Switch Theme:

Would now be a good time to get into Warmachine?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Sinister Chaos Marine




New Jersey

So I have been collecting and playing 40k on and off for many years, but my nearest FLGS closed and with it, many 40k players. There is another FLGS just a little bit further from me, but from what I have heard, it is more a Warmachine/Hordes store than 40k/AoS.

What I am mainly curious about is whether or not there are possibly any upcoming rule changes, edition changes, that will make my initial purchases obsolete? Games Workshop was notorious for doing this to me, or maybe I just always picked the wrong time to buy the books and whatnot.

Thoughts?

1500 pts.
1000 pts.

 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

I don't believe there are any rumors of a third edition (it's currently Mark II), or even of a remix (the term for a major shift in Mark I). the current rules are just over five years old, and have held up pretty well.

When they do an edition shift, you will need to buy a new core rulebook and new cards for any models you own, but all models will stay in the game. In Warmarchine, all models have rules, and all rules have models.

the internal balance of units might change between editions, but the game is tighter than 40k, so nothing becomes unusuably awful.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Who knows? If there is an edition change suddenly the most you'll be out is like $9-10 for a new set of cards. They keep their main rules online now and they aren't going to boot any products out of the lineup.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 tyro_neophyte wrote:
So I have been collecting and playing 40k on and off for many years, but my nearest FLGS closed and with it, many 40k players. There is another FLGS just a little bit further from me, but from what I have heard, it is more a Warmachine/Hordes store than 40k/AoS.

What I am mainly curious about is whether or not there are possibly any upcoming rule changes, edition changes, that will make my initial purchases obsolete? Games Workshop was notorious for doing this to me, or maybe I just always picked the wrong time to buy the books and whatnot.

Thoughts?


Privateer press work along a different way to gw. They don't really do frequent rule changes or edition changes, and they don't do codex updates every two years either. what they do are expansion books. Every year, they release a new book for each system with new casters,units etc for every faction and fluff that continues on the story arc. Now, these books are not mandatory purchases at all either. You get your cards with your purchase. And all the rules for that model are on the cards. If you want, but their war room app and buy the 'deck' of cards for your chosen faction - it automatically updates as pp release new stuff. So you don't need the latest expansion book to play. Wmh mk2 has been about for five years and is a solid game. It could do with some tweaks here and there, but overall is holding up extremely well and isn't creaking at the seams. Nothing has been spoken about or rumoured, but I wouldn't be surprised if pp released a remix of the core rules within the next 2 to 3 years, but there shouldn't be anything like that in the near future.

Pp doesn't do invalidation either. Some of the most played units and favourite characters in the game have been there since day1 and still see their fair share of table time. Their attitude is you should be able to play whatever models you like and at whatever game sizes.

Balance is good. it is very, very good in fact. They're generally seen as a poster boy for 'doing balance right'. There are issues - nothing is perfect, but the gap isn't huge and there are very very few duds. It's not like 40k where it is a poorly designed game and only some things are ever worth taking. In wmh, everything can be built into an effective game winning strategy. Bear in mind, this is not the same as saying everything is equally useful against everything else, equally well all the time. Synergy is key. Some things work great together, other things don't. Unit a and solo x work great together. Unit b and solo x have no synergy, but unit b works great with unit c. Wmh is about these synergies. Basically, there is a place for about 99% of what you'd like to buy.

greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

PP recently shifted to giving the rule books, PDFs, away for free. And there is zero indication that there will be a new edition any time, well, ever.

The miniature rules for each model/unit come on a card in the box. During the previous edition change, they packaged all the new updated cards into a deck you could buy for $8 per faction. If an edition change came, you'd only need to buy a new deck of cards.

PP also offers their card decks in a digital form through the app Warroom. The app is free, and each faction deck costs about $8. And includes any new cards that get released, forever. Its also a list builder and damage tracking app as well. You can build and play your lists from your device, though I recommend not using it on a phone as small screens aren't that great for it.

It used to be the only book you needed to buy was the rulebook, and now even that isn't true.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder




Rust belt

PP communicates with the community so you will know way ahead of time if anything is going to change. They are not like GW being a super secret company that treats their players like Gak.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

PP also has their own forums, which they are very active on.

They also have people called Infernals on their forums, who are their official rule question answerers. Their rulings are legally enforced in tournaments.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

And at tournaments there are judges. These people have final say on rules when they're there, and if they're all anything like our local judge they're great guys, on the ball with rule interactions that sometimes aren't even considered by the people at the table, and yeah. Really good to have around for a tournie.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in us
Master Tormentor





St. Louis

 motyak wrote:
And at tournaments there are judges. These people have final say on rules when they're there, and if they're all anything like our local judge they're great guys, on the ball with rule interactions that sometimes aren't even considered by the people at the table, and yeah. Really good to have around for a tournie.

