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Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Virginia

Greetings guys. Fair warning ahead of time, I'm probably going to type a lot, and it's going to be a bit of a rant. Queue "lolzors generic rant thread omglolbbq". I'm a bit bored at work, so I figured I'd express myself to you guys and just speak what's on my mind.

If you've seen me around on the forums, you've probably noticed a few things about me. Obviously I love Necrons, and I'm not a fan of the Imperium, as well as the idea of Battle-Brothers (Solo 2016! ). But I'll give you guys a little back story (the "Forum Index" button is right up there if this isn't what you're feeling right now).

Spoiler:

I've been playing wargaming in general for about a year and a half now, and have come quite a long way. It all started with a few of my friends during 6th edition 40k. A friend of mine showed me Dawn of War back in High School, and since then I have loved Necrons and had an appreciation for the world that was 40k. So a friend of mine got into Orks, one friend Space Marines, and my other friend continued to build upon his Dark Eldar (he'd been playing longer than us, obviously). So I hopped on board with Necrons, especially when I saw things that weren't in Dawn of War (DoW was based around 3rd edition, I believe). Flying baked goods, one-eyed sniper assassins, gliding mechanical shrimp, the grim reaper, and of course, the ominous Monolith (in DoW it was devastating, but I soon learnt otherwise....). This army was for me, no doubt about it.

Thus began my wargaming career.

I remember the amazing feeling of picking up my codex (my friend originally had let me look at a PDF before I decided to buy the codex), and I got a box of Warriors and some glue. Raced home, took an Exacto knife (Clippers? What were those??) and began to get to work putting them together. Oh, how excited I was. Within the next few weeks, I purchased a Doom Scythe, a battleforce, and some Wraiths. My first official game with my own models was against my Ork friend, and it literally came down to my Deathmarks kiting his Warboss and a few Nobz around the board, and he won off of kill points. Sure had fun though. Then I got some named characters (I'm looking at you, Imotekh), a Monolith, Immortals, and from there I just kept expanding. I was getting models faster than I could (or wanted to) paint. Life was good.

Then I started expanding into leagues. I did 2 at my local gaming store, running very non-competitive lists. My first league I ran something like Wraiths, a Doomsday Ark, Imotekh, warriors, a Flier or 2, ext. First game was against Tau, first game I ever played against them! He brought 3 Riptides, Broadsides and a Commander behind an Aegis line, two Devilfish, and a mix of infantry in ruins or behind the line. I killed a Riptide with a Necron warrior, in CC. Then I conceded. I swiftly chatted to the TO about the league, as it was advertised as a friendly "come play other people and learn the game" type scenario. Oh I was pissed. This guy was obviously a power-gamer, even with the way he carried himself. I was still a new player at the time, and this was not okay with me. He apologized and said that "Yes, he tends to do that, I should've thought about that, sorry!". I mean, I can't blame him, really. It was a lesson. A lesson that those people exist within this game. I had to learn sometime.

Then 7th edition came out in the middle of my second league. At this point, I was a pretty decent player. I was running a CCB overlord, 2 Ghost Arks, Wraiths, Fliers, 2 A-barges, ext. It was a decent list, but nothing cheesemongerly competitive. I ended up meeting some nice people in that league, and even made it to the top 8! But for simplicity sake, they kept with the 6th edition rules until the league was over, since people were still learning the 7th edition ones. I didn't have a problem with this....until......Taudar. My first game in the top 8 was against a guy (who I later found out is in the same "friend" group as the original Tau guy) who was running 2 Riptides with drones, one of which was accompanied by a Buffmander and a second Commander, the other was followed by a Farseer on a bike. Then he had 2 Skyrays, minimum squads of Firewarriors, and Kroot. Oh, and a 5 man squad of Dire Avengers, you know, cuz yeah. I thought to myself "I have no chance, this guy came to win, and I didn't bring anything that can fight this...". I played smart though. It was Emperor's Will. He got First Blood, I swept his Commanders and his Riptide with nothing but my Overlord's brazen might! Then my overlord got Smashed by the other riptide. So, Slay the Warlord and Slay the Warlord. Then it came down to Linebreaker. I had it, he didn't. It was a tie game! I couldn't believe it! "Oh, we can't leave it at a tie, we have to keep going until someone wins", he said. So he nova'd his Jetpack, and got linebreaker as well. And it was a loss. I was rather hurt by this, but honestly, I put up a hell of a fight. It was a great feeling! Though I will never play that guy again in my life. I also started to realize that GW had no idea what they were doing when it comes to balance.

Then we started learning the 7th edition rules. Man, there were so many things I was hoping they'd fix, and I eagerly looked through the book trying to find the things I thought they would set right. Ordnance! Oh man, is my Monolith good now?......No. Uhh.....okay. Well I'll accept it. Doesn't make sense, but whatever. Psychic powers. Nice, taking a bit from Fantasy, I see. I like. So, I only have to deny enough to that you fail to cast, right? Oh....OH. I have to deny every single warp charge, and on a 6....with at most, 6 dice. What is this heresy? Okay, okay. Well, at least Taudar is gone. Yes! Score! Oh man, and my vehicles are harder to kill? I'm liking it! Wait a minute, what's this here? Super Heavies? Gargantuan Creatures? I mean, I have a Transcendant C'Tan, but I never use it. It's too powerful. Wait, they're just apart of the game now? Uhh.....wut. So I bought Escalation for nothing? I can use this guy legally whenever I want? NO.

