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Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




I am planning on doing a 50 wound tournament using the following exceptions/scenarios: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/07/age-of-sigmar-competitive-rules-doing-the-rounds.html

First the list:
Doomwheel: 8 Wounds
Hell Pit Abomination: 12 Wounds
Stormfiends: 30 Wounds
-1x Grinderfist Tunneler
- 4x Ratling Cannons

I can see myself getting access to sudden death victory in a large portion of games (they only have to bring 21 models at that point) and as such I will likely be choosing assassinate a majority of the time. With the stormfiends being able to dump 12d6 shots the turn they arrive and the HPA/DW applying pressure, I should be able to get it pretty easily.

Additionally, the 3 scenarios state that "Once the players have finished setting up all of their units, each player nominates one Hero model (unless they have no Heroes) to be their general." And that if your general is killed the opponent gets 2 VPs. By not taking a hero, I am denying 2 VPs to my opponent.

Thoughts?
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

Angryface wrote:
Additionally, the 3 scenarios state that "Once the players have finished setting up all of their units, each player nominates one Hero model (unless they have no Heroes) to be their general." And that if your general is killed the opponent gets 2 VPs. By not taking a hero, I am denying 2 VPs to my opponent.
FWIW this sort of scenario bonus is familiar in the 8E scene, and is often written around killing BSBs or wizards or so on. In virtually all of those cases, your opponent gets the bonus points if you don't have the thing in your army for them to kill. Your interpretation is likely to be in the minority, so I would check first.

And anyway, bit naff not bringing a hero, isn't it? Yes, AOS as written is brutal to characters, especially squishy Skaven ones, especially against "tournament" lists like yours here, buuuuuuuut I guess technically the Four Pages don't specifically say you must bring a hero (though "The General" section strongly expects you to at least dominate a general - storm friend champ if that's a thing?)

- Salvage

KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




 Boss Salvage wrote:
FWIW this sort of scenario bonus is familiar in the 8E scene, and is often written around killing BSBs or wizards or so on. In virtually all of those cases, your opponent gets the bonus points if you don't have the thing in your army for them to kill. Your interpretation is likely to be in the minority, so I would check first.


I will keep that in mind, thanks!
 Boss Salvage wrote:

And anyway, bit naff not bringing a hero, isn't it? Yes, AOS as written is brutal to characters, especially squishy Skaven ones, especially against "tournament" lists like yours here, buuuuuuuut I guess technically the Four Pages don't specifically say you must bring a hero (though "The General" section strongly expects you to at least dominate a general - storm friend champ if that's a thing?)

- Salvage


I would argue that compared to other heros, skaven heros are relatively tankier to their former selves in that they are hit and wounded based off of the weapon as opposed to their low toughness.

The problem that I see in this list with putting a general in is that turn one he will be one of 3 models on the board, the other two being an HPA and a DW. He is easier to kill by 3 wounds, so he would be the one that they focus fire. Additionally, most of the skaven hero abilities are not too great for a HPA or a DW.

This list is mostly designed to show the TO why balancing vs wounds is not a good idea, as well as point out faults in the composition requirements.

Even if he gives them the two points for me not bringing the general, if I complete the sudden death objective I get the major victory.

All through out 8th I played skaven in a noncompetitive fashion, because it was far more fun to. Age of Sigmar made skaven less fun and (especially balancing against wounds) made slaves/clanrats useless.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

Angryface wrote:
This list is mostly designed to show the TO why balancing vs wounds is not a good idea, as well as point out faults in the composition requirements.
Ah so. I tried hard not to berate you for being so WAAC-y, but I suppose that was the point
Even if he gives them the two points for me not bringing the general, if I complete the sudden death objective I get the major victory.
So the problem with Sudden Death is that it exists. But the second problem is that people are allowing it to happen on top of alternative comping methods, which is just bad and gives crazy bonuses to armies like Ogres (or this one). SD really ought to be seen as the only balancing mechanism inherent to AOS (i.e. one army is 133.33% the size of the other), and not something players actually use in a game.
All through out 8th I played skaven in a noncompetitive fashion, because it was far more fun to. Age of Sigmar made skaven less fun and (especially balancing against wounds) made slaves/clanrats useless.
As a self-policing Skaven player throughout 7E & 8E, I'm really hating that AOS is just making Skaven armies even douchier. Likewise Dwarfs. It's like the armies people already hated to play against are just being told to shrug and pile it on.

- Salvage

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/20 19:13:50


KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




You gotta let us know how it all went! I wonder if all players do like you and make a small body-count army. When is this event?

Want to play a balanced Age of Sigmar?

The Age of Sigmar Project Points Cost!

Points cost for ALL armies, including unit upgrades and special abilities!

http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com 
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




It is this Saturday. I will try and take some pictures of the games.
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




There is another option that I thought of:
– When a unit exceeds 10 models, receive 2 models for each one purchased with wounds.
i.e. a unit that begins at Five, 1-wound models, would cost 10 wounds total for a unit of 10, but only 15 wounds for a unit of 20 or 20 wounds for a unit of 30.


