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I am a 15mm wargamer and I have slowly (over the course of the last year) been attempting to convert my wife into a wargamer. We started off by playing a co-op game of THW's "All Things Zombie" (which she was indifferent to) a few months later we played several games Ganesha Games's "Song of Blades and Heroes" (which she liked a lot), for Christmas last year I got her an X-Wing starter set (which she is totally obsessed with. We have greatly expanded our X-Wing collection since then and often she is the one begging me to play with her rather than the other way around). However, all of this has (in my mind) been leading up to the final challenge: playing 40k.
In an effort to ease into 40k, I have played two games of Gorkamorka with her (which she hated). We didn't even finish the second game. She was just totally bored to tears. This is the meat of the question: how can I translate the universe of 40k (which I am a huge fan of. so much so that I have been, for months, converting my own 40k figures in 15mm) into a ruleset that she will enjoy playing?
After aborting GoMo, we sat and discussed what she didn't like about it. Her main complaints were that she didn't like the IGOUGO structure, that she felt like she was rolling too many dice for seemingly no reason, and that the game wasn't nearly lethal enough and, as a consequence was incredibly slow paced. It annoyed her that she would roll to hit, make an ammo roll, roll to wound, roll for armor, and roll for the result of the wound, all seperate rolls and all for a single model's shooting. What made it worse was when, after all that, the final roll was a one meaning that the target doesn't even go down! I can see why, after playing X-Wing and Song of Blades, this would be infuriating.
What I thought that I might do is just play modern 40k with her (as the rules are a lot more streamlined and lethal than GoMo's). In addition, I thought about restructuring the turn so that either it works like the LOTR SBG (I move, you move, I shoot, you shoot, etc) or structure it more so that each squad activates alternately (and performs all of its actions at once) so that there is even less down time and we can both stay involved in the game. I also considered bringing might points in from the LOTR SBG as well to add a fun tactical element that gives the ability to break up the turn structure even further. What do you think about this?
If that doesn't work, I am also in the market for alternate rule sets that meet the criteria that she is looking for but would also be compatible with the 40k fluff and the models that I have created. I have my eye on Patrol Angis, Gruntz, and Clash on the Fringe. Would these fit and are there any more rulesets I should be aware of?
Any advice you have, I'd be happy to take into consideration. I apologize for the long, complicated post.
Thanks, everyone.

This is the meat of the question: how can I translate the universe of 40k (which I am a huge fan of. so much so that I have been, for months, converting my own 40k figures in 15mm) into a ruleset that she will enjoy playing?

Give her some BL books and see if she likes the setting. If she doesn't? Stop there. It is a lost cause.

Well Bolt Action has awesome rules and is similar to 40k except... it's WW2 which, unless you have 15mm WW2 models is not really feasible.

But it does not have heaps of dice and has a pretty exciting/intense turn system.

Might be worth looking at, but honestly, why play 40k? If you wanted her to play 40k you should have done it first so that she doesn't have high expectations of what a wargame can be like.

 Psienesis wrote:

This is the meat of the question: how can I translate the universe of 40k (which I am a huge fan of. so much so that I have been, for months, converting my own 40k figures in 15mm) into a ruleset that she will enjoy playing?

Give her some BL books and see if she likes the setting. If she doesn't? Stop there. It is a lost cause.

Pretty much this.

Just don't give her any HH or Ultramarine material. Most of that is terribad.

 Psienesis wrote:

This is the meat of the question: how can I translate the universe of 40k (which I am a huge fan of. so much so that I have been, for months, converting my own 40k figures in 15mm) into a ruleset that she will enjoy playing?

Give her some BL books and see if she likes the setting. If she doesn't? Stop there. It is a lost cause.

This. If she likes humorous action stories, especially military dramas, then the Ciaphas Cain series is a light-hearted intro.

If she DOESN'T like those sort of stories, then the Night Lords series by Aaron Dembski-Bowden, (beginning with Soul Hunter or the Inquisitor series by Dan Abnett (beginning with Xenos) are no-holds barred plunges into the grimdark, but they at least have some literary depth, with some deep characterizations and plots of substance.

If she doesn't like those, then abandon ship.

I'd say house-rule whatever you need to to get her into playing. The fact that she's game at all is pretty amazing...just mold the rules to suit her tastes and as long as you still feel it's 40k, you'll both be happy.

The true way to get people hooked is to get them COLLECTING and HOBBYING. All kinds of people complain about the new edition(s), but they still play because they're invested in their toys. Get her to invest herself in some models, it could change everything.

