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Made in ca
Been Around the Block




Hello all,

question does this formation allow for your units to move after the pop up any where they want? can anyone quote or show me the actual wording for this formation.

If they can move after they pop up that would be just nuts as it would be real tough dealing with that for some armies

thank you in advance.
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

"Gautfyre Skorch - Instead of setting up a Gautfyre Skorch Enginecoven on the battlefield, you can place it to one side and declare that it is constructing an elaborate network of tunnels beneath the surface. In any of your hero phases, the Enginecoven can surface under the watchful eye or its Warlock Engineer. Set up one of the Warp-grinder Weapon Teams anywhere on the battlefield, then set up each unit from the Enginecoven within 8" of it. Any unit that is set up within 3" of an enemy unit suffers D6 mortal wounds."

So, yes, you can deploy ANYWHERE during ANY hero phase with no random chance of failure. Since this happens during a hero phase and DOESN'T count as your movement for the turn, you still get to move, shoot and charge if you want. This is particularly good with Warpfire Thrower Stormfiends because they can deploy at the 3+" range, fire their weapons for an automatic 2D3 mortal wounds each and then charge into combat with an almost guaranteed chance of success.

The other two options they have for popping up outside the Battalion involve setting up at least 9" away (Warpfire Thrower range is only 8") and counts as movement for the turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, remember that you need an Arch-Warlock and at least 2x Enginecovens, so this isn't a cheap Battalion. It can't be fielded at 1000 or 1500 (I think) levels. It's more a 2000+ thing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/18 17:46:23


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Made in ca
Been Around the Block




wowzers... and here I thought gryph-hound were a counter for this.

Thanks for sharing makes me need to tinker my list a little more and I'm sure in the tourney scene this will be a normal thing to see.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What units to they need to take to make this formation work other than Arch-Warlock and at least 2x Enginecovens?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/18 17:57:27


 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

AN'SHI wrote:
wowzers... and here I thought gryph-hound were a counter for this.

Thanks for sharing makes me need to tinker my list a little more and I'm sure in the tourney scene this will be a normal thing to see.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What units to they need to take to make this formation work other than Arch-Warlock and at least 2x Enginecovens?


The "standard" 2000 point build is as follows...

Arch-Warlock
Goutfyre Skorch Enginecoven #1
- Warlock Engineer
- Warp-grinder Weapons Team
- 3x Warpfire Thrower Weapons Team
- 3x Stormfiends with Warpfire Throwers
Goutfyre Skorch Enginecoven #2
- Warlock Engineer
- Warp-grinder Weapons Team
- 3x Warpfire Thrower Weapons Team
- 6x Stormfiends with Warpfire Throwers

Deploy the Arch-Warlock on the table out of sight and then in your first hero phase, bring everything else onto the table wherever it's needed. You'll get 18D3 mortal wounds from the 9 Stormfiends and 6D6 mortal wounds from the Weapons Teams. Normally the Weapons Teams only generate D3 mortal wounds, but each has a ~95% chance to up that to D6 versus a ~5% chance of exploding. After your ridiculous number of mortal wounds, you charge in with the Stormfiends and crush further face. They're pretty solid in close combat.

Null deployment lists can result in a game of chicken where each side waits for the other to deploy. Also, properly spread out horde armies can effectively "bubble wrap" their important units, causing the Warpfire Throwers to be wasted a little.

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Made in ca
Been Around the Block




I guess the worst thing would be a double turn situation. If the scaven get a double turn is basically gg :(
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

AN'SHI wrote:
I guess the worst thing would be a double turn situation. If the scaven get a double turn is basically gg :(


It's a mean list. Stormfiends and Warpfire Weapons Teams can be nasty with their guaranteed mortal wounds attacks, but they're tempered in that you normally have to spend at least two turns out in the open getting into position (walking or warp-grinding and waiting a turn until you can move). The Battalion ability allowing them to deploy anywhere without a real downside is devastating.


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Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Gryph Hounds still exist as a hard counter since they must be more than 10" to not trigger it. Assuming the Gryphs are on the outside of a bunched up force with the actual units being 4-5" behind them it effectively means that the skaven units can either eat the free shooting when they pop up or forgo their own shooting and hope they can win it with charging and/or double turn.

