Latest threads for the forum "40K Tactics"

Beating Tau

SuperMcFly — GMT

I'm playing tau this week anything I should really watch out for. I play daemons

Librarians vs tyranids

Cave_Dweller — GMT

Played a game vs tyranids recently and my assault termies were promptly decimated in cc due to the swarm lord using an ability called paroxysm or something like that which reduces your stats to 1. Ok I'm learning now in general space marines in cc isn't the best idea when facing nids.

But I do field a Libby in terminator armor to accompany my assault termies. I didn't even think of the psychic hood to counter this ability, nor do I know enough about tyranids in general to know if it will work.

So, what tyranids abilities should I look out for in the future to counter with my librarian? Also, what powers tend to be the most useful? I'm leaning towards null zone and gate.

Thanks

Cyclic Ion Blaster Vs Airbursting Fragmentation Projector

XV8-Ownage! — GMT

I would like to know which weapon is better, and what guns they go well with (Cyclic Ion Blaster and Burst Cannon?).

2000 point Pedro & Sternguard Loadouts

ARKTOR.RECLAIMUS — GMT

Good Day Dakkites!

Wondering if I can get your thoughts on a concept I dreamt up recently, involving Pedro, a handful of Sternguard, and a tentative army list.
I'll not be including points (no codex handy), and it'll just be a rough draft of the army to-be, but in any case:

Pedro rides with 5 (more if I have the points) Assault Terminators (3X Th/SS, 2X DLC) in a LRC/LRR (whichever one, to taste). This is my deathstar.

There will be two identical flanks for the army, which will either run on either side of the deathstar (for obvious reasons), or form one stronger flank. Both flanks will consist of:

10 man Tac Squad, with a Flamer, MM, and a PF for sarge, mounted up in a rhino. Working closely with the rhino/tac, will be a Vindicator, and a HF/MM LandSpeeder.

So my real question comes in here, regarding the sternguard I'd like to field, so please, take a closer walk with me:

what about 2 six-man squads of sternguard, with something like 2 combi-flamer, 2 combi-melta, 2 Lascannon, and a PF on sarge. Both squads will be mounted up in... TL-LC Razorbacks, or Las/Plas razorbacks. I know the Lascannon is a topic of debate for some, but bear with me:

The idea here is for the sternguard to ride up to the nearest objective, and basically camp.
Between the razorback and the 2X Lascannons per squad, I've got a pretty reliable long range fire support, enough to pop the occasional transport most likely, maybe drop a wound on an MC. Between the PF, the SIA combi-flamers, and SIA combi-melta's, I've got a reliable way to at least challenge any average tank, horde, or Walker-type.

So check it out, I've got an (annoying) backfield unit that should be able to lay down real, relevant long-rage fire support all game. They ARE scoring, so they hold an objective, ideally one apiece. You'd be unwilling to fluff with them, because they're pretty well kitted out, and you'd have to plow through the rest of my army first anyways, more likely than not. And I've got 2 vindi's, a LR, at least 2 HF/MM speeders for you to consider, all of which are balls-to-the-wall gunning it to get 12" from your front line... what are the odds you'll start turn 1 dumping rounds at the seemingly harmless sternguard just loitering around waaay back there?

Whatever points wind up left, if any, would get dumped into Assault Terminators and Land Speeders, whichever wound up looking better on paper.

So anyways, how do you see this application of the Sternguard working out, could this be a practical adaptation of their more conventional (typically suicidal) uses? C/C is welcomed Dakkites, and feel free to comment on the army itself as well, anything helps!

Thanks All!

Best bang for the points codex space marine units

leohart — GMT

Comparing to BA, SW, DA and BT, here are the list of units for codex space marine that is: same price or cheaper + just as good or better.

TH/SS Terminators
Predator - AC LC sponsons
Whirlwind
Vindicator

Am I missing something?
Looks like Codex Space Marine is really hosed. -_-

how to use hector rex

xv88mitch — GMT

hi i have hector rex and i tried him with a henchmen team with 4 crusaders 4 psykers and 2 daemon hosts even though he i weak for a grey knight army he is strong for an inqusiter. so i was thinking is there any way i can play him where he will kill the enemy and look great doing so?

Land Speeder Storm

leohart — GMT

I got my Land Speeder Storm done. Such a cool model but I don't know what to run them with. Currently, I am having a 5-man scout with power fist in them. The Land Speeder Storm has a Heavy Flamer.

Just that it got annihilated by Razorback LasPlas. Never see any action.

Three-way with two Imperial guard and one Tau army. How am i going to do this?

dakka farta — GMT

I'm having a three-way battle with two of my friends. I play IG and my opponents play IG and Tau, its free for all 2500 points and i'm not really sure on what to do, here is a quick overview of what think I'm going to field

-Company Command squads with snipers/HWTs
-Two platoons with forty guardsmen each, along with assorted special weapon teams,
heavy weapon teams and maybe some conscripts
-Two chimera melta vet squads
-Three Leman ruses
- Basilisk
-Valkries with Penal legionaries in them
-Sentinal detachment (3 of them)

That's at a glance, i haven't really sorted everything out and i am looking for some suggestions to improve my list. However i am not going to make it mechanized as i simply lack the amount of chimeras to do so.
Also may i point out that the platoons have a plethora of HWT and are supported heavily by HB, ML and auto cannon teams. By the way the style i play i mainly gunline, i set up my infantry platoons in static positions and send my vets
in chimeras and Valks to get the objectives while the enemy is bombarded by the LRBTs

My Tau opponent has a mechanised army with lots of fire warriors in devilfishes. He also rely's heavily on hammerhead support and in addition has farsight with a very large retinue of bodyguards. The rest of his army are small vehicles like
pirhanas etc. The Ig guy has a gun line force, but with few HWT and more tanks.

So, i look forward to some advice from the dakka community and comments and advice on how to help me improve my game, and my list.

Thanks! :)

Blood Angels Librarian Psychic Powers

thestormlord — GMT

I recently got a Blood Angels Terminator Librarian. What psychic powers should i give him?

Necron Immortals vs Warriors

Exalted Pariah — GMT

Greetings fellow fiends of Dakka, I require your aid.

As a (relativly) newcomer to wh40k tabeltop and as a college student with limited funds I find myself at an important juncture for my army construction.

My army currently only has 24Xwarriors as its tropp choice and I was wonderng before making another purchase, whether Immortals or Warriors would be better in numbers?

I know that warriors are cheaper(in pts and cash) and their added numbers help in survivability(until they get in CC and swept)
But immortals have stronger weapons and varity in the form of tesla and gauss blasters and with the Traveller can receive a free upgrade too

So which is the better troop choice? Is there some golden ratio like a squad of 10xImmortals and 2 squads of 12xwarriors?

P.S. Which of the immortals weapons looke cooler/easier to assemble, Tesla or gauss?

Baneblade or Shadowsword

undead flesh addict — GMT

I recently found both of these tanks cheap and unassembled and am having trouble to decide which one would be better to buy.

I can only afford one and would like peoples opinions and experience, how would you use it in apoc and play around it with infantry guard.

your help would be appreciated

Deep striking Dark Eldar

lost_soul — GMT

Have any of you seen anyone deepstrike their raiders.