You could give age of sigmar a go.
Not ideal, but its something.
Or lay bets, winner gets a hour massage, breakfast in bed or some um favours.

Give her some BL novels. See if she likes the universe first of all

Just have her look at the armies and pick one she think looks cool, my gf likes the space wolves cause wolves but she's mostly interested in building em

Try Kill Team or inquisimunda. I think the main game of 40k is a bit meh, but with those games there is the possibility she will like some thing.

A lot of you are suggesting that I give her BL books to read. Unfortunately, she is currently working on a literature PHD and doesn't have time to read anything that isn't directly related to that. So any joy that she gets out of this is going to have to be gameplay related and any fluff will come from me. That being said, what do you think about the idea I had to break up the turn structure and add LOTR SBG elements? Does it seem reasonable?
As for playing kill teams? That is definitely the plan. I simply don't have enough models at this point to do a full 40k game and I think that running things as a campaign (LOTR battle companies style) will appeal to her.

Thanks, guys

 Swastakowey wrote:


Might be worth looking at, but honestly, why play 40k? If you wanted her to play 40k you should have done it first so that she doesn't have high expectations of what a wargame can be like.

Lol, exactly. You don't introduce someone to the 40k game by first introducing them to a much much better miniatures game. However, introducing her to the fluff and the creative universe of 40k is an entirely different matter. I would suggest having her read the fluff in your rulebook and army books and maybe even watching some Vaults of Terra on youtube.

If her work on her degree doesn't leave her enough time to read a book, then she doesn't have enough time to get involved in 40k.

I think you'd get better mileage out of your marriage if you spent your time supporting her career and education ambitions, or instead focusing on her existing hobby/relaxation preferences, than trying to get her involved in yours.

Keep your marriage happy, and there'll be plenty of time for 40k down the road.

If you don't think that the 40k game is the way to go then what games would you suggest that are better? Consider it a plus if I can use my 40k minis.

 Grimp wrote:
If you don't think that the 40k game is the way to go then what games would you suggest that are better? Consider it a plus if I can use my 40k minis.

Off the top of my head, Deadzone can use your old minis. There are lots of grimdark settings if you look for them for your 40k minis, but that's one of the better supported and quicker games.

Also, Kill Team is basically 40k Lite (you need, like, 200 points). There's a free fan version here to take a thumb through (it's better than the official one anyway).

Why change your wife? She is correct? 40K game sucks. It's boring, slow and makes no sense a lot of times. Also you are correct that it's a great game. It's all opinion.

Don't try and change her opinion. Otherwise you will just turn her off the game. If you want to keep playing 40K with her, CHANGE the rules to what she will find fun.

Me and my son quit playing 40K because for us, it's boring and no fun. So I had to change the rules to make it fun. So do that to get your wife interested. Do you have Lord of the Rings by change? If not do you know how it plays? I basically played 40K with LotR rules mixed in and my son likes playing now.

So don't try and change your wife's opinion. Just change the rules to make the game make more sense and fun for her. If she is happy you will become more happy as well.

Ok since you didn't use paragraphs it was a hard to read. I see you mentioned LotR. So do it. Like I said, I mixed in those rules, I move, you move, I shoot, you shoot we all do Assault at the end. It made the game more fun. I even went further now and tweaked the rules even more and my son enjoys it more now.

So long story short. Change the game so it makes more sense and fun for her. Otherwise she will HATE 40K.

I suppose that's the thing, this has been described as the "house rule edition", I guess this is just extending that idea further.

The big thing my wife dislikes about 40k is the obscene amount of rules there are. Not that all of them are used every game (or even the majority of them), but there really are an outrageous amount of rules. I'd suggest Kill Team, which you've already said is your plan, but also you might make a sort of "cheat sheet". Look at the models you have available, whatever each of you will be playing, and do up a couple pages with only those rules. Only have stats for weapons your models will be using, only make charts for the models you have, only include special rules that the models might encounter, etc. Simplify the game and it will go a long way to encouraging her to play with you, most likely. Another thing my wife really enjoys is the very thing that makes Orks orky. If you have some Ork models and the time/willingness to do it, and if that's something you think might appeal to her, customize a few characters for her to use during the game. My wife loves the orky vehicle conversions people have done so I measured out a Battlewagon and scratch-built a pirate ship in the same dimensions so she could use it for her Flash Gitz. The great thing about Orks is that the more imperfect it looks, the more it fits the army's theme.