There's actually a test to become a judge, IIRC. So yeah, strong rules knowledge is pretty much universal amongst them.
   
Made in us
Sinister Chaos Marine




New Jersey

Wow! Thanks for all the replies. So I just went to their site, and if I am looking at it right, I can download all of the rules for free. from Prime Mk. 2 I believe it is called. Would you also recommend the two player starter box as a good launching point. Is it decent value for the models in the box?

I guess I am just surprised at the info I just got. I am used to GWs way of doing things for so long that I was not ready to see all of that info provided.

Cheers!

1500 pts.
1000 pts.

 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

The two player set is a great value if you are interested in either army, but It's not a great value if you aren't.

Starting with the battle box for your chosen faction is usually the best way. Battle box games among new players, as they are just the contents of the box: a caster and a battlegroup (Jacks or beasts). While battle box games are not really indicative of the feel of larger games, they are balanced and fun games in their own right.
   
Made in us
Abel





Washington State

 tyro_neophyte wrote:
Wow! Thanks for all the replies. So I just went to their site, and if I am looking at it right, I can download all of the rules for free. from Prime Mk. 2 I believe it is called. Would you also recommend the two player starter box as a good launching point. Is it decent value for the models in the box?

I guess I am just surprised at the info I just got. I am used to GWs way of doing things for so long that I was not ready to see all of that info provided.

Cheers!


Try and find a local Privateer Press Press Ganger. We are a group of volunteers that love all things PP, and our primary "job" is to demonstrate and teach new players. Find your local Press Ganger here: http://privateerpress.com/support/customers

That Press Ganger should have, AT LEAST, two starter boxes of painted models to demo to you. Many (like me) have ALL the armies starter boxes to demo with. Play some games with your your PG, discuss the game, and they will give you an idea of how each faction plays. Yes, there are a lot of differences between each of the 12 factions.

The two player starter sets (one for Warmachine- Khador vs. Protectorate of Menoth, and one for Hordes- Legion of Everblight vs. Circle Orborus) are a very good place to start. You get a pocket sized rule book (not such a big deal now that the rules are free online), tape measure, dice, and a bunch of models. And the models aren't a one time demo use type. You will find yourself using those models in other army lists once you expand out. You are saving a pretty good chunk of change with the 2-player starter sets. The only thing is, there are 12 main factions in Warmachine/Hordes, and the two player starter box only represents four of those factions.

I can't recommend the Privateer Press forums enough to a new player. Go over there, register, introduce yourself. There are many, many sticky posts to help new players get into the game, and the community on the forums is very positive and willing to help.

I'm so excited for you for choosing to play this great game! Oh, the possibilities, learning new things, the lists you'll make... yeah, this is a fantastic game and I really hope you enjoy it!

PG_Tamwulf (look me up at the PP Forums!).

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

It's a good to consider WMH. The rule set is rather tight and the tournament rules are rather clear - see steamroller 2016.
The game is different if you come from 40k. But its fun to play. Getting into is almost expensive as getting into 40k, but you need no rulebook or faction codex.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Gun Mage





Depending on what faction you are interested in, the all-in-one boxes are a pretty good way to start thought they're getting hard to find.

But yeah, there's been nothing announced about an edition change and PP actually does announce things way in advance so we'd probably know if it was on the radar.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

I'd consider a WM faction rather than a Hordes one. Focus distribution management is easier than fury resource management.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/10 18:11:07


Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 wuestenfux wrote:
I'd consider a WM faction rather than a Hordes one. Focus distribution management is easier than fury resource management.


Two ways of thinking about this one. Focus and Fury both have pros and cons, neither is stronger or easier than the other. Major points to consider:

-Focus requires you to plan your turns in advance by allocating Focus ahead of time, Fury allows you to adjust your plans in the middle of the turn more easily and is more forgiving of the occasional failed charge or bad roll.

-Fury requires you to have warbeasts still on the table to generate resources for your caster to use, Focus means your caster has the same level of stuff consistently every turn regardless of how many warjacks are left alive.

-Focus requires your warjacks to be in your control area at the start of the turn for them to fight at full effectiveness, Fury requires your warbeasts to end their charge in your control area to fight at full effectiveness.