Deathwing V IG help

azgrim — GMT

I have been running deathwing for the last few months and find i am having a hard time dealing with Mech IG. My current set up is 5 cyclone squads with 3 speeders or 2 speeders and bikes depending on points.I have tried sitting back and firing 16 missiles staying out of range of melta a plasma as best as possible.This worked ok but my missles have a 50% hit chance and about 50 % chance of glanceing with an about 100% chance of rolling 2's on the damage chart.I have also tried dropping terminators right in front of the enemy hoping to CC multiple tanks at once.But I end up getting blown to bits before i can do so.

how can i better my odds against IG?

Tau possible without suits?

ÆΞØИ — GMT

I have being told by numerous Tau players that without using any suit and their variants, i shouldn't bother with Tau

Can anyone help me with a viable list and its tactics? Commander in crisis suit is an exception Im willing to make for HQ.

DoA lists

Tiarna Fuilteach — GMT

As a change from my gk I have decided to start a Descent of Angels list. What units go into it besides assault squads? Is it just them and characters or is there sanguinary guard? Or vanguard veterans? Any help at all would be great thanks

Looking for Help, Doubles Tourney

Subsidian — GMT

Hello,

In about a month or so there is going to be a doubles tournament at my local store and my wife has decided she wants to participate in the hobby with me instead of sitting on her laptop bored as im painting away.

The Tourney is 3000 Points, 1500 Each.

we need a little help picking an army for her.

im Running Sisters of Battle with usual jacobs+DCA, Celestine, Dominions,rets,exos and standard sisters we need a little help picking an army for her.

her one thing is she doesnt want alot of tanks to Transport since she only has a smaller battlefoam bag.

Thoughts on this FW unit? (Renegade Marauders)

spiralingcadaver — GMT

[b]First, a description for those who aren't familiar:[/b]

Same stats as IG veterans, except WS/BS swapped and sgt has 2 wounds and WS/BS 4.

Elites choice.

55/5, 10/1 for additional

Instead of buying doctrines, they come with them but cost more (pick one):
-grenadiers
-furious charge/scout
-acute senses, move through cover, stealth

They have most of the same options, for the same cost except:
-no plasma guns
-no heavy weapons
-the SGT can take a demo charge at 25 and meltabombs at 5
-up to 2 brutes (same stats as Ogryn, except S/T 4 and no guns) for 30 points, which do benefit from the doctrines.

They can get a chimera or an arvus (but the arvus is too expensive in points and real world cash for me to consider right now).

[b]So, the meat of the question, now that I've described them: [/b]

1- are they worth it, in your opinion?
2- how would you kit them out?
(I was thinking carapace armor, shotguns, ogryns, demo charge, chimera, but that starts to get pricey...

Thanks in advance for any comments...

GK Vs Tervigon spam

Norwulf — GMT

So Im playing Grey Knights, something similar to Blackmoor's pally list. and I keep getting rocked by tervigon spam. Is there anything i can do besides using purifiers?

Space Orks VS Chaos and Tyranids Annihilation 3000 points

OrksDon'tDie98 — GMT

Currently issued a battle against my brother and his friends. We are using only 1 force organisation chart. Any good tactics to deal with both? Currently got space Orks 2000 points. Once I get another 1000 points I can do battle, but I need to know a good tactic to fight against such a combined army. :question:

space marine command squad viability in a vulkan list

warhawkstriker — GMT

as I was reading through my codex, I noticed that a command squad does not have to be attacked to the captain that unlocks them, which led me to think about how I could incorperate that with my salamander army, mostly because I love the models, and the idea of a feel no pain vulkan is a little scary. What really determines if I follow through is whether or not they are viable.
What are your guys' thoughts on command squads?

Grotesque Broken

lost_soul — GMT

Has anyone else noticed how awesome dark eldar grotesques are? If you take a squad of ten of them thats 30 wounds and 30 S5 attacks without upgrades. Thats insane.

Observations I made during my games with necrons

CthuluIsSpy — GMT

Now, this isn't a battle report per se. This is just a bunch of notes and observations I made during several games with necrons.
Feel free to look through and use this to help you make your own tactics and lists. All games were played with vassal, so YMMV.

This is the 1500pt list I used

HQ

D. Lord
mindshackle
total - 145

Elite

5 deathmarks

Stalker

Stalker

Troops

10 warriors
Ghost Ark
Total - 245

10 warriors
Ghost Ark
total - 245

Fast

4 wraiths
2 Whip Coils
total - 160

9 scarabs

Heavy Support

Doom Ark

EDIT - Removed points values to stop GW's lawyers from crying.

here is the win/loss/draw tally

L : 1
W : 3
D : 0

First Game DE

- Dawn of War, take and hold

-Venom spam list with that baron guy and some 15 hellions and 3 ravengers with DL. Venoms had warriors and trueborn with blasters

-Terrible against DE

poison + Long ranged AT

Scarabs did nothing

Ghost arks did poorly

:Gunboat tactic did not
work
-Lost horribly

[u]Second Game SM - Annilation, pitched battle[/u]
- Marine Player fielding 3 vindicators, a master of the forge with conversion beamer, and razorbacks with tac squads.

- D.Ark still did nothing. Failed to damage razorback first turn. Stunned same 2nd killed 2 marines 3rd. Got stunned 4th.

- Stalker with heat ray devasting at short range

- Heat Stalker + Scarabs = Good Anti Dpod defense

- Best to have 2 stalkers. One got paperweighted 1st turn

- Wraiths + D.Lord and warscyth = Good tank buster

- Anti tank is lacking in this list overall. Only AT is CC

- DM = Great distraction. Killed 2 servitors, and forced opponent to charge them with tac marines. Held until turn 4 before swept

- Ghost Arks very useful. Resisted attacks and got warriors close enough to do damage

- Scarabs ate razorback, dpod and dreadnaught

- victory to crons

[u]Third Game BT -Capture, Dawn of War deployment[/u]

-Black Templar player fielded a Land raider with auto cannon and sponsor multi meltas which had 15 crusaders + emperor champion, 2 land speeders with typhoon launchers and heavy bolters, 2 predators with autocannon and heavy bolter sponsors, and 2 lazorbacks each with 5 crusaders. I forgot the exact details, but it was something like that.

- Placing a Ghost next to a multi melta is not a good idea, apparently

- Fire the Stalker first, THEN Shoot everything else at the landraider

- Doomsday ark failed to do anything on turn 2, missing the land raider. Amusingly enough, one hit from a warrior (yes, 30 shots;20 from the warriors and 10 from the
GA behind scored only 1 glance) managed to immobilise the Land Raider.

- Doomsday finally did something turn 3 and killed 11 crusaders

- Deathmarks somehow landed behind enemy lines without scatter, and killed a 5 man infantry squad with rending and HfH. Squad was in RF range. This shows deathmarks are
absurdly powerful at times.

-Sadly, the opponent had to leave so game finished at turn 3. Good thing too, because his emp champ killed a stalker that lost its QS >.< Can't determine outcome.
I did have 1 objective and he had none though, I guess that's a win.

[u]Fourth Game Eldar - Mission was Annilation, deployment was pitched battle[/u]

-Eldar player had 2 falcons with pulse lasers and 5 man fire dragon squads, 1 squad of pathfinders, 2 squads of guardians with starcannons, 1 farseer, Eldrad, a wave serpent and 10 banshees

-First turn Stalker 1 blew up a falcon with a lucky heat ray hit at long range. The falcon had 5
fire dragons, 2 of them died in the explosion

-Wraiths and Lord destroy a pathfinder squad, that the opponent decided to infiltrate in the middle
of the field for some reason. Lord takes a wound from dangerous terrain.

-deathmarks fail to mishap again. 3rd time lucky!

