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So I want to take a break from painting sci fi and fantasy minis and move to some historical minis. Which game is best to buy into from the standpoint of a painter? I may have people interested in actually playing a game with historical minis so rules and playability are also a factor. I was thinking about picking up the bolt action starter set. Any suggestions?

Here is my 2 pence worth,
28mm Anything by Warlord games is good.
15 mm BAttlefront all eras are good.
So it just a matter of what scale you prefer.

There's some really cool-looking forces in the Crusades period, especially among the Saracens and Moors.

Have a look at Gripping Beast, who sell The Crescent and the Cross rules

http://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/SAGA_Dark_Age_and_The_Crescent__The_Cross_Products--category--10.html

Or Fireforge Games' Deus Vult (although they don't have as many miniatures from the forces of Islam available):

http://fireforge-games.com/webstore/deus-vult

Gripping Beast also sell the rules and miniatures for Saga, featuring various Vikings, Northmen and the various other peoples affected by their rads (from North American Skraelings to the Rus, I think).

Too Fat Lardies' Sharpe Practice rules are also a good set, I hear, of rules for doing small-unit actions in the Napoleonic period (and can also be adapted to cover the American Revolution and the war of 1812, and pretty much anything else in that period). Plenty of companies make miniatures for them - Wargames Foundry, Perry Miniatures, the list is long. A smaller scale game means you can take advantage of the colourful uniforms and banners without having to paint three hundred miniatures a side.

Or there's Ancients. Not a particularly helpful descriptor of a period, since it covers everything from Sumerians to the 100 Years War, but pick a period of history you like the look of and get stuck in. Romans vs ... well, anyone else in Europe, including other Romans, the Trojan War (as historical or as Hollywood as you want), or how about Samurai warfare? Two sets of rules are Kensei from Zenit Miniatures (which has a more fictional setting, but it should cover a more historically accurate game, too) and Ronin from Osprey.

http://web.zenitminiatures.es/en/kensei-the-game/

https://ospreypublishing.com/ronin-skirmish-wargames-in-the-age-of-the-samurai

I suppose you need to decide how many miniatures you're looking to paint and what sort of time period you're interested in. I've not even mentioned the American Civil War (or the English, for that matter, as part of a larger period of warfare in Europe),

Finally, I can't suggest a set of rules to go with them, but Conquest Miniatures do a really good range of miniatures for various eastern native American tribes.

http://www.conquestminiatures.com/

If you want to paint lots of spectacular detail then 28mm figures are the scale to pic. There are some very colourful armies in Ancients/Mediaeval, Renaissance and Napoleonics.

Ancient Greeks can have an exciting variety of shield designs.
Mediaeval Knights from about 1150 to 1350 AD have great heraldic blazons.
Aztecs offer a variety of spectacular troop types.

An allied army (British/Danish/Dutch/Austrian) of the Wars of the Spanish Succession would be very varied.

The range of uniforms and hats in Napoleonics is notorious.

Flags and unit emblems are another opportunity for showing off painting skills. Here again the Knights, Aztecs and black powder wars are good places to look.

Once armies start to move to camouflage the opportunity for colour goes out the window, of course.

rothrich wrote:
So I want to take a break from painting sci fi and fantasy minis and move to some historical minis. Which game is best to buy into from the standpoint of a painter? I may have people interested in actually playing a game with historical minis so rules and playability are also a factor. I was thinking about picking up the bolt action starter set. Any suggestions?

What periods in history are you interested in? What size game do you want to play?

Are you looking for a small unit/platoon scale games of 10-40 figures or are you looking for larger scale battles?

Ideally I would like to buy some sort of starter set. I don't want to have to track down models and rules from multiple places. How many models depends on the size I don't want to have to paint up 100 28mm infantry but wouldn't mind if they were 15mm

rothrich wrote:
Ideally I would like to buy some sort of starter set. I don't want to have to track down models and rules from multiple places. How many models depends on the size I don't want to have to paint up 100 28mm infantry but wouldn't mind if they were 15mm

Bolt Action has some reasonable starter or small sets and you are looking at 20-40 minis per side. It does a fair job for WW2 skirmish rules. The activation and pinning mechanics are neat.

Flames of War is the most popular 15mm WW2 rules out right now. I haven't played it, but this would get your larger engagements going and should be easy to find opponents, it also has starter sets

Hail Caesar is usually played in 28mm, and would take loads of minis to play (close to 100 minis). It is the most popular Ancient to Medieval. You can play it in 15mm, but you might have a harder time finding opponents (depends on your local scene, some folks prefer it in this scale). It has starter sets

Saga is a very good 25-60ish model skirmish game (games are 4 or 6 points, 1 point buys 4 hearthguard, 8 warriors, or 12 levy, plus each side has a warlord) for Dark Ages through the Crusades. There are custom adaptations for Greek, Roman, Japanese, and other periods/places. It has starter sets

Lion Rampant I haven't played, but have heard a lot of good things about it. It is similar to Saga, but doesn't really have a set time period per say. It could easily cover almost anything. No real starter sets that I know of (North Star may offer some), but easy to get into cheaply with various boxed sets.

Ronin or En Garde! (En Garde! is the European adaptation, and cleans up Ronin a little bit rules wise) are fantastic 5-20 model skirmish games. Ronin is primarily for Feudal Japan, but can cover other periods as well. En Garde! covers 3 Musketeers, English Civil War, Pirates, Solomon Kane, and other similar stuff. Both are good rule sets and need small model counts. En Garde! lets you generate your own lists through it's included points calculator. That allowed us to test drive it with Saxons vs Vikings, which worked out very well. North Star does starter sets, or individual minis are cheap enough to put together a force with no major hassle.

That is many of the more popular ones out right now, there are other good ones at different scales and adoption rates (Wings of Glory, Sails of Glory, Blitzkrieg Commander, Warmaster Ancients, The Sword and the Flame, etc). Realistically though, once you leave GW, most modern rules for historical actively encourage you to play it at any scale you want. You just have to find someone else who wants to play at that scale (many even include rules on how to adapt things to play at different scales). Bolt Action can be found at 20mm, for example, as the kits and minis are cheap that way. Saga I've seen at 15mm, as you can get cheaper minis for it (we briefly considered 15mm for Ancient Greek saga), and both I and another in my group have 15mm stuff for Hail Caesar!.

Many historical games don't need starter sets per say, as there are a wide range of manufacturers producing stuff that easily adapts to multiple platforms. Fireforge Templars, as an example, can easily be used for Saga, Hail Caesar, Lion Rampant, or others without much basing changes (base individually and place on movement trays to adapt to systems).

Bolt Action could easily be played at 15mm using Flames of War based troops and some dice to act as 'dead' counters, the rules typically don't prohibit this.

If your local store doesn't stock any of the Warlord Games stock and your looking online for a deal. NWS has great prices, I have bought from them several times they are legitimate

http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net

Play TEam YAnkee.....

rothrich wrote:
Ideally I would like to buy some sort of starter set. I don't want to have to track down models and rules from multiple places. How many models depends on the size I don't want to have to paint up 100 28mm infantry but wouldn't mind if they were 15mm

I honestly can't recommend anything because I have no idea what you are really looking for.

At this point, just find some models you like the look of, start painting them, and then find a game to match them up with later. One of the nice thing about Historical is that the figures and rules are not connected the same way as Fantasy/Sci-fi games. I mean, Greek Hoplites, Turkish Janissary, and French Old Guard, and SS soldiers are do not change no matter what Historical rules you are using.

 Easy E wrote:



At this point, just find some models you like the look of, start painting them, and then find a game to match them up with later. One of the nice thing about Historical is that the figures and rules are not connected the same way as Fantasy/Sci-fi games. I mean, Greek Hoplites, Turkish Janissary, and French Old Guard, and SS soldiers are do not change no matter what Historical rules you are using.

This.

If it is 15s that you are interested in and can find a source you trust for minis...then just pick up some that you like and start painting. The great thing about historicals is that you can't IP protect a Tiger tank, or Hoplites, or Samurai.

Second thing I would suggest...find an era that you like "two" armies for. I have both Polish and Turks in 10mm Pendrakens because I didn't want to have to build an army only to have it sit around for lack of an opponent with an army. If you have two armies, all you then need is an opponent. Those are easier to find. And due to the lack of needing certain sculpts for a proprietary game system, you can usually put together two significantly sized armies with multiple choices with the same amount of money that would would have used in purchasing a partial army of something proprietary.

Historicals also typically scale well. If you buy a rule system designed for 28s, but you just have 15s...cut distances in half and give it a try. Or keep the distances the way they are and just use smaller minis...you have both opposing forces so you don't have to worry about the visual problems of you having 10s and your opponent using 20s.

There is no "best".

Eureka makes good moderns... I'm really happy with my Rhodesians, Portuguese and Soviets. Lots of good detail and are as good as anyone. The pictures don't do them half the justice they deserve.

I would personally recommend Saga, as its a fantastically designed game.

However from the OP I guess they have an interest in WW2 if talking about Bolt Action? (rather than Dark Ages!)

If so - yes Bolt Action is going to be a great place to start. It's very popular as well so is probably one of the easiest games to find an opponent for (after 40k and X-Wing). And, fulfils your criteria of being able to buy everything from one company (the official line of products from Warlord, available in practically every wargaming store)

A new V2 of the rules about to be launched so a great place to start. Yes you can't buy main rules yet but you can start looking through the miniatures, pick up a box set of the ones you like the style of the most (and it's unlikely that the rules will change radically, so there will be a lot of 'safe' loadouts if putting together some infantry etc.

Here are some of my favorites:

Dark Ages
- SAGA
- Dux Britanniarum

WW2
- Bolt Action (Second Edition coming this September!)
- Battlegroup

Other
- Legends of the Old West (based on GW's excellent LotR system)
- Ronin/En Garde

Auman wrote:
The pictures don't do them half the justice they deserve.

This can't be overemphasized about Eureka's stuff. I dismissed them right up to seeing them in person.

Bolt action is probably single easiest gateway from GW games to historicals, perhaps tied with SAGA. Warlord has a nice range of plastic infantry and vehicles, the rules are straightforward without too much crunch, and there's just enough variety that things don't get boring.

SAGA has the advantages of a low model count, and very simple army building, while relying on a different battle board for each faction to differentiate them.

 Polonius wrote:
Bolt action is probably single easiest gateway from GW games to historicals, perhaps tied with SAGA. Warlord has a nice range of plastic infantry and vehicles, the rules are straightforward without too much crunch, and there's just enough variety that things don't get boring.

SAGA has the advantages of a low model count, and very simple army building, while relying on a different battle board for each faction to differentiate them.

You are rite BA is differently plays alot like the old 40k.

7I saw someone play SAGA in 6mm at the weekend. Lion Rampant is a nice quick medieval skirmish system.