained the same with some restrictions on magic, which I expect to be the same in AoS (summoning being the restricted thing) with the army books having big lists of what you can and can't take and in what quantities (like the 450 point unit cap etc) obviously that later part will require more detail in AoS but that's all.
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