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I've been following this project, good news:


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cewargames/polyversal-6mm-miniatures-game-system/description

Seemingly impressive rules and tracking, terrain add-on options, the EU friendly shipping and the box starter has minis from various systems that all look great together.
Excellent stuff.

Looks interesting at a glance, though I suspect the KS product/stock is built on the backs of a lot of bulk-discount sales of various companies product. Like the DZC Janus which is perpetually on Miniature Market deep discounts around holidays.

That said, if the core rules work, and the "build your own unit" pointing system is versatile enough, i'd happily put this alongside A Song of Blade and Heroes in my collection.

Very interesting initiative. Makes a lot of sense!

As long as their point costing/creation tool is powerful and allows for creation of units well outside their own fluff (IE, are there a wealth of melee, etc skills which could let me mock up a Tyranid Hive Fleet even though their game is hard sci-fi), then it could be something to really get excited about.

In for $120 at the moment.

Great interview with creator from a while back on Meeples & Miniatures podcast.
he indeed does want to encourage full enjoyment of the models and universe settings we find most appealing.

https://meeples.wordpress.com/2014/03/20/meeples-miniatures-episode-124-polyversal/

Had a chat with him at Historicon 2015 - game looks great! Also got to see the buldings first-hand - they are insanely cool.

The rules walkthrough video looked interesting, but the hexes seemed really crucial to the game, and only come with the full boxed set it seems?

For the custom hex creator, do you just provide art if you're using different models, and use preset stats? Having to "stat up" models would limit the utility of the ruleset beyond the limited model selection in the boxed set, and I wasn't clear if that's the case or not.

If feel like offering the rules with some hexes that have stats but could be customized would be more useful than just offering only rules or the full boxed set, since again the hexes seemed crucial and it'd be nice to have them on something other than just print-and-play paper for other units.

This might be a big ask, but what features or quirks would make Polyversal 'better' or more interesting than other new or upcoming 6mm rules - Laserstorm, Horizon Wars, Age of Tyrants etc?

 Vermis wrote:
This might be a big ask, but what features or quirks would make Polyversal 'better' or more interesting than other new or upcoming 6mm rules - Laserstorm, Horizon Wars, Age of Tyrants etc?

That I'm not certain. I like the game play video of their order sequence, and stress, and how the dice work for firing weapons. I am also excited that future expansions of combat tiles will be released, so if you don't want to make your own you will have high quality ones always incoming that you can buy your favorite minis to match.

As for Age of Tyrants, i'm backing that as well -- that looks VERY good too!

I think there is also always an appeal to the hobbyist/do-it-yourselfer in me, who likes the idea of simple, but effective rules, combined with a system of letting me stat and bring any models I like or own.

It also helps me cherry-pick models from different manufacturers instead of feeling quite as locked in.

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:

 Vermis wrote:
This might be a big ask, but what features or quirks would make Polyversal 'better' or more interesting than other new or upcoming 6mm rules - Laserstorm, Horizon Wars, Age of Tyrants etc?

That I'm not certain. I like the game play video of their order sequence, and stress, and how the dice work for firing weapons. I am also excited that future expansions of combat tiles will be released, so if you don't want to make your own you will have high quality ones always incoming that you can buy your favorite minis to match.

As for Age of Tyrants, i'm backing that as well -- that looks VERY good too!

I wish they were releasing this Only with combat tiles, rather than re-selling minis from other manufacturers that I can already get via other channels. It just seems like, since they're only releasing tiles with minis they're also including to match, it's a very limited tile selection than they could have done otherwise =/ and thus limits the utility of the system, at least for now...

If I'm missing something please point it out, as I do really like the ideas here!

Well, the stretch-goals imply that they would throw a lot of tiles into the core pledge as they go. We can only hope. The promise here is gigantic, and if it lives up to its potential, as I said, i'd LOVE to see a successful 6mm sci-fi analog to say Song of Blade and Heroes.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:The promise here is gigantic, and if it lives up to its potential, as I said, i'd LOVE to see a successful 6mm sci-fi analog to say Song of Blade and Heroes.