Overall, I felt 7th edition was a big swing and a miss. But it could've been worse, and for that I was thankful. So I started playing. Ran a CCB against my Space Marine friend. Completely mulched him. Damn, this thing is stupid good now! But, unfortunately, I started to realize a sad truth. I looked at Space Marines, and saw Fearless soldiers of the Imperium, the Emperor's finest. Decent special rules, equipped for any situation. Good CC characters, fluffy rules, options, ext. I looked at Tau. Supporting fire, damn, that's pretty good! Markerlights? Synergy! Something to make for their lack of CC, which is being good at shooting! I looked at Eldar. Oh, so this unit has W, X, Y, and Z special rules. And their gun does this, that, and the other. I looked at even Chaos Space Marines (Whoa now, this is going too far), and I was envious of their special rules! You can give these guys marks to represent different Gods? Dude, awesome! I looked at Tyranids. They require Synapse, sure, but that's awesome! I feel like it makes them tricky to play. And their units have different purposes, and they have....Special Rules!

I then looked at the codex I had come to know through and through, and have loved since day one. My Overlords hit Tac marines on 4s. My named characters feel like they don't know what they want to do, plus they have almost no special rules or decent weapons. I have no customization options. Warscythes were an auto-include, the other weapons weren't even worth the ink they were printed with. Destroyers, Lychguard, Praetorians, Tomb Blades, C'Tans, Lords, Monoliths, Doomsday Arks, Flayed Ones, and most of my characters were, in the grand scheme of things (actually no, in every scheme of things), completely useless! I started analyzing the game from a different perspective. My army was bland, grossly imbalanced within itself, and had 0 flavor at all. To make matters worse, my only special rule was straight up ignored half of the time. These were dark days for me. I had invested in every single unit in my codex (minus Flayed Ones. I mean, seriously, would you have?), and half, if not more, was not even worth putting on the table. I didn't even play in a super competitive meta, and they still weren't worth it!

And so I began to look elsewhere for enjoyment. I looked at Daemons. I really like the fluff of Tzeentch, and I usually play a wizard/necromancer is most RPGs, and this guy is all about spells. Heck yeah! Then I looked at the new Tyranid codex that had just come out. This seemed promising. So, on impulse, I bought the codex and the Tyranid Swarm box. I'm going to play a different army, one that is the exact opposite of mine! No vehicles, psychic powers, decent MCs, decent CC. And, they looked fun to paint! So, thus began my second army. I started getting some MCs, a Hive Tyrant, ext. Started playing some games. And man, I was doing well. Again, not in a competitive meta, but I had played Chaos, Tau, Space Marines, Eldar, Orks, Dark Eldar, and 90% of the time, I was winning. Man it was good feeling. I wasn't even running cheese. It made me feel good that people, like my girlfriend, were afraid of Tyranid Warriors. And occasionally, I'd play my Necrons if someone wanted me to. But it just wasn't....fulfilling. I won most games without resorting to cheese, mainly by walking forward and shooting one of two guns at things. Is that a vehicle? Gauss. Is that infantry? Gauss or Tesla. Is that an MC? I'm screwed. Is that 2+ armor? I'm screwed.

Then, there were the 7th edition codexes. Orks were the first. My friend was excited. We drove 2 hours one night just talking and discussing the new codex. He was not thrilled. I was confused. Yeah, they dumbed down some rules, yeah they took some things away, but they added some stuff too! But, it wasn't enough. They lost Fearless, which I agree doesn't make a lot of sense, and some of their wacky rules changed for the worse. I felt for him, I really did. We played a few games, with both my Necrons and Tyranids. He lost horribly every time. He then proceeded to quit the game entirely.

Then more codexes came along, at breakneck speeds! Space Wolves! They seem pretty solid. GW seems to be toning things down, dumbing some rules down, simplifying things, bringing everything into one streamlined power level. I'm okay with this. This is a change for the better, so keep it up GW! Grey Knights came out. They were still good. Can't complain there. Things got better, they got a few cool things, but overall, same trend. Dark Eldar came out. My friend was....disappointed, to say the least. Nerfs to things he liked, buffs to things that didn't need them. No increase in speed or survivability, rules that didn't matter. It was overall a very bad codex, but it was within the same trend of the other 7th edition codexes. They also removed Wracks as troops. This has been another trend. Removing things as troops. I'm like, "Okay, GW wants armies to take more standard troops, and they wanna sell them, damnit!". So, I accepted it, and so did he. In fact, he's been doing rather well with the codex. Then Blood Angels. They were toned down, lost Assault Marines as troops. That hurt, but it kept with the trend. Overall it seemed like a decent dex. Then, my turn. Oh, I was ecstatic. Rumors started flowing of the changes....huh? Mindshackle Scarabs? They're.....useless. Really? That was our one thing we had in CC! Transcendant C'Tan became really....really bad. Tesla was nerfed, made more expensive, and didn't get any extra rules to make it worthwhile. Overall, wasn't liking what I was seeing. Then the codex came out. I was surprised. Special rules! Flayed Ones gained Shred and Fear??? Overlords are decent now? Every single unit has become good? Wow, I was happily surprised, it was a dream come true! Then I read the Decurion. Oh my....a fluffy way to give my army even more special rules? Pinch me. Reanimation actually being good? Synergy options throughout the codex? GW, you have not only proven yourself capable of balancing a codex internally, you have saved me from disliking this game. Or so I thought.

