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Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

Hello all. First, here's the list...

Orruk Megaboss
War Chanter
War Chanter
Ironfist Battalion #1
5-man Brutes
10-man Ardboys
10-man Ardboys
Ironfist Battalion #2
3-man Gore-gruntas
3-man Gore-gruntas
10-man Ardboys

This is for a tournament where we'll be rolling off for allegiance traits and artefacts, so I can't decide which ones I want.

So, questions...

1. Does this look viable? Between the core Destruction ability and the Ardfist Battalion ability, I'll be getting an extra 2D6" of movement for all the non Heroes in the Hero Phase. I'm hoping that gets them across the board quickly.

2. Are 10-man Ardboys squads big enough? I'm not sure if I need to go 20 or not. I'm toying with the idea of dropping a Warchanter, dropping an Ironfist Battalion, dropping the Brutes and just running bigger squads of Ardboys. Thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I need larger Ardboys units, would this look better?

Orruk Mega Boss
War Chanter
Weirdnod Shaman
Ironfist Battalion
6x Gore-gruntas
20x Ardboys
20x Ardboys

This one is 1480 points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/13 15:32:40


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Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

 Kriswall wrote:
Hello all. First, here's the list...

Orruk Megaboss
War Chanter
War Chanter
Ironfist Battalion #1
5-man Brutes
10-man Ardboys
10-man Ardboys
Ironfist Battalion #2
3-man Gore-gruntas
3-man Gore-gruntas
10-man Ardboys

This is for a tournament where we'll be rolling off for allegiance traits and artefacts, so I can't decide which ones I want.

So, questions...

1. Does this look viable? Between the core Destruction ability and the Ardfist Battalion ability, I'll be getting an extra 2D6" of movement for all the non Heroes in the Hero Phase. I'm hoping that gets them across the board quickly.

2. Are 10-man Ardboys squads big enough? I'm not sure if I need to go 20 or not. I'm toying with the idea of dropping a Warchanter, dropping an Ironfist Battalion, dropping the Brutes and just running bigger squads of Ardboys. Thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I need larger Ardboys units, would this look better?

Orruk Mega Boss
War Chanter
Weirdnod Shaman
Ironfist Battalion
6x Gore-gruntas
20x Ardboys
20x Ardboys

This one is 1480 points.[/quote

A mix of the both lists seems the best option:

Megaboss 140pts
Warchanter 80pts
Weirdnob: 120pts

Ironfist:
5xBrutes
20xardboyz
3xgore-gruntas
3xgore-gruntas
10xarboyz

Brutes are almost a must-have in an Ironjawz army, as they are excellent monster hunters (specially the boss). Keep the klaw+smasha loadout as you get more mileage from the WAAAGH! ability (as you get 1 attack per weapon) and the -2 rend is beastly, specially with 3 attacks automatically hitting.
Having 5 units lets you have enough bodies to play all the mission types: your heroes should go to the frontlines. not holding objectives, which is the purpose of either the gore-gruntas and the 10-boy squad. Meanwhile the bulk of your army marches onward.
Warchanters are good force-multipliers specially for ardboyz as they make them faster and ameliorate their "bad" hit rolls (and trust me, it will be noted when rolling 60 dice!)

Oh, you'll be charging by turn 2... or one at best with the gruntas (or with EVERYTHING if your opponent was meelee happy).
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

Thanks for the advice! My two most common opponents play Flesh-Eater Courts, who will run straight at me, and Sylvaneth, who will hide in their trees and shoot at me.

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Abel





Washington State

You need a Weirdboy Shaman, even if he kills a bunch of Ironjawz from casting spells. The ability to shut down (dispell) an enemy spellcaster is critical in an army with no shooting. In other words, you have no way to respond to enemy shooting with your own shooting, so why hand them another phase of the game (Hero phase spell casting)?

10 model 'Ardboyz are fiine, especially if you have a Weirdboy throwing shield on them.

Use the Gore Gruntas to rush up and engage ASAP (suicide move)- this gives you some board control and choosing where on the table the main fight will take place. They should last a turn or two allowing the rest of your slow moving force to get into combat.

Basically, you'll have three components to your force: The Megaboss and Brutes in group 1, Weirdboy, Warchanter, and Ardboys group 2, and Gore Gruntas in group 3. Each can really function well without the other, but if you can leverage your combats, you can kick some serious butt!


Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

 Tamwulf wrote:
You need a Weirdboy Shaman, even if he kills a bunch of Ironjawz from casting spells. The ability to shut down (dispell) an enemy spellcaster is critical in an army with no shooting. In other words, you have no way to respond to enemy shooting with your own shooting, so why hand them another phase of the game (Hero phase spell casting)?

10 model 'Ardboyz are fiine, especially if you have a Weirdboy throwing shield on them.

Use the Gore Gruntas to rush up and engage ASAP (suicide move)- this gives you some board control and choosing where on the table the main fight will take place. They should last a turn or two allowing the rest of your slow moving force to get into combat.

Basically, you'll have three components to your force: The Megaboss and Brutes in group 1, Weirdboy, Warchanter, and Ardboys group 2, and Gore Gruntas in group 3. Each can really function well without the other, but if you can leverage your combats, you can kick some serious butt!



Thanks. This is very helpful.

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Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

Just be mindful that Ironjaws are armies that favor concentraion: the megaboss provides 1 (or 2) bonus attack per weapon to all units within 10 inches. That means your guys will do better (and the boss will do better) the closer you're to the rest of your army.
Missions like... what was its name? The one with 1 objective per corner of the battlefield. That kind of missions will force you to split and make your missions hard.
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

Lord Kragan wrote:
Just be mindful that Ironjaws are armies that favor concentraion: the megaboss provides 1 (or 2) bonus attack per weapon to all units within 10 inches. That means your guys will do better (and the boss will do better) the closer you're to the rest of your army.
Missions like... what was its name? The one with 1 objective per corner of the battlefield. That kind of missions will force you to split and make your missions hard.


I thought about that, but I think it'll still be effective if I treat the army like three mini-armies that work particularly well when close to each other.

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You can also try for an oblique tactic: focuse most of your army on one flank and place the 20 man ardoyz blob on the other, fend off the enemy and crush the enemy flank to sweep and ensure victory.
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

I think I've decided on this as my final army list. The only thing I still need to decide is what traits and artefacts to take.

Orruk Mega Boss
Weirdnob Shaman
Warchanter
Ironfist Battlation
- 5x Brutes
- 20x Ardboys
- 10x Ardboys
- 3x Gore-gruntas
- 3x Gore-gruntas

So, what does everybody think of the traits and artefacts? I'm thinking about giving the Mega Boss the trait that gives him +1 Wound and the Battle-Brew artefact. I'm not 100% sold on this though. Having a battalion gives me a second artefact, but I'm not sure which to go with and I'm not sure whether to give it to the Shaman or Warchanter. Any ideas?

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Monstrous Master Moulder





Longmeadow MA 25+ Trade Rep

Give him the Ravager trait, that +2 for Rampaging Destroyers comes in really handy. Battle Brew (hitting and wounding on 2's) is something I don't leave home without. You'll also have another artifact for a different hero, because you took a battalion.

120 points for a buff bot that might unbind something? I mean I see the utility, but the points just aren't worth it. If you have the model, take a second Megaboss because those ARE worth it. I'd even consider taking another Warchanter instead, double down on the unit of 20 Ardboyz for a 2+ to hit 3+ to wound. Way more worthwhile utility imo and experience.

I've also found that I can pretty easily get a first turn charge with Ardboyz with the banner, Ironfist and Rampaging Destroyers. If I get first turn I'll normally try to lock down a key component in my opponents army. Brutes/heroes wait in the wings for next turn to swing around a flank and add some punch.

Goregruntaz are not going to much big units, and more than likely won't do a ton of damage. They do however tank very well, so fire them at something you need locked down until something carrying a bigger stick gets there.

"Orkses never lost a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!"

I dig how in a setting where giant, muscled fungus men ride Mad Max cars and use their own teeth as currency, the concept of little engineering dudes with beards was considered a step too far down the aisle of silliness.
ADB 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

 Dez wrote:
Give him the Ravager trait, that +2 for Rampaging Destroyers comes in really handy. Battle Brew (hitting and wounding on 2's) is something I don't leave home without. You'll also have another artifact for a different hero, because you took a battalion.

120 points for a buff bot that might unbind something? I mean I see the utility, but the points just aren't worth it. If you have the model, take a second Megaboss because those ARE worth it. I'd even consider taking another Warchanter instead, double down on the unit of 20 Ardboyz for a 2+ to hit 3+ to wound. Way more worthwhile utility imo and experience.