-Warbeasts tend to be stronger combatants than warjacks, warcasters tend to be stronger combatants than warlocks.


At the end of the day which system is 'easier' is probably going to come down to which system you started learning first. I started the game with Skorne and to this day Fury makes a lot more sense to me than Focus.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

True.

Warbeasts tend to be stronger combatants than warjacks, warcasters tend to be stronger combatants than warlocks.

Warbeasts tend to cost a bit more than warjacks.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Its also worth mentioning that Jacks tend to also have higher armor, more hp, and higher pow on their weaponry.

The average heavy jack with a dedicated melee weapon is usually pow17. The average heavy warbeast with a dedicated melee weapon is pow16.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in au
Tough Tyrant Guard







I found it easier to learn the game with fury than focus. Fury is more complicated, but it's way easier to grasp what the impact of using fury defensively will be than focus. To use camp focus effectively I find you need a much keener understanding of your opponent's models. ETA: though my recommendation would be "play the faction you want to play and don't worry about which is harder to learn, you'll figure it out."

Also, you mentioned "all the rules" for free. Have they released the rules for battle engines, colossals/gargantuans, caster units and beast swarms in pdf form yet? When I saw last, they just had the main rulebook and you needed to be able to run War Room to get the others. War Room is good and I can't recommend it highly enough for someone who wants to play the game, but some people still don't have a phone or tablet that can run it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/16 07:48:47


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




On focus v fury,

I think focus is the more straight forward system, and it's easier to learn (generate x focus points, pass to jacks, spend) but I go think fury is a more interesting system - it's far more intricate, you can do more with it, and for me, the interplay and mutually synnerginistic relationships between beasts and warlocks is far more interesting and dynamic- warlock and war beast buff each other in some ways, limit each other in other ways and their relationship is a huge and integral feature of the hordes game, more so than war casters and their jacks- war machines backbone is its infantry, which is supported by battle groups. Hordes backbone is its battlegroups, which is supported by infantry.

greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in us
Squishy Squig






There's a great community based out of "The Only Game in Town" in Somerville, NJ. Search for NJ SOBs on Facebook.
   
Made in us
Assault Kommando





Ha ha ha. I know what you mean man I used to be a big GW fan 8 years ago. No PP is not that kind of company. I still bust out my Winterguard and Juggernaut when I am list building and they are still awesome. If you don't know what they are, well they are like the first models PP came up with when they started Warmachine 10 years ago. In fact now is the best time to get in, but you have to wrap your head around some things. In 40k everything is very linear, Khorne does melee and Tau do shooting. In Warmachine every faction (with maybe the exception of Minions) can do a melee beat stick, a impenetrable block, a shooting force, but it is going to operate a little different. Shooting Khador does not work in the same way on a special rules level as Cygnar shooting. It has a feel of its own, heck, the Butcher is probably one of the best shooting warcasters in the Khador roster and his name is THE BUTCHER.

PP doesn't make its money by making units or models obsolete. It makes its money by offering new models for interesting combinations. Since most tournaments cap out at 50 points you want to buy different models to change how your army behaves. This is why all the forces get an update at the same time every year rather than one codex than another.

 
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Fake Englandland

marxlives wrote:
and his name is THE BUTCHER.

To be fair, I don't think they would ever name a caster Shooty Mc Shootington. No matter how great that would be.

Shadowrun is the best game ever. It's the only thing I have ever played in which I have jumped out of a shot out van with a chainsaw to cut a flying drone in half before leveling a building with ANFO assisted by a troll, a dwarf, an elf, and a wizard. 
   
Made in us
Gun Mage





 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
marxlives wrote:
and his name is THE BUTCHER.

To be fair, I don't think they would ever name a caster Shooty Mc Shootington. No matter how great that would be.

I think that should a nickname for Kara Sloan:
http://battlecollege.org/Captain+Kara+Sloan
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Fake Englandland

 TheWaspinator wrote:
 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
marxlives wrote:
and his name is THE BUTCHER.

To be fair, I don't think they would ever name a caster Shooty Mc Shootington. No matter how great that would be.

I think that should a nickname for Kara Sloan:
http://battlecollege.org/Captain+Kara+Sloan

I was thinking more Caine 2 personally, what's more shooty than rof Infinite?

Shadowrun is the best game ever. It's the only thing I have ever played in which I have jumped out of a shot out van with a chainsaw to cut a flying drone in half before leveling a building with ANFO assisted by a troll, a dwarf, an elf, and a wizard. 
   
 
Forum Index » Privateer Press Miniature Games (Warmachine & Hordes)
Go to: