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I thought I would ask Dakka this as the last related topic i could find was around 2013, which was before i got back into the hobby. I did search so hopefully i didn't miss something!

Ok not looking to stoke up Painted vs Unpainted debate - everyone is free to do there own thing! However........

About a year ago i started a fully painted, no proxies, no WAAC players, 21+ only 40k group run from my home, I had low expectation given the strict requirements I had put in place. I got a surprising response... We now have 8 regulars 2-3 infrequent players and 2 more getting stuff together as we speak! all within one year in a relatively remote location.

During this time there have been a few instances of me having to remind potential players of our groups requirements, this has resulted in most amicably deciding this is not for them but one or two have suggested i am being unfair. This prompted me to look on the internet for others thoughts (bad idea right!). The attitudes i found were quite surprising to me!

My take on on how i want to enjoy the hobby is cool looking armies on cool boards played at a chilled pace while having a laugh (and a beer sometimes!), not to say we don't play to win just not at all costs! This means that I will decline to play those without painted armies, i would even decline those who do the 'technically' 3 colour minimum paint job as well as those with proxies. I am not judging anyone who doesn't want to hobby to my standard i just don't want to partake in 1-3 hour game of something i won't enjoy, yet from previous discussions this would indicate i am in line for ridicule such as being a snob!!

Thoughts? Anyone been subject to such 'snob' branding

Depends, if it is a one off game, i do not mind, but expect sneering re-marks during game play. If it is a beginning player that just has begun, days or weeks before, i will help him/her/it with advice concerning painting.

If it is a tournament, unpainted miniatures is a no no.

Your house, your rules. I wouldn't feel bad about it.

From what you've said but you might be skirting the line re snobbery.

Three colours is the usual minimum so being above this is a bit harsh. I say this as you could be doing yourself a disservice on the basis that you might be missing out on more gamers (you can't have enough I reckon) and more personalities for the mix. Plus It's the easiest thing in the world to help another gamer up his/her skills over time and they might be a really sound person to boot.

Also you can over organise what is supposed to be a fun activity. Do you check their armies before gaming? If so you might be taking it a bit too seriously. That might be fine but it's a good question to ask yourself and one that you seem to be doing.

Finally don't get too hung up on painting ability as the rule of 4' always applies. You really won't tell the difference between a top end paint job and three colour minimum standing over a table full of models and scenery.

Your hobby, your choice. Play the game however you like.

I'm a 'snob' and would prefer to go without a game vs play against unpainted.
I'd rather a painting session, terrain building session or chat in the pub with that opponent until we're up to speed.

Sounds fair enough. It's your hobby after all, not something you get paid to endure.

But should you turn down a game with someone, at least offer to help them reach your standards, be that taking the 3-colour army to a higher level or even just getting started painting all together.

Your house, your rules. I wouldn't feel bad about it.

From what you've said but you might be skirting the line re snobbery.

Three colours is the usual minimum so being above this is a bit harsh. I say this as you could be doing yourself a disservice on the basis that you might be missing out on more gamers (you can't have enough I reckon) and more personalities for the mix. Plus It's the easiest thing in the world to help another gamer up his/her skills over time and they might be a really sound person to boot.

Also you can over organise what is supposed to be a fun activity. Do you check their armies before gaming? If so you might be taking it a bit too seriously. That might be fine but it's a good question to ask yourself and one that you seem to be doing.

Finally don't get too hung up on painting ability as the rule of 4' always applies. You really won't tell the difference between a top end paint job and three colour minimum standing over a table full of models and scenery

When i say 'technically' 3 colours minimum i mean those who achieve this requirement on a technicality despite the end result, if your stuff looks cool with 3 colours then cool!

Ha there is no inspecting beforehand!! Normally its someone who has said there stuff is painted and has pitched up with squad where 7 are done 2 grey plastic one is undercoated with no arms etc. At which point we play the game but afterwards i have a polite word.


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Your hobby, your choice. Play the game however you like.

I'm a 'snob' and would prefer to go without a game vs play against unpainted.
I'd rather a painting session, terrain building session or chat in the pub with that opponent until we're up to speed.

Yup! Amen brother

I get exactly what you are saying and I also detest playing against unpainted armies.

Not just because I love playing with nicely painted minis but also because I am a very visual person and thhe last 40K game I played was against a half painted but mostly black undercoated army.

I really struggled to tell units apart and it made for an unenjoyable game.

I have spent a long time painting up an army that's fully WYSIWYG and I would hope that my opponents would put put in similar effort.

HOWEVER - It's taken me 6 years to get to that point for one of my armies. I am slow painter and working full time doesn't leave me much free time to build and paint minis.

If I were part of your group I wouldn't have been able to play a game for at least 6 months and that would have been at best about 500pts.

I totally agree that it's right to set standards and expectations but sometimes you have to allow for WIP models.

I also like to try out new units before spending ages painting them.

However if you have specified that your group is for experienced or already invested palyers I think you have every right to do that and I reckon it would be a very cool group to be apart of.

Not everybody is a master painter though, no matter how hard they try which is why most tournies go for the 3 colour rule.

Something that might make me a snob is actually the games table.

I hate palying on a table with rubbish or unpainted terrain, especially as so much is available pre-painted and with the advent of fat mats etc.

It's fairly common for people who don't want to do the work to paint their armies to argue that people who like playing with painted armies adn don't want to play with unpainted armies are snobs.

There isn't any special virtue in playing with unpainted armies that you lack by not wanting to do it.

It's fairly common for people who don't want to do the work to paint their armies to argue that people who like playing with painted armies adn don't want to play with unpainted armies are snobs.

There isn't any special virtue in playing with unpainted armies that you lack by not wanting to do it.

^^THIS!!!

WTF is up with that? I don't wonder up to people with unpainted armies and call them lazy, i accept it may not be a priority for them or they just don't like it. If I did call them lazy i would be chastised by all accounts, yet its no issue for some to call me a snob..




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I get exactly what you are saying and I also detest playing against unpainted armies.

Not just because I love playing with nicely painted minis but also because I am a very visual person and thhe last 40K game I played was against a half painted but mostly black undercoated army.

I really struggled to tell units apart and it made for an unenjoyable game.

I have spent a long time painting up an army that's fully WYSIWYG and I would hope that my opponents would put put in similar effort.

HOWEVER - It's taken me 6 years to get to that point for one of my armies. I am slow painter and working full time doesn't leave me much free time to build and paint minis.

If I were part of your group I wouldn't have been able to play a game for at least 6 months and that would have been at best about 500pts.

I totally agree that it's right to set standards and expectations but sometimes you have to allow for WIP models.

I also like to try out new units before spending ages painting them.

However if you have specified that your group is for experienced or already invested palyers I think you have every right to do that and I reckon it would be a very cool group to be apart of.

Not everybody is a master painter though, no matter how hard they try which is why most tournies go for the 3 colour rule.

Something that might make me a snob is actually the games table.

I hate palying on a table with rubbish or unpainted terrain, especially as so much is available pre-painted and with the advent of fat mats etc.

Shame you're not closer

It did cross my mind that there will be good guys like you who i'm loosing out on but i made the decision that there are plenty of clubs that have no / very little requirements so I wanted to offer an alternative. It seemed to me the guy who didn't want to paint had all the options and the guy who invested the time and effort couldn't go somewhere and 'guarantee' a fully painted experience, thus why i made the choice i did.

P.S. our boards are cool! Fully painted FW city of death, gamemate.eu mats with full scatter and painted terrain - Only way to play!! (for me )

Like others have said Your House, Yours Rules

I'm also a bit of paint snob, like you say I'd rather play against a painted army than a non-painted one, even three colour is better than nothing (and for some horde armys 3 colour for the grunts is fine so long as the elites etc are better)

I'd tend to let people off large models, ie Knights or Demons, that are clearly a WiP but so long as its 3 colour, people do love to play with their shinys ASAP

I think proxys are a bit of a greyer area, given the prices of things, I'd be fine with someone 'testing' a unit they are thinking about buying with similar models for a game or three but generally not ongoing

My first club was pretty strict on painting standards. The core club organizers would often tell you they wouldn't play with your models if they weren't painted. Now, without context, this sounds kind of snobbish and verging on donkey-cave behaviour, but not only did the organizers set up regular painting nights and learning sessions (they were amazing hobbyists), all of their armies were fantastically painted and we always played on fully painted tables, some of which were entirely custom made.

To them, the idea of fielding their painted armies on a table they made from scratch that was also beautifully painted against a grey legion was just not what they signed up to do. However, they'd gladly let you use one of their armies for whatever game we were playing until you had your own force painted up.

That was probably the best club I've ever had and likely will ever have.

Our proxie rules are no model proxies but weapon proxies are ok as long as its not every weapon, I generally run 95% - 100% WYSIWYG

I get the proxy thing, maybe we are a bit harsh with that but I didn't want to slap arbitrary limits on how many times something could be used and monitor it. It's kind just become the norm now that there are no proxies...




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My first club was pretty strict on painting standards. The core club organizers would often tell you they wouldn't play with your models if they weren't painted. Now, without context, this sounds kind of snobbish and verging on donkey-cave behaviour, but not only did the organizers set up regular painting nights and learning sessions (they were amazing hobbyists), all of their armies were fantastically painted and we always played on fully painted tables, some of which were entirely custom made.

To them, the idea of fielding their painted armies on a table they made from scratch that was also beautifully painted against a grey legion was just not what they signed up to do. However, they'd gladly let you use one of their armies for whatever game we were playing until you had your own force painted up.

That was probably the best club I've ever had and likely will ever have.

I find stuff like this inspirational - This shows new players what can be done. My opinion is that far too many clubs these days inadvertently show new players grey unpainted armies are the norm. Perhaps it is the norm now........

If one of the groundrules of the 'club' is fully painted, then that's the rules. People know that when the look at joining. Why not arrange a painting rather than gaming night (social painting is actually very good for learning) if people are struggling getting their stuff together?

Indeed.

Snobbery is only an issue if someone is thumbing their nose at other peoples efforts. Me I appreciate the effort no mater the results and as I say it makes no difference from 4 foot away anyway.

Geordie wrote:


I find stuff like this inspirational - This shows new players what can be done. My opinion is that far too many clubs these days inadvertently show new players grey unpainted armies are the norm. Perhaps it is the norm now........

As it turns out, all the players that came out of that club when that particular leadership ran it when on to paint most of their models and encourage new gamers to as well. There was no animosity in part due to the regular painting nights together instead of gaming, and that they would gladly let you push their models around for a game or play with whatever painted models you did have.

It always felt very reasonable to me and the matches turned out for the better as they were always painted vs painted on a painted, nicely set up board. Plus, it meant we could take massive pictures of all our forces to show off, like my giant spaceship picture of all of our club's fleets.

I wouldn't characterize any private club for a hobby as being "unfair" for having particular requirements to participate unless you were trying to have your town council ban any other club or other such silliness. It's a club, and by nature optional. If someone doesn't want to abide by the rules they can start their own club. Even if you owned a store you'd have a right to enforce such rules; you'd be a fool as you'd be driving away customers, but still within your rights.

The only time you'd need to be concerned about the effects of your rules is if you became the only club in an X mile radius. Then you're not engaging with the hobby just for you, but rather dictating terms to anyone who wanted to get started and stifling the hobby in your area. Then you'd want to give serious thought to holding regular painting nights and such. You're still not wrong per se, but you're doing a bad thing so you may want to examine that. However, that's relatively unlikely scenario to happen in the UK or Europe due to population density, though eminently possible in the rural US.

One question though on proxies since I've seen that word used in a few different contexts; is that meaning a model that is clearly a Space Marine being used as a Necron or Terminator as a Centurion is prohibited, which is how I use the word? Or does that mean only the manufacturer's models for the game and bringing in other ranges, which I would personally call alternative models, is not allowed? That's a very broad can of worms, as with most folks it varies with how good the alternate is (e.g. - random toys off the shelf = no, but alternate bitz makers = fine), but since you're looking to enforce a certain standard on the table I'm just curious about the extent of that rule. Just to put a more concrete example forward, if someone had a full DreamForge Games (random painted examples; worth noting the 2nd link's model is taller than a Knight by a sizable amount) army painted up nicely as AdMech or Imperial Guard, would that force be welcome on the table or is the immersion of the setting more important?

Good on you for actually encouraging people to play with painted armys, I feel pretty muuch the same way you do in relation to the painting, apart from the three colours thing !

I can totally sympathise with people that do not have enough time to paint an army, i am in the same boat, but no excuse is really needed.
If you really want to have an army of a decent standard badly enough, then you will make it happen one way or another.

Its each to his own at the end of the day, if they dont like it they can leave, just be nice about it, accept that other people will feel differently, and dont be drawn into any arguments.

There are plenty of other hobby related activities that can be done with your friends other than playing a full size game.

I wouldn't characterize any private club for a hobby as being "unfair" for having particular requirements to participate unless you were trying to have your town council ban any other club or other such silliness. It's a club, and by nature optional. If someone doesn't want to abide by the rules they can start their own club. Even if you owned a store you'd have a right to enforce such rules; you'd be a fool as you'd be driving away customers, but still within your rights.

The only time you'd need to be concerned about the effects of your rules is if you became the only club in an X mile radius. Then you're not engaging with the hobby just for you, but rather dictating terms to anyone who wanted to get started and stifling the hobby in your area. Then you'd want to give serious thought to holding regular painting nights and such. You're still not wrong per se, but you're doing a bad thing so you may want to examine that. However, that's relatively unlikely scenario to happen in the UK or Europe due to population density, though eminently possible in the rural US.

One question though on proxies since I've seen that word used in a few different contexts; is that meaning a model that is clearly a Space Marine being used as a Necron or Terminator as a Centurion is prohibited, which is how I use the word? Or does that mean only the manufacturer's models for the game and bringing in other ranges, which I would personally call alternative models, is not allowed? That's a very broad can of worms, as with most folks it varies with how good the alternate is (e.g. - random toys off the shelf = no, but alternate bitz makers = fine), but since you're looking to enforce a certain standard on the table I'm just curious about the extent of that rule. Just to put a more concrete example forward, if someone had a full DreamForge Games (random painted examples; worth noting the 2nd link's model is taller than a Knight by a sizable amount) army painted up nicely as AdMech or Imperial Guard, would that force be welcome on the table or is the immersion of the setting more important?

On the only club in X mile scenario. I see what your saying, rightly or wrongly i'm not sure i would budge on my position. Still think I would I stick up for the guy looking for a painted game - Maybe the luxury of the amount of gamers near me allows me to take that position and i would change my tune if i lived in the rural US!

Proxie wise we use the word how you use it, a predator proxied as a vindicator is not ok etc. Once you open the door where does it stop?

As for alternatives to be honest its not really come up yet but its a good issue to consider, maybe worth a group chat in advance of any issue at the next game night. My initial thoughts are no. Now that's not because i don't think some models would be totally fine and work well in the group but again it opens the door.... Not set on that one tbh but i'm generally against having to monitor any grey areas in the group.

A good question though.

Alternative models are really a two-edged sword because it's just a huge spectrum. If you say you don't want them in at all, you cut out some absolutely fantastic kits that could integrate well with 40k. If you say everything is allowed, you may end up facing off against a Breponnian army; to be fair I wouldn't mind such a thing once as a lark as there's a clear commitment to the theme there, but as a regular opponent? No thank you, it's a one-trick pony and once that novelty wears off it's a bit too jarring alongside more traditional miniatures for my tastes.

Might just be a thing where if it looks to reasonably integrate with the setting and WYSIWYG is still applicable then it's fine. I personally am building an Imperial Guard force with Victoria Miniatures Tannenberg Fusiliers which are obviously mimicking the Mordian Iron Guard, and the weapons similarly emulate 40k aesthetics so you can tell a plasma rifle from a lasgun from a flamer. Instead of Leman Russes, I plan on using a variety of Dust SSU vehicles since they too share a common hull with differences in turrets (e.g. - a "Leman Russ Exterminator"). Not the most effective army from a list-building standpoint, but a unified theme and clear "this is that" equivalence. I won't claim that they will be well-painted, but my prototype squad is already up to 12 colors in varying amounts.

As you point out though, saying "X is ok, but Y is not" starts to delve into some grey areas and that can lead to some discord where models more "on the bubble" of integrating come in. At the same time, turning people away because they like different models than what GW makes seems like it could be equally problematic. Definitely a thing to discuss ahead of time and be clear about up-front.

As I get older, I like the social/immersive/narrative/what have you aspects of minis gaming. I enjoy winning, and I play to win, but I'd rather have a fun game, a good brew, some laughs, and some great visuals that anything else. If I were near you, I'd totally show up with some fully painted armies.

I think that holding to higher standards means you tend to keep a core together more. It can be harder to recruit, but when you do, you recruit people that are more committed. And any club worth it's salt probably has an extra army to lend to newer players to use while they paint up their armies.

All told, I've reached a point where I really like painting, and I'd rather paint than play unpainted.

Eh, your club, your house, your rules. But I wouldn't join, despite having fully painted armies myself. I think you're skirting the line of snobbery.

I'm gonna go against the grain here and say I don't really care about unpainted armies. I'd rather have a fun time than play against the most jaw-dropping of armies. Paint splatter isn't what makes it fun, it's the people I play with.

I only field painted armies myself, but I would never begrudge someone for not having a painted army, as I know family/work/school/etc. takes a toll. I also know some people just don't like painting.

Geordie wrote:
I thought I would ask Dakka this as the last related topic i could find was around 2013, which was before i got back into the hobby. I did search so hopefully i didn't miss something!

Ok not looking to stoke up Painted vs Unpainted debate - everyone is free to do there own thing! However........

About a year ago i started a fully painted, no proxies, no WAAC players, 21+ only 40k group run from my home, I had low expectation given the strict requirements I had put in place. I got a surprising response... We now have 8 regulars 2-3 infrequent players and 2 more getting stuff together as we speak! all within one year in a relatively remote location.

During this time there have been a few instances of me having to remind potential players of our groups requirements, this has resulted in most amicably deciding this is not for them but one or two have suggested i am being unfair. This prompted me to look on the internet for others thoughts (bad idea right!). The attitudes i found were quite surprising to me!

My take on on how i want to enjoy the hobby is cool looking armies on cool boards played at a chilled pace while having a laugh (and a beer sometimes!), not to say we don't play to win just not at all costs! This means that I will decline to play those without painted armies, i would even decline those who do the 'technically' 3 colour minimum paint job as well as those with proxies. I am not judging anyone who doesn't want to hobby to my standard i just don't want to partake in 1-3 hour game of something i won't enjoy, yet from previous discussions this would indicate i am in line for ridicule such as being a snob!!

Thoughts? Anyone been subject to such 'snob' branding

The tl;dr answer is ‘your house, your rules’.

The long answer is this. I like painting. I like modelling, and converting. I have no problems spending 3 or 4 hours painting a model that might not even have a game system or rules profile to play it with – in other words, I enjoy painting models for their own sakes. Strangely, what made me realise this was deciding to re-paint my Circle of Orboros army, and then going to a WMH tourney a few years ago, with my army in the middle of ‘reconstruction’ –the army I was fielding was a mix of ‘first draft’ painted models (ie yet to be stripped/repainted), stripped and repainted models (new scheme, more experience/skill so generally a lot ‘better’), and some stripped and greenstuffed conversion-in-progress models that had yet to be painted. As you can imagine, the mix of painted (with 2 paint schemes!) and unpainted was quite jarring and unsatisfying, and afterwards, I swore to myself to never play with unpainted models again. I have kept to that vow. I don’t mind playing against unpainted stuff, but have an overwhelming preference to play against painted models.

Now, when I read your OP, and all I can do is smile Gordie. I want to buy you a beer. And yes, I really mean that. I often feel that gamers are their own worst enemies – we can be a very toxic and bitter community and should come with a ‘hazardous’ label. I think intertia and a lack of proactivity is one of the greatest faults of our community – too many people would rather just sit back and complain, rather than doing anything about it. And here you are, having a ‘vision’ for the game you want to play, for the people you want to play against, and for the type of community you want to be a part of, and what’s more, you went out and made it happen. You built it. That’s it, right there. That’s what I’m always harping on about. Kudos. And not only that – you’ve taken ownership/control of your games and built a community from your home. I’ve gotten into arguments with people online who stated how you simply cant build a community from home. I bet you’ll also start spouting such apparent ‘nonsense’ as communicating with your opponents, co-operating to make fair match ups and other ‘guff’. Frankly, as far as I am concerned, when it comes to the hobby, you are doing it right.

And you have a bunch of ‘restrictions’. Painted armies? Agreed. See above. I have no issues playing against unpainted models, but much rather painted stuff. It adds so much more to the game, and frankly, I feel people are missing out by skipping the painting and modelling (and I say that as a ‘grown up’ with limited time to paint/hobby. I appreciate though not everyone has the time to paint everything to an ‘excellent’ standard ( I certainly don’t!), but so long as ‘some’ effort has gone in, and it looks a somewhat decent ‘table top standard’, you’ll never hear a complaint from me.

No proxies? Generally yes but with caveats. ‘this coke can is a dreadnought’? fair enough. Im against that kind of malarkey. That said, its not cut and dried. I hope you are open to conversions (the line between proxy/conversion can be quite fine at times..). Similarly, alternative third party models that look identical/better’ is a big one for me. Anvil Industry’s Black Ops (http://anvilindustry.co.uk/Black-Ops/Black-Ops-Fireteam) are amazing stand-ins for Space Marines their Republic and Unity Council infantry (http://anvilindustry.co.uk/AFTERLIFE/Republic/Republic-Grenadiers) or Dreamforge’s Eisenkern infantry (http://dreamforge-games.com/collections/infantry/products/eisenkern-stormtroopers-20-man-set) would do great for carapace armoured guard, Space Marine Scouts or Stormtroopers. Frankly, there are some amazing model lines out there and I think its an absolute shame to arbitrarily ban some of these for the simple reason that they don’t have a ‘GW’ stamp on their bums, when they’re perfectly adequate for purpose, and frankly, look absolutely stellar. Then there are the usual exceptions to ‘no proxies’, ranging from ‘Oh damn, I forgot my Chaplain’ to ‘mind if I try something silly’ and use X instead of Y?

No WAAC players? Yup. Surprisingly, I have to agree with you here. I love tournaments, but make a distinction between being ‘competitive’ and being ‘waac’. Competitive is fine. Competitive is great. However, ‘all the competitive, all of the time’ can get tiresome and leads to rapid burnout, if you ask me. However, WAAC players are distinct from ‘competitive’ – they’re a distinct subset of gamers that exist across every spectrum, whether it is casual at all costs scrubs or noobstalking win at all costs PITAs. Its got nothing to do with casual, or competitive, and everything to do with lousy social dynamics, bullying, selfish, smug and condescending attitudes and frankly, its not something I get involved with out of choice. As you say, its about enjoying the hobby with cool looking armies on cool boards played at a chilled pace while having a laugh (and a beer sometimes!).

Age limit? Yup. I’m in my thirties (just). I don’t want to play around kids or teenagers, generally. With respect, I find I am at a point in my life where I have a lot less in common with college ‘kids’ and much prefer hanging out with my peers who are at the same place as I am in life and who I have more in common with. You get older, your perspective changes – that sort of thing.

As you say, it’s about enjoying the hobby with cool looking armies on cool boards played at a chilled pace while having a laugh with mates, and maybe a few beers (or tea). You’d be surprised how much easing off on the ‘arms race’ gets ‘dormant’ players out of the woodwork, and gets ‘extinct’ players active and involved with the game. We mainly play with a group of 4 at a friend’s house on Friday evenings – mainly historicals but some sci-fi and so on. We very much embrace the ‘home brew’ and ‘laid back’ approach and if anything, a more sedate pace is quite a refreshing change for me. Last few weeks have been painting evenings, and I’ve gotten loads of my LOTR ‘historicals’ done. Another group of people I play with are fellow WMH players. I got talking to them after a masters a few years ago, and we all found ourselves, by coincidence to be in the same place in life. Wives, girlfriends, dogs, kids, mortgages, jobs, other hobbies/interests/commitments, and none of us had the time to properly ‘chase the WMH meta’ and being honest, none of us were entirely enjoying the experience of playing against some of the ‘big sharks’ that swim in the tank– they’re nice guys, but play at a level/pace/intensity and understanding that is beyond us frankly and which none of us really enjoy or have the time/interest to keep pace with. And over the course of a few conversations and traded numbers we ended up with us folks meeting up regularly for ‘game days’ amongst ourselves, and playing at a more laid back pace in a friendly environment, sometimes at stores, sometimes at homes. We’ve got a few new guys coming into it through this way too, and its really enjoyable. As you say, the numbers you get by approaching it this way are quite surprising – you have a dozen players actively involved, or semi-involed, or working on projects. We probably have the same, if not more. The fact you do it in a more remote location is all the more impressive in terms of what you have built.

So long as what you are doing doesn’t become some kind of ‘elitist club’ there shouldn’t be any issues. I don’t think you are being unfair, but I can see why people might not want to join – again, ‘play with likeminded folks’ works generally, but for some, your way of playing mightn’t be their idea of ‘fun’. And they’re not necessarily wrong.

All I can say is keep it up Gordie. If you find yourself near Edinburgh, send me a message. There’s a beer in it.

Im firmly in the snob camp then.

Never played with unpainted figures and never will... wouldn't let them on my table either. Luckily my gaming comrades all have the same attitude and we have enough stuff to play while painting up new projects. Plus plenty of stuff for anyone new to use until they have stuff done.

Its gotta look pretty. Otherwise, may as well be a board game.

We are mainly historical gamers though, so that may be a defining difference. Historical gamers don't tend to use unpainted stuff really from what Ive seen over the last few decades.

My house is the same. If it isn't painted then its not going on the table. I put way too much time and money into building nice terrain for someone to plop their gray plastic down on a finished product. If a member needs help painting then we will pitch in no questions asked.

No doubt having this standard has gotten things painted where they never would have been before. As a result, the collective efforts of several guys has given us a pretty good looking set up.

I would never go elsewhere and tell people how to enjoy their hobby, as I understand that people enjoy it for different reasons. But I won't enjoy a game with unpainted minis, so at my house paint it or don't bring it.

I respect how others play in their own places and expect the same in return. No need for name calling.

Congratulations on starting a game club with standards.
As others have said it's your place and it's your rules.
I have a club that also adheres to the fully painted rule. We also only game on well-done terrain. We've been doing so for 6 years and it's great to know that everytime I game it's going to be a visually excellent experience I completely understand the desire to have a gaming experience that meets your aesthetic preferences every time. When your game time is limited, then there's not much reason to settle for an experience that doesn't satisfy. I have very strong ideas about standards in wargaming as enumerated and vigorously debated here:
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2014/08/painting-matters-in-defense-of-hobby.html

On the other hand, we don't have a specific painting standard beyond "Painted only" and while we hew very close to WYSIWYG, we welcome and encourage alternate models. Of course our model allowances are almost required since we play mostly generic and indie rulesets for which there are no official rulesets.

I'd not be interested in a club that required all GW minis, but still I'm tempted to say no snobbery. However, before I commit, I'd be curious to hear you clarify what you mean by.

- "I would even decline those who do the 'technically' 3 colour minimum paint job". Did people know ahead of time you had specific standards for the degree of painting required? Exactly how well does a mini have to be painted to be allowed on the table and how well are those standards enumerated and understood?

and

- "No Proxies" Does this simply mean that everything is WYSIWYG in terms of gear, armament and size, or does it also mean only GW figures and no alternate figures at all? Would Victoria or Anvil Industries figures be acceptable? Would properly converted historical models or models from other games that meet a 40k aesthetic and satisfy WYSIWYG be acceptable? What about scratchbuilds?

Snob? Definately! But who the hell cares, its how you want to play it!

Big P wrote:
Im firmly in the snob camp then.

Never played with unpainted figures and never will... wouldn't let them on my table either. Luckily my gaming comrades all have the same attitude and we have enough stuff to play while painting up new projects. Plus plenty of stuff for anyone new to use until they have stuff done.

Its gotta look pretty. Otherwise, may as well be a board game.

We are mainly historical gamers though, so that may be a defining difference. Historical gamers don't tend to use unpainted stuff really from what Ive seen over the last few decades.

That's been my experience too.

Unpainted armies never seemed to be a problem in a club that was mainly based on historicals. There wasn't even a stated rule. Everyone just took it for granted that we played games with painted figures.

I remember various sessions of madly painting units to get them ready for games the next day, force drying them very carefully in a slightly warm oven. When I came to 40K I did the same.

In my role-playing experience too, people used to paint their figures. Of course it's far less of a job to do half a dozen models than a whole army.

To be fair, I have not often come across 40K players who hadn't painted their army or at least were over half-way through the process. I suspect the people who genuinely won't do it at all are a small minority.

To offer the other perspective.

Playing table-top miniature games is an experience wholly unlike anything in an RTS or other video game, and some people really enjoy the gaming aspect.

It's easy to spend 30 minutes clipping and assembling a squad with no paint, primer, or sanding/line removal.

It's not easy to find a way to paint that army if you are a terrible painter, don't want to pay someone else to do it, or don't know what you want your final army list to look like.

For those folks, (I was one), it can be hard to fathom why some guy won't just be cool and play the game, because the game is why we buy these expensive mini's, right?

I've never been denied a game based on paint, but I've seen someone do it, and the rest of the stores response was like.. "Oh. Look at Mr. Fancy pants. Fine, he can not play a game."

We are a close-knit group, and took it as insult he told a really nice guy to bugger off because his plastic wasn't pretty.

Overall, I'm tolerant of any gaming preferences. Just thought I'd offer perspective.

Are you a snob? Probably not.
Are you elitist? Maybe. Not associating with others who don't meet your standards is kinda the definition of the word.
Are you doing something wrong? Nope!

A couple of pics from our group.

Overwhelming surprised by the positive response considering previously researched discussions!

 Thunderfrog wrote:

To offer the other perspective.

Playing table-top miniature games is an experience wholly unlike anything in an RTS or other video game, and some people really enjoy the gaming aspect.

It's easy to spend 30 minutes clipping and assembling a squad with no paint, primer, or sanding/line removal.

It's not easy to find a way to paint that army if you are a terrible painter, don't want to pay someone else to do it, or don't know what you want your final army list to look like.

For those folks, (I was one), it can be hard to fathom why some guy won't just be cool and play the game, because the game is why we buy these expensive mini's, right?

I've never been denied a game based on paint, but I've seen someone do it, and the rest of the stores response was like.. "Oh. Look at Mr. Fancy pants. Fine, he can not play a game."

We are a close-knit group, and took it as insult he told a really nice guy to bugger off because his plastic wasn't pretty.

Overall, I'm tolerant of any gaming preferences. Just thought I'd offer perspective.

Are you a snob? Probably not.
Are you elitist? Maybe. Not associating with others who don't meet your standards is kinda the definition of the word.
Are you doing something wrong? Nope!

This. It's not really a gakky move if it's your house and your club, you can set your own rules. It's another thing to go to a store and judge/mock people for not painting.