-doomsday manages to rip a pulse laser off a falcon

Turn 2
-wraiths ran down a guardian squad

-Scarabs ate a wave serpent

-doomsday failed to hit the firedragons who were in the falcon that was blown up

Turn 3
-Lord killed 3 shining spears, and shut another one down with mindshackle.
Wraiths finished the rest of them off

-scarabs killed by the banshees who were in the wave serpent

-One stalker was blown up by the last 2 fire dragons on the board, who managed to get into melta.

-Doomsday killed 1 firedragon

-1 squad of warriors wiped out by banshees, who charged them after killing the scarabs (in my turn)

Turn 4

-Doomsday failed to hit the last two firedragons on the field

-the second ghost ark (the one that still has warriors in it), whittled the banshees down to 3 models.
(2 banshees + eldrad) moving 6" and blasting them at point blank range with 10 warriors + array is
quite devastating, it seems

-Destroyer lord charged farseer and guardians, farseer died. wraiths charged banshees, and tried to
kill eldrad. They failed, and were reduced to 1 model.

Turn 5

-Last stalker killed last firedragon. his brother has been avengened!

-Doomsday is forever alone. Nothing to shoot

-d.lord charges eldrad and the 2 banshees. mindshackled one of the banshees, who killed the other
one, and killed eldrad. Last banshee flees
-necrons win 11-3

What is the Best Leman Russ and Chimera Formation?

Bombastic — GMT

Is it better to run your Leman Russes in front with Chimeras behind and an Infantry Blob bubble wrapping the whole thing or to run the Chimeras in front with Russes behind (spaces so that you still get a clear LOS for the turret and hull weapon) and the infantry blob in a horseshoe formation to protect the Lemans side and rear armor from assaults?

While the Leman Russ AV is superior, the Chimera is 1/3 the price of a LRBT and thus much more expendable. I'm also thinking that by keeping the Chimeras in front you'll be able to get a Cover Save due to the Russes being 50% obscured by the Chimeras.

how to beat genestealer swarm with SM?

phoenix darkus — GMT

First time posting on dakka.com, bear with me. Let me know if this needs to be in a different topic.
My buddy runs this:

Swarmlord with 3 guards.
Tyranofex with cannon.
2 zoans in a pod
1 doom in a pod

4 squads of 10 genestealers with a broodlord in each squad.

He'll use the 'fex to pop vehicles, probably keep the lord in cover until the genes have soften up the meat for him. He'll probably keep the genes in reserve and try to outflank (he gets the +1 reserve roll and reroll the outflank), he also won't hesitate to infiltrate them if he gets first turn. He'll pod the zoans in range of the vehicles to try and pop them, and the doom in the middle of troops to suck lives away.

I tend to struggle against nyds in general but I know I'll have difficulties with that swarm. I've had some success with a Kantor/hammer-termies in LR and Lysander/sternguards in pod before. Wanna try something different this time, something still tournament-worthy but more shooty (to deal with swarms).

My list:

Kantor, with hammer-termies in LR, full steam ahead towards 'fex
Sternguards in pod to drop near Lord and try to inflict as many wounds as possible 1st turn
Dread with plasma cannon and heavy flamer for some fire support
3 5-man tactical squads each in a razorback (2 TL las, 1 TL Assault cannon), the reasoning behind this is to keep the troops inside to avoid being wounded by the Doom, the razorbacks will start shooting at the Lord.
3 attack bikes with HBs to shoot and stay away from the genes
3 Land Speeders (squad of 2 with HBs and 1 assault cannon, 1 by itself with HB and Typhoon launcher)
1 vindicator

I'll try to create somewhat of a gun line with the razorbacks and vindicator, hopefully get some cover. The fast attack units will try to harrass the genes as much as possible.

Any comments/feedback are appreciated as well as other good builds.
Thanks.

Things to keep in mind when fighting....

shamroll — GMT

So yesterday I had an enlightening experience. I was playing a small 1000 point game and using Shrike, full assault squad, scout snipers, and a tactical + rhino. My opponent was running with dark eldar. I didn't think anything of it until I tried to assault his HQ+ honor guard equivalent where I found out that they all had power weapons and initiative 7. Predictably I got destroyed and it was down hill from there. After I talked will a couple people and they all said they deal with eldar from range. As a newer player I was unaware of this so I was wondering what was other things to keep in mind, or specific tactics to deal with certain armies?

example: Eldar have high initiative so avoid assault conflicts since they will most likely go first.

Daemons Vs Grey knights

faheykeyes — GMT

Ok, so what should i use against one of my mates Grey Knights
He uses Drago and paladins in a SR as his main uni,but the thing is this is his 9 or 10 battle ever, so he is not the best player.
I was thinking herald/soul grinder/dp tzeetch style to take out the sr, then flamers to kill whats inside.
bloodletters eat termi armor, but they might have an invuln save, and they will send me back to the brass citadel faster than (insert end of clever khorny metaphor here)
horrors- I have seen a squad of 10 assault termies survive my 60 warpfire shots. with only one dying. so ima stay away from these
fiends- RENDING RENDING RENDING. and they are fiends. so yeah
flamers- eat armor, but kinda squishy and expensive
thoughts?

Through the Fire and Flames - A Salamander's Tactica

Zambro — GMT

Howdy Folks

I have seen many a thread regarding how to play salamanders lists effictively and what units to use etc, but i have only seen them arise every now and then and only with certain units in mind. After gathering and using most of the information i have seen, i decided to colate it into one thread, which hopefully points out useful tips, tricks and tactics.

Firstly, its good to mention i will be using the Vanilla Marines Codex. Bit of a no-brainer, but just making sure everyone knows :P I will leave some units out, when i come to analysing each, some will be unappropriate for a Salamanders list (e.g. Marneus). Things will be mentioned as if using a 1500 point list.

Secondly, If there is anything i have missed, or said wrong, or you have a different idea of the unit, just say. If i thing its worthy of use, i will include it here and referance who ever suggested it.

So, without further ado, here is the HQs:
[spoiler]
Vulkan. After all, it is a salamanders list. At 190 points, your getting alot. A Master Crafted Relic Blade (re-roll hits, S6, power weapon), a Twin Linked Heavy Flamer, 2+ armour save and 3+ invuln. Not to mention his ability to make all Flamer, melta, thnuderhammer weapons re-roll their hits. As for his stat line, 6 5 4 4 3 5 3 10 2+, its actually rather awesome. 3 attacks, base, with WS 6 (3+ with re-rolls - against MEQ) and S6 relic blade (2+ ignoring armour saves to wound - against MEQ). Your killing 2 out of 3 almost every time. In return, MEQs attack Vulkan, they got a 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound. Thats not great, from Vulkans POV, but his 2+ armour save will almost always protect you, and 3++ for that occassional power weapon you might encounter. Now, in a vulkan army, you should be running a suitable amount of Flamer / Melta / Hammer. Although some people will dispute this, i would say, be sure to include 2, maybe 3 longer ranged weapons. Whether thats ML or Lascannons, thats your choice, but pimping out all of your units with Flamer / Melta / Hammer will seriously cripple your ranged capabilities. Those few ML / Lascannons will enable you to get a little head start on tank busting in turn 1 & 2, where most of your melta will be out of range. My advice for taking these ML and LC is, do it cheaply. There is no point spending x amount of points a Dev Squad full of Lascannons, because that is overkill for a Vulkan army, a ML in a tactical squad (then combat squad it) will suffice, they are free ML and take out one of your Troop Choices. Thats Vulkan for you, in a nut shell. He IS pricey, so only 1500 point and up should consider him, although in smaller armys his is fun, but points become a harder squeeze.

