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Good day! It seem like i'm the only one struggling with the new Ravenwing lol. So I went back to the drawing board, and I decide to figure out what I could change. So I have 2 list. Which one do you think is the best, and why?
LIST 1LIST 2
Thanks in advance!

I'd be iffy about dropping the melta - grav guns and plasma tend to have the same target spectrum (scary monsters and terminators), whilst they can struggle against vehicles.

I could swap the 4 Grav by 4 Melta + melta bomb on all bike squad.


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What scare me with list 2 (well in list 1 too, but just a bit less) is that I have only 5 squad that use Jink as defense mechanism. Meaning I will often have 1 or even 0 squad that fire at full BS.


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-4man Ravenwing Attack Squadron (2x Grav-gun) 130pts
-4man Ravenwing Attack Squadron (2x Grav-gun) 130pts
or
-4man Ravenwing Attack Squadron (2x Meltagun, Melta Bomb) 125pts
-4man Ravenwing Attack Squadron (2x Grav-gun) 130pts
And Melta Bomb on Huntmaster of the 6man Ravenwing
or
-4man Ravenwing Attack Squadron (2x Meltagun, Melta Bomb) 125pts
-4man Ravenwing Attack Squadron (2x Meltagun, Melta Bomb) 125pts
+ Melta Bomb on Huntmaster of the 6man Ravenwing + 5pts I don't know what to do with.

I prefer your second list. More black knights will be better I think. Keep both squads right on that darkshroud! Keeping melta in at least one squad is a good idea, unless you are sure there will be no heavy armor. I would also split up your speeders into separate squads of 1 combined with Ravenwing Formation to get that turn 1 boost jink/full BS turn 2.

Good luck in your games!

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Don't worry so much about having to jink. Black knights are great in cc, so jink if you need it. Twin linked guns means 1/3 of your shots will hit even when jinking, and you get a FREE jink turn 1 anyway.

Scout up, boost into a good position, enjoy rerollable 2+ jink save with darkshroud, let em have it turn 2! If anyone targets you with that save, they are wasting their shots.

It's a beautiful thing.

some changes for the deathwing detachment:
upgrade Librarian to Mastery Level 2
Make one Deathwing unit a command squad with an apothecary and maybe a champion. keep one hammer and shield to tank shooting. then consider changing the second unit to Deathwing Knights if you have the models and points.

I agree that plasma and grav overlap much more than melta. Keep the melta.

I did some change. I think I could Heavy Flamer on the Termi because of the beacon on bike bringing me close enought to the fight. Also, replacing the Redemption Force by a Strike Force, I can bring a second Apoth with a Deathwing command. If I'm going Heavy Flamer, I might as well kit them toward melee hence the lighting claw choice. What do you guys think?

Ravenwing champion is better than banner; his big sword is no longer unwieldy.

Heavy flamer does not benefit from Grim Resolve, but I know it's very effective when you don't scatter.

Yeah but overwatch with Assault Cannon will score you between 1 and 2 hit with BS2, while Flamer will overwatch for 2 hit in average. I'm not sure either what I want to put on him lol. I have 0 idea what is effective on Terminator (Just added to my collection, so I haven't tried them much yet).


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This is another shot at a list:

+++RAVENWING STRIKE FORCE+++ 980pts
+HQ+
-Sammael 200pts

+ELITE+
-6man Ravenwing Command Squad (Apothecary, Ravenwing Grenade Launcher, Ravenwing Banner) 290pts

+FAST ATTACK+
-4man Ravenwing Attack Squadron (2x Meltagun, Melta Bomb) 125pts
-4man Ravenwing Attack Squadron (2x Meltagun, Melta Bomb) 125pts
-6man Ravenwing Black Knight (2x Ravenwing Grenade Launcher) 240pts

+++FORMATION - Support Squadron+++ 305pts
-Darkshroud 80pts
-3man Land Speeder (3x Typhoon Missile Launcher) 225pts

+++DEATHWING STRIKE FORCE+++ 565pts
-Librarian (Terminator Armour, Level 2) 115pts
-5man Deathwing Command Squad Squad (Apothecary, Heavy Flamer) 215pts
-5man Deathwing Knights 235pts

TOTAL: 1850pts

The land speeder formation is not that good. I would suggest not taking it.