So I started buying more, painting more, playing more. In fact, I shelved my Tyranids for awhile. I was dominating. The Decurion was just too much. Everyone hated Necrons, people reluctantly played me. That's a gakky feeling, I must say. I wasn't even running Destroyers or Wraiths all the time, I mostly ran infantry and some vehicles. But, the confusing part of it all, was the sheer power difference. Necrons started a new trend, and I not only felt bad for playing them, but felt bad for earlier codexes that missed out on this treatment. Why was I the lucky one? But, lets wait and see how the rest of the codexes fair up. Harlequins. Nice, making them their own army. Formations, not too shabby. Then Khorne Daemonkin. Keeps the same trend, but...copy paste much? They didn't fix anything that was wrong with the units in the first place...now that's just lazy. Then the next codex was up. I was praying for Chaos Space Marines, man did they need it! My girlfriend was constantly going up against Necrons. You can imagine how that would fair. Then the rumors. ELDAR? Why do they need an update? They already have an amazing codex! Wait, I've got it! They nerfed everything that was cheesy from the 5th edition Necron codex, so that's probably it. They're probably trying to tone them down as soon as possible, since they are really powerful. They did it with Necrons, it only makes sense!

Then the codex dropped. Oh....my....god. Wraithknight is a Gargantuan Creature, shooting D weapons, and is cheaper than my Obelisk! My Transcendant C'Tan became an MC at 250 points, then made the Wraithknight a GC for 45 points more! The feth? Wraithguard with D-weapons? In regular games? Who wants to play with that in regular games? Okay, okay, calm down. Fluff-wise I guess it makes sense, at least they got more expenvi....nope. Okay....well. The Wraithknight at least makes sense that it's a Gargantuan Creature, so, alright. I'll live with it. Now jetbikes. Dark Eldar jetbikes are Fast Attack and got nerfed. Eldar jetbikes were troops that magically gained a 3+ armor save because reasons. They were stupid good in the last codex, and a lot of people hated them. They had to have nerfed th-nope again! So, they kept them as a troop choice, and now every model can take a heavy weapon? Whatib[e biergoeurhgqegfhwrovgnorewgowrge??R:$!?! Why on earth would they.....oh. There's a new kit to sell. Boom goes the dynamite, that's why they did it.

Okay, well, if that is all, then I can live with....no, oh god, no. A better psychic phase? Better powers? Aspects getting more special rules at no cost? Not only does this not keep with the trend, but it literally gaks on other codexes. Here you go Howling Banshees, here's more stuff. "Oh, what's that Wyches? No, you don't get good stuff. In fact, I'm taking away your Haywire Grenades.". "But daddy! The elves across the street get good stuff! They even got more stuff! Why take away our toys?". "Because dear, life isn't fair, and because Allies." Hey Dark Eldar, like that new $80 dollar bomber you guys got? Eldar have a $60 dollar bomber that is also cheaper in game and infinitely better. Thought your Scourges were cool and could fly through the air? Nah, they just Jump infantry. Dem Swooping Hawks doh, they need to be faster. Ey yo Dark Eldar, your Archons don't know how to ride a bike. "But I thought you never forget how to ride a bike?" Dark Eldar do. But Eldar? Here's a brand few Farseer on a bike. Buy it!

Then there was Adeptus Mechanicus. Alright, cool faction, adding new stuff to the game, alright. Then Cult Mechanicus, okay. I was actually just thinking how "You know what would be healthy for this game? Another army that can spam S6. BUT, only if it can potentially ignore cover, and is also AP3. I thought this game had too many armor saves, we don't have enough that can ignore them. It would also be nice if they could spam Grav, too. Maybe through in some more MCs-that-should-be-walkers." GW delivered with Admech.

Okay, okay. I'm falling too far into this rant. Let me take a breath. Phew. Okay. It's not the end of the world. Let's see how the rest of the codexes pan out. Space Marines? Wait, what about Chaos? Why do Space Marines need a new codex so early too?? Okay, maybe they'll nerf the stuff that needs it. Maybe they'll get it right with this one, maybe. Grav Cents need to be toned down, well Grav in general, really. They should take away bikes as troops, because trends. Shield Eternal is stupid, and they'll probably get rid of it. Chapter Masters don't have a model, if I remember correctly, so they'll probably be removed, so no more Smashfether! Maybe, just maybe. Wait....no. It's just 20 points to upgrade to one? Ugh. Okay. Shield Eternal is...still there. Great, so they didn't kill that build at all. Grav Cents are still just as good, so that build stayed. But wait, ders more! Did you need to eat, breath, sweat and bleed Grav? Well, you got it! Because new models to sell! Then, of course, Gladius and Skyhammer, which we all know about.

I give up.

At least Dark Angels only got a 2+ rerollable cover save. That's the most tame out of it all.