Space Marine Librarians are the next best thing. If your taking a Librarian with Vulkan, or as your sole HQ, they are definatly worth it. In terms of upgrades, TDA is a must. The lack of an Invuln will be devastating. Also, it makes good company for TH/SS termies in a LR. I wouldn't worry too much about a gun, after all you have your psychic powers to be shooting. But a storm shield could be handy. It would definately make your librarian harder to kill. I would advise a SS only if the Librarian is travelling alone. If he is in a group of TH/SS termies, then you can do a little wound allocation off of your librarian, should they be unfortunate enough to get a melta to the face. Epistolary upgrade should only be taken with certain Psychic Powers. If you have two shooting powers, there is no point because you can only shoot one per turn, but if you have GoI/ The Avenger (for example) it can become handy. GoI in the movement phase and The Avenger in the shooting phase. As for what Psychic Powers, its a very personal choice. Smite is good against MEQ because of its AP2, but it has strength 4, so its a bit meh against tougher armies. Force Dome, well, its great if you have a Librarian without Terminator Armour, in a non-terminator unit, but other than that, not necessary. Machine Curse is a great ability, an automatic glancing hit. That would really slow down your opponent. However, it is, after all a glancing hit, and there are other more useful abilities out there. The Avenger is great. Its template, so, if there is a unit perfectly aligned to be covered by a template, the S5 and AP3 will take them out. This combined with GoI, will allow you the mobility to get into place for the template drop. I always laugh when i read the rules for Quickening, because when i initially read it, i assumed it applied to the unit too. Thinking this, i wanted it for a TH/SS terminator unit. Having realised the mistake, i face-palmed :(. Quickening is just one of those abilities you should just skip over. Null Zone is great! re-roll successful enemy invuln saves, YES PLEASE! Might of the Ancients isn't that great, S6 means you can only glance av12, and whats the chance of catching up with vehicle av11 and below? no real need for this ability. GoI is great if you cant afford a transport for your terminators, you can use that to get them around. Vortex of Doom is great on paper, but not necessarily in practise. 12" isn't a great range, especially as it can scatter back on you and ID you. There are other better choices.

As for the HQ choices, i only really have experiance with those two. If you want to take something else, go for it. But if your not going to take Vulkan, can i ask why your reading a Salamander's tactica? :P
[/spoiler]

Tactics are long and tiresome to explain, but if your still with me, we are on to troops :)
[spoiler]
The basic troop choice for 1500 should be Tactical Squads, of ten men. A basic 10 man squad should get you to 170 points. Whats great about tactical squads in a Vulkan list is that the flamer and MM are free upgrades for the squad (providing you have 10 men). Remember when i was discussing range in the Vulkan entry? Here is a great place to pick up a Missile Launcher. Its free and you can combat squad so the other half of the squad isnt wasted. If your taking the Flamer and MM load out, your transport choice should be Rhino. 10 men can sit inside and shoot out. Thus providing plenty of protection for the men. Giving the 24" range of the MM, you will need to be fairly mobile, a tank can offer both protection and additional movement. However, if your taking the Flamer and ML load out, there is no need for a 10 man transport, a RB with Heavy Bolter will suffice. the Flamer half can ride in the RB while the ML half can sit in cove on a objective and provide that crucial ranged support. In terms of the Sergeant, your going to want something useful on him, in terms of CC. Power Weapons are great, in that they give no armour saves and are relatively cheap. But Power Fists are great, they give that added bonus of S8 to really give your squad a kick. As for a weapon, a bolter will be sufficient in the Flamer + MM load out, as what ever armour that will come your way will be dealt with by the MM from the rhino. But in the Flamer + ML squad, the flamer combat squad in a HB RB will not be able to deal with tanks well, so a combi melta could be worth it just in case you run into a tank. One shot might not be worth it, but with the increased reliability of Vulkans re-rolls, its looking a pretty attractive choice.
At 1500 points, you should be looking at 2 Tactical Squads of either of those two stated load outs. If you get one each, the squad in the rhino with MM can sit on an objective and repell any tanks entering into your 24" bubble. and the other load out is more 'assaulty' in terms of weapons and load out.

Scouts at 1500 points aren't really worth it. I only take scouts in smaller games to save on points, but if you want to take them, here is some general advice. If your taking Sniper Rifles, use camo cloaks too. If not, then, each should have Bolter + CCW. so when combat inevitable comes, they get the advantage of +1 close combat weapon. On the sergearnt, Combi Melta is worth it for tanks. Scouts aren't really that high on the enemy priority list, so with a bit of skill + luck, you can get relativly close to a tank. Power fist is good for CC, but if your taking scouts to save points, then 25 points on a weapon in a squad that WILL die is stupid.
IF you are taking scouts for point saving purposes, Sniper Rifles and camo cloaks are the best option
[/spoiler]

So far we have covered HQ and troops, at 1500 points, you should be looking to take 1 Solid HQ and 2 all round good troops with transport.

Now Elites, at 1500 points, 1 Elite unit is a must and an optional one if points allow.
[spoiler]
Terminators squads should be ignored. 200 points + better guns, not really worth it in a Vulkan List.
Terminator Assault Squads are a must. 200 points for 5 TH/SS beasts? feth yea! Now with vulkans reroll hits on THs, its going to bring most enemies to their knees. You should definately consider a land raider for these bad boys (More on LR laters). If your taking the Terminator Assault Squad with its mandatory (well, not mandatory but highly advised) LR, they should be your only elite choice. You just dont have the points to fork out on any more. But, they will be really hard to shift. 10 S8 attacks (albeit I1) ignoring armour saves is going to rip a hole anywhere. And with their 2+ and 3++ saves, they are gonna keep swinging.

Sternguard Veteran Squads, my personal faviourate in the Vanilla Codex. As for their weapon upgrades, none! All should remain bolter / combi weapon. You are paying those extra points for their specialised ammo, and taking a flamer is just stupid. So, combi weapons are great to get around their lack of specialised fire power. Combi-melta or -flamer should be your choices, as both have rerolls with vulkans ability. And, at 5 points per combi-weapon, giving a squad of 5 meltas gives you 5 melta shots for 25 points. awesome! As for close combat weapons, i wouldn't bother. If your using your sternguard right, you shouldn't be hitting combat with any enemies. And if you do, you should have blown them away enough that your base line attacks are sufficient to get through the remaining enemies. Now, sternguard out in the open are a going to get killed, no question. So a transport is highly advised. Although a drop pod can take them where needed first turn, and allow 5 combi melta shots into a LR on first turn is devastating. A drop pod will then leave them unprotected for the rest of the game. I would advise a rhino (over a razorback and as a personal prefence above the drop pod) as they are 35 points, not too expensive, and allow you to shoot out. 185 points for a sternguard vet squad using the advised load out. 150 for the 5 vets + combi weapons, and 35 for the rhino. Cheaper than the terminators and have better ranged capabilities.