RiTides wrote:
I wish they were releasing this Only with combat tiles, rather than re-selling minis from other manufacturers that I can already get via other channels. It just seems like, since they're only releasing tiles with minis they're also including to match, it's a very limited tile selection than they could have done otherwise =/ and thus limits the utility of the system, at least for now...

If I'm missing something please point it out, as I do really like the ideas here!

Not to sound too much like a Jeremiah, but I just get a bad feeling about this. To begin with, I remember giving it a few glances first time, when it went absolutely nowhere. (It's dedicated boards over on Tactical Command - 'the home of 6mm sci-fi' - were distinctly tumbleweedish)
I also agree with RiTides that it's sending out some mixed messages. Quoting the kickstarter page:

We have partnered with six high quality miniatures and terrain manufacturers to bring the 6mm sci-fi wargaming community together in a single rules system compatible with everything 6mm.

On one hand it's being set up as one of the breed of big, glossy, high-production-values games, with proprietary rules and official minis and background and nicknacks* all in one box. On the other hand, that NewTruth's banking on, it's also billed as a universal rules system. The two concepts don't really mesh, and to some extent it feels like the folks behind Polyversal are trying to have their cake and eat it too.
How do Hawk feel about throwing in with what's essentially a competitor to DZC, for instance, in which their contributed models might be overlooked? (Ditto DRM's Seeds of War, if they still support it) Or on the flipside, will many players buying into the box-set mentality really give unofficial models without combatant tiles a second glance? There are more than six miniatures and terrain manufacturers in 'the 6mm sci-fi wargaming community', let alone in 'everything 6mm'. There are always exceptions, but in general I think it may make the system's universality a bit of a joke.

*'Hexagonal combatant tiles'. What a mouthful. It reads too gimmicky to my eyes. Like an infomercial, nearly. "Hey you! Tired of having to read everything? Well with our patented HCT® technology..." It's like the pseudo-convenience of official stat cards, but more so.
Well, it might actually be a bit more convenient, but d'you know what rolls off my tongue more conveniently than 'hexagonal combatant tiles'? 'Army roster sheet'.
(And I'm genuinely impressed they got a Hollywood concept artist to do the artwork for the tiles, but TBH that means diddly-squat to the actual gameplay, from my POV. I think it reinforces the perceived 'officiality' or 'validity' of minis that are or aren't included in the game.)

The rules... based on an initial glance, I like the sound of them. Polydice mechanics, activation system, build-your-own-stats, all things I like. But not things that are unique to Polyversal.
I dunno. Maybe this kickstarter will give it enough publicity to catch on and it'll become the new Epic, or something. But I just think that if the main thing you're waiting on, like NewTruth, is a truly universal 6mm sci-fi system, then my last post might have included a couple of better contenders.

I'll jump in as the publisher to hopefully clarify a bit of what we're doing.

Polyversal is attempting to do something special. Our intent, I think, is not a very common one. Most companies out there selling tabletop miniatures games are out to sell their models primarily. The rules are not necessarily the forefront. We're the opposite. And I can tell you- the rules are really good. We'll be previewing more of how the full system works as the campaign progresses. Ken Whitehurst and I have been quietly developing the system for years. I've been actively demonstrating it at every convention I exhibit at- and have done so for the past 3 years in prototype form. Retailers at the GAMA Trade Show are excited. Distributors are excited. Players who have seen it in person are excited. It just takes a bit of time to get the word out there. We don't have a massive marketing team and tons of advertising dollars, and, I'm actually a 1 man company... so, we're doing our best!

The kickstarter is the culmination of years of planning. We are now at the point in the development where we can go no further without some significant funding. Our goal is a real one- not a token amount that some set their Kickstarters at in order to 'overfund' massively. Some of those projects rely on the overfunding. Having run 4 kickstarters, mostly for my WWII games, I know to set a real goal, and I know the real costs. Having run the numbers a lot, and having completed production on 5 different games, I'm confident that the goal is exactly what we need. If we go beyond that, we'll reward everyone who supported a boxed game- by adding more combatant tiles and more miniatures to those boxes.

