http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/21.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net
YES I also posted this in the 40k Proposed Rules section, but since this has equal relevance to both WHFB and 40k I figured it'd be best to throw it out for both sides so those who only read for Fantasy sections can take notice as well.

At the risk of sounding like a complete moron, I'd like to propose rules for compatibility of Fantasy and 40k units rules-wise. I love my IG, and I also love my Dwarfs, and with enough time I think it'd be fun to implement multiple units into one army from both sides AND seamlessly integrate whole armies from Fantasy into 40k battles and vice-versa. PLEASE do not take this too seriously! It is silly and I realize that but I think it could be fun!

Before I get gunned down, just let me say that fluff is out of the question. I don't care about the fact that a Dwarf axe wouldn't be able to do jack squat (no pun intended) to hardly anything including flak armour and they'd get torn to shreds by even lasguns. I just think it'd be a fun little excursion, to be able to throw some Fantasyhammer units into a 40k game or two. All stats would be the same, so yes that means Dwarfs (I'm just using them as an example since it's the only army I'm truly familiar with through and through) would often be on equal footing with Space Marines in terms of strength and toughness.

I have put a small bit of thought into this, but I'm sure you, the community, has more knowledge of overall rules for both 40k and Fantasy seeing as how I just started playing 40k little more than a year ago and Fantasy maybe 6 months ago.

Biggest problems I saw:

1. Most Fantasy units probably don't have anything to crack tanks since they have no equipment like Melta weapons and such specifically made for anti-armor. That makes fighting vehicle armies hell for everyone.

My remedy? Write up basic rules for some of the weapons i.e. runic dwarf weapons or war machines, and perhaps give some cavalry the spear weapons of the IG Rough Riders. I know that nearly every army barring Wood Elves has a fair compliment of war machines they can bring to bear to be adapted for vehicle combat, and it would be fairly simple to make amendments to certain weapons that seem like they'd be apt at vehicle killing if anything such as aforementioned runic and magic weapons and "heavy" weapons like spears or great weapons. Also, keep monstrous creatures in mind. I know a well-used tree man could plow straight through my Leman Russ lines without a second thought if he gets lucky based on strength alone. As in the 40k rulebook, monstrous creatures deal an extra D6 for armour penetration, giving them 2D6 plus Strength for armour penetration. More rules will come later for what I can think of, but I'll need to get my hands on some more codices beforehand. Most of these augmentations would have to be individualized for each Fantasy army's wargear.

2. 40k Is very shooty, Fantasy hammer is not. Many armies could get knocked out in the first fusillade of fire from the 40k army.

However, most of what I can see of Fantasyhammer still has good armor saves, and perhaps ward spells can be expanded to simply include all shooting weapons besides things like flamers and blast templates. Plus, many Fantasy armies have a good amount of missile weapons when needed, and some (such as wood elves) have extremely powerful special effects like insta-kill arrows which my cannon crews and thanes have often fallen victim to. Also, seeing as how most Fantasy armies are based around close combat, they are built to withstand shooting to GET to close combat. If I expect my dwarf warriors to be doing some traveling and get shot at along the way, I make sure they have at least an armour save of 4+ from shields! I'm assuming most other armies have similar ways to keep their units from being shot up, whether it's raising more dead for Vampire Counts or regeneration or simple hard-to-kill-ness of something like Tomb Kings. I always have a hard time shooting up anything my Wood Elf friend lays on the field because of his clever use of cover, even if they are in range of my Thunderers every turn.
This is something that I know would need more in-depth reworking. This is where I definitely need the ingenuity of the Dakka community. Gimme some ideas and I'll work with you to make it work!

3. Movement is very different, including unit coherency.

I say, let the units be incoherent! Use the basic movement rules from Fantasyhammer for marching, running, etc. to determine movement distance, but they shouldn’t need to be in blocks; that would just cause an entire unit to be wiped out by a single ordnance blast. Keep them within 2 inches just like 40k units. However, since close combat requires the units to all go into base contact anyways, just have them loosely reform if need be for the combat based on the rough estimate of how they were beforehand.

4. Close combat: Basic idea in my mind is 40k units use 40k rules, Fantasyhammer use Fantasy rules.

Spearmen, ranks, and such would be the same as in Fantasy and the close combat is calculated nearly exactly the same in terms of wounds and such. When a Fantasy unit enters close combat with a 40k unit, the fantasy army immediately reforms into ranks based on their previous positions, as stated before. To-hit and to-wound are exactly the same from my readings of both rulebooks. Models which may attack are relatively equivalent; once the Fantasy unit forms its ranks, the first and second ranks may both attack, and the third rank in a horde with 10 or more models per rank. 40k units in base contact (which are essentially the first rank) can attack, as well as any within two inches of the "first rank." No problems here.
The part where it gets sticky is resolution… I understand the points system from Fantasy well enough, but putting it into 40k... Ranks, standards, and such wouldn’t be present to the 40k army so it seems like it would be simpler to use the 40k resolution based solely on wounds inflicted, but that takes a lot out of the essence of Fantasy close combat which is what I believe makes the game much of the time!
Now I do have some simple alterations whipped up to the Fantasy points system, but... eh. It might work, it might not, but I could use some ol' elbow grease from you guys to temper these ideas!
Anyways, as I'm sure you probably know, Fantasy resolution is based on:
1. Wounds inflicted
2. Charge
3. Ranks
4. Standards
5. Flank and Rear Attacks
6. The High Ground

So, what could be changed? Wounds inflicted are very obviously perfectly compatible. One point per unsaved wound. The charge point goes to whoever charged. Ranks... Well, Fantasy army is easy enough, but for 40k, err... Perhaps break the unit into "ranks" based on coherency; keep the models within 2 inch coherency lengthwise, but every model in the unit must move as close as it can to the enemy when Pile-In! takes effect each turn, so the models have the lowest amount of space between them going towards the enemy. Then, measure the distance from the front of the unit to the back (relative to the enemy). Every 2 inches (or 3?) counts as one rank, provided that the unit never dips under a certain width (need suggestions!)

5. Magic and dispelling: Magic is, obviously, entirely different. Even Dwarfs, who don’t even use spells, get a dispel pool. Of course, as I said I don’t know any other armies well enough in Fantasy to claim knowledge, so I honestly don’t know how magic casting works to them individually except for if a spellcaster does something wrong his head can explode. I’m a bit lost on this one too I suppose, though I imagine homebrew rules for warp vs magic can be pounded out by some veteran players.
My ideas;
First, dispelling for 40k armies against a casting Fantasy army is exactly the same as a normal Fantasy army trying to dispel. They get the lower D6 rolled by the caster in dispel dice and for every spellcaster the 40k army rolls a D6 and on a roll of 6 they get another die added to their dispel pool.
Second, dispelling 40k cast spells with a Fantasy dispeller... again I'm a bit blank on this one. I feel that the Fantasy army SHOULD be able to dispel the 40k warp spells, seeing as how the 40k should be able to do the same. A simple suggestion was an opposed leadership test, with the difference of the character's leadership added to the caster's test. For example, a L8 40k psyker attempts a spell against a L9 Fantasy wizard. The psyker will add 1 to the leadership test result because the wizard has one higher leadership point. If the psyker can't make the test, the strain was too great and his powers can't be harnessed. Next, the wizard makes his opposed roll. If he rolls lower than what the psyker rolled, he manages to overpower the psyker's warp spell with his own magical power, and the spell is negated. If the psyker's augmented leadership is passed and he is not overpowered by the wizard, his spell functions as normal. Perils of the Warp takes its toll as normal on a double 1 or double 6.

Anyways, I just felt like it may be a fun idea for those of us who enjoy throwing fluff to the winds once in a while. Plus, as the rulebook says, “The most important rule is that none of the rules are important,”

More coming soon hopefully! I definitely appreciate any and all comments and suggestions!
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429815/3911883.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429815/3911883.page GMT
------------------------------------------------------------------- [b][size=18] NECALLI [/size][/b] --------------------------------------------------------------------
[b][size=14]SOTEK'S FANGS, KROXIGOR OF THE THIRD SPAWNING, EXECUTIONER FOR THE SERPENT GOD[/size][/b]

[img]http://befunkycartoonizer.s3.amazonaws.com/C1267360-1329117684large.jpg[/img]

Fluff
[spoiler]Necalli was spawned with dark red skin and green scales. The skink priests decided that this was no meer deformity, this Kroxigor had with the mark of Sotek. Necalli was spawned with the Skinks as any Kroxigor, but Necalli never grew to like the Skinks nor his Kroxigor kin. At first the Skink priests looked to Necalli to be a great builder sent by Sotek himself to help them make there city great, but Necalli often disobeyed the instructions from his smaller kin and a dispute with a high Skink official ended up violent as Necalli grabbed a large tool and decapitated the official. The cities Skink priests ordered his execution, and he fled. He fled into the deepest Jungles of Lustria where he found Tehenhauin. Tehenhauin knew what Necalli had done, yet also knew that Sotek had designated this one for something greater and so he showed him mercy and gave him food and shelter. Though Tehenhauin was a small kin, Necalli saw him as a prophet and a mentor as Tehenhauin taught him great things of the serpent god Sotek. After a few months of Tehenhauin's "lessons" which often evolved the slaughter of Skaven scouting parties, and encampments, Tehenhuin declared him an official prophet of Sotek. Later that night Sotek directly spoke to Necalli in a dream and told him to sweep the world of the heretics and disbelievers, and when Necalli asked where he would find such Sotek responded to him with a bellowing hiss "They are everywhere my child." When Necalli awoke he found a giant blade attached to a snake-like shaft, and inscribed onto the shaft were the words "Those who stand in the path of Sotek shall taste the venom sting of his fangs." In the morning Necalli departed from Tehenhauin and begun on his quest. Necalli spent many weeks surviving in the jungle (which in Lustria is no easy feat.) There was a moment during his time in the jungle where Necalli was severely wounded after barely surviving an encounter with a fearsome Carnosaur. Necalli lay half-dead, starving, lying against a tree with one hand on his weapon, and the other over his wounds. He thought that he would perish so he grabbed his weapon, dipped it into his own blood, and carved Sotek symbols onto to the nearby stone. With sights of chipped stone and his own dripping cold blood he fell unconscious. Necalli awoke, and in front of him a snake waited with a large verminous creature in it's mouth. The snake laid the rodent at Necalli's feet and slithered away. Necalli quickly ate the catch and felt that he had enough strength to continue his journey. Later on, Necalli encountered a traveling war party of Saurus Warriors that were now resting in an encampment. The stench was intense as a pile filled with the dead bodies of slain foe was being burned, but after the time spent in the jungle he had endured worse. An Oldblood among them stepped out of a tent and slowly approached Necalli until he stood but feet from the Kroxigor that stood towering over him. He looked up toward him, and yet still managed to keep an air of command. The encampment feel silent. "You are far from the Temple Cities builder... " the Oldblood grunted. Necalli proceeded to tell the Oldblood about his story and even mentioned the crimes he had comminited. The Oldblood laughed and said "Any one who can battle with a Carnosaur and survive is welcome in my party!" The Oldblood later taught the Necalli how to use a weapon and use it well. Necalli even joined them in battle on numerous occasions. And before leaving to continue his mission the Oldblood sent a message to all Lustria that all crimes Necalli committed shall here forth be forgotten. Necalli at one point returned to the his home Temple City, expecting to find angry skink officials and priests, but when he arrived the residents said they were all found dead, it had seemed that they were killed one by one by snakes as they slept. Now Necalli travels all over and assassinates targets that appear in his dreams, often breaking into towns and fortresses, smashing through gates, and tearing through soldiers and guards to reach his targets. When the defenses are too heavy Necalli, in spite of his size, is actually known to sneak through pipelines, sewage, or over walls hidden in the dark of night.[/spoiler]
In Game
[spoiler][i]The rules for Necalli are obviously not 'official' so you must get permission with your opponent before using, but if you do decide to include him for some sort of special mission, have fun.[/i] :)

Necalli is a special character and may only be taken in a Lizardmen army. He will count as a hero choice. For Necalli you may simply use a normal Kroxigor model.

[b]Necalli[/b]
[b]M[/b] 6
[b]WS[/b] 5
[b]BS[/b] 0
[b]S[/b] 5
[b]T[/b] 5
[b]W[/b] 4
[b]I[/b] 3
[b]A[/b] 7
[b]Ld[/b] 8

[b]Points:[/b] 300

[b]Unit Type:[/b] Monsterous Infantry

[b]Weapons and Armour:[/b] Decapitator of Sotek.

[size=18][b]MAGIC[/b][/size]
Nacalli is a Level 1 Wizard, who uses the Lore of Beasts.

[size=18][b]SPECIAL RULES[/b][/size]
[b]Cold Blooded; 3+ Scaly Skin; Fear; Immune to Poison; Unbreakable; Forest Strider.[/b]

[b]Sotek's Target[/b]
Necalli finds who Sotek wishes for him to kill in dreams. The serpent god states the judgement and will assist his executioner on doing what must be done. Randomly select one enemy character before deployment. All unsaved wounds caused by Necalli on the target are doubled. In addition Necalli causes Terror to the target or any unit the target's joined.

[b]Sotek's Blessing[/b]
Necalli is watched over by Sotek himself, granting him a 5+ ward save.

[b]Aquatic[/b]
Necalli has the Marsh Strider, River Strider, and Lake Strider special rules.

[b]Kroxigor Assassin[/b]
In spite of his size Necalli is actually known to sneak through pipelines, sewage, forests, or over walls hidden in the dark of night waiting for the precise time to strike. Roll a D6 before deployment; on a 6 Necalli gains the Scout special rule, on a 4, or a 5 Necalli gains the Vanguard special rule.

[size=18][b]MAGIC ITEMS[/b][/size]
[b]Decapitator of Sotek[/b]
Halberd. Blessed by Sotek to have a potent poison and incredible strength even a slight cut from the blade can kill its targets in seconds. This weapon grants Necalli +2 Strength instead of the normal +1 given by Halberds. In addition the Decapitator of Sotek grants Necalli Killing Blow and Poisoned Attacks.
[/spoiler]

So yeah, I would love any input or suggestions you got.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429723/3910423.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429723/3910423.page GMT
Now I already understand the rules and models are going to be an accumulation of different makers and games and won't be allowed outside of a club or friendly environment BUT, here is what I've come up with. Its just a little extra to the army but is new and I would appreciate some constructive feedback on it.
----------------------------------------

[spoiler][b]JUNGLE TROLLS 50pts[/b]

A wild form of troll that is generally found in jungle like settings, outcast and perhaps mismatched from those found within other settings these jungle trolls whilst still appearing equally as dull witted and prone to animosity it is also apparent that they are much less capable of looking out for themselves in the more exotic habitat of Lustria in which they reside. The unfamiliar trait that such trolls seem to lack is knowing when they have a good thing. This being there allegiance to the Amazon’s of Lustria, in return for some muscle on the battlefield the Amazon’s keep them, like monstrous pets both feeding and providing shelter for the rather incapable trolls and occasionally even padding there slimy hulking bodies with makeshift armour to protect those that seem to do better then others.


