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I didn't so long ago started in Bolt Action, and throughout my 500 pts games against USA, it seemed that my volksgrenadier platoon had no way to take over because of the fact that either pure volksgrenadiere are Underpowered in 500 points, or I lack support such as MMG etc if I take veterans to pretend being VG.

My lack of skill/luck/good list may/must play a role (highlight the right elements ). But, that's neither a whine thread nor a tactica. As a matter of fact, the question is more general: what is an historically accurate list worth especially against a non historical one? It does heavily matter in small games, what about larger?

The balance shouldn't be very far off as long as your opponent's list is made for fun, and not made to counter what you're playing. I play a Mid-1944 Panzergrenadier force whilst my opponent usually brings a mix of American paratroopers, armour, and artillery. And the games are always really close. In the larger games(2000+ points) I think it will make a larger difference.

True. So I just gotta wait for larger games to be played and that'll make no difference anymore, or very little. Im going to wait for futher opinions

Depends on the list, really. You can make historically accurate lists and still be moderately competitive. Just make sure you have all the tools you need to deal with your opponents army. If your VG aren't getting the job done, you may need to consider taking a +2 leadership officer or using some teams to help whittle down enemy squads. Consider trying out mortars, snipers, and flamethrowers.

Scaling up may help certain aspects, but will not necessarily play in your favor in every case. For example, the higher points you go the more people can abuse their number of order dice to gain advantage (generally not very historical). What it will let you do is give you the opportunity to use the tools you need to deal with opponent's armies.

So what in your opponent's US army is giving you trouble? Veteran TF infantry, BARs, gyro-stabilized howitzers, and air observers are common obstacles when fighting the US.

Can you provide us the 500 pt. list you are using as well?

I'm having trouble with his 2 12 men squads veteran. Since they can both move and shoot without caring, well, that hurts. I can't have them fleeing through moral check, I can't eliminate then, I can't use number, I can't use fire superiority, I can't use mobility. That's why it's hard countering them.

My list:

Veteran infantry squad: 2 smg, 1 LMG, 5 assault rifles, 9 soldiers.
Veteran infantry squad: same but with rifles instead of assault rifles.
1 MMG, regular.
1 second Lt, regular.

I tried change the MMG for a medic (but that's quite pointless I think) or a half track (a bit better but what happens when his empty?...)

My analysis is that I'm starving on support troops, and that them ony could help me out.

Thanks for your answer.

Drop the veterans down to regulars, ditch the assault rifles.
That should give you enough points to use a medium mortar with a spotter.
Fire your mortar at a unit after it has moved. Next turn, Fire at the same unit first priority, if you missed it the first time.
A medium mortar can dish out a lot of pins quickly. They won't be able to move and fire if they fail their order test due to pins.
That should even things up.

Thanks for your advice. I currenty have no mortar and will take LeIG instead when I buy it. But if I drop the assault rifles, my platoon in no longer hitorically accurate. See the point?
However I notice that what I actually lack are support units. So the main reflexion to be busy about is: how to include more? Do you guys believe volksgrnadier from the book's list (inexperienced) at 129 points with asault rifles full would do? Otherwise it IS historically accurate to make a mix of rife and STG in every squad because of the logistical problems.

List seems good. I assume you do not have to deal with tanks hence the lack of AT. Makes sense at 500 points. Assault rifles are great, no need to drop them. You could afford the extra support team by dropping the LMGs on your squads and an assault rifle or two.

You are right, a medic would not be a good investment with so few troops. They aren't bad at 1k when you have more bodies, and the cheap order die can be nice.

There is one solution to large veteran squads: pin them out. You'll never kill them all, but put a few pins on them and they're just a huge point sink. Easier said than done, I know, but it is your only reasonable option. The good news is these squads are big, and it should be easy for you to have a numerical advantage to both get order dice faster and get more pins out.

Half tracks are a lot of points, especially at 500. Trucks provide the same role for 1/3 the points with comparable survivability (except to small arms fire). When your men are out, they can stick around and shoot (assuming your group plays that the vehicle has a dedicated gunner- which German half tracks did, historically). But if it ends its turn closer to enemies than to friendlies, it is removed as a casualty.

Is the question - are the goals of (a) writing "competitive" lists and (b) writing "historically accurate" lists mutually exclusive?