Dreadnoughts. So many choices! Venerable, normal or Iron Clad? Want anti-tank? Iron Clad, is your best bet. Built in melta gun, and siesmic hammer / chainfist. They are great. Expect for their delivery method. Drop pod, takes them to the front line on turn 1, but they cant assault and make the most of their CCWs. Run them to the tanks? they will get shot to bits. What about a normal dreadnought? well lets see, 105 points for a MM, and a DCCW. Reasonable. combined armour of 34. Reasonable. Super effective at shooting after leaving a drop pod. Great. 140 points for delivering a Multi Melta to the front lines, with av 12 on front and side (relativly tough), and a reroll to hit with the MM. Thats great. If however, your looking to take my advice regarding ranged attack (see vulkans entry) then a Dreadnough is great for this too! You can give it a ML for +10 and a TWLC for +30 (yeah, the LC is expensive, but you could even go with Autocannon for your point saving) and allow it to stay back and cover your army as they move into the 24" range of MMs. Venerable dreadnoughts aren't really good for their points. Yes they are more or less the same as vanilla dreadnoughs, but if you ask the opponent to reroll the result of a damage vehicle, you might even blow your self up. not good.
I would definately say Normal Dreadnoughts if you chose to use one. Load out is your choice, but in the past when i have used them, i have always opted for a ranged dreadnought.

I will discuss Techmarines in the TFC entry a little later on.
[/spoiler]
There you have it, the most appropriate Elite choices for a Salamanders army. Personally, i think at 1500 points, and with Vulkan, it should always be TH/SS termies.

Now Fast Attacks
[spoiler]
Assault Squads, pfft. With the same stat line as a Tactical Marine, but for more points, they are not worth it. Not only can they not be transported (and so risk being shot up), they cant assault out of their deep strike either, meaning they will be shot up instead. I'd advise against these.

Vanguard Veterans: Here comes the fun! (for a hell of a big cost). I have used them in a group of 5, i have a Relic Blade, 2 LCs and 1 Power Weapon, all with Jump Packs. When i used them, they wiped out a squad on the turn of deep striking. But believe me, once your oponent truely sees how bad ass the unit is, they will be put on the top of the list to be killed. They are definately expensive, no doubt about it. But should you find room for them in your army, go wild. whats the point of 175 points for a 5 man squad that can assault out of deep strike if your not going to bring awesome CCWs? However, only use in a friendly game. They will kill a few units, but will cripple your list point wise.

Land Speeders, in a Vulkan list? I know, i know, its not 'fluffy'. But its AWESOME! They can take a Heavy Flamer and a MM for 70 points! Take as many as you feel you need. They are awesome. I have 2 in each army list i make. But the golden rule is: Never make them a squadron. 2 Seperate speeders EACH TIME. in a squadron, rolls of 4+ on the vehicle damage chart destroy them, so no squadrons. Although they can Deep Strike in, and MM what ever tanks are near, i find them better to move flat out, getting the cover save and then MM tanks. Land Speeders with the HF + MM loadout are a MUST. 2 Atleast, 3 completely fills your FA slot, but 2 is effective. When using them on the table, keep them near each other. No point in one on the left side of the table and the other on the right. Both must be at the same place to back each other up.
Remember, 2 MM + HF Land Speeders!

Im going to skip the Bike squad, Scout bike squad and the LSS. They dont bring anything major to the Vulkan List.

But attack bike Squads do! 50 points for a highly mobile MM, with T5 and 2 wounds? TAKE IT! Not to mention you can have 3 attack bikes in each squad, meaning 3 MM shots, 3 TL bolter shots, T5, 6 attacks in CC and a huge movement. You are stupid not to consider them! They can blast up the table, getting cover saves from moving flat out, and will reck every tank it meets. And for 150 points. They are the cheapest MM you will get! So make use of them!

To sum up Fast Attack, the idea Fast Attack shout look something like this: Land Speeder w/ MM + HF, Land Speeder w/ MM + HF, Attack bike Squad (3men) w/ MM. for a grand total of 290 points. 5 highly mobile MMs. Just what a Vulkan list needs.
[/spoiler]

Now, that all important Heavy Support.
[spoiler]
Devastator Squads aren't really worth it. There are much better things open to choose from in the HS section than these. Unless they are able to split fire (*gives evil stare to Space Wolves*) they should be ignored.

Thundefire Cannons. Well. One word really. AWESOME! 4 Blast markers each turn, with 60" range and S6... for 100 points!!! Now i said i would discuss the techmarine here too. Well, a techmarine with a Servo-harness costs 75 points. you get one with a TFC for 100 points total (meaning the cannon costs 25 points!!!). Although you can chose to shoot with the cannon OR techmarine, you still have bolster defences and the other abilities to use when the cannon gets destroyed. At 1500 points, a TFC is definately advised. Its cheap, can deal with massed infantry really, really well and destroy the occassional light tank (av 10 or 11). One for the list here boys!

Ahh, the humble LR, but which one? Lascannons, Hurricane Bolters or Flamers? well. Its up to you to decide. The LRR doesn't benifit from Vulkan's special Ability, so no obligation there. The only thing that benifits from Vulkans ability is the optional MM to put on the top. Remember when i was talking about having 2 or 3 ranged weapons in the army, so you dont totally rely on MM in Close range. What about the LC on the vanilla LR? you can always shoot 1 wep due to POTMS, so they can blast away as your moving up to drop off your termies. LRC are also good, TLAC and hurricane bolters are putting out alot of shots, not to mention 16 transport capacity. But the redeemer is more fluffy? and anyway, if your up in their face, there is going to be plenty to flame, regardless of lack of rerolls. Personally i run the LRC, what which land raider is up to you, i will however, suggest a MM for the top, in all cases.

Predators are great for taking that long ranged slot that is so desperately needed in the Vulkan lists. Keep the autocannon, making it useful against elite infantry and light tanks, but adding the las sponsons. 120 for 2 Lascannons and an Autocannon. That gives you a nice fire base. But again, they dont fully mesh with a Vulkan list (lack of meltas cause this). If you want to stick with the vulkan list, then over look the predators.

Whirlwinds are cheap, but not that great.

Vindicators are great, S10 Ap1 pie plates, who could ask for better? But they attract alot of fire power, and are only good in twos. If running vulkan, avoid and take something more firey.
[/spoiler]

So there you have it, 2 hours and 3 thousand words later, you have my Tactics for a Salamanders list. Most of this is constructed from personal experiance, so what you might think will often be different to what i have said. And, this is by no means a list of 'How to play with Salamanders'. Just friendly advice, if you disagree with something fine, leave it out, but if you never though of something i have addressed, great! you learn something knew every day.

Remember, back at the top of the thread, i said if there are any changes, reccomendations or what ever else that should be altered, just let me know and i'll change it if i see fit.
Thanks for taking the time to read :)
And good luck with your Salamanders lists in the future!

Orks tactica

anton — GMT

I need a bit of help.... I have to option of 12 more deffcoptas or a battle wagon.
I play frequently against Grey knights and imperial guard what do you suggest?

Varguard Obyron

Kunjax96 — GMT

Hi dakka. Just wondering what you guys/girls think of Varguard obyron. I was thinking of using him in a squad of 5 lychguard, with 2 lords and Trazyn the infinite in there as well (just in case I run into hordes). And yes the Nemesor is in the army as well.

How to deal with Orks as CSM

Mr. Voidness — GMT

Hello,

So, my more experienced friend runs mechanized orks, usually the list includes 2 BW with burnaz + mek in one and 9 nobs and warboss in second. Even if I manage to blow nobs battle wagon early, they still are tough nut to crack. My berserkers are not very efficient against them and the only other dedicated CC unit I use are princes. Last game this deathstar killed my chosen + berserkers, moved on to obliterators and last 3 managed to kill defiler :( So, I got advice that I should bring power weapons and Slaanesh Lord with daemon weapon. Lord for insta killing and power weapons for FnP avoidance.

