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Hi guys I was hoping you would be able to help me out as I'm having A lot of trouble winning games with my list, I'd go as far to say that I lose 90% of my games. This is my go to list when playing 1500 points.

Rune priest. 60 pts
Lvl 1

Wolf guard battle leader. 168
Thunder wolf
Wolf claw
Storm shield

6x grey hunters. 186
6x close combat weapons
1x plasma gun
Lascannon razorback

6x grey hunters. 186
6x close combat weapons
1x plasma gun
Las cannon razorback

10x grey hunters. 225
10x close combat weapons
2x plasma guns
Rhino

6x Thunder wolf cavalry. 355
2x wolf claw, storm shields
1x Thunder hammer, storm sheild
3x bolt pistol, close combat weapons

1 lascannon predator. 140
Side sponson las cannons


6x long fangs. 175
1x ancient
2x lascannon
3x missile launchers

My normal tactics are to put the rune priest with the long fangs for prescience and the battle leader with the twc. The predator sits on a home objective as well as the long fangs on one and the grey hunters go objective capping and the twc go to try and kill stuff. The problems I seem to be getting is the rhinos are so easy to kill leaving the grey hunters open and they just seem to get whipped out. What would you guys do/ change to this list ? The reason for the lascannon razor backs is the increase in knight players and other high armour/ toughness stuff.

Also what would you guys do to take this list to 1850 points ? I've got a tournament coming up in November and I really don't want to be the wooden spoon guy again.

I do have a knight but haven't really enjoyed using it but I don't mind using other allies.

Well, I'd go Drop Pods over Rhinos and Razorbacks, for the very reason you mentioned - light armor gets popped easily, then your Grey Hunters are foot-slogging across the field and will get annihilated at your opponent's leisure. Drop Pods could reasonably allow you to switch to Melta, as well, but I'd probably split into 3 units of 6-8 GHs, either 2 melta units and 1 plasma unit or 2 plasma units and 1 melta unit. The savings of dropping a couple guys and the Razorback upgrades may let you get a Wolf Guard Pack Leader for each unit. If you give him a Storm Shield and a combi-(whatever the pack is using), you've got more punch plus an Invulnerable save in the units.

For the Long Fangs, I'd rather go 3 Lascannons and 1 Missile Launcher (or 4 LC/1 ML). The Lascannons, of course, are much better for high armor, while Split Fire will allow the ML model to Frag Missile an Infantry unit or add a Krak Missile to whatever the LCs are shooting. Do your Long Fangs survive okay? Space Wolves have the benefit of synergy with ADLs - Quad Guns and Icarus Lascannons took a bit of a hit, this edition, since firing one means you're at full BS for the air but Snap Shots on the ground... however you can have your Ancient man the heavy gun, getting his full BS against Flyers, while the rest of the squad gets full BS against one ground unit, because of Splt Fire. Plus a nice cover save for a unit that can't move much. If they're doing okay without the cover, then you can ignore that...

I'm not sold on Predators, but I've never run one. If yours is working for you, keep it. But I'd probably use those points to beef up the GH units and add a unit of Fenrisian Wolves. If it's a reasonably big unit (10-15), you can get intervening model cover for your Thunderwolf Cavalry, and then the FWs can soak Overwatch when you're in Assault range. If you swap your Battle Leader for Harald, the FWs and TWC all get Furious Charge (as long as you keep them close enough).

I'd also consider splitting the 6 TWC into 2 units of three (still adding your HQ to one). One unit could go Bolt Pistol/Storm Shield, Bolt Pistol/Storm Shield, 2x Wolf Claws on the Pack Leader, with the WGBL using WC/SS, and that unit's going to wreck Infantry or light armor, while the other unit being Bolt Pistol/SS, Thunder Hammer/SS, and Bolt Pistol/Chainsword/Meltabomb for the Pack Leader, and that unit's for your heavier armor. If you do run Harald, you can put him in either unit, really, and then keeping the 3 FAs within 12" means all 3 units get Furious Charge in Assault, and they're all out of Template range of each other. The Pack Leaders get double weapons because the other models can Look Out, Sir! them if an Invuln is needed (plus they can be behind the other models).

For the 1850 list, I'd use basically all the suggestions above, beef the GH units to 10, and put an Iron Priest on a Thunderwolf Mount with the Thunder Hammer TWC unit (on a wolf, if he's close enough to benefit from Harald's Furious Charge, the IP is getting 5 S10 AP1 attacks with his Servo-Arm), and you can add some Cyberwolves to his unit as extra wounds and attacks (and Look Out, Sir! options), plus Harald's 2 FWs, if you take Harald (and, really, if you're taking 7 models on TWMs, you should be taking Harald). 8 guys on Thunderwolves plus as many as 17 FW and 4 Cyberwolves, all getting Furious Charge if you're careful with placement, is a lot for opponents to deal with, and it's not really even all that expensive.