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I'm tempted to do an IG conversion project using pretty much GW miniatures, but with 3rd party heads. Would I be able to take this along to a GW tourament (i.e throne of skulls) or a store without flack? Or are they strict on that sort of thing?

Don't expect warm welcomes, that's all I will say.

The official line is that they're not allowed, but as with many things, it depends on your local shop. Some staff won't mind as long as you don't go boasting about it, some simply won't notice, and some won't allow it.

As an example, I remember seeing a model in a GW cabinet (it might even have been a staff member's model) which was clearly a model from I-Kore's Void range converted with Tyranid parts.

Ask before you go to the store. Some have been known to kick people out for any 3rd party bits, others require a certain amount be GW, and some don't care. Regardless, don't go waving them around and brag, that'll make you unpopular with the manager real quick.

Personally, if playing at a GW or in GW tournaments was important to me, I wouldn't waste the time starting an army that I may not be able to play with.

You can ask the manager if he's fine with it, but then in a year when he/she gets fired and you have a new manager, the situation may change.

I'm not saying don't do the army, I'm just saying if you do the army, plan to not be playing at a GW and treat it as a happy surprise if you can.

The number of "GW tournaments" are very miniscule isn't it?

They do a few a year in Warhammer World and that's it basically?

Is this really worth considering when it'll be such a small portion of your gaming.

There used to be a percentage. Wasn't it something like 'has to be at least 70% GW model' for conversions?

 Zywus wrote:
The number of "GW tournaments" are very miniscule isn't it?

They do a few a year in Warhammer World and that's it basically?

Is this really worth considering when it'll be such a small portion of your gaming.

I don't know how many official GW tournaments there are, but my local GW does hold small tournaments quite regularly.

For a few years my gaming fix was almost entirely playing at GW stores, so building a 40k army out of anything other than GW parts wasn't really an option (well, I could have stopped gaming at the store, but I did it because I enjoyed gaming at the store).

Perhaps is the American in me but I just couldn't stand playing in a place that restricts what bits and models I can use in order to play there. I wonder if they restrict the use of blue/yellow epoxy (green stuff) or non GW basing material.

The American in you wants to be able to play games in a company's store using models that weren't made by that company?

If it was an FLGS that sold a wide range of games or maybe charged for use of the tables, I could understand. But GW's policy doesn't really bother me because it's sort of akin to walking in to a McDonald's and sitting down with a bag of Burger King food.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The American in you wants to be able to play games in a company's store using models that weren't made by that company?

If it was an FLGS that sold a wide range of games or maybe charged for use of the tables, I could understand. But GW's policy doesn't really bother me because it's sort of akin to walking in to a McDonald's and sitting down with a bag of Burger King food.

Requiring people to generally use the companies models when gaming in their stores is reasonable.

Disallowing someone to play when using almost exclusively the company's models but intermingled with a few models from other manufacturers, or 3rd party conversion heads on models from the company would be less so.

If a store enforced the latter, It would indeed put me off from visiting it altogether.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The American in you wants to be able to play games in a company's store using models that weren't made by that company?

If it was an FLGS that sold a wide range of games or maybe charged for use of the tables, I could understand. But GW's policy doesn't really bother me because it's sort of akin to walking in to a McDonald's and sitting down with a bag of Burger King food.

The issue is when having some 3rd party shoulder pads or guns prevents you from playing even when everything is based off their products. Its more like getting kicked from McDonalds from putting your own pickle on a burger instead of the ones they provide.

My local GW is doing a conversion competition next week and their only condition was it can't have third party bits involved.

The attitude in the store is different depending on who you to speak to at the time. My homebrew Marine chapter is 99% GW but I use some of the pads Kromlech make - at least one on every mini as it's the chapter symbol.

One of the guys in there didn't have an issue with it as he thought it made sense to get the pads, the other guy was aghast at the prospect.

I remember years ago in White Dwarf they would actively direct you to buy airfix models for conversion fodder, shame they've moved away from that aspect to an extent.

That was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, unfortunately.

Have a chat with the GW staff, and move from there. Just don't go in expecting agreement - always assume the worst in this specific situation.

I played a friendly tournament at WHW 4-5 years ago with Pig Iron heads on my IG and no one batted an eyelid.

You could just call the store and ask them rather than ask a forum full of people that will guess. I would suggest this would be the best course of action.

Yeah the sensible thing to do is just to ask. That's what I did with my local GW guy and he basically said it's pretty much between you and your opponent. As long as it's not something stupid. He seemed to think my conversions were cool, and just seemed happy that I was continuing to be a regular customer getting the majority of my hobby supplies from him.

Of course ymmv. There's two sides to this argument, and I can see why GW want people to stick to their product in store. But I think when most of an army is GW stuff there should certainly be some leeway, like 60-70% something like that.

 Zywus wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The American in you wants to be able to play games in a company's store using models that weren't made by that company?

If it was an FLGS that sold a wide range of games or maybe charged for use of the tables, I could understand. But GW's policy doesn't really bother me because it's sort of akin to walking in to a McDonald's and sitting down with a bag of Burger King food.

Requiring people to generally use the companies models when gaming in their stores is reasonable.

Disallowing someone to play when using almost exclusively the company's models but intermingled with a few models from other manufacturers, or 3rd party conversion heads on models from the company would be less so.

If a store enforced the latter, It would indeed put me off from visiting it altogether.

A store wouldn't enforce the latter, unless you tried to make an issue of it. They'd just ask you not to use the models from other manufacturers.

Generally the managers won't give a crap about alternate heads or small bits like that. It's generally when you start butting in when they're talking to customers about conversion/customization ideas and start shilling for a 3rd party that you'll have issues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 notprop wrote:

You could just call the store and ask them rather than ask a forum full of people that will guess. I would suggest this would be the best course of action.