But yes, Kriswall pretty much said it. Very nasty list.

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Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Gryph Hounds still exist as a hard counter since they must be more than 10" to not trigger it. Assuming the Gryphs are on the outside of a bunched up force with the actual units being 4-5" behind them it effectively means that the skaven units can either eat the free shooting when they pop up or forgo their own shooting and hope they can win it with charging and/or double turn.

But yes, Kriswall pretty much said it. Very nasty list.


Yup, Order/Stormcast Eternals have a hard counter. All other armies are more or less out of luck. I play mainly Ironjawz. If I saw someone bring this list to the table, I'd probably concede, congratulate them on their hard fought victory and go find someone who's looking to have some actual fun. I guess that's another sort of hard counter.

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Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




But even with Gryph hounds you need to invest in shooting a lot and even after those first attacks the damage will be hard, I'm not convinced it's really that hard a counter unless you are very shooty
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity





East Coast, USA

Aezeal wrote:
But even with Gryph hounds you need to invest in shooting a lot and even after those first attacks the damage will be hard, I'm not convinced it's really that hard a counter unless you are very shooty


You're also building a very specific counter list. In a tournament environment, those Gryph Hounds aren't going to help you as much against other armies you might face. That's the problem with the hard counter lists. They're great against one specific build, but not great against more generally balanced lists.

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Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Yeah, the caveat is that the hounds are only a hard counter in a certain type of order shooting list. It can be built for all-comers (quite effectively, I saw a winning tournament list that was this) but that restricts things even more. Kriswall summarized the real solution rather well:

 Kriswall wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Gryph Hounds still exist as a hard counter since they must be more than 10" to not trigger it. Assuming the Gryphs are on the outside of a bunched up force with the actual units being 4-5" behind them it effectively means that the skaven units can either eat the free shooting when they pop up or forgo their own shooting and hope they can win it with charging and/or double turn.

But yes, Kriswall pretty much said it. Very nasty list.


Yup, Order/Stormcast Eternals have a hard counter. All other armies are more or less out of luck. I play mainly Ironjawz. If I saw someone bring this list to the table, I'd probably concede, congratulate them on their hard fought victory and go find someone who's looking to have some actual fun. I guess that's another sort of hard counter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/19 17:23:42


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I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




Not sure if we aren't actually all agreeing with each other.. but my point just was that it is indeed only a counter combined with tons of shooting.. and that makes the list very specific and not very competitive in general so not a good list for a tournament. ERGO the formation is not suitable for competitive play (overpowered) with the current point costs.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard




Out of curiosity, would the Battalion be less annoying if you could only bring one Gautfyre Scorch per Clan Skyre?
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




If you can kill the Arch warlock before the rest of the army emerges from the tunnels, can the army still arrive in one of the hero phases? Or do they count as being tabled?
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Requizen wrote:
Out of curiosity, would the Battalion be less annoying if you could only bring one Gautfyre Scorch per Clan Skyre?
Well the skryre player would have less spread to deploy and have to come up all at once, but otherwise it wouldn't help. Each Goutfyre is 1 warlock engineer 1-3 stormfiend units, 1-5 warpfire throwers and 1-5 warp grinders, so it wouldn't really affect the number of models the skryre player could bring.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dolomedes wrote:
If you can kill the Arch warlock before the rest of the army emerges from the tunnels, can the army still arrive in one of the hero phases? Or do they count as being tabled?
The pitched battle scenarios override that as a victory condition, so tabling your enemy doesn't work.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/19 22:30:13


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos






 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Requizen wrote:
Out of curiosity, would the Battalion be less annoying if you could only bring one Gautfyre Scorch per Clan Skyre?
Well the skryre player would have less spread to deploy and have to come up all at once, but otherwise it wouldn't help. Each Goutfyre is 1 warlock engineer 1-3 stormfiend units, 1-5 warpfire throwers and 1-5 warp grinders, so it wouldn't really affect the number of models the skryre player could bring.


It would, however, force the player to take a different Enginecoven in order to fulfill the battalion's requirements, so it would reduce the model count that way.

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