Polyversal is really several products and should appeal to both the DIY Gurus on the customization side... and those who want great miniatures and out-of-the-box playability as well. Again, we do not make miniatures at all. But since the game requires miniatures to play it, a boxed game is one option....

We've presented it this way to both attract those NEW to miniatures gaming (or even new to these manufacturers) and those who are veterans of the hobby with years worth of miniatures that may need new life.

Polyversal is:

1) It's an amazing and powerful universal rulesset for 6mm miniatures. The Design Tool will be web-based and can handle (generate stats for and a PDF Combatant Tile- those hex tiles) anything from about mid 20th century wheeled vehicles on out to the far future... Anything you already have or will purchase is legal in the game system. A points based cost system balances it all out. The way you design a Plasmablast Typhark Tank will likely differ from how I might do so, but, that's the beauty of it... We'll be encouraging the community to share their designs for others.

2) It's a boxed game. (Battlegroup Commander Pledge). The idea here is if you want to get exposure to multiple lines in one box, you can. We include minis from 5 manufacturers, with combatant tiles we design that Bruno Werneck (Tron) does the artwork for... This is for those of you who want to open the box, paint, and play. The boxed set is actually a good value. Yes, you can buy all of these miniatures elsewhere right now, and that's totally fine- they're existing products. But also in the box are the tiles we've made for them. It's exposure for smaller companies like Plasmablast. The thought is... if you like their Encegon Tank that's in the box... buy more from them and expand the game using the design tool.

3) It's a game also offered without the minis (Adjutant pledge). By request, we made a pledge level that gets you the rules, orders tokens, dice, etc., everything without the minis... for the DIY types, this is popular... you can use the design tool to create your own combatant tiles for whatever miniatures you want to use... old stuff, new stuff, old mechwarrior clicks... anything.

All of the above are expandable by you--- without waiting on us.... You can use the design tool to take the system anywhere. Design 300 tiles if you want. Play it, share it, expand it. You're not locked into one miniatures line. You don't have to wait on us to develop those tiles.

Making that all work has been our focus for the past several years. We're now seeking funding to make it all happen. Yes, the promise here is gigantic, but I'm confident that we can pull off something amazing. We're out to make a great system.

If you have any questions, please shoot them to me either on the project comments page or here.

 Vermis wrote:
This might be a big ask, but what features or quirks would make Polyversal 'better' or more interesting than other new or upcoming 6mm rules - Laserstorm, Horizon Wars, Age of Tyrants etc?

Vermis, as the designer of Polyversal, I can say that I have not seen Laserstorm, but I have read about Horizon Wars (and plan to buy it) and am currently backing Age of Tyrants on Kickstarter.

Polyversal differs from Horizon Wars because, as I understand it, Horizon Wars is focused a little more heavily on mecha and aircraft, with tanks being more generic. Polyversal treats all sci-fi vehicles with the same level of detail. It allows you to focus your army on whatever you want. If you want a force of all assault mecha, fine. If you want all mad-mad-style dune buggies and wheeled vehicles, it works for that too. Everything from aircraft to gravtanks to cavalry and infantry are covered in the rules.

As for Age of Tyrants, first, the difference is in the fact that AoT exists in a large and developed universe, already populated with beautiful artwork and years of background. To play Age of Tyrants is to play in that universe. I'm looking forward to it. That said, I want to see what will happen when my Syntha square off against the Eldar, or a hodge-podge of inner sphere mechs and some imperial guard tanks. Polyversal wl do that. AoT's rules are geared towards its universe. Polyversal's are designed to unify all miniatures into one coherent game. I hope that helps. If you want more detail on the structure of the rules, stay tuned to our Kickstarter. Byron will be releasing more detailed gameplay videos as we progress toward our goal. I will also be happy to answer them here.

Ken

Ken and Byron... As I said via KS correspondence, I sincerely believe in your high level vision, and feel there is a Song of Blade and Heroes shaped hole in the sci-fi and 6mm space, that you may well fill.

I wish you guys a lot of luck, because I would LOVE for this to work out.