I've also gotta say that I agree with the others saying that you shouldn't try to change her mind too much, I mean if she doesn't like 40k she just doesn't like it, at least she's playing other miniatures games with you. However, I do think that there are ways to get her interested. As others have stated, put in place some house rules if you encounter rules she doesn't like too much. I mean unless your goal is to get her involved in tournaments, which I kind of doubt, bending some rules (or ignoring them completely, for example I know a couple who treat charges as always being D6+6 inches instead of 2D6) to get her more into the lore and make the game more manageable sounds like a good idea.

Whatever your decisions, I hope it goes well for you!

Use OnePage 40k as in introduction to wargames via 40k models.

Tell her if she wins you'll buy her the shoes/purse/pillow thing she wants.

If you need something 40k but fast and easy? I would suggest Inquisitor, Necromunda, and so on. Maybe even HeroQuest. The boardgames are much easier to play, faster and faster to get into, than 40K is. Also, far, far fewer rules.

I think you already have an incredible winner with the games she already loves to play with you!

40k is a very archaic game as mechanics go, and you really have to love it and have the universe 'click' with you to love playing it.

Stick with what she loves if she's just not into 40K. I know my wife has problems with 40k's mechanical workings, too, despite my nearly 20-year love.

I haven't played X-Wing, but I've seen/heard what goes into it. From what I can gather, it isn't quite as deep as Star Treck Attack Wing (which I have played a good bit of) which isn't as deep as Dungeons & Dragons Attack Wing (which I've read the rules for)... none of which are as deep as 40K. If she's willing to give either of the Attack Wing games a shot (D&D especially since it has ground units and flyers) and enjoys them, then moving into 40K shouldn't be as difficult... especially if she likes playing a few games back to back.

Just my $0.02

SG

The thing is, 40k is useful if you want to go out to clubs as it dominates so much of the market; you'll almost always be able to play a game whatever sort of gaming club you encounter. If you're at home, it's pointless; somebody you're able to communicate with easily and already share plenty of common ground with doesn't need a bridge like 40k to engage with them.

40k is one of the most bloated, illogical rulesets on the market today in some parts; it's just been growing (in it's current state, i.e. since third edition) for nearly 20 years with little to no reduction, and there is so much more out there to play. If you're dead set on 40k, Kill Team may be the way to go, as it trims a lot of the unnecessary stuff and also makes it easy to change up games on the fly. Otherwise, I'd look elsewhere; you can always find plenty of rulesets that you can use your 40k figs in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ServiceGames wrote:
I haven't played X-Wing, but I've seen/heard what goes into it. From what I can gather, it isn't quite as deep as Star Treck Attack Wing (which I have played a good bit of) which isn't as deep as Dungeons & Dragons Attack Wing (which I've read the rules for)... none of which are as deep as 40K. If she's willing to give either of the Attack Wing games a shot (D&D especially since it has ground units and flyers) and enjoys them, then moving into 40K shouldn't be as difficult... especially if she likes playing a few games back to back.

Just my $0.02

SG

They're all derivatives of the same ruleset, each with a different twist; with D&D Attack Wing, you have ground combat; with Star Trek, it's mucking about with ship powers. X-Wing is the most vanilla version of it, but the ruleset, at the moment, is licenced by Fantasy Flight to WizKids, who make Attack Wing.

+1 for Necromunda. I really liked that game, the 3D aspect of the hive cities was pretty cool as were the RPG elements of having a gang.

I used to take my wife with me to my friends where I'd play WH40K. At first she just watched the game, then she wanted to participate. And now she has her own army, makes her own rosters and all that. Was kinda smooth for me. But enjoying one hobby with wife IS amazing)

I once drove for 5 hours in a car with my best friend and my wife in the backseat, we had just come from a great hobby shop, and spent almost the entire drive discussing 40k and the fluff. (up to this point she had just been a causal observer with a "boys will be boys" mentality and had zero interest in the game.) with little time left in the drive I think we gave her Stockholm syndrome because suddenly she wanted to collect and play space wolves. Try as we might to convince her not start she was determined. And now I have a small space wolves detachment that can assist my guard.

Dark vengeance box set. If I recall, it's pretty much playable out the box with the fast-start rules.

Space Hulk. Fast, simple rules, tactically challenging. And a lot of fun.

My wife's only familiar with 40k via the Space Marine video game. She makes jokes all the time about what the Orks say.

That's as far as it goes in our house. She has her pedicures, I have my miniatures, and neither of us wants to break that fragile separation.

 techsoldaten wrote:
She has her pedicures, I have my miniatures, and neither of us wants to break that fragile separation.

Everybody has something that other people just never quite get. It can be a good thing.