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Hi

We have a free people (humans is maybe more correct) player that has a hard time getting on the level of the rest of the club...

He has over 17000 pts so he should be able to make something out of it , but he keeps on being tabled by almost any opponent he plays.

Any advice on lists? Of examples of power lists without going into cheese category (he will not go there) ? The only thing he does not have are the shrines/chariots and he has only 6 demygriph knights

If really necessary he can also add his stormcast eternals (he has 2x starterset) and he has bought a stardrake and celestial prime but that will take time before they are ready...

Games are played in our campaign @ 1000, 2000 and 2500

Really any help to make him more competitive is welcome.

I'd say cannons + hurrincanum + griffhound and handgunners are good.
Only knights worth taking are the grailknights (old brets) not the empire knights.

I think the base should be the free company or something which makes you take 3 infantry ,1 pistoliers and a general on foot. I'd say start with 1x 20 melee troops and 2x 20 or 30 handgunners, min sized pistoliers and the general. No idea how much points that is but then add a griffhound (or 2) a hurricanum (or 2) and as many cannons as fit (or some dwarve artillery if he has got that too).
To be honest I think most other builds are not viable though Karl Franz might be an option if you like to play with a monster. I think he's not the best around but he's certainly not the worst. The grail knights I mentioned are an option if you need or like cavalry.
If you have a lot of people playing with the newer armies AND they really min-max their army it will probably still be very hard for him though since there has been a certain amount of powercreep.

So a this would be 1000 pts:

LEADERS
Freeguild General (100)
UNITS
Freeguild Handgunners x 30 (300)
Freeguild Handgunners x 30 (300)
Freeguild Guard x 20 (160) or would you take 10 greatswords?
Freeguild Pistoliers x 5 (140)

after that add hurricanum, grifhound and artillery. I know he has a lot of artillery pieces so that will be no problem.

I will pass the information, and try to convince him to let me testplay with him an afternoon or so... ... but even easy has beaten the out of him.. and it would be to bad to see him stop...

That seems a good idea to me. I must admit I'm not a freguild player (but have played against the formation) and the stats on the other stuff is just good or at least decent.

That list is a good start, I would probably remove the Guard and Pistoliers to get some artillery, general on griffon, or hurricanum/luminark with wizard on top (of course), to bring some pain.

If you get a general on griffon, tooled up with allegiance artefact/abiliy, to attack first in the combat phase you will do alot of damage as well.

Upgraded Valten is also good for his points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Then add more battleline infantry as you go up to 2000 pts.

So...

LEADERS
Freeguild General On Griffon (300)
Freeguild General (100)
UNITS
Freeguild Handgunners x 30 (300)
Freeguild Handgunners x 30 (300)
WOUNDS:
78
TOTAL POINTS:
1000 / 1000

LEADERS
Freeguild General (100)
UNITS
Freeguild Handgunners x 30 (300)
Freeguild Handgunners x 30 (300)
WAR MACHINES
Cannon (180)
Helblaster Volley Gun (120)
WOUNDS:
73
TOTAL POINTS:
1000 / 1000

for the first 1000
then 2000

LEADERS
Freeguild General (100)
- General
Freeguild General On Griffon (300)
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (320)
UNITS
Freeguild Handgunners x 30 (300)
Freeguild Handgunners x 30 (300)
Freeguild Guard x 20 (160)
Gryph-Hound x 1 (40)
WAR MACHINES
Cannon (180)
Cannon (180)
Helblaster Volley Gun (120)
WOUNDS:
130
TOTAL POINTS:
2000 / 2000

For 2500,
add a luminark
or go for more artilery?
What would be 4th battleline choice? More shooting or a roadblock of guardsmen to help the hounds protect the artillery/ shooty stuff?

For the first 1000:

Freeguild General (100)
10 Crossbows (100)
10 Crossbows (100)
10 Crossbows (100)
30 Greatswords (480)
State Troop Detachment (120)

The Crossbowmen have a longer range and aren't as dependent on numbers as the Handgunners. The big block of Greatswords will chop through absolutely anything in combat with the buffs from the General and the State Troop Detachment.
The three ranged options are interchangeable, though. Handgunners still get pretty good with the Detachment benefits and archers get a free move to start the game off, so it's worth experimenting.

 GreenShoes wrote:
For the first 1000:



The Crossbowmen have a longer range and aren't as dependent on numbers as the Handgunners. .

Thanks for the list, I will make him try that.
Don't the crossbows get double shots in packs of 20?

Crossbows to get double shots, but it also makes the unit a very juicy target - sometimes it is well worth to take this into consideration.
Is it worth to have 20 xbows who will suffer from enemy focus and battleshock?
Several targets makes it harder for the enemy to prioritize unless you have an obvious strong piece (a steamtank for example) - but if you have several dangers, you don't need to worry as much.