This probably comes down to how flexible you are about defining "historically accurate," not only in itself, i.e., what historical unit you are simulating, but also in terms of the rules, i.e., whether there is more than one entry in the list that can simulate the unit in question, regardless of under which name the unit is published in the book.

Even so - I can tell you this much: the design itself has priorities and "historical accuracy" falls lower than general "playability," at least so far as the core rules are concerned; people might argue the opposite is the case regarding certain lists.

I think "accuracy" is a bugbear you can make as big or little a deal as you please. Everyone has different standards on this question. For me, I can't stand most a-historical match ups so pick up gaming BA is pretty much no-go for me. At the same time, I'm not interested in the list writing equivalent of button-counting.

Thanks Warptide and Manchu for your posts. I may try to make Volksgrenadier as described by the so called entry. They're cheaper and can pin anyway. This way, those two squads allow me to field an mmg as support team.

Unfortinatly, I currently have: 1 full platoon of VKG (I'll write Volksgrenadier this way). (1 veteran squad to give them rifles, 2 STG squads either veteran or inexperienced/green, each squads has an MG42 and 2 SMGs in addition, 9 men.)
2 officiers.
1 MMG
up to two further squads ready to be built.
1 medic.
1 spotter/air observer/artillery officer (one size fits all)
1 halftrack
1 stug.

My range of possibilities is actually quite narrow but, hey, no defeatism, all that I can't beat is having useless special rules

Manchu, if I sum up what you think: rules don't encourage historical lists anyway. I mean by historical, in accordance with theorical gear and number, both as far as the kind of weapons and their number are concerned.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
Manchu, if I sum up what you think: rules don't encourage historical lists anyway.

I think the rules do not forbid ahistorical gaming. The basic army lists generally encompass the entire gamut of a faction's historical options, so it is perfectly possible to take advantage of the stats themselves without any consideration to what would have been where at which period. "Historical accuracy" is to a very great extent a standard left up to each player to define for and enforce upon himself.

See your point, thanks!

I think you have a lot of leeway with getting historically accurate Volksgrenadiers. The divisions were of extremely variable quality, so you aren't going to have any issue with dropping them from veteran to regular, and it's definitely not inaccurate to field a unit that had fewer assault rifles, assault rifles weren't everywhere and units that should have had them didn't necessarily have them, especially in full numbers.

That said, don't drop assault rifles, but rather spread them out. Give some to the squad that has only rifles, I find its good to have at least 1 rifle guy in a squad to absorb that first casualty.

If you have having trouble with his veteran squads, try to get some heavy firepower. If you can fit a 2cm FlaK in there, great. A quad-2cm? Fantastic. At 500 points you might have trouble though, so honestly I'd say hold and defend. As Americans, he is probably always moving simply because he can. So if you hunker down and shoot him as he comes in, that's the way to go. It's not too fun, but will get the job done. If you want to attack, try and get an Sd Kfz 222 or even a 221 on the board, it sounds like he has almost no (maybe even no) anti armor, so that would do great. To improve accuracy make it a Sd Kfz 250 with the 2cm turret, but that may be too many points.

Glory to the Asur wrote:
I think you have a lot of leeway with getting historically accurate Volksgrenadiers. The divisions were of extremely variable quality, so you aren't going to have any issue with dropping them from veteran to regular, and it's definitely not inaccurate to field a unit that had fewer assault rifles, assault rifles weren't everywhere and units that should have had them didn't necessarily have them, especially in full numbers.

That said, don't drop assault rifles, but rather spread them out. Give some to the squad that has only rifles, I find its good to have at least 1 rifle guy in a squad to absorb that first casualty.

If you have having trouble with his veteran squads, try to get some heavy firepower. If you can fit a 2cm FlaK in there, great. A quad-2cm? Fantastic. At 500 points you might have trouble though, so honestly I'd say hold and defend. As Americans, he is probably always moving simply because he can. So if you hunker down and shoot him as he comes in, that's the way to go. It's not too fun, but will get the job done. If you want to attack, try and get an Sd Kfz 222 or even a 221 on the board, it sounds like he has almost no (maybe even no) anti armor, so that would do great. To improve accuracy make it a Sd Kfz 250 with the 2cm turret, but that may be too many points.

Thanks guy, what your saying about lack of Equipment in real life is totally true, but in fact i aimed at Something as close as posible to theorical squad gear at a decimated battalion level (because otherwise too costy).

Your post is however very helpful, thnaks again!