This means that I could take 90 stormvermin......
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

They're not using a wounds cap per warscroll? *shakes head in disappoint*

- Salvage

KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in tw
Hunting Glade Guard




I think it's funny that people are so angry about AoS replacing WFB that they are going out of their way to field the filthiest, most awful armies they can in AoS so they can point at it and go 'see? SEE? this game is garbage!'.

Making the worst list you can, the sort that you'd never field in any venue where you wanted to ever play other players again ever, and taking it to a tournament to 'show the TO' how dumb they are makes you That Guy, really. If you're okay with that, go for it - but you're not going to make any friends at this scene. :S

That said, I kind of hope everyone fields armies in the same spirit, I'd love to see what kind of clustercuss occurs when everyone bends every rule until it weeps.
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




overtninja wrote:
I think it's funny that people are so angry about AoS replacing WFB that they are going out of their way to field the filthiest, most awful armies they can in AoS so they can point at it and go 'see? SEE? this game is garbage!'.


This is more of a "See! This game needs a way to balance it that isn't based off of wounds/bring whatever you want!"

overtninja wrote:

Making the worst list you can, the sort that you'd never field in any venue where you wanted to ever play other players again ever, and taking it to a tournament to 'show the TO' how dumb they are makes you That Guy, really. If you're okay with that, go for it - but you're not going to make any friends at this scene. :S


I never called the TO dumb, I am using this list as a way to point out the failings of balancing of wounds. And who knows, I may be wrong and I may get rolled, we will see. If you are paying entry into a competition, I don't see how being TFG is that bad. If it were like a casual hey guys lets meet up and have a friendly see who's fluffy list is best tourney, it would be a different case.

As I said earlier, all throughout 8th I played a skaven army that was not super competitive and I easily lost more games that I won because of it, most of the time losing to optimized competition ready lists. I was never salty about it, and other people who were under similar circumstances never complained either, because we all knew that people who are running tourney lists will be super optimized.

overtninja wrote:

That said, I kind of hope everyone fields armies in the same spirit, I'd love to see what kind of clustercuss occurs when everyone bends every rule until it weeps.


I think it would be great. At this point it is playtesting AoS, because GW clearly did not playtest it all too well. After all, you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelette.
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Totally forgot to take pictures but here is what happened:

Win Best Painted Army: obtain Khorne Dice Cup

TO got rid of Sudden Death table. Must nominate one model (on the table, not in reserve) to be the general
(was always HPA)

Round 1 vs lizard men
His list : skink priest, Slan Priest thing, 3 Pterodons, 10 Chameleon Skins, 1 Stegodon, and the rest were saurus warriors (I think)

My Stormfiends failed to come out turn 1 and 2, which severely hurt my points. When they came in, they shot and almost killed the slaan, charged and finished him off and killed all but one of the saurus warriors. Stegodon did not do a whole lot. Chameleon skins are brutal and killed my HPA (Which came back up and died again).
We end up tying on VPs 4-4

Round 2
Vampire counts list: Corpsewagon, Wight King, Necromancer, Vampire lord thingy, and 26 skeletons.

Stormfiends pop the Corpsewagon and wight king (I misheard him as saying that was his general) but he kills my hpa which gives him the points for victory.
He wins 7-6.

Round 3
Ogres list: 1 Tyrant, 2 units of 3x ironguts, 1 Thundertusk.

T1 I pop stormfiends up and dissipate his tyrant. T2 mt stormfiends eat a unit of ironguts my ddoomwheel dies to a unit of ironguts and his thundertusk kills my HP to have it come back up and kilsl his thundertusk. Last turn, My stormfiends kill the last iron gut unit.

Take 3rd place with 17/21 points and get an ophidian archway.

Them getting rid of sudden death made this tourney more even. I think the 90 stormvermin list would have been better

The scenarios were basically warmachine sccenarios, but the wording for when/how to score were confusing at best and many f-ups were had.

Had there been sudden death I would have done better, but without it the list was strong but fairly balanced. The doomwheel constantly underperformed and I will not be using it going forward.

Also, top 2 lists were the aforementioned lizardman player and a brettonian cavalry list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/25 23:51:31


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

Angryface wrote:
Win Best Painted Army: obtain Khorne Dice Cup
Congrats
TO got rid of Sudden Death table. Must nominate one model (on the table, not in reserve) to be the general
Good, and good
The scenarios were basically warmachine sccenarios, but the wording for when/how to score were confusing at best and many f-ups were had.
I was going to ask how people were scoring VPs. I do think scenario play is the answer for AOS, but I've been preferring simple 4E 40k style objectives, hadn't considered mining WM/H for more complex zones and such. Not a bad idea.
Also, top 2 lists were the aforementioned lizardman player and a brettonian cavalry list.
50 wound lists look so weird to me, after working on 100 wound ones for the last week

Thanks for reporting!

- Salvage

KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in us
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores




Also, key note, NO ONE used a mixed list. (I assume it is the same reason I didn't: only had one race's models.)

I think that these early months of AoS will be very mono-race as people get used to it, so I would encourage branching out.
   
 
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