A random consideration though... Any thought as to providing an offline version of the stat/design tool? In this hobby you know we love knowing our things will endure and we will have access to something we end up loving far into the future. It might be good to not have the core functionality of your system be a whims of a server.

Rules for promising systems like All Quiet on the Martian Front, have all put poofed as some were tucked away as rules on a now defunct message board, etc...

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Ken and Byron... As I said via KS correspondence, I sincerely believe in your high level vision, and feel there is a Song of Blade and Heroes shaped hole in the sci-fi and 6mm space, that you may well fill.

I wish you guys a lot of luck, because I would LOVE for this to work out.

A random consideration though... Any thought as to providing an offline version of the stat/design tool? In this hobby you know we love knowing our things will endure and we will have access to something we end up loving far into the future. It might be good to not have the core functionality of your system be a whims of a server.

Rules for promising systems like All Quiet on the Martian Front, have all put poofed as some were tucked away as rules on a now defunct message board, etc...

Absolutely. The online tool is an implementation of the construction rules written out in the rulebook. Everything online will come from the rulebook itself. So, if you are not online, or, as you suggest, still playing long after Byron and I are alive, you can stat out your models with just the book. The difference is that the online tool will generate very pretty combatant tiles, as opposed to hand-completed ones.

As of right now, only the points system calculations are not in the written rulebook, and that is only because I developed them on excel using large spreadsheets, and continue to check them for balance by testing new designs. I intend to translate that spreadsheet into a formula that could be used without an online tool, but obviously most people would prefer to simply click boxes and see the total point cost, rather than do complex math by hand.

 Tertius wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Ken and Byron... As I said via KS correspondence, I sincerely believe in your high level vision, and feel there is a Song of Blade and Heroes shaped hole in the sci-fi and 6mm space, that you may well fill.

I wish you guys a lot of luck, because I would LOVE for this to work out.

A random consideration though... Any thought as to providing an offline version of the stat/design tool? In this hobby you know we love knowing our things will endure and we will have access to something we end up loving far into the future. It might be good to not have the core functionality of your system be a whims of a server.

Rules for promising systems like All Quiet on the Martian Front, have all put poofed as some were tucked away as rules on a now defunct message board, etc...

Absolutely. The online tool is an implementation of the construction rules written out in the rulebook. Everything online will come from the rulebook itself. So, if you are not online, or, as you suggest, still playing long after Byron and I are alive, you can stat out your models with just the book. The difference is that the online tool will generate very pretty combatant tiles, as opposed to hand-completed ones.

As of right now, only the points system calculations are not in the written rulebook, and that is only because I developed them on excel using large spreadsheets, and continue to check them for balance by testing new designs. I intend to translate that spreadsheet into a formula that could be used without an online tool, but obviously most people would prefer to simply click boxes and see the total point cost, rather than do complex math by hand.

Well, I plan to live forever, so I find this comforting. :-p

Its great to see you guys are covering bases, though. I hope more on DakkaDakka give them game a look, and think those rules/gameplay videos will do you a lot of good.

As for people liking to just check boxes versus doing math... I wouldn't know. I find list-building in games to be a Zen Garden... and often do it just for fun. I don't know if that is normal or not.

Incidentally, don't forget when balanced your stat-tool to push the extreme ends of list building too... IE does nothing but taking say... flyers... create an untenable situation for the guy who went infantry heavy, etc...

Thanks for your feedback, and just to second Ken a bit.. the online tool is just an interface essentially. What is in the rules will be coded into that tool to provide the tiles quickly and easily... for the art, you'll get to upload a photo of your miniature. The output is a playable combatant tile in the Polyversal system.

The tool, as mentioned, will be fully explained / documented in the rules. So, think of it as not a proprietary thing- but- more like "open source".

Best,
Byron

I'm very glad to see this finally coming to market. I seem to remember inklinkgs of this popping up over the last few years.

Our club members all have 10mm armies made of rebased mechwarrior clix and we've had fun with a wide variety of rulesets including FWC, Alpha Strike, Mech Attack and Panzer 8. Trying another ruleset is always a good time, especially if it can be "generic" and flexible.