I enjoyed the short time in which I could play C'Tan shards and infantry and not only do well, but have fun. Now? The game is diluted with GCs, Super Heavies, min/maxing, stupid formations, AP2/3, bikes, bikes, bikes, allies, ext. Now, I have to bring Destroyers or Wraiths to even have a chance. And competitive? Oh, lordy. I don't even wanna look at it. Taxi services left and right, allies plugging holes in armies that don't need those holes plugged. All the while we have Codex: Flyrants that struggles even in casual games now if they run anything less than 5 Flyrants, Chaos Space Marines that might as well not exist as a playable army, Orks that have, like, 2 builds worth anything? Blood Angels and Space Wolves that can't keep up with vanilla, and Dark Eldar that see the light of day as a Codex: Eldar supplement.

I recently got into Star Wars X-Wing, and man was it a breath of fresh air. Balanced rules, every ship is usable, not too expensive. I actually went to a tournament, a legit tournament (I am in no means a competitive, tournament goer, in any game) and actually won running things that people don't typically use! Man, that was a great feeling. And then I realized that I haven't expanded upon my armies in 40k for awhile. There's so many things I want to buy for my Necrons and Tyranids. But, why? Tyranids are terrible, so might as well box them up until a new codex. And Necrons are now struggling to compete, and I can't play the units that I enjoyed playing anymore. I'm in this for the game, but I'm realizing it's the game that I hate the most. Don't get me wrong, I love my Necrons to death, I really do. But, I wish they existed in a completely different game, made by a completely different company. I'm slowly slipping away from this game. I've been browsing these forums every day, but it's been slowly more and more about X-wing, or just answer rules debates or discussing how to fix OP armies. Do I really enjoy this game anymore? Is it even worth playing? Or is it even a game? Is it just "Models that have rules".

I hate playing a game where the odds are stacked against me, before anything even starts. "Hey man, wanna play Mortal Kombat?". "Sure bro, lets do it". "Oh, I suck with this character, got my ass kicked, but I can do better! Just gotta practice."

"Hey man, wanna play 40k?". "Sure, I'm playing a fluffy Chaos Space Marine army". "Oh, I'm playing a fluffy Saim Hann army". "Nice! I won't even unpack my models, you win! You deserve it!" That's the kind of game I wanna play. Not. I love how someone can win before the game starts. Totally worth the thousands of dollars invested, right?

No. No it's not.


TL;DR: Game is broken, codexes are unbalanced, losing interest in the game, x-wing is cool.


So I believe that's all I have to rant about. For those who stuck around for the journey, I thank you. This was simply meant for me to have a space to rant and discuss issues that I feel strongly for. I know I've probably opened the floodgate for internet hate and snarky comments, but it's whatever. I spoke my peace, and I appreciate anyone who read it and if you enjoyed it, than I feel good. I'm going to take an extended hiatus from 40k. I don't know if I'll return, and if so, when. I'll check out some of the new codexes that come out (Because Tau need to come out before Chaos Space Marines, amirite?), but that's about it.

Please share your opinions, I would love to hear them. Does anyone else feel the same way that I do? If so, why? And if not, explain why you enjoy this game, and how you're coping with the issues of power creep and glaring imbalance.

Thank you for your time.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/09/08 18:00:26


40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty  
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I think you have some serious 40k woes, but I think that's more about game balance as opposed to how good of a game it is. I ranked it 9 out of 10. I don't think there's a lot out there that captures the breadth and scope of a game of 40k - and I've played this game for 15 years! Yeah, my first games vs the new Necrons with my Tyranids was awful, and sure when they redo Chaos they're actually going to make them worse, because someone at HQ has a raging for Eldar and Necrons, but I don't feel like that's where I enjoy my 40k most. Competitive 40k is one thing; having my games with buds is another.

Try mixing things up a bit. Try Kill Team, or Combat Patrol, and see just how different those games can be. Maybe try homebrew missions, or campaigns, and go out of your way to impose some extra hindrances and extra rules. There's more to the game than just the codex and the wills of the internetz.

 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle




Leicester

I don't but because I'm of the opinion of I don't care how good your codex's rules are I will find a way to win with my under dog army lol even if that means having to be a better player lol
   
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

2.

5th edition got a 6.

The game always had problems. 40k really is a disastrous game. It's just so omnipresent it's difficult for many to compare it to anything else than itself.

I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a  
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




Phoenix, Arizona

You lost me when you said your Necrons struggle to compete.

Sometimes, the only truth people understand, comes from the barrel of a gun.
 
   
Made in ca
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler






tldr; The game is unbalanced, and the power creep is real, so OP is slowly getting out and start X-wing.

Totally agree with you man lol. I don't even play so much these day and I feel like I need a 40k break lol. Just invested in another smaller board game close to SNES JRPG. Hopefully that will keep me going for some time.

And yeah, long post while at work: I understand you lol.

Ahriman + 1 TSons squad: Painting in progress. Will gift them to my bro at Xmas!
2000+ Tau: Painting in progress. http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-78163-46237_Tau%20Battelforce.html 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Virginia

 Vryce wrote:
You lost me when you said your Necrons struggle to compete.


How did I lose you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 PandaHero wrote:
tldr; The game is unbalanced, and the power creep is real, so OP is slowly getting out and start X-wing.

Totally agree with you man lol. I don't even play so much these day and I feel like I need a 40k break lol. Just invested in another smaller board game close to SNES JRPG. Hopefully that will keep me going for some time.

And yeah, long post while at work: I understand you lol.


Yeah, it's been an issue growing within me for a few months now. I know it was a long post, but I like to be thorough when I explain myself.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/04 15:36:16


40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty  
   
Made in gb
Revving Ravenwing Biker




England

 krodarklorr wrote:
How did I lose you?

