[500] - Space Marine - First list any input please

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**charz**

HQ
Librarian Lv 2 90 pts (i think I'll take biomancy but input is needed)

Troop
Tactical Squad Plasma gun mounted in a razorback with twin linked lascannons 160 pts

Scout Squad with sniper rifles and camo cloaks. Sargent with sniper rifle 70 pts

Fast Attack
Bike Marines with 2 plasmaguns 93 pts

Assault Marines with 2 Flamers Sargent with meltabombs 85 pts

Total 498/500

**Corennus**

Welcome to Space Marines and 40 k!

Biomancy is cool as it gives you an easy AP2 shooting attack. or it even give you Eternal Warrior for your librarian if you roll well on the powers table

Troops....

Not liking the tactical squad in the razorback tbh. You're paying 15 points for a gun you can't fire until you get out. I'm assuming the LIbrarian is going with this squad so he will be firing out Smite (the AP2 Primaris Power).

Drop Plasma Gun for a Grav Gun if you MUST have anti-vehicle in the squad OR change for a flamer and melta bombs and change razorback for a Rhino.

The Scout squad is fine.

The Bike Squad could be augmented by another bike with the saving from the razorback becoming Rhino.

SO list looks like this:

Librarian
Lv 2 Psyker
Melta Bombs
95

TROOPS

Tactical Squad (5 man)
Flamer
Melta Bombs
DT: Rhino
115

Scout Squad (5 man)
Sniper Rifles
Camo Cloaks
70

FAST ATTACK

Space Marine Bike Squad (5 man)
2 Grav Guns (RELENTLESS)
135

Assault Marine Squad (5 man)
2 Flamers
Melta Bombs
85

500

Lots of Anti-Vehicle with the Grav Guns.

**xTHExCLINCHERx**

Welcome to the hobby, and Space Marines!

The above points are all valid, so I'll add a few different things here to get you thinking, rather than repeat the good advice above (grav bikes are great btw).

The reason I like Rhinos over Razorbacks is because the Razorback isn't a fast unit... and you'll be moving it to position your troops on an objective... but then snap-firing the gun most likely. It's just not worth the points. A Rhino lets you move around and fire from the hatch. I do like plasma/combi-plasma in that situation.

I don't like sniper scouts, simply because they can't move and be effective. Think of it this way... being generous in est. here...5 shots, 4 hits, 2 wounds maybe one rend.... probably saved by cover. They just don't deliver. I would take bolters, and their best piece of gear... the Land Speeder Storm (dedicated transport). For just under 100 points, you get troops that shoot like tactical marines, are much more mobile, and the potential of the LSS with a heavy flamer torching and blinding stuff from outflank is just amazing. So, for the points increase of five melta bombs over the squad you have now... it's so much more versatile.

Finally, the assault squad... they are fun, and cool, but hard to use effectively on the table. Unless you roll for some powers to protect them (maybe by joining the libby w/jump pack?) they will be tough to see as an effective unit. I also think the flamers are sort of a trap... you dont' wanna burn the weak infantry you want to assault... because you wanna stay locked in combat so you don't die to shooting... it's just really hard to use them. I would say, if you can get them into combat against something that can't really fight back, like a vehicle, then go with eviscerator and melta bomb... but otherwise they may just end up dying as a distraction.

I would consider dropping the assault marine squad, giving the librarian a bike so he can join the grav bike squad (you can then roll on the new powers to increase their survivability, or maybe to help with anti-tank, etc.), getting a LSS for the scouts with bolters and maybe filling out the tac squad to 10 man.

Not sure on the points there, but just some suggestions. Hope that helps!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, just ran the points... seems this is pretty close to what I'd recommend. I think it's worth noting here too, that all of these units are useful in larger point games.. which may be something that concerns you if you are looking to scale up without having lots of "unwanted models" lying around from the start of your collection ha!

Librarian - level 2, bike, axe
Bike Squad (3) - grav x2
Tactical Squad (10) - rhino, plasma, combi-plasma
Scout Squad (5) - bolters, land speeder storm w/heavy flamer

498/500

Or, you could actually swap the scouts out for a Thunderfire Cannon.. that would be super nasty at 500 points!
Or, cut the level 2, half the tac squad, change from plasma to melta, and include the TFC.

Just have to play with it and see.

**charz**

xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:
Welcome to the hobby, and Space Marines!