I've also found that I can pretty easily get a first turn charge with Ardboyz with the banner, Ironfist and Rampaging Destroyers. If I get first turn I'll normally try to lock down a key component in my opponents army. Brutes/heroes wait in the wings for next turn to swing around a flank and add some punch.

Goregruntaz are not going to much big units, and more than likely won't do a ton of damage. They do however tank very well, so fire them at something you need locked down until something carrying a bigger stick gets there.


That's not a bad idea with the dual Warchanters. I'm getting a second Start Collecting box, so I'll have two of them. I know how the rules work, but it didn't click that I could give 20 Ardboys a 2+ to hit using two of them. That would also put me at 1440 points, which could be advantageous.

The second Megaboss is also a good idea, but those things are $40 each. Buying one of them is a hard enough pill to swallow. Given that I have the battalion, I could give the second Megaboss a Battle Brew also.

So... voting time...

Drop the Shaman for a...
1. ...second Warchanter at $0 to double buff the Ardboys to a 2+ to hit and have a 1440 point list.
2. ...second Megaboss w/Battle Brew at $40 for some tag team face smashing and have a 1500 point list?

I can see advantages either way. I'm thinking that the benefit to hit for the Ardboys might make up for the wounds that the Megaboss could be causing. Then again, the Megaboss is somewhat terrifying and might cause my opponents to focus fire with ranged/spells and leave the Ardboys alone long enough for them to charge. Plus, as the man says, one is a target while two is a threat.

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Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

 Dez wrote:
Give him the Ravager trait, that +2 for Rampaging Destroyers comes in really handy. Battle Brew (hitting and wounding on 2's) is something I don't leave home without. You'll also have another artifact for a different hero, because you took a battalion.

120 points for a buff bot that might unbind something? I mean I see the utility, but the points just aren't worth it. If you have the model, take a second Megaboss because those ARE worth it. I'd even consider taking another Warchanter instead, double down on the unit of 20 Ardboyz for a 2+ to hit 3+ to wound. Way more worthwhile utility imo and experience.

I've also found that I can pretty easily get a first turn charge with Ardboyz with the banner, Ironfist and Rampaging Destroyers. If I get first turn I'll normally try to lock down a key component in my opponents army. Brutes/heroes wait in the wings for next turn to swing around a flank and add some punch.

Goregruntaz are not going to much big units, and more than likely won't do a ton of damage. They do however tank very well, so fire them at something you need locked down until something carrying a bigger stick gets there.


A few matizations:

A) the shamans works wonders as a magic defense (for the shield and unbinding). And adds a source of rampaging destroyers. He also makes the footsloggger more worthwhile with the +1w trait. 8 wounds and a 2+ save is anything but shabby.
B) there's no further utility in bringing a second warboss, as the WAAAGH! is a command ability, so having two won't add up much more than a killy combatant, and if that is the case don't be a cheapskate and shell for another unit of brutes. Now, those have the works with just a single warchanter and a megaboss.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/17 13:47:52


 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

Lord Kragan wrote:
 Dez wrote:
Give him the Ravager trait, that +2 for Rampaging Destroyers comes in really handy. Battle Brew (hitting and wounding on 2's) is something I don't leave home without. You'll also have another artifact for a different hero, because you took a battalion.

120 points for a buff bot that might unbind something? I mean I see the utility, but the points just aren't worth it. If you have the model, take a second Megaboss because those ARE worth it. I'd even consider taking another Warchanter instead, double down on the unit of 20 Ardboyz for a 2+ to hit 3+ to wound. Way more worthwhile utility imo and experience.

I've also found that I can pretty easily get a first turn charge with Ardboyz with the banner, Ironfist and Rampaging Destroyers. If I get first turn I'll normally try to lock down a key component in my opponents army. Brutes/heroes wait in the wings for next turn to swing around a flank and add some punch.

Goregruntaz are not going to much big units, and more than likely won't do a ton of damage. They do however tank very well, so fire them at something you need locked down until something carrying a bigger stick gets there.


A few matizations:

A) the shamans works wonders as a magic defense (for the shield and unbinding). And adds a source of rampaging destroyers. He also makes the footsloggger more worthwhile with the +1w trait. 8 wounds and a 2+ save is anything but shabby.
B) there's no further utility in bringing a second warboss, as the WAAAGH! is a command ability, so having two won't add up much more than a killy combatant, and if that is the case don't be a cheapskate and shell for another unit of brutes. Now, those have the works with just a single warchanter and a megaboss.