I`m thinking about squad of chosen with LC / power weapons joined by term or not term lord either with dual LC or daemon weapon. Problem is I like my chosen as dedicated can opener (3-4 meltas and 1-2 flamers, rhino 5 man squad) and the second problem is how to deliver this unit? LR is expensive and rhinos are risky. Also how should I deal with this death star in all comers list?

Dark Eldar GroundPounding

Dracofactory — GMT

Upon the starting of our local warring campaign, I find myself in a quandary of what to do with my Dark Eldar Force. While the forces of decadence and destruction need little help to get to the killing, I have noticed a slight problem with my list setup; I have far more troops than I know what to do with. Upon the 'acquisition' of some of the lesser cabals after seeing the simply dreadful conditions of unuse in my opposing Lords' care, I find myself with far bodies than I have craft to shuttle them. In fact, one might make the argument that I have myself been slightly less than responsible with my newer toys, instead sampling some of the simply stellar jets and pain engines available to one such as myself. As a result, i find myself slightly - And only as slight as a heart's murmur, I should note - Frozen with the indecision of what to do with the lesser elves.
While I have no doubt that my kinsmen will not find it difficult to rend the flesh of the lesser races when given the chance, I am unsure of the proper tactics with a force that has grown too large to simply ferry across a bloody battlefield in our miraculous boats of the sky. Should they stand in large numbers, firing their superior Blacklight and poison while taking the titillating sensation of danger when our enemies include the clunky, imprecise blasts of the Mon Keigh? Or should I promote those worthy into Trueborn and send them ahead of the rest in my two ships with support from many of the lesser ranks, ahead of the monstrous Wracks of my Homunculi? I already have readied a Venom for my current use, yet I hear of larger cabals using many, many more than my one and refusing to use less in the dangers of scratching their paint jobs untowardly.
With support from my larger constructions, Talos and Chronos both from the warp and the mighy Razorwing waiting in the shadows for it's chances to strike, I imagine that it would be possible to then swoop in with Jetbike and Scourge upon the harried enemy. As for Incubi, I have attracted the attention of none, and it seems that my Witches have been something more than territorial with their similar brethren (Aah, the dangers of being too well loved by your servants). In addition, there is little enough in the coffers for the copious amounts of stimulants and mental aid used by my little problems, let alone a shiny new fleet of sexy, bladed, and dangerous craft (*sigh*).

What solutions can the attendant knowledge base represented by my fellows here offer? I eagerly await your response.

~Sincerely, the Archon, Master of the Blade and forever favored by the whimsies of Death.

Fliers in 40k

Twoshoesvans — GMT

In an effort to expand my ork army without spending any money i am considering converting some old model into a fighter. But my question is how do you use air craft effectively in 40k? My concerns are...

1) Fragility! Even though it requires a 6 to hit, with a 4+ cover save, a space marine squad with bolters looks like a daunting obstacle.
2) What do you do when the rockets are gone? Can 2 TL big shootas have any effect on a game?

Thanks in advance

Max

what's the better daemon shooting option?

sudojoe — GMT

Doing a 1500 fatecrusher list but trying to round out a bit of the list so it's got some anti-tank/shooting options. (ya, I know it's not optimal at 1500 but I'm doing it for fluff anyway :P)

Debating between -

2x heralds on chariots with legion+master of sorc + bolt (and some extra troop bodies)

vs

lord of change (legion+mastery)

vs

2x shooty daemon princes with mark/gaze/bolt

or just a bunch of horror bodies?

Gray Knight Psyker abilities against Gaurd

Castitas — GMT

I'm a guard player, possible going up against a GK player who uses a lot of psykic abilities.
I am unfamiliar with the GK abilities, and am not sure what to fear with their warp attacks.

I don't really fear augment (I buffs or S buffs) abilities, as guard never plan on combat being their mojo anyways. So what else is out there that a guards player should fear?
and for reference i do run a mix, a little of this, a little of that. Its too dull to go all foot or all mech. so anti-infantry and anti-tank psykic stuff can both be scary.

Circle Deployment

labmouse42 — GMT

In another thread, Ailaros was talking about deploying in circles to avoid flame templates. This got me to thinking, and has something I wanted to share with the dakka crew.

[b]Summary[/b]
The idea of circle deployment at first is unintuitive. it leaves large gaps of unused space on the board, and in a large army can lead to a rapid shortage of board quickly.
However, utilizing this empty space, it provides an opportunity to bubble wrap tanks perfectly to prevent deep striking meltas or DoA armies.

[b]Concept[/b]
Note the following image. Each tank is surrounded by a 10 man squad (or one 20 man blob). Each tank is completely protected, and the tank in front is also partially protected from DoA on the rear armor.
[url=http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/328042-Circle%20Deployment.html][img]http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/2/11/328042_sm-Circle%20Deployment.JPG[/img][/url]

[b]Challange[/b]
Does anyone have ideas to further improve for circle deployment? How does this work on a larger scale, with a 50 man blob and 10 tanks?

The Overlooked Nightspinner

labmouse42 — GMT

I made this post on another forum. I wanted to share the thoughts with others as well.

[b]Overall Usage[/b]
The nightspinner is aking to a blue card in 'Magic: The Gathering". It's there to cause annoyances and hindrances to your opponents plans. While it can kill, its main goal is to slow down or immobilize enemy forces.

The nightspinner does not do one thing so well it makes it an auto-take. Instead it does a number of small things so well that I suggest it as auto-take for today's mech'dar lists. This counts even moreso with scarab farms and draigowing growing in popularity.

[b]Accurate Indirect Fire[/b]
The nightspinner comes base as twin-linked. This means that there is a 55% of you getting a HIT on the scatter dice, and it has a BS 4 to scatter back on target. When shooting at a large target, such as a squad of scarabs or a land raider, this gives you an estimated 90% of hitting.
(to determine this I wrote a simulator program that would run weapon strikes on targets)

This is an excellent tool to take down scarab farms. The indirect fire means that the scarbs are not getting cover unless they are in area terrain, and the STR 6 instant kills them. You [i]can [/i]fire indirectly during night fight, but roll and extra d6 for scatter. As you have a 55% of getting a HIT, that's a perfectly acceptable way to keep the scarabs under control.

The real key here is that the nightspinner cannot be shot back at unless your opponent has indirect fire as well. You can use this tool to your hearts content without having to worry about pesky psy-dreads tearing it apart. Not that its a big deal anyway, as the psy-dreads will be focusing on the dragon's fortuned serpents barreling at them.

[b]Difficult Terrain[/b]
Another benefit of the nightspinner is the ability to put a difficult terrain check on whatever is hit by the template. This means that every model that moves after being hit takes non-savable wound on a 1 when they move. This means that the cryptek can die when they move, as you can't just allocate it off. It can also pick off the PK nob, the melta gun in a grey hunter squad, etc...

One common argument is to say 'well, just move one of the models and then you just have to make one test'. Thats true, and that means the unit in question has effectively lost 6" of movement that turn (as they can still run/fleet). This by itself is tremendously useful when your shooting at scarabs or twolves. I would gladly have them lower their movement by over 50%!

You can also use this to slow down draigowing movement. That death star is not quite so effective when its barely moving, and the rest of your army can just move to whereever its needs to be.