The above points are all valid, so I'll add a few different things here to get you thinking, rather than repeat the good advice above (grav bikes are great btw).

The reason I like Rhinos over Razorbacks is because the Razorback isn't a fast unit... and you'll be moving it to position your troops on an objective... but then snap-firing the gun most likely. It's just not worth the points. A Rhino lets you move around and fire from the hatch. I do like plasma/combi-plasma in that situation.

I don't like sniper scouts, simply because they can't move and be effective. Think of it this way... being generous in est. here...5 shots, 4 hits, 2 wounds maybe one rend.... probably saved by cover. They just don't deliver. I would take bolters, and their best piece of gear... the Land Speeder Storm (dedicated transport). For just under 100 points, you get troops that shoot like tactical marines, are much more mobile, and the potential of the LSS with a heavy flamer torching and blinding stuff from outflank is just amazing. So, for the points increase of five melta bombs over the squad you have now... it's so much more versatile.

Finally, the assault squad... they are fun, and cool, but hard to use effectively on the table. Unless you roll for some powers to protect them (maybe by joining the libby w/jump pack?) they will be tough to see as an effective unit. I also think the flamers are sort of a trap... you dont' wanna burn the weak infantry you want to assault... because you wanna stay locked in combat so you don't die to shooting... it's just really hard to use them. I would say, if you can get them into combat against something that can't really fight back, like a vehicle, then go with eviscerator and melta bomb... but otherwise they may just end up dying as a distraction.

I would consider dropping the assault marine squad, giving the librarian a bike so he can join the grav bike squad (you can then roll on the new powers to increase their survivability, or maybe to help with anti-tank, etc.), getting a LSS for the scouts with bolters and maybe filling out the tac squad to 10 man.

Not sure on the points there, but just some suggestions. Hope that helps!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, just ran the points... seems this is pretty close to what I'd recommend. I think it's worth noting here too, that all of these units are useful in larger point games.. which may be something that concerns you if you are looking to scale up without having lots of "unwanted models" lying around from the start of your collection ha!

Librarian - level 2, bike, axe
Bike Squad (3) - grav x2
Tactical Squad (10) - rhino, plasma, combi-plasma
Scout Squad (5) - bolters, land speeder storm w/heavy flamer

498/500

Or, you could actually swap the scouts out for a Thunderfire Cannon.. that would be super nasty at 500 points!
Or, cut the level 2, half the tac squad, change from plasma to melta, and include the TFC.

Just have to play with it and see.

Thank you for the Input. Instead of a rhino would a drop pod be a viable option?

**xTHExCLINCHERx**

I think you could/should have both so that you can switch it up as you feel. Yeah, in this list I think either are fine. I do find that unless you have multiple pods, you may get stuck in a position of disadvantage if they can deploy a certain way... but overall, in a small game, either works just fine!

**charz**

Also I realized I have no idea how to use that land speeder storm and the scouts. With their load out I'm assuming they sneak up next to a back field objective and unload/assault?

**michlintireman**

Welcome to the wonderful world of space marines!

Ditto the rhino! But I will say this: I have had a LOT of success with just one droppod. But you need a bit more to support it. I drop in a basic, ten man squad of marines(maybe a special and matching combibolter). Combat squad them. (these guys are going to die by the way) But now your opponent has 3 things (pod and 2 combat squads) that are right in his face that he has to focus on. And if he doesn't well you have marines with a foot hold in his zone. Also, I recommend the deathwind missile launcher on the pod. You can get a great big blast marker as soon as it lands. All of these things combined say :SHOOT ME! This works particularly well in games of 750-1000 points. That being said, you should have a couple of other troops units to support.

If you are planning on sticking to 500 points to start off, I would go with what everyone else has said: Rhino! It is one of the best pieces of space marine equipment. It's a measly 35 points, your guys can shoot out of the hatch, it has an immobilized repair system, it counts as troops and can secure objectives...man the list goes on.
As for the tactical marines, give your sarge a matching combibolter if you can.

The sniper scouts are cool, but I have never seen the landspeeder storm in practice. Looks pretty rad though.
The gravgun bikers are cool. For the same cost you could get 2 meltagun bikers and a combi melta on the sarge. PLUS, if you ever wanted to add an attack bike to the squad you can get one with a multi-melta. It gives you a fast tank hunting unit. I know grav works against vehicles but melta is cheaper and makes things go BOOM!