Necrons are considered a horribly OP faction right now. Even if you don't bring the "big cheese" you should be able to compete.

Don't believe me? It's all in the numbers.
Number 1: That's terror.
Number 2: That's terror.
Dark Angels/Angels of Vengeance combo - ???? - Input wanted! 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Virginia

 Yarium wrote:
I think you have some serious 40k woes, but I think that's more about game balance as opposed to how good of a game it is. I ranked it 9 out of 10. I don't think there's a lot out there that captures the breadth and scope of a game of 40k - and I've played this game for 15 years! Yeah, my first games vs the new Necrons with my Tyranids was awful, and sure when they redo Chaos they're actually going to make them worse, because someone at HQ has a raging for Eldar and Necrons, but I don't feel like that's where I enjoy my 40k most. Competitive 40k is one thing; having my games with buds is another.

Try mixing things up a bit. Try Kill Team, or Combat Patrol, and see just how different those games can be. Maybe try homebrew missions, or campaigns, and go out of your way to impose some extra hindrances and extra rules. There's more to the game than just the codex and the wills of the internetz.


Having a game with the buds is where the game is best for me, but even that's...diminishing. One guy plays strong Space Marine lists, one plays Eldar, some people play full on Admech, but then you have my Dark Eldar player, who doesn't even really play anymore. Or my girlfriend who plays Nurgle marines. Even within the confines of a friendly group, imbalance takes its toll.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CrashGordon94 wrote:
 krodarklorr wrote:
How did I lose you?

Necrons are considered a horribly OP faction right now. Even if you don't bring the "big cheese" you should be able to compete.


Sure, against Chaos, or Dark Eldar. Maybe Orks. But the way things are going, if you show up to Tau, Eldar, Space Marines, Admech, Imperial Knights, Daemons, or any combination of the like, if you don't bring Wraithspam or Destroyer spam, you get munched.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/04 15:40:25


40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Hi OP, this is Decurion. What?

You have all the tools in that codex that you need to kill opponents. Night Scythes, Tomb Blades, CCBs, Tesla, AnniBarges, Scarabs. There's nothing wrong with that codex...it's considered right up there in the power level with Eldar and Daemons. If anything, I'd say Necrons are up there with Eldar, the difference being that they trade firepower for durability but keep similar speed.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/04 16:02:31


Tier 1 is the new Tactical.

My IDF-Themed Guard Army P&M Blog:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/355940.page 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





Denver, Colorado

I feel as if 40k is still a good game, and has got a good foundation of popular fluf, solid gameplay and mechanics. I think the rules are good, overall, but feel as if GW should be in the habit of releasing FAQs, as they once did, to clarify issues and ambiguities that come up.

The codexes, on the other hand, are starting to become an issue to me.

Orks was an unmitigated disaster, and whoever wrote it seems to barely know how the rules work, much less how orks work.

Then came necrons, eldar, SM, each more OP than the last, and it's never been more evident that GW holds itself as a collectible company first, and a rules company second. And that's a problem when people want to play with said collectibles.

Overall, I really feel as if there's a good foundation for the game and IP, but whoever's in charge is paying zero attention to balance - they're just making FOTM codexes to push models.

I'm really waiting to see what happens in the rumored CSM & Tau codexes, and if they'll do anything to arrest the codex creep of they're just going to double down with OP nonsense.

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. 
   
Made in us
Fiery Bright Wizard






Idaho

 krodarklorr wrote:
 Yarium wrote:
I think you have some serious 40k woes, but I think that's more about game balance as opposed to how good of a game it is. I ranked it 9 out of 10. I don't think there's a lot out there that captures the breadth and scope of a game of 40k - and I've played this game for 15 years! Yeah, my first games vs the new Necrons with my Tyranids was awful, and sure when they redo Chaos they're actually going to make them worse, because someone at HQ has a raging for Eldar and Necrons, but I don't feel like that's where I enjoy my 40k most. Competitive 40k is one thing; having my games with buds is another.

Try mixing things up a bit. Try Kill Team, or Combat Patrol, and see just how different those games can be. Maybe try homebrew missions, or campaigns, and go out of your way to impose some extra hindrances and extra rules. There's more to the game than just the codex and the wills of the internetz.


Having a game with the buds is where the game is best for me, but even that's...diminishing. One guy plays strong Space Marine lists, one plays Eldar, some people play full on Admech, but then you have my Dark Eldar player, who doesn't even really play anymore. Or my girlfriend who plays Nurgle marines. Even within the confines of a friendly group, imbalance takes its toll.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CrashGordon94 wrote:
 krodarklorr wrote:
How did I lose you?

Necrons are considered a horribly OP faction right now. Even if you don't bring the "big cheese" you should be able to compete.



Sure, against Chaos, or Dark Eldar. Maybe Orks. But the way things are going, if you show up to Tau, Eldar, Space Marines, Admech, Imperial Knights, Daemons, or any combination of the like, if you don't bring Wraithspam or Destroyer spam, you get munched.