You may get some nice benefits, but the cost is too great.
1.) when squadron-ed speeders share hp. That is a great way to get them killed really fast. If a single unit commits 4 glances it kills two speeders, if the speeder are separate you only lose one speeder.
2.) limits your ability to jinx. Because they are a squadron, when one of the speeders jinx, they all jinx, meaning next turn your hitting on 6 with the whole unit. Just like the above comment if only one speeder is targeted you, don't care so much if you jinx.
3.) limits your ability to score objectives. As a squadron, they have to all stick together. One of the strengths of the land speeder is its ability to move 12, cap and objective and still fire effectively.
4.) limits your ability to kill vehicles. Typhoon speeders are very effective vs light vechicles, even heavies, why, becuase of side armor. 12 inch move will allow you to flank most vechicles, which are av 10 or 11, and use your missles to pentrate and glance them. If there squadron-ed you lose a lot of that.
5.) Overkill, they all have to shoot at the same target, either committing more wounds then they need to, and wasting the extra shots.
6.) The over watch benefits is not worth it when you consider the extreme lack of mobility, fire effectiveness, and objective secure you lose when you take this formation.

Overall just take the same speeders just take them each as a separate speeder.

On the bikes:
I know you mentioned your taking the melta-bikes for anti vechicle, I Can tell you from years of plat testing, it is rare to get the melta's close enough to do anything. Unless, you out flank them, then you might get luck. I am personally running 2; 6 man squads with 2 grav guns and a combi grav on the sargent, They have a 30 inch threat range comapred to 20 on the melta, and they can still keep a hp 3 vehicle with two 6 to penetrate. Also it gives you a lot more flexibility at killing other units. Also multi-melta atk bikes do the same think, but are better and cheaper, I Would suggest investing in some.

Over all its a cool list. I am not sold on deathwing, i personally think they are insanely weak and not worth taking, but there still fun to play with!

Drop the grenade launcher on the comand squad, its not worth it, plasma talon is better. Take the ravenwing champ, he got buffed and is way better. Also I tend to only run 5, 6 just feels like over kill. Take like an atk bike instead.

Desrok1 wrote:
objective secure you lose when you take this formation.

How would they get objective secured otherwise?

I think whether or not the support squad is valuable depends upon the rest of your list which may be able to overcome the real drawbacks that desrok highlights. An MSU bike list can grab all those objectives, pop light transports, and keep baddies 48" away from the support squad. The squad gets interceptor which is not just nice but huge against any list with reserves.

My point was, that they can only hold one objective at a time. Everything in 40k can score an objective. My fault for bad choice of words. The idea is with a squadron, you can't contest/hold multiple objectives at once.

As per the interceptor thing, yes it is nice, but I still don't think it is worth, what you are losing.

Also if you play ravenwing right! Turbi-boost turn one so you get a free jinx on your first turn, and then keep everyone near the drakshroud, that way reserves don't matter as much. 3 up re-roll cover for bikes and speeders, 2 up for black knight and you can move and shot, and assault as normal next turn. That is how most ravenwing players will beat an army with large reserves. You lack any real shooting turn one, but for the most part, your un-killable turn one.

Also the ultimate MSU for this army is multi-melta atk bikes, they do everything melta bikes do, but they do it better. Just my opinion, I use them a lot and every game they work great.

Any way; hope all this advice helps!

"Glory to the Hunt "

High Chaplain "Frodo Swagins" of the Dark Angels Second Company!

Thank you for the good review. However, I am not sold to the idea of giving up the formation. Interceptor is huge in my current meta, since almost everyone bring either 1 flyer or a pod. And it does help protect your Shroud a bit by giving it ablative HP.

But it's true that the tax is great. The restriction to bring 3 speeder in the 1 unit is something that grind my gear a bit lol. I would prefer a smaller formation with only the shroud and 1 escorting speeder hehe.

As for Grav vs Melta, I'm not sure I understand your comments about having difficulty puting them in range. This list will charge turn 2 almost 100% of the time. The melat should be in range. Yes I agree that im losing a lot of shots comparing melta vs grav. But if I drop the melta, I will be scare of Av13 spam (we have 1 Guard player who like to do just that). I will try both definitly tho.

And yeah, I found the Deathwing really underwhelming too, but I feel that the list gets boring if only going full ravenwing for a 1850-2000 points game. And some people gets scare of terminator lol, especially when they deepstrike without scatter 1 inch in front of you, shoot then run to make sure you get really wrapped lol.

ps: oh yeah and about Attack bike, yes they are superior to regular melta.... but I REALLY dislike the model so I don't have any hehe. Looks before Wins that's what I say

Shame on you! The side car is awesome!

Hehe They are not that bad, I'm exagerating. But still, I don't have any