Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I just started collecting Hordes miniatures last summer, Circle of Orboros to be specific. I have been doing just that, collecting. Where I used to live there was 0 wargaming communities and I haven't actually played a game in almost 4 years, however I have moved back to my hometown where the scene is huge. I love my Circle minis, they were a blast to paint, not so much to put together but that's another rant for another time (looking at you Skinwalker mold lines.) I didn't really have any interest in Warmachine as the aesthetics of the armies weren't to my tastes, not big into steampunk. However the Retribution of Scyrah have really caught my eye, I love their color scheme and the Warjacks make me think more of fantasy constructs like golems and less like arcane science machines and I'm now considering starting to collect them as well. I would actually like to start playing now that I have a community of willing participants again and had a quick couple of questions about the differences between the systems.

1. I own the Hordes MKII rulebook, do I also need to pick up the Warmachine MKII rulebook or are the rules similar enough not to warrant a second copy?

2. Is there anything I need to know about battling Hordes vs Warmachine miniatures that might not be readily apparant?

TLDR: The two questions above.

Thanks in advance for your time guys, any other advice would be great.

 zeragrin wrote:


1. I own the Hordes MKII rulebook, do I also need to pick up the Warmachine MKII rulebook or are the rules similar enough not to warrant a second copy?

2. Is there anything I need to know about battling Hordes vs Warmachine miniatures that might not be readily apparant?

1. About 95% of the rules are identical between hordes and warmachine. The difference really is how the focus mechanic differs from the fury mechanic and how warcasters 'fuel' their jacks with focus. To be honest, you don't need the rulebook to tell you just this - if you download the free quick start rules from the pp website, they'll tell you how focus works.

2. No, they're fully compatible games. Biggest difference is that hordes armies tend to be large battlegroups with supporting infantry, warmachine armies tend to be infantry heavy with small supporting battlegroups.

Thanks for the heads up. I just picked up the Retribution army book, time to figure out which warcaster I like and build a force around them.

 zeragrin wrote:

Thanks for the heads up. I just picked up the Retribution army book, time to figure out which warcaster I like and build a force around them.

Kaelyssa is a solid choice, but my personal favourite is thyron

The big difference is the Focus mechanic vs. the Fury mechanic. People go around and around about which is better. Both are resource management with Fury being advantaged in the early game and Focus becoming stronger in the late game

Because of the way that Fury plays you tend to see battle group centered armies in Hordes, and Infantry swarms with a few (or even 1 heavy in Khador) lists.

As to the rules.... They are free....
http://privateerpress.com/the-rules-are-free

And War Room offers the factions for about $8.00 Or I think like $60 for all of them. (It also includes all new releases and when an errata is released the cards and rules are updated).

The rule books are available at Privateer Press in a digital format for free. If you are going to be a Hordes player, then the Focus mechanic is easy. If you are a Warmachine player, then Fury is a bit complicated (Am I casting an Animus or spell? How do threshold checks work again? Etc. ). If you find yourself playing a lot of cross games, then you might want to read up on the Focus mechanic. Also, the rules for Warlocks vs. Warcasters are a bit different as well (specifically, transfers vs. ARM boost for Focus, arc nodes). There are some pretty big differences in the timing between Fury and Focus.

Deadnight wrote:

 zeragrin wrote:

Thanks for the heads up. I just picked up the Retribution army book, time to figure out which warcaster I like and build a force around them.

Kaelyssa is a solid choice, but my personal favourite is thyron

I find Issyria to be the best Retribution Warcaster, but she is "Hard Mode", and when played well, is devastating. Kaelyssa is a great, easy to play Warcaster. All the rest fall somewhere between these two.

Hey guys stopping in to say thanks to everyone who weighed in. I'm thinking the plastic Battlegroup + Battle mages will be my first 2 purchases til I get the hang of Focus. After that I'm interested in running a gunline heavy army with rifleman, heavy rifles and a ghost sniper being my next models, maybe a named jack. Any particular advice on Warcasters to field or support units for that sort of army would be awesome! Thanks again.

If you are playing Ret, you'll want the archanest solo. An amazing solo that boosts the effectiveness of your jacks, all for 1 point. Take two, they're amazing. I know Houseguard Riflemen with the UA is a solid ranged unit, and I believe the Dawnguard Invictors are the ranged Dawnguard, those are pretty good as well from what I have seen. Ghost Sniper is an alright solo, he's got a sniper rifle, cool dude and all. The Heavy Rifle Team though, is awful. I don't like being that guy, but it's light artillery, so it can't aim, can't move and fire, and is a bigger target than ghost sniper solos. Sorry if that's a disappointment to you, but I think that it's just a stupidity flawed idea for the sniper artillery.

There are some options available to Retribution players that want to shoot.

The most important imo are Houseguard Halberdiers. They are a cheap, reasonably tough unit that is deceptively fast to boot but most importantly, ranked attack means that your guns can see right through them with no problem.

Riflemen are the most unexceptional unit in your arsenal, but are important nonetheless as the UA grants war tempered and Thanes grant ignore stealth which is one of sorely few ways to do so in faction.

Dawnguard invictors I have yet to use personally, but on paper they look quite good, being Jack Marshalls, Heavy Infantry and a strong shooting base thrown in. The UA is a must have for his mini feat. If taken with Rayvn, they can get a range of 18" for one turn. Like all units that do lots of things you do pay for it though costing as much as Imperatus when taken with UA.

For Jacks the venerable Phoenix will probably see extensive use as it sports a durable frame, with an arc node and some aoe critical fire. It has a nice special attack that will indescriminatley murderise any infantry near it. You really do have to pay for what you get though.

The Banshee is an odd one, probably a touch expensive, but as a counter offensive unit has its uses. Its gun can knock key enemy models out of position or knock down a caster to go in for the kill. It also locks out the ability of nearby enemies to cast spells or issue/receive orders which can be quite annoying for your opponent to deal with.

The Manticore can help control the board with its special attack, and even though it doesn't have reach, it's also no pushover in melee when you need to go on the defensive.

Arcanists are cheap and can give a focus to a Jack to allow it to boost to hit with its gun without using focus from your caster, which is quite useful as well as repair your jacks or increase their melee damage by a modest amount.

Kaelyssa is a pretty decent caster, with an easy to use feat and a weapon combo that can steal focus/fury from enemies as well as coming equipped with spells that let a model of her battlegroup ignore LOS or give immunity to spells.

Rayvn can support ranged models with her feat and snipe, but doesn't do too much beyond that.

Ossyan is a little bit better since his feat amplifying ranged damage is quite nice and his gun can significantly mess with opponent's movement too.

Issyria is probably the closest thing to a ranged support caster we have her feat which is amazing no matter what list she takes, she can lower enemy defense and prevent them from shooting, she can pass out inviolable resolve and neutralise enemy spells cast near her, but possessing no offense of her own, is vulnerable if too much survives her feat turn.

This is all I can think of for now, hope it helps.

 zeragrin wrote:
Hey guys stopping in to say thanks to everyone who weighed in. I'm thinking the plastic Battlegroup + Battle mages will be my first 2 purchases til I get the hang of Focus. After that I'm interested in running a gunline heavy army with rifleman, heavy rifles and a ghost sniper being my next models, maybe a named jack. Any particular advice on Warcasters to field or support units for that sort of army would be awesome! Thanks again.

mage hunters and UA.