I've seen non wraith and non destroyer spam do incredibly well against all of those armies, and I think your view on the matter may be skewed by either 1) only playing against players who only use the best of the best, or 2) you loosing interest, and almost hoping to use that as a reason to get out (not a bad thing, but a psychological thing people tend to do when they loose interest in things). I rated the game an 8 because, yeah, it has flaws, but outside of a competitive environment, most of those flaws are either ignored, or much less of an issue (excluding stomps, damn grumble grumble). I think that if you take the game out of the " my fluffy list is a scatter bike spam, because it's still fluffy" area, and open up to making scenarios for missions, playing things like kill team, and some of the more non-netlist-able things, the game gets better.

I played my first game against scatterbike spam + wraithknight yesterday with my 30k list at 1850, and I got stomped, bad. By the end of the game, I had 1 dreadnought left, however I had a great time because hot damn did I do some damage: Got the wraithknight stuck in against 26 marines, did all but 2 wounds before I got killed off, all the while a dread is running around punching stuff on the other table end, the end of turn 3 looked like the start of turn 5 or 6 model and unit count wise, there was just so much death so early. but I was fine with my 400 point terminator squad getting charged and stomped to death on 3 "6's", because it looked cool, and we had a good time. I've never been one to like tournaments or building the best list, and the game is more fun when you take it out of that play-style.

I wouldn't sell off all of your stuff yet, hold onto your 40k, and don't play it for a few months. come back to it later, playing for fun, casual matches, not tournaments or against net-lister's, and see if you still like it. Nothing hurts more then getting rid of all of your stuff, then getting hit by nostalgia, and not being able to play.

I'll never be able to repay CA for making GW realize that The Old World was a cash cow, left to die in a field.  
   
Made in us
On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List




I'm a new player to 40k, been playing for a good 6 months now. I have yet to run into all these problems you're talking about. I play necrons, and I find that they match up against all the other armies well. I have played against just about every army other than Dark Eldar, and my Necrons do fine. I have about a 50-65% win rate. The key I find to playing 40k is to actually talk/communicate with your opponent. Before I play a game at my local game store I speak with the other guy, show him my list, and ask what changes he would like me to make to create a fun, balanced game.

40k is not balanced, its not a competitive game. I feel sorry for people who try to make it competitive, but its not. Its paper,rock,scissors. Play the game for what it is and you will be fine. Speak to your opponents. Create lists that will fight well against one another and have a fun, balanced game. At that point, player skill, and a bit of luck will win, not list building.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Virginia

 Brennonjw wrote:

I've seen non wraith and non destroyer spam do incredibly well against all of those armies, and I think your view on the matter may be skewed by either 1) only playing against players who only use the best of the best, or 2) you loosing interest, and almost hoping to use that as a reason to get out (not a bad thing, but a psychological thing people tend to do when they loose interest in things). I rated the game an 8 because, yeah, it has flaws, but outside of a competitive environment, most of those flaws are either ignored, or much less of an issue (excluding stomps, damn grumble grumble). I think that if you take the game out of the " my fluffy list is a scatter bike spam, because it's still fluffy" area, and open up to making scenarios for missions, playing things like kill team, and some of the more non-netlist-able things, the game gets better.

I played my first game against scatterbike spam + wraithknight yesterday with my 30k list at 1850, and I got stomped, bad. By the end of the game, I had 1 dreadnought left, however I had a great time because hot damn did I do some damage: Got the wraithknight stuck in against 26 marines, did all but 2 wounds before I got killed off, all the while a dread is running around punching stuff on the other table end, the end of turn 3 looked like the start of turn 5 or 6 model and unit count wise, there was just so much death so early. but I was fine with my 400 point terminator squad getting charged and stomped to death on 3 "6's", because it looked cool, and we had a good time. I've never been one to like tournaments or building the best list, and the game is more fun when you take it out of that play-style.

I wouldn't sell off all of your stuff yet, hold onto your 40k, and don't play it for a few months. come back to it later, playing for fun, casual matches, not tournaments or against net-lister's, and see if you still like it. Nothing hurts more then getting rid of all of your stuff, then getting hit by nostalgia, and not being able to play.


I don't think I could ever go through with selling it. I sold off what little Daemons I had for fantasy and immediately regretted it, and I didn't even play them hardly ever. I may come back, but I doubt it more and more every day. I want to come back. I want to enjoy it. I also want to play C'Tan shards, Annihilation Nexuses, Monoliths, and Apoc games where I have a decent Super heavy. This day and age, none of that is possible, and the first 3 would be a huge hindrance to myself.

40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty  
   
Made in ca
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp




 krodarklorr wrote:
Oh, how excited I was. Within the next few weeks, I purchased a Doom Scythe, a battleforce, and some Wraiths. My first official game with my own models was against my Ork friend, and it literally came down to my Deathmarks kiting his Warboss and a few Nobz around the board, and he won off of kill points. Sure had fun though. Then I got some named characters (I'm looking at you, Imotekh), a Monolith, Immortals, and from there I just kept expanding. I was getting models faster than I could (or wanted to) paint. Life was good.

Then I started expanding into leagues.
I think it's pretty obvious where your 40k experience started to develop issues. Draw your own conclusions....
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Virginia

Salous wrote:

40k is not balanced, its not a competitive game. I feel sorry for people who try to make it competitive, but its not. Its paper,rock,scissors. Play the game for what it is and you will be fine. Speak to your opponents. Create lists that will fight well against one another and have a fun, balanced game. At that point, player skill, and a bit of luck will win, not list building.