I only have 140 points to work with. If I could add another Battleline unit, I would. I can't as all three options cost 180 points.

The way I see it, I'm committed to one Megaboss as General and one Warchanter.

My options for the 140 points are...

1. Orruk Megaboss w/Battle-Brew but WITHOUT a command ability to act as a nasty combatant. I'd be at 1500 points exactly, so it's likely that my opponent would gain benefit from having a smaller list. I like this option because I feel that people will be overly worried about two Megabosses and ignore the rest of my army when they shouldn't. I feel like this option gives me the best opportunity to play head games.

2. Weirdnob Shama w/Talisman of Protection to act as a spell counter and Mystic Shield caster. I'd be at 1480 points, so I'd gain benefit only over people with maxes out lists. This is a risky choice because there's no guarantee that either spell countering or casting will work. I could very well be paying 120 points for nothing. Then again, Mystic Shield or a successful unbinding could be a game changer.

3. Warchanter w/Talisman of Protection to act as a to-hit buffer for the large Ardboys unit. I'd be at 1440 points, so I'm likely to gain benefit from having the smaller list. The to-hit buff is automatic, but otherwise this guy doesn't do much. The real question is will the to-hit buff outweigh the damage the Megaboss could cause? Also, I already own the model.

I'm so torn. I feel like all three options have advantages.

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Abel





Washington State

Well, play all three options (just proxy a second Megaboss), and then go with the one you like the most. My thoughts:

1). The extra Megaboss won't be able to use his Command Trait, but still has his buff bubble for Brutes. I think if I was running multiple Megaboss's, I would run at least one unit of Brutes for each Megaboss and use each as it's own little self contained unit. Before adding a second Megaboss though, I would seriously get a second unit of Brutes. 5 Brutes have more wounds, more attacks, and can do more damage than one Megaboss. Five extra models allow for an extended front and the ability to manipulate the battlefield by preventing your enemy move moving within 3" unless they are charging. Basically, Brutes > second Megaboss.

2). Magic is a bit too random for my tastes in AoS. With that being said, you have a CHANCE at buffing your own units, causing mortal wounds (your only source of Mortal Wounds BTW), and disrupting enemy spell casting. Arcane Terrain and 20+ models makes casting Foot of Gork a 7+. Without a Shaman, you have none of those things, and the only thing preventing your opponent from casting a spell is his dice. You are trading away the potential of greatness for what? A Shaman is still an Ironjaw, and he is no slouch in close combat with his Waagh! Stick.

3). The extra Warchanter isn't that bad. He's better then a 'Ardboy, but weaker then a Brute. At least he has 6 wounds and counts as a Hero. Otherwise... Ironjawz produce a stupid amount of attacks. I haven't seen or played against all the possible armies out there, but the ones I have played against, the Ironjawz seem to put out a disproportionate amount of attacks. I've never really felt like I needed help hitting or wounding, as I've always had more than enough attacks to cause a Bravery test. There have been a couple times when I wish my Gore Grunta's would have hit more, but that's just because I only use 3 of them right now (I got three more on the painting table).

From a meta standpoint, your turns will go much faster then your opponent's. Your Hero phase will consist of an extra 6" move and choice of command ability. Then move/charge, followed by close combat. You opponent will have a longer Hero phase, due to spells, command ability, and Allegiance ability. Then his move/charge, shooting phase, and finally close combat. On top of that, you'll probably have a much smaller army. Basically, your games will probably all go to time during a tournament and you won't get all your turns in. So be prepared for that, and grab as many objectives and points as you can early.

Best advice: Try all three armies a couple times and then use the one you feel the most comfortable with.

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder





Longmeadow MA 25+ Trade Rep

I do agree that if the points were there, another unit of Brutes would be so good. The points aren't there though, so we are looking at heroes that will add Rampaging Destroyers regardless.

One of the big factors you need to look for when making a competitive list is minimizing the random factor. The Weirdnob and Megaboss abilities just happen, no rolling involved. The Weirdnob is 120 points of random and hard to cast spells, awesome for fun games but a liability in matched/competitive play.