A few questions...

1)What's the difference in content between Engineer Limited and Engineer pledges ?

2) Does the PDF version include pre-made files for units so you don't have to start completely from scratch?

3) Is the "tool" a downloadable or online force builder like the "Song of Blades" builders or is it a pen and paper system?

4) If it's electronic, does the Tool allow you to print out the combatant hex tiles directly and can you upload your own artwork to reflect the units you are using?

5) What is the complexity/detail level of the game on a 1-10 scale where:
10-Dirtside
8-Battletech
5-Alpha Strike
1-Song of Blades and Heroes or Panzer 8.

3/4 were answered earlier. It is a system in the book proper, with the online tool just being a calculator for convenience. However that tool does also let you upload your own art, and print out combat-tiles.

My hunch is that this will be very community driven, so units "tooled" online will be uploaded for others to utilize as well? Maybe a simple thumbs up/down voting system could also help really cool units rise to the top and be visible?

The quickstart rules linked from the kickstarter page seem to give a pretty good idea of the complexity level. You do fire with individual tanks at an individual tank, and once for each weapon you are firing on your tank. So it's not really for huge games I wouldn't think. And it had various kinds of possible damage, like immobilized or fuel leak.

Eilif:
1) The Engineer and Engineer Limited are the same. The limited one is just a slightly cheaper early-bird opportunity.

2) No, I don't think the PDF will include the pre-made combatant tiles, since they are tailored to the figures in the Battlgroup Commander level box set.

3) As I understand it, the "tool" will be an online resource that will generate pdfs that you can print yourself. I'm not aware of any plan to make it a program you can download and run oflline. The rulebook itself will include the complete construction rules, so you can 'stat out' your own miniatures collection on paper, and fill in blank combatant tiles yourself, if you want.

4) Yes. That is exactly what we plan to do.

5) I'm not even sure I agree with your complexity chart. I'd say that Polyversal is more complex than Alpha Strike and SoBH, but less complex than Battletech. The game isn't nearly as granular as Battletech, especially if most of the units are heavy and smaller. Superheavies and Colossals take a few more hits to kill, and can have a variety of damage effects, but do not require nearly the amount of recordkeeping as mechs in Battletech.

To Albino Squirrel's point, yes, the shots are individual per weapon (unless they are linked weapons) but most shots are quickly determined to be either misses or kills. It's only the middle group of hit results on the bellcurve that cause damage, and the middle is wider against larger targets, if that makes sense.

To expand on a couple..

2) Correct. The PDF will not have pre-made tiles. It's really geared for those who want to start blank and have existing collections (of anything). Those players will use the online Combatant Design Tool and the rules to generate the tiles they want.

3) This will be a web-based application that will have some power to it. It may have an offline function as well- we'll see. It's not yet developed- which is part of the goal of our Kickstarter project- to fund the coding that's required. There will be hard copy documentation in the rules to back up what the tool does.

We'll absolutely encourage sharing of designs and a community drive for this. I like that voting idea.

We'll also likely issue expansions with additional tiles to appeal to gamers who like the system, like the minis from multiple sources in one box, and like the 'pro' die-cutting, art by Bruno Werneck, etc... but may not want to spend time designing them.

And to add to Ken's talk on the weapons.... the single die roll for each combat resolution to tell you everything-- really makes it quick to roll through a unit's firing. So, the battles can definitely get big, yet stay reasonable with regard to play time.

Looking forward to this. I've heard good things from a play tester.

New update posted which features a gameplay video covering Polyversal's Orders, Activation, Initiative, Command Range, Battlegroups, and other mechanics.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cewargames/polyversal-6mm-miniatures-game-system/posts/1484175

Nice new video. Sold me on box set. Cheers.

Thanks Shrapnelsmile, much appreciated.

Being demo'd at Williamsburgs Muster in Virginia this weekend.

The demos in Williamsburg went well this past Saturday. I was able to run 4 games for new players.

Here's an update that presents a video of the player's reactions after playing Polyversal for the first time:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cewargames/polyversal-6mm-miniatures-game-system/posts/1486113