It is very rock/paper/scissors, But some armies have a ton of rocks, plenty of paper and scissors (Eldar, Space Marines), while other armies are all rock (Necrons), and some armies have almost no paper, rock, or scissors (Dark Eldar, Orks, Chaos Space Marines).

40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




There is no balance. Not exactly a newsflash, btw...
   
Made in us
On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List




 krodarklorr wrote:
Salous wrote:

40k is not balanced, its not a competitive game. I feel sorry for people who try to make it competitive, but its not. Its paper,rock,scissors. Play the game for what it is and you will be fine. Speak to your opponents. Create lists that will fight well against one another and have a fun, balanced game. At that point, player skill, and a bit of luck will win, not list building.


It is very rock/paper/scissors, But some armies have a ton of rocks, plenty of paper and scissors (Eldar, Space Marines), while other armies are all rock (Necrons), and some armies have almost no paper, rock, or scissors (Dark Eldar, Orks, Chaos Space Marines).


Thats why this game is not worth playing competitively. If you want a good, competitive match, then have both players build their army lists together, know what the other is doing, and take a list that matches up well against each other. Don't play against people who want to keep a secret list, and don't play against people who want to bring a counter to every unit you have. Those people are not worth playing against.

In my 6 months I have only ran into one person like that. Everyone else is more than willing to work together to make a good game. You're spending 2-4+ hours a game, it only makes sense to me that both sides make an effort to create a fun game that both will enjoy.
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos




Phoenix, Arizona

 krodarklorr wrote:
 Vryce wrote:
You lost me when you said your Necrons struggle to compete.


How did I lose you?


Next to Eldar, Necrons simply have the most broken and OP 'dex currently in circulation. SM can stand up to them, but mainly due to Skyhammer and Gladius formations.

Decurion, Canoptyk Harvest - these things exist. You may not play them/use them, but you don't get to make a blanket statement that your Codex struggles because you don't use them. Your army LIST may struggle, but your CODEX, most certainly does not. Even without those formations, the basic Necron warriors are arguably some of the best standard troops available in the game. They have a basic weapon that can wound any toughness and can glance any vehicle. They get a rule that is better than FnP - built right in to the model - that can easily be augmented to be even better by a properly equipped Lord. And as far as I can recall, these abilities extend to just about every model in your army. Necrons don't "struggle". Probably the -only- Codex I would concede to be superior to Neceons is Eldar.

However, I will agree with you about your overall premise, that the game is not what it used to be and the power creep is real. Some armies - your girlfriends CSM, your friends Dark Eldar, Orks, certain flavors of SM, and Astra Militarium (what used to be Imperial Guard) are simply terrible. But, to an extent, all editions have suffered from this to a degree; there was always a codex or two at the bottom of the pile that simply couldn't compete on equal footing with anything - and this was back when, overall, the general rules were much tighter and better written. However, they've never been perfect.

Sometimes, the only truth people understand, comes from the barrel of a gun.
 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





story of my life.

Played CSM for 6 years and always struggled to win. Sold 75% of army at huge lost. Learned that eldar will always be op cheese. saw how flyers break the game.and then saw SHV and GC enter the game to break the game more.

still have expensive paint and cases. I had just enough money to buy 5 second hand IK.

The game can never be balanced because if it was then the be little to no reason to buy a new codex. They release a new codex with imba stuff so you would buy the flavor of the month.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 krodarklorr wrote:
Having a game with the buds is where the game is best for me, but even that's...diminishing. One guy plays strong Space Marine lists, one plays Eldar, some people play full on Admech, but then you have my Dark Eldar player, who doesn't even really play anymore. Or my girlfriend who plays Nurgle marines. Even within the confines of a friendly group, imbalance takes its toll.


Well, as someone whose been in the hobby for 15 years, let me tell you the secret;

"Every game is broken if you try to break it."

This even applies to your games where you try and address the imbalance by taking the less-than stellar things. The problem may be that your group, which started on an even playing field, has moved beyond that. When you started, you probably pictured all factions as being somewhat balanced, but over this year and a half you're now noticing the imbalances that were already there. Put on top of that continued investment in the game from yourself (you've seemed to amass quite the collection in a year and a half!), and continued games where you're probably learning how to play well at an accelerated pace, and there's no wonder that you now have a clear hierarchy of players.

I think another part of the problem, as I've read from your previous posts, is that you are playing lists that feel the same very often. Maybe take out your Tyranids again! Say "Sorry Necrons, gonna hang you up for now". I play Eldar, Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Harlequins, and Tyranids, and have Space Marines, Tau, and Necrons in the wings... I can tell you that diversity of games is important. Also, try finding some others in your area who are willing to take you on with the top-tier stuff. That'll be really enjoyable as you get better! Then you won't be looking to satisfy that need with your friends, and you'll see the game fresh again.

 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

Still playing, still enjoying it.
Sure some rules are frustrating, others unclear and some down right annoying but overall its fun.
Not much else to add really.

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in br
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

The game is good and fun, but has balance problems and the rules are pretty disorganized. It needs an 8th ed (after all codexes are released in 7th) to put everything in place, more organically.

AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

7. Good, could be better. No intentions to quit.

Welcome to the Freakshow!