Of course it's the best course of action, but it's also so much easier to just post on a forum than to deal with the tyrannical GW managers.

 Vankraken wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The American in you wants to be able to play games in a company's store using models that weren't made by that company?

If it was an FLGS that sold a wide range of games or maybe charged for use of the tables, I could understand. But GW's policy doesn't really bother me because it's sort of akin to walking in to a McDonald's and sitting down with a bag of Burger King food.

The issue is when having some 3rd party shoulder pads or guns prevents you from playing even when everything is based off their products. Its more like getting kicked from McDonalds from putting your own pickle on a burger instead of the ones they provide.

Sure, if the pickle you were using was a Burger King pickle and you had the Burger King wrapper sitting on your table. The problem is that it's not a pickle hidden in a sandwich that no one knows about but you, it's on display, and store owners don't want other customers asking "Oh, where'd you get those awesome pickles from?". Most people just wouldn't do it out of being polite and not wanting to create a stir if the staff do get unhappy about it.

Also who the hell goes in to a McDonald's with their own pickles

I'm sure some store managers might not care, the problem is there isn't a global policy on it and store managers are temporary beings. You might not even get through painting an army before one drops off and another pops up with new policies. So I think the smart move is just to stick to GW as much as is possible if you plan on gaming at a GW store. If you have somewhere else to game and the GW store is just a bonus, you might take a gamble on it knowing that maybe you won't be able to play at the GW, but at least you have somewhere else to go.

While I don't think a head swap would necessarily be a problem, I doubt my local GW manager would care (though I haven't asked specifically), there's really no way to know when you might get an unreasonable manager in a store who doesn't like it.

If you can talk your way to them becoming scratch-built, not 3rd party, you'll have little problem.
If they can go to a 3rd-party's store page and point at your model, expect to be shown the door.

We've used third party bits at Warhammer World with no problems. In fact we had our Nid army, using Chapterhouse cthulu heads, win the painting prize and sit in the display cabinet there while the lawsuit was still a recent memory. And we've had warm welcomes at local GW stores to Orks with various bits, including Ramshackle and some spellcrow heads.

Our experience, if you're pleasant to them and don't shove it in their faces, rule of cool applies.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Our experience, if you're pleasant to them and don't shove it in their faces, rule of cool applies.

Essentially, if no-one further up the tree notices, you're fine. The manager has enough to deal with without policing figures.

Several GW managers here have used third party bits in their store armies and no-one cared. As long as he hit his sales targets, they didn't care at HQ.

- mind you, this was before the "one man store" that was only open 2 days a month when the moon was new (or whatever the hours are supposed to be. The local one is closed whenever I go past it - no matter the day or time of day.

If it's just bits and you don't say anything most people won't even notice unless you are using completely different models.

Plus the staff probably haven't been there that long, so you can just claim they are some old kit.

I've heard of people having problems using old GW models and the staff thinking they are proxies, so you may as well take advantage of that lack of knowledge

Ask for forgiveness. Not permission. Do your converts. Just dont say anything. They will unlikely notice. If they do just tell them you did them yourself custom... which you did. Dont mention any third party supplier. If they kick you out, calmly pack up your minis and flip over a table on your way out shouting "Viva la resistance! Viva la Chapterhouse!"

 doktor_g wrote:
Ask for forgiveness. Not permission. Do your converts. Just dont say anything. They will unlikely notice. If they do just tell them you did them yourself custom... which you did. Dont mention any third party supplier. If they kick you out, calmly pack up your minis and flip over a table on your way out shouting "Viva la resistance! Viva la Chapterhouse!"

This is clearly the only way to handle this

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Ask before you go to the store. Some have been known to kick people out for any 3rd party bits, others require a certain amount be GW, and some don't care. Regardless, don't go waving them around and brag, that'll make you unpopular with the manager real quick.

I've been kicked out of a GW for showing images on my phone of 3rd party minis. Didn't even have them with me.

Know your GW managers before doing anything...

Even in my purely GW armies almost all my tanks have Tamiya or Italiari stowage on them and I never had trouble in a GW store.

For whatever that's worth.

Course it's been... I dunno... five years since I last actually played in a GW store.

Unless the bits you are using are super overt, I would just try to keep quiet about it, and if a member of staff comes over to check out your minis have something 100% GW that you've painted really nicely to put in their hands and distract them with.

I feel like it very much depends on the manager too, like the store in Hull used to have a really chill, friendly manager, who was just really enthusiastic about modeling, and didn't really care too much so long as you were having a good time (though that's not to say he wouldn't try and encourage you to buy GW or FW products in the future), but they replaced him a few months back, and new guys have cracked on 3rd party stuff quite hard.

Have you tried just straight-up emailing customer service, or using the facebook FAQ? that might be able to furnish you with a GW approved answer to use wherever you go with regards to what you have.

Unless the bits you are using are super overt, I would just try to keep quiet about it, and if a member of staff comes over to check out your minis have something 100% GW that you've painted really nicely to put in their hands and distract them with.

I feel like it very much depends on the manager too, like the store in Hull used to have a really chill, friendly manager, who was just really enthusiastic about modeling, and didn't really care too much so long as you were having a good time

Pretty much this. A GW store manager has neither the time nor inclination to 'vet' the origin of every piece of every model someone wants to use in his store. If you unpack an army and play a game, odds are he won't even notice a few subtle bits.

If you have a large, centrepiece model which isn't GW (ultraforge daemon prince, for example), or are specifically drawing peoples attention to the conversion and saying "yeah, these are pig iron, aren't they soooo much better than the stock GW ones", then it's not unreasonable for him to ask you to stop.