Weirdnob is just so, so bad for matched play. It's terrible, because I really love the model and Magic is one of my favorite parts of the game. In all my games with Ironjawz (it has to be 30 by now) every time I've brought a Weirdnob it hasn't pulled any weight or added to the synergy. 120 points for a buffbot that may dispel something that you probably aren't that worried about anyway because Ironjawz are so tough? 10 and 8 to cast spells that rely on further lucky rolls and short range (Puke) to even work? Granted you can keep all the Ardboyz around him for a bonus, but now you've put all your eggs in one basket to maybe cast a spell that might do something and will weaken off your own models with mortal wounds. Not to mention in 4 scenarios you'll need to split your forces up by 3 or 4, so you are further mitigating his ability to cast. Leave it at home.

Stacking +1 to hit for 80 points on a Warchanter is so much better. Turn up the damage output by taking Battle Brew on the Warchanter and the Megaboss.

While taking a second Megaboss won't add a lot of synergy (with the exception of Brutes, Go on Lads, Get Stuck in!), he is a tank that hits like a tank! He mulches most heroes, and as he does so he adds +1 W and +1 Attack (Strength from Victory). Give him Battle Brew, and he almost can't miss.

Sorry to be so down on the Weirdnob. I love the model, he is awesome in open play. He's fun in matched play. In competitive play, he's the Albatross.

"Orkses never lost a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!"

I dig how in a setting where giant, muscled fungus men ride Mad Max cars and use their own teeth as currency, the concept of little engineering dudes with beards was considered a step too far down the aisle of silliness.
ADB 
   
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Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

Ok, so the Weirdnob is off the table.

Sounds like I need to pick between...

1. Megaboss w/Battlebrew and 1500 points
2. Warchanter w/Battlebrew and 1440 points

The second option is probably the one I'll go with. Stacking the to hit buff on 20 Ardboyz, making them 2+/3+ should make up for the lack of an extra battle tank, err.. Megaboss. The 60 point deficit also means I'll probably gain benefit against most opponents.

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Go for the megaboss, because that way you're getting a back-up source of WAAAGH! as he can become your general should the other die.
   
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Longmeadow MA 25+ Trade Rep

Lord Kragan wrote:
Go for the megaboss, because that way you're getting a back-up source of WAAAGH! as he can become your general should the other die.


Whoah, where did I miss this rule? Not sarcastic I really just scanned through again (rules and GHB) and can't find it

"Orkses never lost a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!"

I dig how in a setting where giant, muscled fungus men ride Mad Max cars and use their own teeth as currency, the concept of little engineering dudes with beards was considered a step too far down the aisle of silliness.
ADB 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

Lord Kragan wrote:
Go for the megaboss, because that way you're getting a back-up source of WAAAGH! as he can become your general should the other die.


I heard someone mention that this can happen, but was unable to find it in the rules. Can you give a citation? Where is the rule saying another model can become General?

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Cannot remember, but the alleigance abilities state that if you have to choose a general (so you can) you generate their command ability.
   
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Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Lord Kragan wrote:
Cannot remember, but the alleigance abilities state that if you have to choose a general (so you can) you generate their command ability.

You always have a general (see The General' on the second page of the AoS rules), but I don't see anything that allows you to select another model as your general if the first is killed.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
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Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

 Ghaz wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
Cannot remember, but the alleigance abilities state that if you have to choose a general (so you can) you generate their command ability.

You always have a general (see The General' on the second page of the AoS rules), but I don't see anything that allows you to select another model as your general if the first is killed.


"If for some reason you had to choose a new general during the battle" blablalbabla. That's something stated specifically stated by the GHB's when selecting command traits so according to GHB that's a possibility and can happen.
   
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Maryland, US

I think there are certain battleplans that allow for it (the ritual comes to mind and i am sure there are others). If you are just using the rules it would not happen. So it would be battleplan specific whether you needed two models with command abilities or not.
   
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Longmeadow MA 25+ Trade Rep

It's under Command Traits in the Allegiance Abilities, but doesn't imply at all that you chose a new general if yours dies. The rules state that you choose your general when creating your list, though there may be some Warscroll abilities (or ones to come) that let you choose a new general.

"Orkses never lost a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!"

I dig how in a setting where giant, muscled fungus men ride Mad Max cars and use their own teeth as currency, the concept of little engineering dudes with beards was considered a step too far down the aisle of silliness.
ADB 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Lord Kragan wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
Cannot remember, but the alleigance abilities state that if you have to choose a general (so you can) you generate their command ability.

You always have a general (see The General' on the second page of the AoS rules), but I don't see anything that allows you to select another model as your general if the first is killed.