In a similar effect, it has a double dip whammy on scarab farms. 2 spinners can keep a scarab farm under control by insta-killing scarabs coming out, and slowing the entire farm down so they can't get far onto the board. And when they try to move, the scarabs take more wounds....

Finally, as its an accurate 5" template, its very feasible to hit 2 vehicles (3 if they are really clustered) in a parking lot. Since each one of those vehicles gets immobilized on a 1, it can be a nice thing to throw on some rhinos/chimeras, etc... Basically by immobilizing the tank, the troops inside will have to get out of it in order to score if they are not sitting on an objective.

If there are no other targets, hit the deathstar of the enemy. 1/6 chance that the LR/stormchicken will become useless for the delivery of DCA/termies. Given that a LC has a 4.66% of destroying that same LR, the 16.66% of immobolization is not all together bad. Its sure as hell not a squad of fire dragons good, but it has an indirect range of 72" Don't forget it rends to, so if your roll a 6 to damage your hitting AV 13-15. (albeit at AP -)

[b]Pinning[/b]
Don't forget that its also pinning. When your shooting at targets like draigowing, you have a chance (a small one, but a chance nonetheless) to cause them to be pinned for a turn. When your talking about a 600+ point deathstar unit, its a huge negative blow when it happens.

[b]Rending for Fun and Profit[/b]
The final benifit of the nightspinner is that its rending. If you drop the accurate template on 6 MEQ, one of them will rend. Unless they are in area terrain, they will lose at least one person.
This then kicks off the pinning test.

[b]Summary[/b]
To paraphrase Alton Brown, I hope that this post gives you a little understanding for the often-overviewed tank known as the nightspinner. Its one of those things that just does not look good on paper until you start playing with them.
Today I don't run fire prisms. I use nightspinners. Any serious mech'dar player does the same IMHO.

BA vs. Tau - Hau?

Titan Atlas — GMT

I'm facing a fellow tomorrow who uses tau, and I've already devised some generic tactics that apply to taking care of his powerful shooters (moving my fast vehicles...fast, getting across the map quickly, ignoring the kroot if he screens his forces with them, etc)

Any general weaknesses to exploit though? I have a feeling that so long as I get the charge on his forces and bring a little anti-tank I'm in the clear, but I've never faced these guys before so I'm a little hesitant (started out in December 2011)

Purifiers and GKSS, something I noticed

Joe Mama — GMT

Maybe this was obvious to a lot of you but these two units cost essentially the same:

10 GKSS, 2 psycannon, hammer - 230
8 Purifiers, 2 psycannon, hammer, 5 halberds - 227

Now assuming a list already has a solid number of troops (or has a HQ with grand strategy), is there any reason to take the GKSS over the Purifiers? Pretty much the same in shooting (same number of psycannons, the GKSSs have a few more stormbolter shots (4)). Purifiers are WAY better in CC, even if they don't seek out assault they will be less likely to be charged. The big difference is that there are 10 strikers for the 8 purifiers. But I don't know how much that matters. What do you guys think?

Ork boyz

Silver_skates — GMT

I'm very new to W40k so forgive me if this question is a little basic but for Ork boyz is it better to take Shootas or Slugas and Choppas?

I tend to run full 30 boy squads with a nob but my point is boyz have 2 attacks and are listed as having Sluggas and Choppas. Does that mean they have 3 attacks because of the close combat weapons or 2 because their profile is set up with the combat weapons included?

If I substitute the Shootas in do my boyz lose an attack?

Again, sorry if this is ridiculously basic but which combo would you run with?

orks vs scarabs?

necron99 — GMT

Hi DaddaDakka!

I'm playing in an escalation league starting at 500pt. One of the rules is that you're only required to take one troop choice. In my necron list I was thinking of taking two units of scarabs (7 & 8 bases respectively) and try and tie up 350pts worth of ork boys. He also had a truck with six nobs in it. Wasn't sure what the exact load out was of his army - I'm sure there were a few claws in there.

I saw him in a game last night and he basically marches across the table and swamps you and shoots along the way.

Here's my list thus far:

1x Illuminor Szeras
1x 5man warriors
1x Night Scythe
1x 7 Scarabs
1x 8 Scarabs

The HQ and the Troop choice catch a ride with the night scythe basically harassing the orks with it's TLTD until the scarabs show up. If I lose the night scythe then the HQ and Troop show up in reserve and goes and sits on an objective at some point.

The scarabs don't need to win just hold up the orks long enough that they can't reach an objective by the end of the game. I like to fill the board as much as possible so movement for him will be a little tedious anyway.

Thoughts, suggestions, etc would be greatly appreciated!

Tyranid Vs IG - How?

Smokebelch — GMT

Ok I feel a little bit cheated,

Agreed with a friend to make lists to play each other as TAC lists.

I took Aux's list as i dont have models for anything else right now. 1500
2 Primes lash+bonesword
2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard
10 Genes + Tox
10 Genes + Tox
20 Terms + Tox Sac
20 Terms + Tox Sac
Trygon + AG
Trygon + AG

He took ( I cant tell you the full upgrades cos i dont know)
Command squad with MoO + OOF(when he realised i was having reserves :cheese: ...nice)
Nova Cannon
Manticore
Battle Cannon
Hellhound
Chimera
7 Ratlings
5 Ratlings
2 x 10 man vet squads with a variety of guns
5 Storm Troopers

Basically he only bought 1300 points and i had to take off units...which he kinda forced me to get rid of two hive guard and some genestealers and a few termagants

So i proceed to set up on a minimal terrain map.

long story short he blocks up in the middle keeping manticore outta range of everything and with his OOF blocks my reserves n blasts me off the table rather boringly with some dubious line of sight abuse, cheesily, and in tiny little piece meals.

I felt cheated but held him to a technical draw on kill points even with appauling dice rolls. Both Genes came on wrong side and did absolutely nothing. I assaulted into terrain with a trygon and rolled triple 1 and failed charge. Am i wrong in thinking that him taking lots of blast templates for my horde and lots of ratlings to wound MC's on 4+ and OOF to block reserves as pretty much designed to kill me?

Any suggestions on an army composition designed to beat this army?

Would gargoyles be a good approach?

Death company question?

Tiarna Fuilteach — GMT

Can they combat squad? I like the look of the death company and their dreads and was thinking of doing an army based on CC

I don't have the book yet which is why I ask :D

Rhinos vs. Razorbacks

elcoop — GMT

Its only a 5 point difference for blood angels. Is it worth it, or should the points be spent elsewhere?

what is a farsight bomb? and can you take suits as troops with farsight?

sudojoe — GMT

I'm a complete Tau noob so please excuse the probably pretty obvious question but I got very confused when reading the Tau codex.

It says under farsight that I can take crisis suits as firewarriors? does that mean those elites count as troops? And do I still get to take more of them as elites?

And the restrictions below, does that mean I can just have 1 of each of the pathfinders + 1 hammerhead + 1 broadsides units? or is it just 1 unit of either of the choices below like just 1 hammerhead, and if I took it, I'd have zero pathfinders/broadsides/etc allowed to me?

Also, what exactly constitutes a farsight bomb as I've heard this before but have no idea what it means. He deepstrike in and try to dawnblade some land raider or something?

Are MoK CSM better than berzerkers?

Ailaros — GMT

Was sitting in a waiting room today, and was wondering, are khorne berzerkers really better than their points in regular CSM squads with a mark of khorne? I mean, for 250 points you could get either...

11x CSM
MoK
2x meltaguns
champ with fist

or

10x khorne berzerkers
champ with fist

So, what do the berzerkers really have to offer over the CSM?