Also, the flamer assult marines are pretty cool. I would recommend a landspeeder with 2 Heavy flamers for the job. it's 35 points cheaper (that's another rhino!) and the flamers are much deadlier. Plus you can move your full 12'' and fire BOTH heavy flamers because it's a fast skimmer. It's a 50 point pest that will cook any orks, guard, nids and other model heavy armies. And if your opponent brings scouts too it'll cook them too!
Also, ditto librarian on bike. He gets Toughness 5, he is fast and he can make your bikers DEADLY!
What chapter tactics did you plan on using?

Hope this helps!

**xTHExCLINCHERx**

charz wrote:
Also I realized I have no idea how to use that land speeder storm and the scouts. With their load out I'm assuming they sneak up next to a back field objective and unload/assault?

Here's how I use the Land Speeder Storm:

1) Deepstrike - If you are bold enough, you can deepstrike the thing RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of a bunch of enemies... if you stick... it's gonna hurt... a lot... a heavy flamer, 10 bolter shots, and a large blast that blinds the remaining units (I use them in that order, BTW, since you only need to hit one remaining guy who will be furthest away with the blind shot)

2) Outflank - Most of the time, this is the way to go. You can come on to the board edges, 12" and fire. Really good tactic. Guaranteed, line-breaker, or to harass a backfield unit, etc. I'd have to check the new GW FAQs that is "pending" I guess on their facebook page, but I'm pretty sure you can still move on 12" from the edge, and fire all the weapons and bolters from the dudes inside without snapshooting.

3) Infiltrate/Scout - Not so useful, but if you have a bunch of other things, you can always put this thing in their face turn 1 with these rules. It's 10 all around though, so unless in a very specific circumstance, not the best idea. Do remember, however, that you could outflank the scouts and the transport separately... they are two separate units, albeit a dedicated trasport.

4) Jamming beacon defense - Most people forget about this, but if you are afraid that someone will alpha-strike you with pods or something, just start the speeder on the board, near your other units. If you deploy in the corner or in a safe spot with limited reachability, the jamming beacon can pretty reliably protect you from an accurate deepstrike. The risk of the increased scattering they'd entail is a nasty threat if there is a table edge or two nearby! (Also, and don't forget about this, late-game, if you are holding an objective and someone tries to deep strike a pod, terminators, crisis suits, etc. to re-take it... they could scatter waaaaay off of your position!)

For the price of one TFC minus a melta bomb, this unit has so many special rules it's just nuts!

**Backspacehacker**

Welcome good sir!

I would just throw my input in to consider taking the Laz cannon TL Plasma canon combo on the razor back, more versatile.

**charz**

xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:
charz wrote:
Also I realized I have no idea how to use that land speeder storm and the scouts. With their load out I'm assuming they sneak up next to a back field objective and unload/assault?

Here's how I use the Land Speeder Storm:

1) Deepstrike - If you are bold enough, you can deepstrike the thing RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of a bunch of enemies... if you stick... it's gonna hurt... a lot... a heavy flamer, 10 bolter shots, and a large blast that blinds the remaining units (I use them in that order, BTW, since you only need to hit one remaining guy who will be furthest away with the blind shot)

2) Outflank - Most of the time, this is the way to go. You can come on to the board edges, 12" and fire. Really good tactic. Guaranteed, line-breaker, or to harass a backfield unit, etc. I'd have to check the new GW FAQs that is "pending" I guess on their facebook page, but I'm pretty sure you can still move on 12" from the edge, and fire all the weapons and bolters from the dudes inside without snapshooting.

3) Infiltrate/Scout - Not so useful, but if you have a bunch of other things, you can always put this thing in their face turn 1 with these rules. It's 10 all around though, so unless in a very specific circumstance, not the best idea. Do remember, however, that you could outflank the scouts and the transport separately... they are two separate units, albeit a dedicated trasport.

4) Jamming beacon defense - Most people forget about this, but if you are afraid that someone will alpha-strike you with pods or something, just start the speeder on the board, near your other units. If you deploy in the corner or in a safe spot with limited reachability, the jamming beacon can pretty reliably protect you from an accurate deepstrike. The risk of the increased scattering they'd entail is a nasty threat if there is a table edge or two nearby! (Also, and don't forget about this, late-game, if you are holding an objective and someone tries to deep strike a pod, terminators, crisis suits, etc. to re-take it... they could scatter waaaaay off of your position!)