"If for some reason you had to choose a new general during the battle" blablalbabla. That's something stated specifically stated by the GHB's when selecting command traits so according to GHB that's a possibility and can happen.

Again, I don't see anything that allows you to select another model as your general if the first is killed. Just because there is a contingency in case that should happen (due to scenario special rules, ettc.) does not in and of itself allow you to choose a new general.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

I decided on dual Warchanters and only using 1440 out of 1500 of my points. I think the Warchanter is less of a threat/target, so I'm likely to get the +1 to hit buff for most of the game.

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Abel





Washington State

 Dez wrote:
I do agree that if the points were there, another unit of Brutes would be so good. The points aren't there though, so we are looking at heroes that will add Rampaging Destroyers regardless.

One of the big factors you need to look for when making a competitive list is minimizing the random factor. The Weirdnob and Megaboss abilities just happen, no rolling involved. The Weirdnob is 120 points of random and hard to cast spells, awesome for fun games but a liability in matched/competitive play.

Weirdnob is just so, so bad for matched play. It's terrible, because I really love the model and Magic is one of my favorite parts of the game. In all my games with Ironjawz (it has to be 30 by now) every time I've brought a Weirdnob it hasn't pulled any weight or added to the synergy. 120 points for a buffbot that may dispel something that you probably aren't that worried about anyway because Ironjawz are so tough? 10 and 8 to cast spells that rely on further lucky rolls and short range (Puke) to even work? Granted you can keep all the Ardboyz around him for a bonus, but now you've put all your eggs in one basket to maybe cast a spell that might do something and will weaken off your own models with mortal wounds. Not to mention in 4 scenarios you'll need to split your forces up by 3 or 4, so you are further mitigating his ability to cast. Leave it at home.

Stacking +1 to hit for 80 points on a Warchanter is so much better. Turn up the damage output by taking Battle Brew on the Warchanter and the Megaboss.

While taking a second Megaboss won't add a lot of synergy (with the exception of Brutes, Go on Lads, Get Stuck in!), he is a tank that hits like a tank! He mulches most heroes, and as he does so he adds +1 W and +1 Attack (Strength from Victory). Give him Battle Brew, and he almost can't miss.

Sorry to be so down on the Weirdnob. I love the model, he is awesome in open play. He's fun in matched play. In competitive play, he's the Albatross.


Wow, your experience with the Weirdnob is totally different from mine. I find him to be the MVP of most of my games, and you realize he has four spells, right? Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield? Have you played against a Ghouldking Court with 5 Hero's that are Wizards and casting spells every Hero phase? Ironjawz are big and tanky, but when your opponent is bringing back all the models you just killed, and giving them buffs as well, and still doing mortal wounds to you... it just seems silly to me not to at least take the Shaman for the chance to Unbind some of those spells.

Damage output has never been an issue for my army.

I always run my army in groups- Megaboss and Brutes, Gore Gruntas, and Ardboys with Shaman. If I have to split my forces, it just means my opponent has to as well, or they'll lose the game. Boss and Brutes go one way, Shaman and Ardboys the other, and the Gore Gruntas are fast enough to swing between the two as required. If I ran my army as one big blob of models, then I could see some value in the Warchanter. Given how much you extol his virtues, I'll give him a try in my next couple of games, but I don't see it changing my opinion of him. If I was a WAAC player, yeah, I'd try to minimize the randomness of the game as much as possible. I'm not a WAAC player (and yes, I do play in a lot of Tournaments).

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

 Tamwulf wrote:
 Dez wrote:
I do agree that if the points were there, another unit of Brutes would be so good. The points aren't there though, so we are looking at heroes that will add Rampaging Destroyers regardless.

One of the big factors you need to look for when making a competitive list is minimizing the random factor. The Weirdnob and Megaboss abilities just happen, no rolling involved. The Weirdnob is 120 points of random and hard to cast spells, awesome for fun games but a liability in matched/competitive play.

Weirdnob is just so, so bad for matched play. It's terrible, because I really love the model and Magic is one of my favorite parts of the game. In all my games with Ironjawz (it has to be 30 by now) every time I've brought a Weirdnob it hasn't pulled any weight or added to the synergy. 120 points for a buffbot that may dispel something that you probably aren't that worried about anyway because Ironjawz are so tough? 10 and 8 to cast spells that rely on further lucky rolls and short range (Puke) to even work? Granted you can keep all the Ardboyz around him for a bonus, but now you've put all your eggs in one basket to maybe cast a spell that might do something and will weaken off your own models with mortal wounds. Not to mention in 4 scenarios you'll need to split your forces up by 3 or 4, so you are further mitigating his ability to cast. Leave it at home.