+1 WS: This ups their killing power by a sixth against marines, but otherwise, this really isn't doing a lot, as everything weaker is already hit on 3's. It also ups their survival a bit against other WS5 models, but there aren't a lot of these out there.

+1 I on the charge: Like weapon skill, this is a dubious advantage in killing power. Really, it seems to me to be more a way to increase their survivability for the round of close combat directly after the charge than anything else.

+1 S on the charge. Once again, this ups their killing power a little, but it's not upping it by a whole lot. Really, it just seems to make it so that they don't need to rely on krak grenades against vehicles.

Fearless: Yeah, but compared to Ld10, that's only so much of a benefit, given that these guys are basically always going to win any given round of combat before they're wiped.

So, what the berzerkers are getting is a little more killing power, and a tiny increase in durability. You know what else increases durability and killing power? The extra marine. But that's not all.

The MoK marines have the same number of attacks in close combat, but they also come with bolters. If they chose to double tap and then eat a charge, they are going to get 5 attacks per model to the berzerker's 4 (shooting pistols being of rather dubious use in my opinion), half of which are at Ap5. Then you get to add to this the meltas, and, if you want to shell out more points, a combi-melta or lascannon or something.

I mean, run it through three quick scenarios. Assume that the CSM fire once to 24" and then again at double-tap 12", and then eat the charge, while the berzerkers shoot their pistols and then charge. Against KFF ork boyz, the MoK kill 13 before the boyz get to swing, while the berzerkers get 15. Against Tac marines, the MoK kill 7 before the powerfist gets activated to the berzerker's 7. Against THSS termies, the MoK kill 3 before the first hammer blow to the berzerker's 3. I mean, in either case, we're seeing them do about the same amount of damage, and this is in absolutely ideal circumstances for the berzerkers.

In the real world, the berzerkers aren't always getting the charge (especially against ork boyz), and without the charge, they lose nearly all of their extra killing power. Plus, the berzerkers are BEHOLDEN to charge, having no other capabilities, while the CSM can always double tap those banshees or wyches, or shoot melta at that dreadnought. Surely this increase in flexibility makes up for the fact that they're only Ld10 instead of fearless. The only other real benefit I can see is that they're not susceptible to mind war picking off an icon (or if those fake 6th ed rules wind up being real, easily losing their icon to a variety of sources of direct hits), or PBSs, but this can sort of be worked around.

Obviously as points go down to 210, the berzerkers get better as the cost of upgrades favors units that get their bonuses built into the models themselves, and as points go up towards 310, the advantage goes to the MoK squad as their icon stretches farther, and the lower cost per model means you get another extra couple of dudes.

So what do you guys think? I'm kind of tempted to build my next couple of troops choices as MoK squads rather than even more berzerkers, as, per point, they seem to be about the same in close combat, except with the option for shooting.

How to beat this Army?

Gekoguy — GMT

I have a match coming up against the following list. I was wondering how my list can beat it? The lists CANNONT be changed for reasons out of my control!
So saying "OMG WHY U TAKE THIS???" wont help!
I just need useful tactical advise!

ENEMY LIST!

HQ
Eldrad Ulthran
ELITES
10 Wraithguard with Wraithcannons+ Warlock with Rune armour, Shuriken Pistol and Witchblade
10 Firedragons with Fusion guns and Melta bombs+ Waveserpent with Twin-linked Eldar missile launchers and Spiritstones
TROOPS
10 Dire Avengers 1 upgraded to Exarch with Power weapon and Shimmersheild
14 Guardinas 2 upgreaded to Heavy Weapons team with Eldar missile launcher
HEAVY SUPPORT
War walker with 2 Eldar missile launchers and Spirit stones
5 Dark Reapers . 1 upgraded to Exarch withTempest launcher. Crackshot and Fastshot abilities

MY LIST!

HQ
Mephiston
ELITES
Sanguinary Guard Squad
2 Sanguinary Preists
TROOPS
5 Assault Marines, 1 PF, 1 MG, RB with TL LC
5 Assault Marines, 1 PF, 1 MG, RB with TL LC
5 Assault Marines, 1 PF, 1 MG, RB with TL LC
5 Assault Marines, 1 PF, 1 MG, RB with TL AC
5 Assault Marines, 1 PF, 1 MG, RB with TL AC

[size=9]Automatically Appended Next Post:[/size]
Anyone?

Necron wraiths - good, bad or ugly?

necron99 — GMT

I started playing Necrons as my first army about a year ago - got my but kicked on a regular basis. Switched over to GK and at least had some success (still a newbie). Now with the new Necron codex I've dusted off my 2500 points of necrons and ready to give it another shot.

Based on what I've read we're pretty much a shooty army still. I think GW wants us to think Lychguard or Praetorians are the CC answer - all nice and shiny like. So I looked to see what happened to the wraiths. Whhooohooo!! Two wounds, 3 S6 rending attacks, 3+ invul, jump infantry that ignore all terrain/tests. Plus they are now configurable so they can be made a little different allowing me to take advantage of wound allocation shananagins. At first I didn't think I'd like the whip coils until I noticed how many armies have I6 or higher models. I realized it only applies to models in base contact but still...I think it's a good trade off in the land of DE, GK and the like.

I'd like to hear of anyone's experience with them under the new codex. I'm considering them for my 500pt escalation league army.

What is the best bike army? Ravenwing?

Marthike — GMT

Ok so I know raven wing is a bike army but i know space marines can do the same.

Eldar have a jet bike army, orks can aswell.

I want an all bike/fast army.

so I have a eldar jet bike army list alreaady written up, but I don' think that is as competitive as a ravenwing or SM bike army.

Question 1

so for raven wing, do you want more bikes or massed landspeeders?

Question 2

are an all bike ork army do well? (I know vs GK they are already dead)

Question 3

if i build the most competitive list for all of them which is be the best? (inclined to think ravenwing)

Vanguard or Assault Marines as tar pit/bubble wrap

Cozzy215 — GMT

Like the topic suggests, I had an Idea: Use a small squad Vanguard Vets or Assault marines as a tar pit for fast, elusive enemies (Eldar and equivalents) so heavy hitters (Read: CC Termies) can get to them with minimal fuss. If you are playing a game where that type of speed isn't really necessary for whatever reason, they could be deployed as bubble wrap or a counter-punch unit to protect an objective or valuable unit. Any thoughts on the validity of this in terms of it being competitive at any level?

Why are people so cranky about Venomthropes?

OIF Knight — GMT

I have yet to run these guys in a game, but on paper they seem pretty nice. I know they compete for Elite slots, which is understandable, but this hardly seems like a reason to write them off. I plan on trying 2 squads of 3 Hive guard and a brood of 2 Venomthropes this weekend. I've been researching the internets and found a lot of folks that have tried the Venomthrope and swear by it. Between FnP from tervigons and 5+ cover from the spore cloud, this can result in some very hearty bugs. In a footslogging CC oriented list, like I run, a 5+ cover save is golden. If you have the points, regen would fit nicely too. Not to mention they cause dangerous terrain tests which although not a game changer can be really annoying against Orks or GK's (lets face it, you kill so much as 1 GK terminator because of dangerous terrain, you'll be laughing all the way to the bank!).

So do people have opinions in favor of these guys? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? Any good stories or uses for Venomthropes? Is there a downside to them that I'm not seeing, other than they take up an Elite slot? (which I already don't really consider a big downside).

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!