For the price of one TFC minus a melta bomb, this unit has so many special rules it's just nuts!

Last question, I think. Should I give the scouts shotguns or bolters

**Corennus**

It depends on what you've going to use them for

Scouts with boltguns now get same BS as regular space marines so they are good now. Plus you get 24" max range with Str 4 AP5..

The Shotguns give you 12" Str 4 AP- Assault 2. This means that in shooting any model you shoot at will always get an armour save, but you do pump out more rounds. And weight of fire is key in most battles.

Scouts in assault are always a bit risky due to their low numbers and worse armour save.

Personally I'd go bolters. better range, more reliable, and at 12" you can do rapid fire anyway!

**Nevelon**

charz wrote:

Last question, I think. Should I give the scouts shotguns or bolters

What Chapter Tactic you running? It can make a difference. Mostly for Imperial Fists and bolter drill, which naturally favors the bolter loadout.

Bolters in a LSS are primarily for drive by shootings. It’s open topped, so everyone shoots out.

Shotguns are the jack of all trade option. Not as shooty as bolters, not as CC as bolt pistol/CCW, but somewhere in the middle. If you do run them, I’d recommend a mix of them and CC scouts. Probably just a pair of shotguns in a 5 man squad. This squad takes advantage of the open topped nature of the LSS to assault out of it. The shotguns are front loaded damage for the close combat. They get more/better hits in before things start, but are not as good in a protracted fight. And if they manage to survive the combat, can give you some extra shooting while you camp the objective you just cleared.

**charz**

Also reading up on Jinxing, is it better to have a heavy bolter? So I can fire and jinks

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nevelon wrote:
charz wrote:

Last question, I think. Should I give the scouts shotguns or bolters

What Chapter Tactic you running? It can make a difference. Mostly for Imperial Fists and bolter drill, which naturally favors the bolter loadout.

Bolters in a LSS are primarily for drive by shootings. It’s open topped, so everyone shoots out.

Shotguns are the jack of all trade option. Not as shooty as bolters, not as CC as bolt pistol/CCW, but somewhere in the middle. If you do run them, I’d recommend a mix of them and CC scouts. Probably just a pair of shotguns in a 5 man squad. This squad takes advantage of the open topped nature of the LSS to assault out of it. The shotguns are front loaded damage for the close combat. They get more/better hits in before things start, but are not as good in a protracted fight. And if they manage to survive the combat, can give you some extra shooting while you camp the objective you just cleared.

I'm going Ultramarine.

**Nevelon**

The jinking thing is not that big a deal. On turns that you jink, you shouldn’t expect any weapon to do any damage. You might land a stray hit with the HB, but not often enough to count on.

There are pros/cons to all the weapon options.

HB is free, and can lightly harass things at range. And due to the range, can probably keep firing most of the game.

HF is also free. And is a far nastier weapon then the HB. When it’s in range, not jinking, etc. You will probably fire it less often, but get more results when you do. Getting in range is also going to commit you to the fight. Remember, the LSS can be brought down with rifle butts and harsh language. More of a high risk/high reward option, but not a bad one.

The MM and AsC you have to pay for. The LSS is a cheep and fragile platform, how much do you want to invest in it? That said, getting some extra dakka downrange is never a bad thing. And tacking an extra 10-15 points onto a 40 point hull is not exactly breaking the bank.

I run mine with the HB. This is mostly due to me being a WYSWYG guy, and that’s what’s in the kit. You might see a lot of recommendations for the HF from previous edition/older guys, back from when they were BS3. It was the stronger option then due to not needed to roll to hit. But there is no real bad answer here.

The best answer, of course, is magnets.

**charz**

After reading through the codex I think I want to go towards a battle company. Mostly for the collector/hoarder in me wanting to have a full battle company. I've updated a list going at 500 points with a focus towards just that. A question with moving forward is. Should I go for Sicarius or should I go with a generic captain. I ask for painting purposes.

HQ
Chaplain 90

Troops
5 man Tactical Squad with a melta. Sarge has a multi melta drop pod 125

5 man Tactical squad with a plasma. Sarge has a multi plas
Razorback with twin linked lascannon 170

Devastator Squad with 3 plasma cannon 115.

I plan on dropping the melta squad plus chaplain either on an objective or behind a hard target while the other squad goes midfield for an objective. The devistators camp a backfield objective.