Stacking +1 to hit for 80 points on a Warchanter is so much better. Turn up the damage output by taking Battle Brew on the Warchanter and the Megaboss.

While taking a second Megaboss won't add a lot of synergy (with the exception of Brutes, Go on Lads, Get Stuck in!), he is a tank that hits like a tank! He mulches most heroes, and as he does so he adds +1 W and +1 Attack (Strength from Victory). Give him Battle Brew, and he almost can't miss.

Sorry to be so down on the Weirdnob. I love the model, he is awesome in open play. He's fun in matched play. In competitive play, he's the Albatross.


Wow, your experience with the Weirdnob is totally different from mine. I find him to be the MVP of most of my games, and you realize he has four spells, right? Arcane Bolt and Mystic Shield? Have you played against a Ghouldking Court with 5 Hero's that are Wizards and casting spells every Hero phase? Ironjawz are big and tanky, but when your opponent is bringing back all the models you just killed, and giving them buffs as well, and still doing mortal wounds to you... it just seems silly to me not to at least take the Shaman for the chance to Unbind some of those spells.

Damage output has never been an issue for my army.

I always run my army in groups- Megaboss and Brutes, Gore Gruntas, and Ardboys with Shaman. If I have to split my forces, it just means my opponent has to as well, or they'll lose the game. Boss and Brutes go one way, Shaman and Ardboys the other, and the Gore Gruntas are fast enough to swing between the two as required. If I ran my army as one big blob of models, then I could see some value in the Warchanter. Given how much you extol his virtues, I'll give him a try in my next couple of games, but I don't see it changing my opinion of him. If I was a WAAC player, yeah, I'd try to minimize the randomness of the game as much as possible. I'm not a WAAC player (and yes, I do play in a lot of Tournaments).


Well, the Shaman may know four spells natively, but he can still only try to cast one per hero phase... which may very well be unbound. Also, you say you you like the Shaman for the chance to unbind "some" of your opponent's spells. You can only attempt to unbind one and if you fail to unbind, you don't get to try a second time. He just seems very inconsistent. You're spending 120 points for the chance to cast one spell (which might be unbound) and the chance to unbind one enemy spell (which might fail). It's a cool model, but not one you can rely on.

"They can attempt to cast one spell in each of your hero phases, and attempt to unbind one spell in each enemy hero phase."

Knowing multiple spells doesn't get past the one per phase allowance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/19 16:22:12


Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com


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Completed Trades With: ultraatma 
   
Made in us
Abel





Washington State

"They can attempt to cast one spell in each of your hero phases, and attempt to unbind one spell in each enemy hero phase."

This is the same restriction your opponent has as well. It's magic, and it's random, and it can do nothing, or it can be a game changer. That's how magic works in AoS. The Warchanter only works in melee combat. Otherwise, he is an inferiour brute Hero. What does he do when not in melee combat? Nothing. Once a close by unit gets into melee combat, he can do something. But it's only one unit, and during one combat phase. So during a 5 turn game, you'll get to use his ability maybe three times. Four if you are lucky with your opponent running to engage your army.

The Shaman has the chance to do something from turn one until the end of the game, and during your opponent's Hero phase as well. It's pretty easy to figure out which enemy spell you are going to attempt to unbind, and of course if your opponent's wizard is more than 18" away...

I will say the drawback to the Shaman is rolling doubles and the nearest unit taking mortal wounds (typically my Ardboys as they run together).

Two different philosophies, two different meta's. We both have valid points. I think we can also both agree that Ironjawz are the bestest greenskins around! Way better then those cowardly, stunty Arrowboys. "Oh, look at me! I'm a green skin! I use a bow and arrow! Pew pew!" Bah!

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 Tamwulf wrote:
"They can attempt to cast one spell in each of your hero phases, and attempt to unbind one spell in each enemy hero phase."

This is the same restriction your opponent has as well.

Nope. For example, a Gaunt Summoner and a Wurrgog Prophet can cast two spells while a Slann Starmaster can cast three. You need to look at the warscroll to see how many spells each Wizard can cast.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
 
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