(Leadership-shenanigans for Eldar of all types.) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I gave it an 8, because the base game for me is a 6 and with the houserules and group I have it is a 10

   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

I gave it an 8. I agree about the power creep and stuff, as I know what it is like to have a bottom tier army (6th edition DA sucked balls). Of course, even if I played Eldar or 'Crons, I might still lose because I am still very much learning strategies and tactics. I have no intention to quit anytime soon, but rather to keep playing games until I learn some better strategies!

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





USA

I gave it a 7, as it's not super bad but generally suffers from balance issues.

Also, I wish the OP had some perspective with playing an actually underpowered codex, like Guard or Orks. The rant might be the same but at least they'd have the viewpoint from an army that's suffering this edition.

Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
3rd Company (3000 points) 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





The core rules have issues, but are basically solid. The codices are worse off, but most imbalance issues could be fixed with simple point increases or decreases.

I gave it a 7 simply because, for all of its faults, 40k is no worse than most other games on the market, and if you cooperate with your opponent you can have a very good gaming experience. It's really no worse or better, rules wise, than Warmachine, Flames of War, or the innumerable historical games I play.

Madness is however an affliction which in war carries with it the advantage of surprise - Winston Churchill 
   
Made in us
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





Been playing since 1998 and still loving it [9 out of 10 rating for me]. In that time I have witnessed the same cycles over and over. Players invests heavily in one play style and then something changes and they cry imbalance (not saying that is you, OP, just a general comment). If one rushed out and bought 9 flyers as soon as the Necron flyer was introduced, then one deserves the disappointment a year later when the rules for other armies catch up.

My only piece of wisdom from all that experience playing is that the same imbalance that each wave of players complain about is what keeps the game from becoming stagnant and boring. Its what killed Fantasy in the end. If the game was perfect (such a thing can never be achieved, and everyone has had a different view on which version is the best), then players would play the same army and grow bored and move on. Instead, a new codex comes out or a new edition that opens up new possibilities of play to be explored. The perfect example of this was 5th edition [or was it 4th?] when the game devolved into whoever had the most long-range fire power combined with the best armor generally won. Of course many Imperial Guard players have been disappointed with 6th and 7th edition because their forces became less effective. I also remember when a unit of Khorne bikers could annihilate 50% of my army because they could charge from one unit to the next in the same phase due to sweeping advance. Then it changed, again, and again, and again. And while some people were jaded and disappointed, others were excited because now it turned in their favor.

In my opinion, many people have immensely high expectations for a game that is so extremely complex (there really isn't anything else like it) with so many armies, units, weapons, equipment, special gear, etc. It is madness to ever expect them to perfect a system that is above the potential for exploitation (because that is what is really causing most players' bad experiences). Are there examples of them being sloppy, making mistakes, etc.? Yes, plenty. Do I wish they would do better? Yes, obviously. But, here's the dirty little secret of it all, codices created during the same edition of core rules are usually very balanced between one another (Necrons, Eldar, Space Marines)...so they are making positive headway. Are their business practices reproachable? Hell yeah, but next time look at what major food corporations are doing or, god forbid, the banking industry. Corporations are fairly evil regardless of what their business is.

The rapid shift from 6th to 7th got a lot of people upset (and perhaps rightly so) but man was it incredibly necessary. Too many big changes happened too quickly with over watch, flyers, super heavies, etc. that the core system was beginning to crumble. I was immensely happy to see 7th when it dropped. It wasn't perfect, but I never expected it to be. It is my favorite version of 40k to date because I remember the problems of the old editions just as vividly as the good parts. I love that 7th allows for variety of armies like no edition, since it fits the fluff and allows you to customize your own forces to a degree that never previously existed. If players abuse that - well, that is on them and not the game designers. Also, Maelstrom missions - while obviously not perfect - balance the game to a far greater degree than people often give it credit. I routinely take "fluffy" lists that are "noncompetitive" and more often then not win. And even if I don't - who really cares as long as the battle was fun? At the end of the day, this is a hobby and like any hobby, a lot of one's personal interest in it requires investment and effort on their part. If you love to kayak white water rapids, but only ever go to the same set of rapids every time you will get bored of it. 40k is no different and it is strange to me that so many people appear to expect GW to keep them interested instead of taking the initiative on their own. I noticed enthusiasm for 40k was on the decline in my local gaming community, so I offered to run a narrative campaign and behold! a whole range of players are coming every night of the campaign full of excitement. Again, the customer has every right to expect them to produce a worthwhile product, but one should also remember that their definition of what constitutes that isn't universal.
If
I do not pretend to know everyone's situation, nor their local gaming scene. I also cannot speak for everyone's interests with the game and the faults that they find in it. So, if what I am saying resonates with you, then great, and if it is just rambling, then ignore it.

Active armies, still collecting and painting First and greatest love - Orks, Orks, and more Orks largest pile of shame, so many tanks unassembled most complete and painted beautiful models, couldn't resist the swarm will consume all
Armies in disrepair: nothing new since 5th edition oh how I want to revive, but mostly old fantasy demons and some glorious Soul Grinders in need of love 
   
Made in ca
Angry Blood Angel Assault marine




5/10

The biggest things for me are:
1) the increasingly rock-paper-scissor nature of the game if you don't houserule and format things. Nothing worse than getting curbstomped because your army has no reasonable method of dealing with the opponent.
2) the bloated, innefficient, slow as molasse unfaqed rules. 40k needs some streamlining something fierce.
   
 
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