[b]Unit Size:[/b] 3+
[b]Equipment: [/b]Spikes, Branches, Claws and etc. (hand weapon)
[b]Special Rules:[/b] Regeneration 4+, Stupidity, Fear

[b]M – WS – BW – S – T – W – I – A – LD [/b]
6 – 3 – 3 – 5 – 4 – 3 – 1 – 3 – 4

[b]Options:[/b]
Light Armor……………………….. 5pts ea
Shield……………………….. ……..5pts ea
Additional Combat Weapon………..10pts ea
Great Weapon……………………....20pts ea



[b]JUNGLE TROLL CHIEF 75pts
0-1 only[/b]

Once in a generation leaders are born, the same can be said for the trolls themselves, after all someone has to keep the peace and arrangements with the Amazons. As such one within a group of trolls will take the position of chieftan, often the more intelligent of them (if there is such a thing).
One of the downsides to this intelligence as far as the Amazon’s can tell is that the Chief will never openly run into combat without some kind of colatoral insurance. This means that the Chief will only enter battle with someone of equal importance as seen through there eyes – Namely a Serpent Priestess and under no other condition other then to have such an important person by there side (or ontop of) will a Chief join the front lines of a Amazon army.

Mount for the Serpent Priestess only.
[b]Equipment:[/b] Great Weapon
[b]Special Rules:[/b] Regeneration 4+, I’ll think for the lot of you, Fear, Tall

[quote][b]M – WS – BW – S – T – W – I – A – LD [/b]
6 – 3 – 3 – 5 – 4 – 3 – 1 – 3 – 6[/quote]

[quote][b]Notes: [/b]Being such a large mount this creature provides a +2 to the armor save of the character riding them.

If the rider is killed the Chief will flee automatically.[/quote]

[b]I’ll think for the lot of you[/b]
Chieftains pride themselves in there leadership of the other trolls and as such there leadership qualities have a chance of propping up during combat. On a turn in which a troll unit the chief is a part of or the chief himself fails a stupidity check the chief may instead choose to take charge of the situation against all odds by passing a leadership test which allows him or the unit he is a part of to reroll there stupidity test. However upon failure the chief’s leadership will drop 2pts for the remainder of the game, accumulating for each failure throughout the course of the game.

[b]Tall[/b]
The rider is given a 360 degree sight unless a model or object of terrain taller then the troll is obstructing view in a given direction. This allows the rider a broad area of vision in all directions in a full 360 degree arc. It should be noted that this means that the rider can also be seen above the troll and specifically fired upon.
[/spoiler]]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429476/3905949.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/429476/3905949.page GMT gw official rules. As these were printed in white dwarf some time back.

My local gw said I can use the fw rules as long as I clear it with who I'm playing. But if I could get the gw rules would be better.

I know you not allowed to post rules from army codex here but not sure on white dwarf stuff as I can not get the issue. Or if you can point me in the right direction or if you could explain how they differ from the forge world ones would be great.

Cheers ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/428803/3892947.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/428803/3892947.page GMT 1) Two ironblaster sized cannons manned by two ogres and three war machine crew.
2) 22 handgunners inside the tank shooting through small windows. 11 on port, and 11 on starboard.
3) 8 handgunners and 1 engineer with a longrifle on a platform on top of the machine.
4) 3 turrets from the steam tank kit.

The model is almost 10 inches long, 5 inches wide at the widest point, and 4-5.5 inches high at the tallest point.

So, I'm wondering:

1) how should it move?
2) how should it shoot?
3) how does close combat work?
-----a) can the ogres attack? Can it fire some or all its guns while in close combat?
4) how many wounds should it have?
5) what should its other stats look like?
6) what special rules should it have?

This thing is likely to play a huge role in the special scenario, so it needs to be powerful. At the same time, it cannot be unkillable. If it helps, there will be nearly 15000 points on each side.

Thanks in advance,

-Jim]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/427815/3876028.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/427815/3876028.page GMT
I would add him having at least Focused Rumination, and Becalming Cogitation.


Lord Kroak...

Special Rules add: Loremaster

Replace First Generation Spawing with the following:

"[i]It is said of the Venerable Lord Kroak that within the depths of his unfathomable mind, he holds more forgotten knowledge than even the greatest mages will ever attain.[/i]

Lord Kroak is treated as a level 5 Wizard and may select any two Lores from the Warhammer Rulebook. In addition he knows The Deliverance of Itza. There is no limit to the number of dice that Lord Kroak can use when casting a spell. If Lord Kroak casts Irrestestable Force, the casting attempt automaticlly fails, but no roll on the Miscast table is made."


Replace Spirit of Lord Kroak with the following:

"[i]Lord Kroak's mortal remains are infused with the arcane power of the Old Ones.[/i]

Lord Kroak channels on a 2+."


Add the following special rule:

"Master of the Disciplines:
Lord Kroak has all the Disciplines listed on pg. 43."


And then increase his point cost to 750.



Oxyotol should cost around 115.



Tehenhauin should cost around 200.



I should go over the other ones but... If you wanna do that post your change below.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/427393/3868347.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/427393/3868347.page GMT
Tomb Kings have Necrotects, see? And they build and maintain the Living Statuary the Tomb Kings use in wars, right?

One of the Special Characters of the Tomb Kings is one of, if not [i]the[/i] best Necrotect ever.

What about a rule, for either Necrotects, a new Uber Necrotect Lord, or Ramhotep the Visionary, that allows a unit of Animated Constructs (Ushabti, perhaps) to be/count as Core? This would allow a Tomb Kings player to field an army composed of almost nothing but Constructs, which in my opinion, would be awesome. Great or Two Weapon Ushabti as the main Core Block, Great Bow Ushabti as archers. War and Necrosphinxes instead of Chariots and Cavalry, and Colossi and Heirotitans doing their thing, watched over by a Liche Priest and a Necrotect or two.

It even fits the fluff! There's a story in the book about a Khemrian Construct army- or rather several. The Alabaster Army of Quatar, Ramhotep's Marble Army, etc. etc. I just think it'd be awesome.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426863/3858089.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426863/3858089.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426552/3852705.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426552/3852705.page GMT
Army-wide rules:
Swift Strider (elf only): The hit and run tactics of wood elves lend toward rapid assaults and equally rapid withdraws.
Borne of the Woods: Forest Strider, additionally, when a wood elf unit moves into a mysterious woods, they may roll twice and choose which result the forest is.
Feint: All fast cav and skirmishers that flee on the first round of combat automatically rally after completing their fallback move. If they are caught, they are wiped out as normal.

That's the basis for the list. I'm hoping to give it a rapid skirmishing feel, with elf units bouncing into and out of combat. My plan is to pin down the feel of the army first, then the lore, then round out the list from there.

-Matt]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426262/3847792.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426262/3847792.page GMT 1. What is the optimal number of players? I was thinking 6 but that would leave an awfully crowded map if each faction set up with 7 tiles. I was thinking the setup could be one board edge tile and every adjacent one, excluding special tiles.
2. What's the best setup for mines? I don't care for the BITBL rules exactly, was thinking more along the lines of ME: each mine produces 2d6x10 gold. on snake eyes it's destroyed, on boxcars roll on the BITBL table, rerolling the bad one. Gold = One use only extra armypoints.
3. Magic items: should they be limited? I was thinking only mundain except on the heros of legend and regiments of renown, but idk, that might neuter something I'm not aware of.
4. Events table: I was thinkig of using the BITBL one, but only rolling one die for the 'tens' digit and then allowing the player to chose which of the 6 ones he wanted. Would have to rearrange some of the similar ones so they wernt in the same category. This would suit 6 players perfectly.

5. Seasonal events:
Spring - Bloodsport
"Many Errants of brettonia come to the rugged wilderness each spring for the annual Beastpurge, a massive ride through the nations sparce forests, corralling the beastmen of the savannah into herds and then slaughtering them. In the weeks before and after the hunt the border castle of ElCapitan is full of arrogent knights and their egos, leading to the creation of a small colloseum where partys could settle differences via combat."
Wanted to do some sort of character battle royal, with no monstrous mounts. Again not sure about char loadouts... lastman standing/Person who controls the tile can add knights errant 0-1 to a single army.

Summer- Calm Seas
"Warm summer winds calm the seas as each army's fleet leaves port in a quest for naval dominance"
This is kinda crazy: was thinking of some ship rules:
Naval Units: each unit must have the smallest frontage possible to make a rank (5 for infantry/3 for MI). Only Infantry and MI form boats, and each boat may carry a single warmachine for each 4 ranks of infantry/2 ranks of MI. Other than infantry/MI characters, flyers and warmachines, no other unit types may be taken. Boats roll 2d6 + d6 for every 4/2 ranks and takes the highest two, and may only wheel. Half of the unit may shoot out of each side of the ship, and if movement brings two ships into contact combat is fought as per building sections.
Winner dominates the seas for the year: count all coast tiles as adjacent to his empire as per elves in BITBL; if elves win they also count all river tiles as adjacent to their empire.

Autumn - Storm of The Century
"Fairhaven is a distopian paradise. The Elven vampire that lives in the nearby mountains tends the town like a gardener prunes hedges. 52 families with 100 members each. For these inhabitants, the perfect peace and harmony comes with the price of one family member "serving in the castle" per year, those that go are soon forgotten and not seen again. The culmination of so many powers creates a roiling storm that threatens to wipe fairhaven from the map."
6 way Storm of magic battle; the count is grateful for scattering the other armies and protecting his model community, the winner claims Castillian Keep and can include graveguard as 0-1 in one of his armies.

Winter - Seige of Billibillia (forgot the citys name)
Seige rules, MVP as chosen by the losers gets the tile.

6. How should the winner be decided? Largest empire? Use relic system?

Thanks in advance!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426132/3845304.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/426132/3845304.page GMT
So please guys! Since I'm a 40k player I really don't know much about fantasy statlines and how 'good' something is in there with which and what rules.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/425282/3828338.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/425282/3828338.page GMT 40k players out there, you'll know what I'm talking about, but otherwise...

Should we introduce a rule to fantasy that means Tx2=S=instant kill?

And a rule that makes it immune to that rule.

E.G

S10 Cannon hits T5 Monster with 3 wounds.

2x5=10 so the toughness is half the Strength.

The moster is removed as a casualty.

BUT... A s8 spell hits Malekith, but he has the Invincible (yet to think of a better name), so he loses only one wound.

Kapiche?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/424924/3821655.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/424924/3821655.page GMT
Make any character Dovahkiin (must be a lord)- 150pts
Make any character Master Dovahkiin (must be a lord)- 205pts

A normal Dovakiin may select 2 shouts. A master may select 4.
Once a shout has been used, you must wait one turn before you can used any again effects always last for 1 turn, unless otherwise mentioned.


Animal Allegiance- [i]A Shout for help from the beasts of the wild, who come to fight in your defence[/i]- Select any unit or character within 12"(can also be used in combat). Selected unit takes 3D6 strength 2 hits. If the character is within a forest of any kind, the strength is increased to 3. If the character is in combat +2 to the total.

Aura Whisper-[i]Your Voice is not a Shout, but a whisper, revealing the life forces of any and all[/i].- Select any character or unit within 24". That unit cannot benefit from any kind of cover from shooting or magic that are fired or cast by the Dovahkiin

Become Ethereal- [i]The Thu'um reaches out to the Void, changing your form to one that cannot harm, or be harmed.[/i]- For one turn, you gain a 2+ ward save for one turn, but cannot attack in any way.

Call of Valour- [i]The valiant of Sovngarde hear your Voice, and journey beyond space and time to lend aid.[/i]- "Call of Valor" allows you to access one of the heroes in the Hall of Valor. It summons a ghost of a once great hero to fight at your side, though not as powerful as they once were, they are still mighty warriors.
They have this profile:
WS: 5
BS: 5
S: 4
T: 4
I: 5
A: 3
W: 2
They have a 5+ Ward save, Immune To Psychology and stubborn.
They have: Heavy Armour, Shield and a Hand-weapon.
They appear anywhere within your unit. If the character is not within a unit, it function as a separate unit that is starts anywhere within 2" of the Dragon born.
They last for one turn, but you have to roll a 5+ and they will stay for two.

Dismay- [i]And the weak shall fear the Thu'um, and flee in terror. [/i]
Select any unit within 6". They must take a leadership test on -1.

Elemental Fury- [i]The Thu'um imbues your arms with the speed of wind, allowing for faster weapon strikes.[/i]- The dragonborn has +2 attacks for that turn.

Fire Breath- [i]Inhale air, exhale flame, and behold the Thu'um as inferno.[/i] An attack that can be used in combat. Place the flame template anywhere starting from the dragonborn. Everything fully under it takes a S3 hit with -2 to armour saves, anything partly under it takes a S3 hit with no change to armour saves.

Marked for Death- [i]Speak, and let your Voice herald doom, as an opponent's armor and lifeforce are weakened.[/i] Select a single character within 6". they are at -1 toughness and -3 to their armour save for one turn.

Slow Time- [i]Shout at time, and command it to obey, as the world around you stands still.[/i]- Character has Always strikes first for that turn and a 6+ ward save if they do not already have one.

Whirlwind Sprint- [i]The Thu'um rushes forward, carrying you in its wake with the speed of a tempest.[/i] The character doubles his move for that turn.

Sadly, I could not think of making decent rules for [size=18]FUS RO DAH![/size] (Unrelenting Force). Post any ideas?......

I imagine that this needs a lot of tweaks, but it's a start.



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/424394/3812247.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/424394/3812247.page GMT
So here is my special mission-y thing I thought of:

Roll D6 before deployment;

1-3: The battle is taking place during the night. Night:
- Missiles fired at a target within 12" suffer an additional -1 To Hit, or -2 To Hit offices from over 12" away.
- All Encampments of Order don't do there special effect (AKA: A building from an Encampment of Order is counted as a normal building.)
- All units from Forces of Order take Fear and Terror tests with -2 Leadership.
- All units from Forces of Destruction are subject to the Frenzy until beaten in combat. Units from the Forces of Destruction that were already subject to Frenzy gain 2 additional attacks, instead of the 1 normally given by Frenzy.

4-6: The battle is taking place during the day. Day:
- All Encampments of Chaos don't do there special effect (AKA: A building from an Encampment of Chaos is counted as a normal building.)
- All units from Forces of Order have 10 WS, 'Always Strikes First', and 'Quick to Fire' special rule.

Roll a die on turn 3;
1-3: Nothing happens.
4-6: If it was Night, it is now Day. If it was Day it is now Night.

Roll a die on turn 4, if Night hasn't already changed to Day or visa versa.
1-2: Nothing happens.
3-6: If it was Night, it is now day. If it was day it is now Night.

Roll a die on turn 5, if Night hasn't already changed to Day or visa versa.
1: Nothing happens.
2-6: If it was Night, it is now Day. If it was Day it is now Night.

Turn 6: If Night hasn't already changed to Day or visa versa: If it was Night, it is now Day. If it was Day it is now Night.


So what do you think? I'm open for suggestions, and I know it's not very good, but maybe you can help me with that. Lol.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/423673/3799283.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/423673/3799283.page GMT [b]Date:[/b] Friday 13 January 2012 8:30pm
[b]To:[/b] Phil Kelly
[b]Subject:[/b] How I Fly?

Dearest Phillip,

You accidently my wings!

Mini Varghulf (Vargheists) can fly. Man-Bat and Dracula has it, too!

Why how-come I no fly?

srsly,

Varghulf]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/423161/3789829.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/423161/3789829.page GMT Some two-bit whack-job. Wears a cheap purple suit and clown make-up.

M:6 --- WS:2 --- BS:4 --- S:3 --- T:3 --- W:2 --- I:4 --- A:1 --- LD:8

Equipment: Hand Weapon

Special Rules: Stubborn, Immune to Psycology

Scars and Warpaint: Joker causes Fear.

"Why so serious?": Joker has 10 Weapon Skill, and Killing Blow on the turn he charges into combat.

Poison Immunity: The Joker's immunity to poisons has been built up over years of dedicated abuse. Joker is immune to poison.

Cheat Death: The Joker has cheated death numerous times, even in seemingly inescapable and lethal situations. He has been seen caught in explosions, been shot repeatedly, dropped from lethal heights, electrocuted, and so on, but he always returns once again to wreak havoc. Joker has a 4+ ward save.


Joker's Weapons: Roll D6 at the beginning of each close combat phase that Joker is in close combat.

1: Nothing happens.

2: Joker gets the opportunity to make a daring escape. You may take an initiative test. If passed move 16" out of combat in the direction of your choosing, if failed Joker takes a wound.

3: A blade appears out of Joker's shoe. Joker has 1 extra Attack until the end of this phase.

4: Joker grabs someone's hand electrocutes them with a powerful hand buzzer. Joker has Strength 10 until the end of this phase.

5:  Joker puts on an acid squirting flower. Joker has the Killing Blow special rule until the end of this phase.

6:  Joker venom; a deadly poison. The target dies while laughing uncontrollably. Jokers attacks hit automatically and have the Heroic Killing Blow special rule until the end of this phase.


Slaughter is the Best Medicine: During the ballistic phase roll D6.

1: "Guns are too quick. You can't savor all the... little... emotions.". Nothing happens.

2: Joker pulls out a shotgun. Now until the end of the phase Joker is equipped with a Shotgun; the gun is treated as a ranged weapon that has the range of 12", the strength of 6, and Multiple Wounds (2)

3: Joker pulls put a machine pistol. Now until the end of the phase Joker is equipped with a Machine Pistol; the gun is treated as a short bow that has the strength of 4, and 5x Multiple Shots.

4: Joker pulls out a submachine gun. Now until the end of the phase Joker is equip with a Submachine Gun; the gun is treated as a short bow that has the strength of 5, and 3x Multiple Shots.

5: Joker pulls out sniper rifle. Now until the end of the phase Joker is equipped with a Sniper Rifle; the gun is treated as ranged weapon that has the the range of 48", the strength of 6, and if you roll a 6 to wound against infantry with this weapon, it automatically slays the opponent. Armor and regeneration saves are ignored. A ward save can be attempted -- if passed it prevents all damage from the attack.

6: Joker pulls out an RPG. Now until the end of this phase Joker is equipped with RPG; Ranged Weapon. Flaming Attack. Small Blast Template. Strength 10, Range 36, causes Muliple Wounds (3). 


So that's what I got so far. Hope you like it.


[size=9]Automatically Appended Next Post:[/size]
Oh and btw, if you were wondering why he costs so much just remember... He wants half... Haha, but yeah. He is probably worth his points. I just wanted to know if he is overpowered.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422464/3775994.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422464/3775994.page GMT
It would follow the Doomrocket for distance... 4 to 10 d6 with 3 6's having it roll on the misfire chart. It will turn to face direction desired for firing like a catapult. It would also only be able to fling up to 30 rats at a time (Rat Ogres take up 4 spots per Rat Ogre), when launched each rat upon landing will have to take a Initiative roll or die, no armor saves allowed.

If they land on another unit (friend or foe) Initiative checks must be made as normal for the falling rats and the unit/model they land on or suffer a hit based on the strength of the falling model, Rat Ogres hit harder when dropped than Clanrats. The falling unit also needs to be wounded by the unit they hit using the same method, strength of the unit on the ground used to wound the unit coming in. In case of mixed units use the strength of the most numerous model. (IE 6 Rat Ogres and 3 packmasters, use Rat Ogres strength) Place falling unit IN COMBAT, in any facing and/or direction to the unit landed on when you are done calculating hits per the large blast template for 20+ 20 mm, small blast for 8-19, and d6 for less than 8.

The unit can move into contact with the Ratapult and be fired in the same turn but the unit being fired cannot shoot at something themselves as they spend the time reforming and flying through the air. Only one unit a shooting phase can be fired, any amount of legal moves can be made to make the unit up to 30 20mm worth of models to be fired.

Hitting a building or another "unmoveable" object would be treated like a Doomwheel hitting a wall. D6 Strength 10 hits. *SPLAT* That would be for every model that lands on an object that is "unmoveable" (wall, tree, something with some structure) takes this hit.

It has the same profile as a catapult except it has 6 wounds just like it's cannon counterpart along with 2000 points out of your siege budget just like it's counterpart. Same restrictions as the ubber cannon, pre battle destruction on 4 6's, cannot fire pre-battle. The catapult is fired in the shooting phase, assuming the unit that is being fired is in base contact with the Ratapult. The whole unit must be able to go or none at all. Skaven are too cowardly to fly alone.

Misfire Chart:
1-2 : TWANG! The Ratapult collapses! Whole model is destroyed, remove it as a casualty. The unit inside must take a Initiative test to hop out before it falls on them.
3-5: Ratty TRICKERY! Someone has lodged a warpstone in the lever, the unit flies wildly off course! Opponent places unit anywhere within 3D6 inches of the Ratapult.
6: Rope SNAPS! Everyone looks around confused as rats are not flying through the air. Takes one turn to figure out who did not consult the Horned One on this trip.

I would love playtesting with this and feedback if you feel so inclined, or just general thoughts would be appreciated. Being a Blood in the Badlands item, it is not meant for tournament play and meant to be enjoyed reasonably. Wow I feel like I have to type stuff like "Caution: Coffee is HOT!!!" Enjoy fellow worshipers of the horned one and their foes (which is everyone even other Skaven players.)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422070/3769199.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/422070/3769199.page GMT
The Badass Beardman is a rather enigmatic character who strives to be as badass as possible in every endeavor. We know little of the Badass Beardman's past or personal life, but we can be pretty sure that it must be really badass. All decisions - be they day to day decisions or lifelong decisions - are decided on the criteria of badass. Because of this, everything about him is badass, from his dual katanas to his bare chest & bandana to the toughness and cool projected by his every practiced movement. Badass Beardman is a master of badass, and is said to be the most badass being in the entire world. Such is the amount of badass within Badass Beardman that it operates in a new dimension of badass, flowing out of his body in tangible currents. The energies of badass naturally flowing out of Badass Beardman's body causes his melee attacks to deal damage outside of the physical plane and are thus counted as Magic Damage. (Badass Beardman does not have the option to switch off this effect).
Much of the information on Badass Beardman's past is contained in the legend of how he tamed the Laserdon. One day, the Badass Beardman journeyed into a forest with his two katanas to practice being badass, attacking any woodland creature he spotted. The local villagers were terrified of approaching the forest for fear of a raptor that shot lasers out of its eyes, which had taken many of their bravest hunters as casualties and reduced their buildings to smoldering ruins on more than one occasion. Either Badass Beardman did not know of the Laserdon, or simply believed (as many did) that it was a myth. He strode through the forest with confidence, and every swipe of his katanas was incredibly badass to behold. Behold him the Laserdon did, enthralled by the ultimate badass of the Badass Beardman, like nothing it had ever seen before - for the Laserdon had never encountered anything badass enough to match its own level of badass. As Badass Beardman strode through the forest and performed new feats of badass, the Laserdon became more and more attached to Badass Beardman, the only being in the world as badass as itself (or perhaps even more badass). But suddenly, Badass Beardman fell upon a vicious pack of wolves, and surely would have died had not the Laserdon intervened and decimated the offending wolves with a flurry of lasers. In that moment, the Laserdon knew that it would protect and serve the Badass Beardman forever, and ran forward offering its back. And so on that fateful day Badass Beardman, the only being badass enough to match the Laserdon's badass, did tame the Laserdon.

M:4 --- WS:3 --- BS:0 --- S:3 --- T:3 --- W:2 --- I:1 --- A:2 --- LD:8

Troop Type: Infintry

Special Rules: Stubborn, Immune to Psycology

Equipment: Two Hand Weapons (extra attack included in stats)

Energies of Badass: Due the incredible badass naturally flowing out of his body and through his katanas Badass Beardman's attacks in close combat are counted as Magic Damage. Though this isn't actually magic, it still counts as magic damage because it is not strictly in the physical plane.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Mount: Laserdon................300 pts

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Laserdon. 

M:7 --- WS:3 --- BS:3 --- S:7 --- T:5 --- W:5 --- I:2 --- A:4 --- LD:9

Troop Type: Monster

Special Rules: Terror, Stubborn, Large Target, Immune to Psycology, 4+ Scaly Skin

Unstoppable Assualt: In the turn in which the Lazerdon Charges, every unsaved Wound that the Lazerdon inflicts using it's melee attacks allows it to make additional attack. 

Ultimate Predator: The Laserdon's bite is sufficient to dismember any prey, each unsaved wound caused by Laserdon's melee attacks are multiplied into D3 wounds.

Laserdon Mount: All hits are randomized as follows: 1-5 hits the Laserdon, 6 hits Badass Beardman. If the Laserdon is killed Badass Beardman is expected to have leaped off the Laserdon's falling body, ready to continue the battle on foot. If an attack kills the Laserdon, but not Badass Beardman, simply replace the Mounted Baddass Beardman model with the non-mounted one and continue the game without the mount. If Badass Beardman dies, the Laserdon, now having lost it's master (the only being Badass enough to ever tame it) reverts back to its natural instincts and has no team affiliations. If the Laserdon was in combat when Badass Beardman died then it is moved outside of combat at the closest position possible. From this point forward no player can control the Laserdon. During each player's movement phase it will attempt to charge the nearest unit that may be charged. The Laserdon when charging will now always charge to the center of the unit it is charging and will always target rank and file troops before champions, heroes, lords, etc. If there are multiple such units, and no rank and file troops remaining, the attacks will be distributed randomly. If the Laserdon is unable to charge any unit and is not already in close combat then it will move D6" in the direction of a scatter die. During each Ballistic Phase the Laserdon will now attack the nearest unit possible with its Laser Vision. Any player may attack the Laserdon.

Laser Vision: The Lazerdon's eyes are treated as a ranged weapon with the Range of 24" and Strength of 10 and fires an amount equal to the amount on an artillery die (miscasts meaning 0). The Laserdon may still attack with his Laser Vision even if he is engaged in close combat, and the Laser Vision may target the unit that the Laserdon is engaged with.

Overpowered? Overpriced? Any questions on special rules?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/421480/3758912.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/421480/3758912.page GMT WE) but the majority of the problems are just being able to abuse rules or Magic being to strong.

My group and I worked on a set of rules during a league we did, I'd like for some people to check them out and give us feedback. We'd really like to refine these and start using them for tournies etc. Anyways, here's what we have.

[i]1. No unit may be bigger than 50 models at the time of Army creation and no Army may contain more than 3 of the same Core unit.[/i]

This is intended to stop abuse from Horde armies like Skaven from just making blocks that are literally impossible to get through and laugh at you all day as they're Stubborn.

[i]2. Any "Test or Die" Spell inflicts a maximum of one Wound.[/i]

This prevents Dwellers, Purple Sun etc. from taking out big units of Monstrous Infantry, Characters etc. These spells are allowed to eat blocks though because that is their purpose. They have high casting values and bad ranges so there is no need to make them worthless.

[i]3. Rivers and Hills cannot be anything other than "ordinary".[/i]

Rivers and Hills decide way to many games for a piece of terrain. While the rest of the magical terrain is pretty low threat and adds fun flavor, these two types can absolutely lose a game. Not what the role of terrain should be.

[i]4. Rolling a 2-4 on the MIscast Table is instead treated as a 5-6, Miscasts only happen on double or more 1's and Irresistible Force doesn't exist.[/i]

This is the most iffy one. Losing a Wizard is no fun and has happened to everyone, there's no reason to lose a 300-400 point investment on some bad dice. However, not being able to stop a spell from going off can be just as costly as losing a Wizard. For this reason we decided to keep Miscasts punishing but not game ending and remove Irresistible Force. We've also discussed having Irresistible Force add a d6 to the casting value instead or some other, small bonus.

[i]5. Any Flank or Rear Charge negates Rank Bonus and Steadfast.[/i]

This is intended to make Cavalry, fighty Skirmishers and to a lesser extent Chariots more than completely useless. Blocks can laugh off anything that charges except a bigger block, which removes a lot of the positioning from the game.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So that's our list, so far it has worked pretty well. We've found our games are a lot less "Smash into each other and see who breaks" and more about jockeying for position. Games don't end because of one spell either way and no one has to deal with "lewl 5 blocks of 100 Slaves/Goblins/Swordsmen/Zombies.

So please let me know what you think. We try to avoid going after specific Armies or making anything to narrow. Although some things can be annoying like Hero spam, Deathstars, Monster spam etc. these can be played around and beaten without inhibiting the games fun.

Hope to hear some constructive criticism/feedback!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/420300/3737824.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/420300/3737824.page GMT As far as Magic Items go, I' hoping that Walach's Bloody Hauberk and the Blood Drinker stay, and that the Carstein Ring and Black Axe get relegated to Vlad/Krell only.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419502/3724176.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419502/3724176.page GMT GW decided that giving people spells like purple sun, pit of shades, and dwellers below would counter the blocks, sure they do, but most monsters happen to be I1 or I2 so they get boned by those spells too. Yes monsters got thunderstomp, which is great! But it's ASL and when a block is already striking first you don't always even get to stomp.

In order to give monsters a better chance in this edition I'd like to see this:
- if my toughness is double your strength, you wound on 7's. (a roll of a 6+ followed by a roll of a 4+)
- if I'd be slain outright by a spell, I'll take D6+1 wounds instead.

Now, I understand this means S2 wounds t4 on 7s, but that actually makes sense! Ogres should shrug off such blows.
I think that these rules better represent realism, for example, a rhino is likely T4, if I shoot a rhino with a bow, unless I hit it in the tiniest little spot (eyes etc...) it won't care. This is better represented by the 7 than 6 because often times you can throw buckets of S3 attacks at a monster and kill it pretty quickly due to monsters often having a 5+ save at best (stegadons are an exception as are GDs)

The second rule is less of a big deal, and really doesn't matter much to me now that the power scroll was fixed, because at least I can use a dispel scroll most of the time.

I don't think that wounding on 7's is too unfair because every army either has warmachines that can snipe monsters, magic that can smash them, poisoned shooting to kill them, or characters that can paste them. All this really does is make monsters have a better chance at doing what they should be doing, smashing the little guys.

What do you think? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419408/3722724.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/419408/3722724.page GMT GW will copy large chunks of it. I wonder what Dakka thinks of my take on it.

Orginal thread here:

[url=http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32025&p=741274#p741274]8th edition High Elf army book project[/url]



My take, based on changed to the Army Book.


[u][b]Page 43 Special Rules[/b][/u]

[b]Valour of Ages[/b] - no change.

[b]Speed of Asuryan[/b] - High Elf characters gain the universal rule [i]Always Strike First[/i]. High Elf units gain [i]Always Strike First[/i] [u]only[/u] against targets in the front arc and only on the first round of combat.

Once melee is joined and the ordered ranks are broken High Elves fight as well as any other elves, it is when the lines are intact or in the moments before a charge that the warriors of Ulthuan show their unique talents.

[i]Designers note - A much needed balance, yes its a reduction but a needed one. Universal ASF takes away a lot of the tactical play of the game, unless you have a lance or impact attacks there is no need to get the charge in against HE, they will strike first anyway. by limiting the special rule you can buy other benefits elsewhere. Also it makes sense, even High Elves get caught flat footed by flanking attacks, or at least they should do.[/i]


[u][b]Page 46 Arts of Saphery[/b][/u]

[b]Channeling.[/b] All High Elf magi (added later: and Dark Elf sorcerers) receive a bonus to channeling equal to their magic level. I.e. a level 2 High Elf Mage receives +2 to channeling attempts and thus channeling an extra power or dispel dice on a 4+.

[b]Master of Magic.[/b] All High Elf Magi gain the signiture spell of their chosen Lore for free in addition to the spells rolled.
[i]Designers note - This does mean there is no swapping further provision for swapping out of spells with a High Mage, the benefit of swapping is freely available. This is a logical extension that duplicates the current privilege given to High Elves using High Magic and expands it to fill with the signiture spells of all the other lores available.[/i]

[b]Loremaster.[/b] As per the Universal Rule. This is purchased in the Army list.

[b]Thaumaturge Apprentice.[/b] Level One High Elf Mage only. The Thaumaturge Apprentice gains two Signiture spells, one of each taken from any of the Lores available to High Elves. Any additional spell gained chooses a further Signiture spell from another Lore. The Thaumaturge Apprentice may benefit from only one Lore Attribute at a time.
High Elf Magi are taught to master all of the winds of magic, slowly one school at a time. However some Masters prefer to give their students a grounding in all the schools of magic before focusing on one. Thaumaturge Apprentice is a purchased upgrade available only to junior apprentice, other Magi are more advanced and focused in their study.
[i]Designers note - This is balanced because High Elves gain +1 spell anyway due to Masters of Magic/Drain magic. Thaumaturge Apprentice therefore will be a free option for a level one mage. You offset the ability to take the higher powered spells with increased versatility.[/i]

[b]Library of Hoeth.[/b] High Elves Archmages have a greater access to magical writings than any other race, and they balance the need to guard such knowledge carefully from outsiders while distributing access to privileged members at need. Any High Elf Mage can have any number of Arcane items so long as all but one item is a one use item, normal magic items price limits still apply.
[i]Designers note - This doesn't lift the item duplication limit, so you can only have one Dispel scroll in an army. But now you can have a Dispel scroll and another Arcane item, as you should. One item Archmages don't look right.[/i]


[u][b]Page 43,44 HIGH MAGIC[/b][/u]

CORRUSCATION OF FINREIR (Lore Attribute)
High Magic acts in symbiance with and opposition to the laws of nature. Only a High Mage can appreciate the paradox. When High Elf Magi draw in the winds of Magic the laws of natures are in part suspended, flames and rocks leap for joy while rain and dust dances in mad cavortations. The madly dancing rocks might not harm the Mage but are potentially hazardous to a mount or nearby companions, however the Mage is lifted bodily from the earth, only to settle unharmed and orderly once the magic passes.
When a High Magic spell is cast by a mage on foot the Corruscation of Finreir may be invoked. The Mage gains a 2+ ward save against all missile and melee attacks, but not spells. For the duration of the Corruscation the mage is considered a seperate target from his the unit for purposes of targeting with missiles or spells. This last until the following player magic phase, the character moves, takes an unsaved wound from any source or the corruscation saves a number of wounds equal to the mages Wizard level.

ISHA'S GENTLE TOUCH (Lore Attribute)
High Elves consider their Art a blessing from the Mother of the Elven race, it lingers briefly gently on their fingertips and in their hearts to be brought forth again at need. As a gentle magical residue it is completely incompatible with the boisterous magic of Corruscation of Finreir. Not even Teclis can wield both powers at once.
When a High magic spell is cast the residual magic remaining within the Mage may be used to power further spells, if the next spell cast this magic phase by the same Mage is cast with only one power dice the Broken Concentration rule (page 32 WFB) does not apply and the spell is cast if the casting result is met no matter how low the die result.

[i]Designers notes - This places two aspects of High Magic, a gentle or a furious application which are mutually exclusive and both pain a consistent colourful picture of the High Magic and those who wield it. The Corruscation of Finreir is an old spell now often emulated in the current editions models and should be reflected by the rules.
Corruscation is a lore attribute with some plus points and drawbacks, the mage cannot move without forfeiting the attribute, he is also a missile magnet. weapons that inflict multiple wounds still roll multiple wounds if they are saved by Corruscation as the multiple wounds may end the corruscation effect. Though any single shot doing so will not harm the mage. However what can harm the mage is a large volley of arrowfire, some of which is absorbed by the corruscation, but all is targetable at the mage. There will be times when this Lore attribute will do more harm than good.
Fortunately, those Ishas Gentle Touch provides an alternative. Not as powerful and showy but you can benefit from it from horseback etc. This attribute is balanced as while it allows reliable single dice casting it only occurs after a successful cast by the same mage, so it limits the number of spells you will get to use it with. Best used with an Archmage with a large number of low power spells.[/i]

[b]Drain Magic[/b] - Add to first line: (Signiture Spell)

[b]Shield of Saphery[/b]
Add: The Mage can choose to bolster the ward save to 4+. If he does so the casting value is raised to 11+.

[b]Curse of Arrow Attraction[/b]
Add to third line: re-rolled failed rolls to hit...., and gains Armour Piercing.
[i]Designers note - Boosts arrow fire, but doesn't further add to bolt thrower fire.[/i]

[b]Courage of Aenarion[/b]
Add: The Mage can choose to extend the range to 18". If he does so the casting value is raised to 13+.

[b]Fury of Khaine[/b]
Add: The Mage can choose to extend the range to 48". If he does so the casting value is raised to 12+.

[b]Flames of the Phoenix.[/b]
Add: The Mage can instead choose to target all enemy units within 6". If he does so the casting value is raised to 20+ and the spell does not Remain in Play.

[b]Vauls Unmaking[/b]
Add: The Mage can instead choose to target all enemy units within 6". If he does so the casting value is raised to 24+.

[i]Designers note - Spells extended in keeping with how it is done in 8th. Due to the sheer power of the last two spells multiple targeting has to be at a very short range.[/i]


Page 49 - Spearmen
[b]Martial Prowess[/b]
Replace last lines with: "This means they normally fight in four ranks, or three in the turn they charge."


Page 50 - Lothern Sea Guard
[b]Martial Prowess[/b]
Add: Lothern Sea Guard may fight in four ranks with spears, or three in the turn they charge, in addition they may Volley Fire will all their bows if they do not move in the movement phase"

[u][b]Page 55 - Swordmasters[/b][/u]
Add:

Lightning Strike
High Elf Swordmasters gain Always Strike First in all circumstances. On the first round of combat and against a melee target in the front arc their opponents forfeit the Always Strike First special rule if present against themselves and any character in the unit.

[b]Parry[/b]
High Elf Swordmasters are the finest practitioners of the martial arts anywhere in the Warhammer world. They may reduce their attacks by one in favour of a 5+ Ward save against melee attacks for the entire unit.

[i]Designers Note - No arrow cutting from 5th edition, White lions are the unit with the missile boost. Parry helps Swordmasters by giving them an option, two attacks or one attack and a ward save. The ward save should not be too good or it becomes a no brainer with deep formation Swordmasters, besides the idea that a Swordmaster can block attacks with a blade twice as well as someone with a sword and shield (Ward 6+) is enough.[/i]


[u][b]Page 57 - Dragon Princes[/b][/u]
[b]Dragon Armour[/b]
Replace last two lines with: "...addition, the model and its mount gain a 2+ save against breath weapons and Flaming Attacks."
[i]Designers Note - In keeping with the current FAQ.[/i]


[u][b]Page 62 - Dragons[/b][/u]
[b]Dragon Fire[/b]
Increase the Strength of the fiery breath for the Moon and Star dragons by +1 to S4 and S5 respectively.
[i]Designers Note - The Moon dragon is a standard dragon yet a standard dragon (for example Empire army Imperial dragon) has S4 breath if its breathes fire at all. Upgraded dragons breath S5 fire, though the one in the Warhammer FRB is bigger than a star dragon.[/i]


[u][b]Page 63 - Dragon Mage[/b][/u]
[b]Reckless[/b]
Replace last line with: "other High Elf Mages..., and are too impatient to channel magic as proficiently.

[b]Warrior Mage[/b]
Delete this entry entirely.


[u][b]Page 64 - Tyrion[/b][/u]

[b]Defender of Ulthuan[/b]
Add: Tyrion is used to facing even Greater Daemons, no spell or creature can faze him. Tyrion and any unit he joins is unbreakable and Tyrion cannot fail any Leadership or Initiative test he is forced to make. Finally Tyrion knows his soldiers and they know him, his Inspiring Presence is 18" radius at all times.

[b]Malhandir[/b]
Add: Tyrion may begin the game mounted on Malhandir or on foot. He may summon his steed or dismount during a High Elf turn at any time he is not in melee combat or surrounded. He may mount up before a charge or dismount to enter a building, Malhandir will remain nearby yet veiled from all enemy eyes. Malhandir while mighty is still a horse and is always considered as if based as a normal cavalry model with regards to targeting.

[i]Designers Notes - Tyrion does not run. For all his cool equipment there is little reason to buy him for an army. The autopass for I and Ld test may change that.
I envision Malhandir as a mystic summonable mount appearing at need, there are plenty of cases for this in fantasy. Shadowfax, the Rannihyn etc yet missing in Warhammer. While a neat touch it also adds versatility to Tyrion, you can start him off on foot in a line, and can mount him later. As you cannot give Tyrion a big monster giving him the flexibility to deploy as infantry or cavalry is a needed boost to give unique but not unbalanced power to this unique warrior.[/i]

[u][b]Page 66 - Teclis[/b][/u]

[b]High Loremaster[/b]
Replace sixth line with:
Whichever Lore he chooses, he knows all seven spells. However what sets him apart from other Loremasters is that Teclis can also immediately bring to mind and cast any of the Signiture spells of all the other Lores, though he can only currently embrace one Lore Attribute at a time.

[i]Designers Note - Versatility is the sign of mastery. Many wizards get to know all spells in their lore. Teclis needs more than that to show him off as what he is, the finest spellcaster in the Warhammer world, equal to Nagash himself. This does mean he can retain knowledge of fifteen spells at the same time, but then Nagash probably knows fourteen if he knows all the spells from Necromantic and Dark Magic combined.
I would like to make him a level 6 Wizard, but the rules dont really support that.
Note that this is less broken than it looks even Teclis is limited to what the Winds of Magic bring in and the Signiture spells are not to the ones to be feared.[/i]


[u][b]Page 89 HIGH ELF ARMY LIST[/b][/u]

We can completely depart from the increased percentages of Special and Rare choices. Instead many special choices will be decanted into Core. High Elves will use normal rules for army selection.


[u][b]Page 90 LORDS[/b][/u]

[b]Tyrion [/b] Points/model: 325

[i]Designers Note - I was careful not to make Tyrion more killy than he is but to add advantages to his generalship and a unique rule regarding his mount. Even so you can get a Ld10 general for a lot less, something has to give, and that is the pricetag. Especially with 8th being unit heavy Tyrion will not be a one elf slaughterhouse worth 400pts, and with a fixed magic item allowance Tyrion is vulnerable to character-killers with tailored item combinations.[/i]

[b]Teclis[/b] Points/model: 450

[i]Designers Note - While Teclis is worth his original points and I have upgraded him you can do a very good job for less, especially when the Loremaster Universal rule is put to expected use.[/i]


[u][b]Page 91 - LORDS[/b][/u]

[b]Prince[/b] Points/model: 130

[b]Mounts[/b] (change)
Griffon: 150pts
Sun Dragon: 200pts
Moon Dragon: 280pts
Star Dragon: 350pts
Tiranoc Chariot: 75pts
Lion Chariot of Chrace: 110pts

[b]Armour[/b](replace)
Light Armour and Lion Cloak: 8pts (gain +2 save vs shooting attacks)
Light Armour and Shadow cloak: 15pts (gain scout)
Heavy Armour: 6pts
Dragon armour: 9pts

[i]Designers Notes - The Prince is cheaper to offset the removal of discount magic items, High Elves now pay full price for Common items, some of the more expensive items still come at an effective discount. This logic is extended to the High Elf Noble also.
Large Mounts are cheaper in general, to keep with nwew policy. if an orc Wyveern is now worth 160pts, a Griffon is worth 150pts. I will be expecting this sort of pricing in the new Empire book. However even the Lion Chariot comes at a discount from the amended price because the replaced crew is a bigger loss than a Tiranoc charioteer because of the loss of a Ws5 S6 attack to make up for the character.
Lion cloaks can be taken, but only with light armour. Seperate Lion cloaks would need to be punitively priced otherwise every elf prince and noble would have one, and it would mess with mounted saves on steeds too much.
light armour and lion cloak are a package deal as there is no reason whatsoever to give a lord of any army light armour if better stuff is available.[/i]


[b]Archmage[/b] Points/model: 210

[b]Special Rules[/b] (add)
Channeler
Master of Magic
Library of Hoeth

[b]Upgrade[/b] (add)
Loremaster 50pts

[b]Mounts[/b] (change)
Sun Dragon: 200pts
Moon Dragon: 280pts
Tiranoc Chariot: 75pts

[i]Designers Notes - High Elf magi were overpriced, yes they are superior but any gobbo great shaman can start flinging nasty amounts of damage for as little as 140pts and its the magic not the staline that matters most for wizards. Loremaster brings the price right back up, and the Library of Hoeth access will normally mean most High Elf archmagi will end up near 350pts.[/i]



[u][b]Page 92 - HEROES[/b][/u]

[b]Noble[/b] Points/model: 80

[b]Mounts[/b] (change)
Griffon: 150pts
Tiranoc Chariot: 75pts
Lion Chariot of Chrace: 110pts

[b]Armour[/b](replace)
Light Armour and Lion Cloak: 7pts (gain +2 save vs shooting attacks)
Light Armour and Shadow cloak: 12pts (gain scout)
Heavy Armour: 4pts
Dragon armour: 6pts

[i]Designers Notes - Five point discount to balance magic items. The biggest change is the inclusion of a griffon. This is justified for three reasons, first to give the excellent Island of Blood model a more permanent place in our armies, second to delimit between dragons for mostly lords and hero mounts, third because Druchii can have a manticore for a their hero.[/i]


[b]Page 93 - HEROES[/b]

[b]Mage[/b] Points/model: 90

[b]Special Rules[/b] (add)
Channeler
Master of Magic

[b]Mount[/b] (change)
Tiranoc Chariot: 75pts

[b]Upgrade (choose one only):[/b] (change)
To a Level 2 Wizard... 35pts
To a Thaumaturge Apprentice... Free

[i]Designers Notes - Magi need a better relative discount, superiority came at too high a price and dispel scrolls etc are now full price and regular magi only get one arcane item. Warhammer overly favours cheap horde wizards of lesser races with stat based discounts.[/i]

[b]Dragon Mage of Caledor[/b] Points/Model: 300

[b]Special Rules[/b] (replace)
Valour of Ages
Speed of Asuryan
Reckless
Master of Magic

[i]Designers Notes - No real change, more importantly no opportunity to be a Thaumaturge Apprentice. Still gets two spells and a discount on the dragon though. The Dragon mage is considered too impulsive to be a good channeller.[/i]


[u][b]Page 94 - CORE[/b][/u]

[b]Archers[/b] Points/model: 8

[i]Designers notes - Here we come to the biggest single change, a massive drop in archer prices. Archers compared to human crossbowmen are about the same. In fact a human crossbowman offsets +1 to hit with +1 to wound which also benefitsd with armour saves. All told they are worth about as much. The superior leadership and statline of an elf can only go so far.[/i]


[b]Spearmen[/b] Points/model: 8

[b]Additional equipment:[/b]
Heavy armour +2pts per model

[i]Designers notes - Another discount, the loss of universal ASF hurts spearmen more than archers. Yes martial prowess causes them to fight in +2 ranks still. Heavy armour upgrade offsets what is lost.[/i]


[b]Lothern Sea Guard[/b] Points/model: 10

[b]Weapons & Armour[/b] (add)
Shield

[i]Designers notes - Bigger discount, shields as standard. Lothern Sea Gaurd were overpriced. the Volley Fire rule is now changed to they all get to shoot, otherwise deep ranks will be woefully uncompetitive compared to goblins with bows or Brettonian peasant.


[u][b]Page 95 - SPECIAL[/b][/u]

[b]Sword Masters of Hoeth[/b] Points/model: 15
[b]Special Rules[/b] (replace)
Valour of Ages
Lightning Strike
Parry

[i]Designers Notes - Speed of Asuryan is now limited for all except characters, Swordmaster get a special version which not only restores Speed of Asuryan in all normal circumstances but at times when other units get it, i.e. charging or receiving a frontal charge then the ASF of a Swordmaster trumps any other. This is not a flat rule, if you hit by get a dark elf assassin in the flank they will strike first.
Note that to adequately protect a Mage you will need to not add him to a corner but shield him within the unit. This can be bad news if he miscasts, but nothing will be able to hit the Mage without facing S5 greatswords first and a 5+ Parry ward save. Thus Swordmasters end up being able to do the job they are described as doing best, guarding the mages of Hoeth, without any specific rules for the purpose. It also explains why they are still 15pts.[/i]


[b]Phoenix Guard[/b] Points/model: 13

[i]Designers Notes - As a unit with staying power the loss of universal Speed of Asuryan hurts them, though with I6 it doesnt hurt them too badly. It still unlocks the opportunity to make the unit cheaper. Fear no longer requires outnumbering to work, but the second ability of a fear causing unit, the ability to resist fear is only of use if you have big weapons to destroy fear causing creatures. S4 halberds don't cut it though, so Phoenix Guard fear is of most use not being scared of skeletons, which is a waste for a 15pt elite model. 13pts is about right to make the units presence felt in the massed infantry days of 8th edition. [/i]


[b]White Lions[/b] Points/model: 12

[b]Foresters of Chrace[/b]
Any unit of White lions led by a character with a Lion Cloak is a Core choice. If the army general is wearing a Lion Cloak all units of White Lions becomes Core choices.

[i]Designers Notes - This unit more than any other feels the loss of universal ASF and thus benefits from an even bigger discount. White Lions are designed as either shock troops or a tarpit with teeth, ASF while potent blurred the lines of what the unit should do. They are not Swordmasters, so why make them like them.
There are plenty of opportunities to make White Lions core choices, which is justifiable as they are not really elite soldiers but common though experienced hunters with a battlefield reputation.[/i]


Page 96 - SPECIAL

[b]Silver Helms[/b]
Core choice.

[i]Designers Notes - No other change. As a Core choice they will see more play. The price is fair even with reduced ASF, they do what other heavy cavalry do, lance charge and soak wounds with a very good armour save. hitting first at s3 in the second round of combat wont cut it. The other reason to make Silver Helms core is to permit the return of the cavalry army theme.[/i]

[b]Dragon Princes of Caledor[/b]
Rare choice.

[i]Designers Notes - No other change. The other change to free up points for Special choices. Dragon Princes ought to be Rare anyway, this helps as there isn't much in Rare to compete with the points allowance but Special is somewhat crowded. So you should be able to afford some eagles bolt throwers and Dragon Princes easily enough out of 25% in most size games.
Price doesnt need to drop, the loss of ASF outside the charge is an irrelevance, first or last a handful of S3 attacks will not achieve much. Dragon Princes need to break their target and charge again.[/i]

[b]Ellyrian Reavers[/b] Points/model: 16
[b]Additional equipment[/b]
Bow... +2pts per model
Swap spear for bow... Free

[i]Designers Notes - Ellyrians were too expensive, in fact most light cavalry are, horse archery is especially expensive. Time to fix this I think, but keeping in mind Dark Riders, Pistoliers and Mounted Yeomen prices so we cannot be to generous.[/i]


[u][b]Page 97 - SPECIAL[/b][/u]

[b]Shadow Warriors[/b] Points/model: 13
[i]Designers Notes - The most overpriced junk in the army list. Shadow Warriors were way way too expensive for what they did, price needs to be comparable to the Druchii equivalent, with no surcharge for Speed of Asuryan, which will not save them if they ever have to melee and is useless when charging a war machine crew which are the only units they will melee by choice.[/i]


[b]Tiranoc Chariot[/b] Points/model: 75
[i]Designers Notes - The ten point discount is justified again because chariots should be judged by the impact attacks and reslience first and by the crew soft stats a distant second. Compared to an orc chariot of the same price the tiranoc chariot is inferior, in fact in terms of performance it is little better than a Goblin chariot costing 50pts. [/i]


[b]Lion Chariot of Chrace[/b] Points/mode: 120
[i]Designers Notes - The same principle applies. The lion chariot is again overpriced, its as resilient as an orc or chaos chariot but cost nearly twice as much as the former. Note that as a character mount it costs 110pts as the loss of a white lion is more serious than the loss of a Tiranoc crewman.[/i]


[u][b]Page 98 - RARE[/b][/u]

[b]Repeater Bolt Thrower[/b] Points/model: 75

[i]Designers Notes - With partial hits now being guaranteed and bargain basement gobbo spear chukkas costing a third of the price it is time to revise the points cost of the Eagles Claw and the Druchii equivalent. 75pts is about fair, they used to be 50pts at one stage, that was too low and was overcompensated for too much.[/i]


[u][b]Page 99 - VAULS FORGE & MAGIC WEAPONS[/b][/u]

[i]General Notes - As the Warhammer FRB Common items got larger, the Army Book selections are getting smaller. High Elves should not be reduced to under a dozen items like the Orcs have but some change will occur. the following items are those which should remain, where points are not mentioned, no change. By and large items have not changed much, as GW had a tendency to overprice many items even allowing for the expected High Elf discount. [/i]

[b]MAGIC WEAPONS[/b]
[b]Bow of the Seafarer[/b]
[b]Star Lance[/b]
[b]Reaver Bow[/b]
[b]The White Sword[/b]
[b]Foe Bane[/b]
Change to: "All hits on a Monster, Monsterous Cavalry or Monsterous Infantry will wound on a 2+."

[u][b]Page 100 - MAGIC ARMOUR[/b][/u]
[b]Golden Shield[/b] 30pts
[b]Temakadors Gauntlets[/b]
[b]Shadow Armour[/b] 20pts
[b]Armour of Caledor[/b]
[b]Helm of Fortune[/b]
[b]Mask of the Merlord[/b]

[u][b]Page 101 - TALISMANS and MAGIC BANNERS[/b][/u]
TALISMANS
[b]Vambraces of Defence[/b]
[b]Loremasters Cloak[/b]
[b]Talisman of Saphery[/b] 30pts
[b]Sacred Insense[/b]
[b]Guardian Phoenix[/b] 30pts
Change to: Gives the wearer and his mount a 5+ Ward save.
Designers Note - High Elves need a Ward save for a monsterous mount option.
[b]Amulet of Fire[/b] 15pts

MAGIC BANNERS
[b]Battle Banner[/b] 90pts
[b]Banner of the World Dragon[/b] 55pts
[b]Banner of Sorcery[/b]
[b]Banner of Arcane Protection[/b]
[b]Lion Standard[/b]
[b]Banner of Elyrion[/b]

[u][b]Page 102 - ARCANE ITEMS[/b][/u]
[b]Book of Hoeth[/b] 100pts
Change to: "Any spell cast by the Mage with this book will be cast with Irresistable Force on any successful casting roll which includes a double, but only suffers a Miscast if a double one is rolled."

[b]Vortex Shard[/b]
[b]Annulian Crystal[/b]
[b]Sigil of Asuryan[/b]
[b]Starwood Staff [/b]35pts
[b]Staff of Solidity[/b]
[b]Jewel of the Dusk[/b]
[b]Silver Wand[/b]

[b]Spell Scroll[/b]
[i]Saphery has a small industry of alchemists and artificers manufacturing spell scrolls for the armies of Ulthuan.[/i]
One use only. This item contains a memoire and part of the power for a spell from one of the eight Lores of Magic, High magic being too difficult to bind by this means. Choose which spell you wish up to a casting value of fifteen to have enscribed and pay twice its casting value in points. Each spell scroll is named after the spell it cast eg Scroll of Fireball or Scroll of Pha's Protection, thus more than one spell scroll can be included in an army so long as the spell scrolls are different.
The spell can be cast by the mage as if it were a spell known to him even if it is of a different Lore to one currently studied. The scroll provides one point per power dice used to cast the spell then crumbes into as dust and ashes in the release.

[u][b]Page 103 - ENCHANTED ITEMS[/b][/u]

[b]Null Stone[/b] 80pts
[b]Radiant Gem of Hoeth[/b]
[b]Ring of Fury[/b]
[b]Cloak of Beards[/b]
[b]Pendant of Vengeance[/b]
[b]Dragonhorn[/b]
[b]Ring of Corin[/b]
[i]Designers Note - Moved to Enchanted Items so a hero can cast it.[/i]

[b]Skeinsliver[/b]
Change to: High elf player may reroll when determining which player takes the first turn.

[b]Amulet of Light[/b]
[b]Talisman of Loec[/b]

I think thats covers it. Comments please.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/418018/3698891.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/418018/3698891.page GMT WoC list that allows the use of any mono god army which also allows for the mixing of Chaos gods.

[b]Updated 2012/11[/b]


[u]Eye of the Gods[/u]

[b]Characters:[/b] If a character kills a enemy character (including unit champions) or large target must roll on the eye of the table, if they kill a character in a challenge they may add or subtract one from the roll. Sorcerer must roll on the table if they kill a character or large target with a spell, character that receive 5 or more gifts must take a Toughness of test, if failed the character is turned into a Chaos spawn with a number of wounds equal to his remaining wounds, if marked the chaos spawn will bear the same mark.

[b]Units:[/b] A unit ( apart for marauders) may roll on the eye of the table if it successful wins a round a of combat on a roll of a 6+, add one to the roll if they break the enemy unit and a additional +1 if they catch the enemy unit. This replaces the will of chaos rule


[u]Special Rules[/u]

[b]Champions of the Dark Gods:[/b] Any model in the unit with this rule may issue and except challenges as if it was a unit champion.

[b]Enscrolled Weapons:[/b] A model with this special rule treats all its attacks as magical.

[b]Daemonic:[/b] Models are treated as having magical attacks, stubborn and have a 5+ wardsave, if the model already have a wardsave it is instead increased by one to a maximum of a 4+

[b]Daemonic Mounts:[/b] if your general is mounted on a daemonic mount the his leadership range is boost to 18" just like as if he was mounted on a large target, wounds upgraded to 3. Additional if you have a character riding a daemonic mount, chaos knights of the same mark may be upgraded to riding matching daemonic mounts (so if you include a hero on a jugger your chaos knights may be upgraded to ride juggernauts of Khorne)


[u]Army Selection[/u]

When selection of army the minimum core must bear the same mark as your general, if you general has the mark of Chaos undivided then your minimum core may have any Mark of Chaos.


[u]Marks of Chaos[/u]


[u]MoK[/u]

[b]Units:[/b] Units with the Mark of Khorne gain the frenzy special rule

[b]Characters and Chaos Spawn:[/b] In addition to the Frenzy special rule Characters and Chaos spawn with the Mark of Khorne also gain the killing blow special rule

[b]Warshrines:[/b] In additional to the normal mark of Khorne rules the giver of glory rule is replaced with "when a enemy targets a friendly unit within 12" of the warhsrine, you may add +1 to your dispel attempts, friendly units within 6" of the warshrine may reroll any rolls of a 1 to hit.

[b]Giants:[/b] No Marks



[u]MoN[/u]

[b]Units and Spawn:[/b] Units that bear the Mark of Nurgle gain the Regeneration 5+ special rule

[b]Characters:[/b] In addition to the regeneration special rule, characters that bear the Mark of Nurgle now cause fear, if they already cause fear they now cause Terror instead

[b]Warshrines:[/b] In addition to the normal rules for the mark of nurgle the giver of glory rule is replaced with "models within 6" gain the poison 6 special rule, if they already have the poison special rule then the unit/model causes poison hits on a roll of 5+ instead



[u]MoS[/u]

[b]Units:[/b] Units that bear the Mark of Slaanesh are immune to fear, terror and Panic, in addition to this they gain the strider special rule.

[b]Characters and Spawn:[/b] In addition to the above rules Characters and Chaos Spawn that bear the Mark of slaanesh gain the ASF special rule

[b]Warshrines:[/b] In edition to the normal rules for the Mark of Slaanesh the giver of glory rule is replaced with "all friendly models within 6" of the warshrine are now stubborn



[u]Mark of Tzeentch[/u]

[b]Units:[/b] Units that bear the Mark of Tzeentch must roll on the eye of the gods table at the start of the battlem this result may not be modified by any means

[b]Characters:[/b] In addition to the above rules, characters that bear the Mark of Tzeentch may be upgraded to a sorcerer, Exalted heroes may purchase up to two wizard levels while chaos lords may purchase up to four sorcerer levels at 50pts per level, Chaos sorcerers (not exalted or daemon prince) add +1 to their casting and dispelling attempts.

[b]Warshrines:[/b] In addition to the normal rules for the Mark of Tzeentch The giver of glory rule is replaced with "All Friendly wizards add +1 to their attempts to channel and all friendly bound magic adds +1 to the casting roll.



[u]Mark of Chaos Undivided:[/u]

Models that bear the mark f Chaos undivided my reroll failed panic tests.



[u]Magical Weapons[/u]

[b]Axe of Khorne:[/b] Great weapon. The model gains the killing blow special rule, if the model already has the killing blow special rule it is replaced with the heroic Killing blow special rule.
[b]Sword of Change:[/b] +1 Strength, every time a model takes a wound but is not slain they must take a toughness test, if the test is failed the enemy model is transformed in a chaos spawn
[b]Chaos Daemon Sword:[/b] The wielder is +d3 Strength (roll at the start of each round of combat), in addition, the model increases it attacks by +1 for every enemy character slain in a challenge, roll at the start of every turn the wielder is not engaged on close combat, on a roll of a one the the take a wound with no armour save allowed.


[u]Magical Armour[/u]

[b]Spelleater shield:[/b] Shield. Any spell that targets the unit will miscast on a roll of a double, any spell that suffers a miscast is lost for the remainder of the battle on a roll of a 6+
[b]Armour of Damnation:[/b] Chaos Armour. Any model attacking the wearer must reroll succesful to hit rolls, if the model can reroll to hit the two rules cancel each other out.
[b]Chaos Runeshield:[/b] Shield. Any magical weapon in base to base contact with the wearer is losers all it special rules and it treated as a mundane weapon of the same type


[u]Arcane Items[/u]

[b]Skull of Katam:[/b] The bearer counts as one wizard level higher than normal but is subject to stupidity for the remainder of the game


[u]Enchanted Items[/u]

[b]Helm of Man eyes:[/b]The model gains the always strike first special rule and stupidity special rule


[u]Magical Banners[/u]

[b]Banner of the Gods:[/b] The model bearing the banner causes terror, in addition, any chaos unit within 6" of the banner also gains the devastating charge special rule
[b]Rapturous Standard:[/b] Enemy models in base to base combat with the unit are at -1 WS, in addition a enemy unit may not make a stand and shoot charge reaction but may make all other reactions as normal


[u]Chaos Gifts[/u]

[B]Skulltaker:[/B] (MoK only)The hero now causes a killing blow on a 5+ instead of the normal 6+, this has no effect on heroic killing blow
[B]Chosen of Khorne:[/B] (MoK only)When the model issues a challenge he may force an enemy character to automatically accept his challenge providing the enemy model can actually move into base to base contact.
[B]Fury of the Blood God:[/B] (MoK only)The model may attempt to dispel spells as if a level 2 sorcerer.

[b]Stream of Corruption:[/b] (MoN only)Breathe weapon, models hit by stream of corruption must pass a strength test or suffer a single wound with a -2 save modifier
[b]Slime Trail:[/b] (MoN Only)The model and any unit he joins is with is treated as having no flank or rear for the purpose of combat res

[b]Aroma of Ecstasy[/b]: (MoS only)Enemy units/models in base to base contact with the character decrease their initiative value by 2
[b]Allure of Slannesh:[/b] (MoS only)Enemy models wishing to attack the character must first pass a leadership test on their unmodified leadership, if they fail the attacks are wasted


[b]Wind Changer:[/b] (MoT only)You may reroll the Winds of Magic dice, but the second result stands. 60pts
[b]3rd Eye of Tzeentch:[/b] (MoT only)The sorcerer may choose any lore from the warhammer rulebook, the sorcerer has gains the loremaster special rule. 35pts

[b]Diabolic Splendour:[/b] As Book
[b]Conjoined Homunculus:[/b] Once per turn the sorcerer may choose to add a extra D6 to his casting roll, this extra can cause a Irresistable force. At the start of his following turn the character must test for stupidity.
[b]Extra Arm:[/b] The character has an extra arm, this means he may wield a additional weapon for a extra +1 attack (unless wielding a magical weapon) or use a shield and a two handed weapon.
[b]Immortal Furry:[/b] The model is subject to the rules of hatred



[b][u]Units[/u][/b]

[u]Warrior Priest of Khorne:[/u] 100pts (this is going to be developed into a special character later on)

M:4 WS:6 S:4 T:4 W:2 I:4 A:3 :Ld

[b]Equipment:[/b] Chaos armour and hand weapon

[b]Magic Items:[/b] May take up to 100pts of magic items and 25pts of chaos gifts

[b]Special rules:[/b] Will of chaos, Champions of the Dark Gods, Mark of Khorne, Blood Priest

[b]Blood Priest:[/b] As a Priest of the Blood he may may attempt to dispel as if a level 1 one wizard, additional he may cast one power from the list below once per turn which is treated as a bound lvl 6 spell


1: all wizards (friend or foe) will miscast on any roll of a double
2: Unit is subject to Hatred in the following CC phase
3: Unit weapons gain the AP special rule
4: All spells in the following magic phase have their casting values increase by



Chaos Warriors: 14pts each

M:4 WS:5 BS:3 S:4 T:4 W:1 I:5 A:2 Ld 8

[B]Unit Size:[/B] 10+
[B]Equipment:[/B] Hand weapon, Chaos armour
[B]Special Rules:[/B] Champions of the Dark Gods, Mark of Chaos Undivided, Eye of the Gods
[B]Options:[/B]

Great Weapons + 2pts
Additional Hand weapons +1pts
Halberds +3pts
Shields +1pts
Standard + 15pts
Musician + 10pts

[B]Marks of Chaos:[/B] May Exchanged the Mark of Chaos undivided for one of the following:

Mark of Khorne + 30pts
Mark of Nurgle + 40pts
Mark of Slaanesh + 25pts
Mark of Tzeentch + 20pts

May take a magical Standard up to 50pts


[U]Chaos Knights:[/U] 35pts per model

Chaos Knight: M:4 WS:5 S:5 T:4 W:1 I:5 A:2 Ld8
Chaos Steed: M:8 WS:3 S:4 T:4 W:1 I:3 A:1 Ld:5
Daemonic Steed: M8 WS:4 BS:0 S:5 T:4 W:2 I:4 A:2 Ld: 8

[B]Equipment:[/B] Chaos armour, hand weapon, shields, barded steeds

[B]Marks of Chaos:[/B] May Exchanged the Mark of Chaos undivided for one of the following:

Mark of Khorne + 30pts
Mark of Nurgle + 40pts
Mark of Slaanesh + 35pts
Mark of Tzeentch + 20pts

[B]Options:[/B] Standard + 15pts , Musician + 10pts

Lances: 4pts Per model per model
Barded Daemonic steeds + 15pts per model (one unit in the army may be upgraded to ride daemonic steeds)

[B]Special rules:[/B]champions of the Dark gods, Eye of the Gods,



[u]Chaos Marauders:[/u] 6pts per model

Marauder M:4 WS:4 S:3 T:3 I:3 A:1 Ld:7
Champion M:4 WS:4 S:4 T:3 I:3 A:2 Ld:7

[b]Equipment:[/b] Hand weapon, shield, light armour

[b]Options:[/b] Standard + 15pts, champion +15pts Musician + 10pts

Model in the unit may be upgraded with the following

Great Weapons: 2pts per model
Flails: 1pts per model





Chosen Warriors: 18pts each

M:4 WS:6 BS:3 S:4 T:4 W:1 I:6 A:2 Ld 8

[b]Unit Size:[/b] 10+
[b]Equipment:[/b] Hand weapon, Chaos armour
[b]Special Rules:[/b] Champions of the Dark Gods, Mark of Chaos Undivided, Eye of the Gods, Enscrolled Weapons
[b]Options:[/b]

Great Weapons + 3pts
Additional Hand weapons +2pts
Halberds +4pts
Shields +1pts
Standard + 15pts
Musician + 10pts

[B]Marks of Chaos:[/B] May Exchanged the Mark of Chaos undivided for one of the following:

Mark of Khorne + 30pts
Mark of Nurgle + 40pts
Mark of Slaanesh + 25pts
Mark of Tzeentch + 20pts

May take a magical Standard up to 75pts


Exalted Champion of Chaos: 120pts

M:4 WS:7 BS:3 S:5 T:5 W:2 I:6 A:4 Ld 8

[b]Equipment:[/b] Hand weapon, Chaos armour
[b]Special Rules:[/b] Mark of Chaos Undivided, Eye of the Gods, Enscrolled Weapons
[b]Options:[/b]

Great Weapons + 4pts
Additional Hand weapons +4pts
Halberds +6pts
Shields +2pts

[b]Marks of Chaos:[/b] May Exchanged the Mark of Chaos undivided for one of the following:

Mark of Khorne + 30pts
Mark of Nurgle + 40pts
Mark of Slaanesh + 30pts
Mark of Tzeentch + 30pts

Barded Steed + 16pts
Daenomic Mount +40pts
Juggernaugt of Khone + 50pts
Rotbeast of Nurgle + 50pts
Disc of Tzeentch + 35pts
Steed of Slaanesh + 40pts
Chariot + 100pts

[b]Magic items:[/b] May take up to 50pts of Magic Items
[b]Chaos Gifts:[/b] May take up to 25pts of Chaos Gifts



Chaos Lord: 190pts

M:4 WS:8 BS:3 S:5 T:5 W:3 I:7 A:5 Ld 9

[b]Equipment:[/b] Hand weapon, Chaos armour
[b]Special Rules:[/b] Mark of Chaos Undivided, Eye of the Gods, Enscrolled Weapons
[b]Options:[/b]

Great Weapons + 6pts
Additional Hand weapons +6pts
Halberds +8pts
Shields +4pts

[b]Marks of Chaos:[/b] May Exchanged the Mark of Chaos undivided for one of the following:

Mark of Khorne + 30pts
Mark of Nurgle + 40pts
Mark of Slaanesh + 30pts
Mark of Tzeentch + 30pts

Barded Steed + 24pts
Daenomic Mount +40pts
Juggernaugt of Khone + 50pts
Rotbeast of Nurgle + 50pts
Disc of Tzeentch + 35pts
Steed of Slaanesh + 40pts
Chariot + 100pts
Chaos Dragon + 320pts

[b]Magic items:[/b] May take up to 100pts of Magic Items
[b]Chaos Gifts:[/b] May take up to 50pts of Chaos Gifts


Daemon Prince: 250pts

M:8 WS:8 BS:3 S:5 T:5 W:4 I:7 A:5 Ld 8

[b]Equipment:[/b] Hand weapon, Chaos armour
[b]Special Rules:[/b] Mark of Chaos Undivided, Eye of the Gods, Daemonic, Terror
[b]Options:[/b]

Fly + 20pts

[b]Marks of Chaos:[/b] May Exchanged the Mark of Chaos undivided for one of the following:

Mark of Khorne + 30pts
Mark of Nurgle + 40pts
Mark of Slaanesh + 30pts
Mark of Tzeentch + 30pts

Unless given the Mark of Khorne then the daemon prince may be upgraded to a sorcerer at 35pts per magic level up to a maximum of lvl4

[b]Magic items:[/b] May take up to 100pts of Magic Items
[b]Chaos Gifts:[/b] May take up to 50pts of Chaos Gifts


Chaos Warshrine: 120pts (rare)

Chaos Warshrine: M:- WS:- BS:- S:- 4 T:5 W:4 I:- A:- Ld::
Warrior Priest: M:- WS:5 BS:3 S:4 T:- W:- A:2 Ld:2
Chaos Steed: M:8 WS:3 BS:- S:4 T:- W:- A:1 Ld:-

[B]Unit Size:[/B] 1

[B]Equipment:[/B] Hand weapon, Chaos armour (crew)

[B]Crew:[/B] 1 Chaos warrior Priest

[B]Drawn by:[/B] Drawn by two barded chaos steeds

[B]Unit Type:[/B] Chariot

[B]Armour save:[/B] 3+


[B]Marks of Chaos:[/B] May Exchanged the Mark of Chaos undivided for one of the following:

Mark of Khorne + 30pts
Mark of Nurgle + 40pts
Mark of Slaanesh + 35pts
Mark of Tzeentch + 20pts

(note prices are temporary)
[B]
Special Rules:[/B] Giver of Glory, 4+ wardsave

[B]Giver of Glory[/B]

Bound spell (4), Select a chaos unit within 12" of the warshrine, that unit gets a free roll on the eye of the gods table.


being a mount for a sorcerer could be a very interesting idea, will have to see what other people think of that



Dragon Ogres: 65pts (?)

M:7 WS:4 BS:2 S:5 T:5 W:4 I:2 A:3 Ld 8

[B]Unit Size:[/B] 3+
[B]Equipment:[/B] Hand weapon, Light Armour
[B]Special Rules:[/B] Scaly skin (5+), Fear, Storm Rage,
[B]Options:[/B] Great Weapons + 10pts, additional Hand weapons +6pts

[B]Stormrage[/B]

Any lightning based attack targeted at a unit within 12" of the dragon ogres is directed at the dragon ogres instead on a roll of a 6+, work out the attack as normal, every wound causes actually restores a wound to the unit previous lost during the battle.


Dragon Orge Shaggoth: 240pts

M:7 WS:6 BS:2 S:6 T:6 W:6 I:4 A:5 Ld 9

[B]Unit Size:[/B] 1
[B]Equipment:[/B] Hand weapon, Light armour
[B]Special Rules:[/B] Scaly skin (5+), The will of chaos, Terror, Storm Rage, Immune to psychology, eye of the Gods, Ancient Promise
[B]Options:[/B] Great Weapons + 12pts, additional Hand weapons +8pts

[B]Stormrage[/B]

Any lightning based attack targeted at a unit within 12" of the Shaggoth is directed at the dragon ogres instead on a roll of a 5+, work out the attack as normal, every wound causes actually restores a wound to the unit previous lost during the battle.



Possible Khorne special character (arbaal) who allows chaos knights to ride juggers rather than daemonic steeds (he wont be riding a flesh hound anymore)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/417320/3686809.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/417320/3686809.page GMT
I'm thinking about buying the Tamurkhan on Toad Dragon model from FW. Now normally i'd probably just say that it was a counts as chaos dragon, but i just realized that there is a point cost and profile for a toad dragon in the tamurkhan book.
What would you say to using such a creature as a mount for a Nurgle WoC lord? It costs roughly the same as a normal dragon give or take ten points, and has significantly different stats and abilites. Would you allow me to do this in a game?
Is it too much of a stretch to allow characters to ride creatures they normally couldn't (granted there is some precidence for allowing it in this instance, in my opinion, because tamurkhan is riding one)?

I'd really like to be able to run the toadie because it'll mesh much better with the type of list i want to run, but i can totally understand if people wouldn't allow it.

i'd just like to know what Dakka thinks about this, if y'all think it's a fair way to play i'll go ahead and try to do it! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/417173/3683778.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/417173/3683778.page GMT
[b]Kislev Hold-Em[/b]

[b]What it is[/b]: Kislev Hold-Em is an alternate way to utilize magic within the core WHFB 8th edition rule-set. It is not meant for competitive play and is intended to add a bit of madness and chaos into an otherwise standard game of WHFB. There are multiple variations on how to play this scenario which will be given below.

[b]What You Need[/b]: A deck of WHFB Battle Magic cards or an equivalent way to randomize spell generation of the core 8th Edition Lores of magic (some ideas of randomizing will be given below).

[b]How It Works: [/b]

[b]Option 1: Creeping Chaos[/b]-Players generate magic, roll for scenario, and deploy as normal. At the end of deployment, but before the game starts, a deck of Battle Magic cards is shuffled and placed face down and to the side. At the start the first magic phase in each turn, the top card from the Battle Magic deck is flipped face-up and displayed to each player. This is a ‘communal’ spell and any player can utilize these spells along with their other, already generated, spells freely. Note that any spell that is ‘flipped’ in such a manner can be utilized by any army, regardless of restrictions put forth in respective Army Books. At the end of the game, there will be a total of five ‘communal’ spells in play. Spells cast from the communal pool add an additional +2 to their casting value


[b]Example:[/b] [i]A Skaven and a Tomb Kings player face off. The Skaven player takes the first turn. During the Skaven player’s magic phase, he/she flips a card from the Battle Magic deck face up. The ‘Fireball’ spell from the Lore of Fire is displayed. The Skaven player can, if he so chooses, use this spell along with his other, pre-generated spells should he so choose, even though his army book restricts him from using spells from the Lore of Fire. During the Tomb Kings players magic phase, no ‘flips’ are made. He/she can, however, utilize the Fireball communal spell in addition to his/her own, pre-generated spells. During the Skaven players following Magic phase, he/she will again flip another card from the Battle Magic deck. Thus giving two ‘communal’ spells for each player to utilize. The players will continue this process until the game ends.[/i]

[b]Option 2: Inquisitive Wizards Gone Wild[/b]- After players generate magic, but before they roll for scenario, a deck of Battle Magic cards is placed face down and to the side. For each wizard in each players list, a Battle Magic card is ‘flipped’ face up. These are the ‘communal’ spells and any player can utilize these spells along with their other, already generated spells freely. Note that any spell that is ‘flipped’ in such a manner can be utilized by any army, regardless of restrictions put forth in respective Army Books. Spells cast from the communal pool add an additional +2 to their casting value

[b]Example:[/b][i] A Skaven and a Tomb Kings player face off. The Skaven player’s list includes a total of three wizards. The Tomb Kings player’s list includes a total of two wizards. After generating their own magic, but before rolling for scenario, a total of five communal spells are flipped (3 Skaven wizards+2 Tomb Kings wizards=5 random spells)[/i]

[b]Options 3: Controlled Chaos[/b]-Players first determine a point value for their game. After point values have been determined, players generate spells as normal. Before rolling for scenarios, a Battle Magic deck is shuffled and placed face down. For every 1000 pts. Utilized in the agreed upon point value, a card is flipped face up. These are the ‘communal’ spells and any player can utilize these spells along with their other, already generated spells freely. Note that any spell that is ‘flipped’ in such a manner can be utilized by any army, regardless of restrictions put forth in respective Army Books. Spells cast from the communal pool add an additional +2 to their casting value

[b]Example[/b]: [i]Two players agree to play a 2000 point game. After generating their spells, but before rolling for scenario, a Battle Magic Deck is shuffled and placed face down. The players then flip two cards face up (2000 pts.=2 spells). These spells are communal spells and can be cast by any player in any subsequent magic phase[/i].

[b]Additional Notes: [/b]

-Spells cast from the communal spell pool NEVER benefit from their specific Lore Attributes.

-[u]Loremaster[/u]: If a wizard has the Loremaster attribute and a communal spell is flipped which is from the Lore of Magic that said Loremaster is utilizing, that wizard can attempt to cast the same spell twice; once from his ‘own’ pool of spells and another from the communal spell pool. A wizard must always attempt to cast the spell from his ‘own’ pool first before trying to cast the duplicate spell from the communal spell pool. Duplicate spells cast from the communal pool add an additional +3 to their casting value and will not benefit from their lore attribute.

[b]Example[/b]: [i]A Lizardmen players list includes a Slann with Loremaster: Lore of Light. During the flip phase, the spell, [u]Banishment[/u] is flipped. The Slanns first attempt to cast [u]Banishment[/u] will be cast at the regular value (10+) and will benefit from the Lore of Light Attribute: Exorcism. During the same phase, the Slann attempts to cast [u]Banishment[/u] again, this time from the communal pool. This version of [u]Banishment[/u] will thus have a casting value of 13+ and will not benefit from the Lore of Light Attribute: Exorcism[/i].

-Communal spells which would result in a wizard knowing duplicates of the same spell (due to the communal spell pool generating a spell which the wizards already previously generated) follow the rules given above for the Loremaster Attribute.

[b]Example[/b]: [i]A Level-2 Empire wizard generates spells from the Lore of Beasts. He generates the Spells, [u]The Amber Spear[/u], and [u]The Flock of Doom[/u]. During the flip phase, the spell, [u]The Amber Spear[/u], is flipped. The Wizards first attempt to cast [u]The Amber Spear [/u]will be cast at the regular value (9+) and benefit from the Lore of Beasts Attribute: Wildheart. During the same phase, the Wizard attempts to cast [u]The Amber Spear [/u]again, this time from the communal pool. This version of [u]The Amber Spear [/u]will thus have a casting value of 12+ and will not benefit from the Lore of Beasts Attribute: Wildheart.[/i]

-Armies which do not include wizards can still freely attempt to cast the communal spells. Armies which choose to do so will not receive any bonuses to their casting attempts and will never cause an Irresistible Force (there is no wizard to actually harness the magic. Thus meaning there is no focal point for the magical energy to condense.) Consequently, armies with no wizards can never miscast.

-Dwarves: Special attention must be given to Dwarves. Being a race that despises magic does not necessarily mean that they do not see the potential benefits of utilizing magic every once in a while. A Dwarf player can choose to cast spells from the communal pool like any other army. If he/she does so they will gain a +2 to their casting attempt as if they had a level 2 wizard in their army. If a dwarf player chooses to cast spells during their magic phase, they forfeit the ability to dispel spells with their +2 bonus to dispel until their next magic phase (they were trying so hard to successfully cast magic during their last magic phase that they’ve essentially exhausted their ability to steel themselves against the effects of magic). Spells cast from the communal pool by Dwarves never cause Irresistible Force and, consequently, can not miscast.

[b]Other fun stuff to try out:[/b]

[b]Miscasts[/b]: Wizards going above and beyond their regular abilities open themselves up to the more dangerous and corrupting effects of the Winds of Magic. Wizards that miscast while casting spells from the communal spell pool must roll on a separate, distinct miscast chart shown below:

Communal Spell Miscast Chart: Roll a D6 and consult the table below.
1.) The Wizard’s risk with pushing his magical abilities beyond their normal means has caused him to bite off more than he can chew. The Winds of Magic sweep him away. Remove the wizard from the game.
2.) The Wizard’s unfamiliarity with the attempted spell has wracked his mind to the point of collapse. So much so that he is mentally exhausted. The Wizard is subject to Stupidity for the rest of the game. These Stupidity tests are done on the wizards unmodified leadership and can not benefit from the Hold Your Ground nor the Inspiring Presence special rules.
3.) In attempting to go beyond his familiar spells, the Wizard has opened his mind up to the other wizards on the battlefield. One of the Wizards generated spells is added to the communal pool (determined randomly).
4.) The Wizard is pleasantly surprised at the effects of the unfamiliar spell. The Wizard must swap one of his own generated spells for the spell which caused the miscast. Thus, placing one of his spells into the communal pool and replacing that spell with the communal spell which caused the miscast. Example: A wizard casts Glittering Globe from the communal pool with Irresistible Force and miscasts. He rolls a four on the miscast table. He must then swap one of his own, generated spells, with Glittering Globe. Taking Glittering Globe out of the communal spell pool and replacing it with a spell from his own pool of his choosing.
5.) The Winds of Magic fill the wizard with supernatural strength, agility, and fury. The Wizard is subject to Frenzy. In addition, the Wizards Initiative and Strength are increased by +2. Wounds caused by the wizard inflict D3 wounds. He can not cast or dispel spells until he loses Frenzy. If he does lose Frenzy, then he also loses the bonus to strengh and initiative.
6.) The Winds of Magic blow with incredible force, creating a veritable gale of magical energies. Flip another card from the Battle Magic deck into the communal spell pool.

[b]Utilize Army Lores:[/b] For more insanity, players can opt to add specific Army magic Lore’s into the communal spell deck. To do so, simply add the army lore magic cards into the communal deck. High Elves casting The Dreaded 13th? Oh the insanity!


If you do not have a Warhammer Magic Deck, you can generate spells using 2d10. Having two different color d10's may help. Nominate one d10 to be the first number and another to be the second. Assign each spell a designated number and roll. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/416861/3678375.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/416861/3678375.page GMT

Type of Ship:

Sloop: 300 points
Wounds 20
Toughness 8
Movement 30
Number of Turns 4
Cannon Ports: 2
Crew Capacity 40

Galleon: 400 points
Wounds 30
Toughness 8
Movement 25
Number of turns 3
Cannon Ports: 6
Crew Capacity 50

Longship: 150 points
Wounds 15
Toughness 7
Movement 30
Number of turns 6
Cannon Ports 0
Crew Capacity 25
Long Oars

Deployment:
Set the four identical table edges and mark them as so, North, East, South and West. Roll off, the winner of the roll off may pick one of the four table edges to start from, their opponent chooses the opposite edge.

Head Winds:
At the beginning of the game (but after deployment) roll and consult the chart below to see which way the wind is blowing.
1. North
2. East
3. South
4. West
5. No Wind
6. Magic Winds

If you are moving away from the table edge where the wind is coming from you will receive +5 to your movement. Vessels facing this direction must move at-least 5” during a turn.

If you are moving towards the table edge that the wind is coming from you will receive –5 to your movement.

Wind has no effect if coming from the side.

Magic Winds: All wizards add +2 to their channeling attempt. Also all vessels count as moving with the wind.

At the beginning of each game turn besides the first roll a D6. On a roll of a 1 the winds have changed, roll on the table and apply the new result.

Ramming: If during the movement a vessel comes into contact with another vessel it counts as ramming. During the combat phase first work out 2D6 S8 impact hits against each vessel. Then the ramming vessel may pick a boarding part just like if they where assaulting a building. If the attackers win the defending crew suffers 2D6 wounds distributed as shooting (Treat these wounds as S5 for the purposes o saving throws). If the defenders win they may choose to assault the ramming vessel or move 2D6 inches directly away.

Magic Phase: A wizard may cast from any point on the ship. Ships are not affected by hexs and augments, though warmachines and crew may be targeted as normal. Spells that would just remove the ship (such as Dwellers and Pit of Shades) have no effect against the vessel.

Fire!!: Shooting Phase is worked out as normal. Any models that can shoot may shoot from anypoint on the ship. This does not apply to warmachines who must be attached to one of the cannon ports. Units may fire at the vessel or the crew, though any crew counts as being behind hard cover.


Upgrades:
Ramming Prow: 50 Points
A vessel with a ramming prow deals an additional D6 S8 impact hits.

Demonic Possession: 150 Points (Beastmen, Deamons of Chaos, Warriors of Chaos)
A vessel with this upgrade may once per game may double its movement but may not turn during any point of this movement as the demon screams forward.

Iron Bound: 25 Points (Dwarves)
A vessel with this upgrade has a 3+ armor save.

Ramshackle: (Skaven)
A vessel may pay any amount of toughness at the beginning of the game to add D6 wounds to its profile, adding 1D6 for each point of toughness paid this way.

Sleek Hull: 50 Points (Elves)
A vessel with this upgrade ignores any negative wind modifiers.

Long Oars:
A vessel with long oars may add +1 movement for each crewmember to a total of +10. Models manning oars may not cast spells, shoot or defend against assault.

Universal Special Rules:
Flammable:
All vessels are flammable
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/416033/3664680.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/416033/3664680.page GMT FoC and allow for some new varients for different types of tribes.



First up, an attempt at a Hunter themed army list.

[[size=18]b]Beast Tamers.[/b][/size]

There are some tribes in which Hunters are less lonesome then in others, in some cases the Tribe's Tyrant may be a former Hunter. Tribes such as these are well known as both proficient hunters as well as tamers of great beasts and they will have a great profusion of beasts both large and small in their caravans of war.

[b]Lords[/b]

Tyrant: In addition to his normal options, a Beast Tamer Tyrant has the following options,
May purchase a Harpoon Launcher for 10 points
May ride a Mournfang for 60 pts
May ride a Stonehorn for 250 pts

Slaughtermaster

[b]Heroes[/b]

Bruiser: In addition to his normal options, a Beast Tamer Bruiser has the following options,
May purchase a Harpoon Launcher for 10 points
May ride a Mournfang for 50 pts

Butcher
Firebelly
Hunter: In a Beast Tamer army, Hunters lose the Loner special rule


[b]Core units[/b]
Gnoblars
Ogres
Ironguts: In a Beast Tamer army, Ironguts gain the following option,
May swap their Great Weapons for a Chaintrap and a hand weapon for no additional cost. They may also purchase an ironfist for 3 pts per model.

[b]Special units[/b]

Sabretusks: In a Beast Tamer army, the Special limit on Sabretusks is doubled. So under 3,000 you can have up to 6 units of Sabretusks. In a Grand Army, you may have up to 12.

Harpooneers: A rough equivilant to Leadbeltchers, harpooneers are instead armed with harpoon launchers.

Stats: same as leadbeltchers. Cost 40 pts each, Unit Size: 3+, Equipment: Light Armor, harpoon launcher, hand weapon. Options: Champion 10 pts, Bellower 10 pts

Yhetees
Mournfang Cavelry
Gorger

Rare units

Rhinox Chariot:

Cost: 200 pts

Unit size: 1 chariot
Crew: 2 Ogres
Drawn by: 2 Rhinox
Equipment(Ogres): Hand weapon, Great Throwing Spears
Statline: M(6) WS(3) BS(3) S(5) T(6) W(5) I(2) A(6 from Rhinox, 6 from crew) Ld(7) Note: crew attacks are Str4
Troop Type: Chariot(4+ armor save)
Special Rules: Fear, Large Target, Scythed

Options: Both ogres may swap their Throwing Spears for Harpoon Launchers for 30 points

Gnoblar Scraplauncher
Giant
Thundertusk
Stonehorn]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/415638/3657935.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/415638/3657935.page GMT
I believe he can be on the mount and use any of his huge array of weapons, just wanted to double check. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/415132/3648908.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/415132/3648908.page GMT
Rules for toad dragon, no idea how much it would cost.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/t/tamurkhan.pdf

If I remember right, rules for rotbeasts were
Chaos knight (40) +15

->monstrous cavalry, 2 wounds, 5+ regenerate.

The rotbeast it self has
M-WS-BS-S –T-W-I-A
7 -2 -0- 4---4--2-2-2
+5 regenare

I'm not sure, but making calculation, that 55 pts - 16 pts (warrior with shield) - cost of magic weapon (?)= rotbeast's cost

Plus is base size of fenbeast, great taurus and lammasu same as bloodchrusher's?
And base sizes of exalted greater daemons of forgle world?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/413655/3622729.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/413655/3622729.page GMT
after the release of the new Beastman rare choices, we are all once again reminded of how awful they are in-game. Now the models themselves aren't actually that bad and so it strikes me as a shame that they will be used so rarely. With that in mind, I've given some thought to updating their rules to make them more appealing to the average Beasty gamer.


[b]Ghorgon[/b]- 250pts

M7, WS4, BS0, S6, T6, W6, I3, A6, Ld10

[b]Frenzy, Immune to Psychology, Large Target, Stubborn, Terror, Bloodgreed, Regenerate (6+)*.[/b]

[b]Swallow Whole- [/b]- All of a Ghorgons close combat attacks gain the Killing Blow Property, as the foe is devoured in a spectacularly messy frenzy!
[b]Strength from Flesh[/b]- Each time the Ghorgon scores a Killing Blow, roll a dice. On a 4+ it immediately regains a wound. This may not take it above its starting value.
[b]Bloodlust*[/b]- While Frenzied, a Ghorgon has a 6+ Regenerate save. If this evolves into Bloodgreed, the save increases to a 5+. When benefitting from 2 or more 'levels' of Bloodgreed, this is a 4+ save. All saves are lost should the Ghorgon ever lose his Frenzy.


[b]Cygor[/b]- 235pts

M7, WS2, BS1, S6, T5, W6, I3, A5, Ld8

[b]Immune to Psychology, Large Target, Magic Resistance (2), Stubborn, Terror, Magical Attacks.[/b]

[b]Ghostsight[/b]- When fighting enemy Wizards, Undead, or any model with some sort of magical weapon, magical attacks or a ward save, the Cygor may reroll missed attacks.
[b]Hurl Attack[/b]- A Cygor may shoot as if it were a Stone Thrower, with no minimum range and Magical attacks. It may move and shoot, but not march in the same turn. If a Misfire is rolled, the Cygor suffers a single wound. If the template is aimed at a magical enemy (See Ghostsight), you may reroll the scatter dice.
[b]Soul-Eater[/b]- Any wizard within 24" of a Cygor will suffer a Miscast if they roll 2 or more '1's when casting a spell. The spell automatically fails and will not benefit from Irresistable Force.
[b]Magical Invigoration[/b]- The Cygor has a Ward save depending on how heavily the winds of magic are blowing. After rolling for the Winds of Magic, the Cygor gains a Ward Save. This will last until the beginning of the next Magic phase. 2-4 dice give no save at all, 5-8 dice give a 6+ save. 9-11 give a 5+ save, and 12 gives a mighty 4+ save!


[b]Jabberslythe[/b]- 220pts

M8, WS4, BS4, S5, T5, W5, I3, A5, Ld9

[b]Fly, Immune to Psychology, Large Target, Poisoned Attacks, Terror.[/b]

[b]Aura of Madness[/b]- Each unit within 12" of a Jabberslythe at the start of the Beastman magic phase is faced with a wave of insanity. Roll 2D6 and subtract the units Ld, ignoring any bonuses from Inspiring Presence. The unit will suffer this many wounds, ignoring armour saves.
[b]Slythey Tongue[/b]- The Jabberslythe has a shooting attack with Range 12", S5 and the 'Sniper' property.
[b]Spurting Bile Blood[/b]- For every wound a Jabberslythe suffers in close combat, the unit who inflicted it will suffer an immediate S5 hit. This is randomised as shooting. If it should suffer more wounds than it has remaining, they will still generate hits.
[b]Hard to look at[/b]- All attacks against the Jabberslythe, in both shooting and close combat, suffer -1 to hit.
[b]Rank hide[/b]- The Jabberslythe has a 5+ armour save.



These are the *second* draft of the rules. As well as a slight points decrease, they have been slightly tweaked and generally more suited to their roles. The Ghorgon is a blender, rolling lots of attacks and inflicting carnage. If he survives into combat, he also becomes fairly self-sustaining, with the possibility of regenerating any damage in an orgy of bloodshed. The Cygor turns into a genuine threat to enemy mages, and punishes the trend of throwing 6 dice at every spell. The Jabber becomes a useful disruption tool, negating Inspiring Presence and having its Aura unaffected by enemy characters.
They have also become more durable in general, with each boasting some type of Armour, Ward or Regen as necessary.



Any thoughts from you?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/413387/3618147.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/413387/3618147.page GMT WS6•BS5•S4•T3•W3•I4•A3•Ld8

Wargear:
Duellist’s Pistol
Duellist’s Rapier
Light armour

Duellist’s Pistol
A duellist’s pistol is only used in combat, and has no ranged value.
In combat, it counts as an extra hand weapon.

In a challenge, the Duellist may choose to shoot his opponent before the fight begins.

Duellist’s Rapier:
Gives +1 to WS and I during a challenge, and a 5+ ward save



Special Rules:
Dueller
“If our swords do cross this battle…”

Dueller:
An empire duellist must always issue and accept challenges. In addition, he re-rolls all failed rolls to hit and to wound, even with his pistol.

“If our swords do cross this battle…”
If the duellist is carrying the Duellist’s Rapier, he may choose a single lord or hero model in the opponents army. When the dueller issues a challenge to a squad that this lord or hero is in, the Chosen model MUST accept the challenge.

There is no way of avoiding this challenge, and all special rules and equipment to the contrary are ignored.

Options:
The Duellist may:
Take heavy armour – 3 points
Full plate armour – 10 points
Exchange his rapier for…
A shield - 2 points
A second Duellist’s Pistol – 5 points
Exchange his Duellist’s pistol for…
A shield – 2 points.

NB: the model may only have a single shield.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/413089/3613069.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/413089/3613069.page GMT
There are quite a few units with this added to their points allocation, one or two per book, usually the cheapest most expendable available: zombies, warhounds etc. I can see how, in 7th edition where the core requirements were met by number of units rather than percentage of army, this was a useful rule. It's was to ensure that cheesers didn't bring 2 minimum units of the cheapest core type and then load up on all the flashy stuff, for lack of a better term. I feel that the GW change in army composition, specifically the 25% minimum core percentage has effectively engineered a solution to the problem that this rule was created to remedy. However, unlike normal outdated concepts that are overlapped by their usurping format, this rule actually further hinders the use of these units by forcing any army they are used in to include a higher minimum percentage of core. Not a big drawback, but a slightly uneven field.

What are peoples thoughts on this? Something i am overlooking? Alternate takes on the purpose or execution?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/413052/3612688.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/413052/3612688.page GMT GW terrain generator?

I'll fix what ailes you right here and now.


You can either choose which table to roll on ahead of time, or randomly choose which table you will roll on.



Countryside Table. D6+1 terrain features. roll on the table below.

2D6 roll

2-4: Marsh

5-6: normal Hill

7: Forest(further D6 roll, on a 1 its Mysterious)

8-9: River(further D6 roll, on a 1 its Mysterious)

10-11: D3 fences/hedges

12: Settlement (D3 Buildings, Grail Chapel, D6 fences/hedges)



Deep Forest Table. D6+2 features

2D6 roll

2-5: Mysterious Forest

6-7: normal Forest

8: Mysterious River

9-10: Hill

11: Arcane Architecture(chart in BRB)

12: Encampment (D3 Buildings, 1 Watch Tower, D6 barricades)



Mountain Table. D6+1 features

2D6 roll

2-4: Mysterious River

5-6: Mysterious Forest

7: Scree Slope

8-9: Hill

10-11: Arcane Architecture

12: Watch Tower




More to follow]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/412564/3603916.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/412564/3603916.page GMT 2D6 to see if disease breaks out. If you get 1-4 it does. 5-12 it doesn't. If your troops are effected by disease they can only move half. However if in close combat that Squad should count as having poison weapons. What do you think? :question: ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/407999/3522916.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/407999/3522916.page GMT
This is one of the best unofficial army books I've read because it's well balanced and full of character and warrior soul. Inspired by Viking mythology the Grim Squeaker (the author) has really injected the fearless spirit of the Norsemen. Highly Recommended.

All feedback welcome.

[url=http://battlereporter.blogspot.com/2011/10/tribes-of-norsca-new-wfb-army-pdf.html]Tribes of Norsca Review and Links[/url]
[img]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FvMS3Y6Tpng/Tqc7UDSecFI/AAAAAAAAOjY/FopGk-1j1rw/s800/tribes_of_norsca_big.JPG[/img]]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/407155/3507516.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/407155/3507516.page GMT
Fimir were a somewhat mysterious one-eyed, mace-tailed, part daemonic race that existed way back in Warhammer mythology (up to the 3rd edtition). JanvanHal from the Battle Reporter forum has done a fine job resurrecting them in this 1st release - which is well balanced and playable.

If you'd like to contribute to the development, Jan is particularly looking for help with the layout and the English, then please contact Jan or post here. All feedback welcome.

[url=http://battlereporter.blogspot.com/2011/10/fimir-new-fantasy-army-pdf.html]Fimir Army Book Review[/url]
[img]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-O4VTXfrpM3E/TqiZnU1CZqI/AAAAAAAAOk8/-_F4D3iZQPE/s800/fimir_unofficial_warhammer_army.JPG[/img]


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/407154/3507481.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/407154/3507481.page GMT
The lore has 3 magic missiles and 1 DD currently. This means they can't be used if the caster is in melee. Horrors, when gaining spells, get all 4 of those spells. Which means if they are engaged in melee, they can only cast 1 spell at all, which is their least efficient one if you're in a low point game (not surrounded by fighting). The point cost to be able to get them high enough level to cast those spells is 462 pts (including standard/musician/champ). That's going to be the lion's share of your Core points for just about any game up to around 1500pts.

Further, every other mega spell in the BRB is a DD of some kind.

At the very least, Firestorm should be DD.

*********************

This came up as I was thinking about a low point army using horrors and I realized as soon as they were engaged, they basically couldn't cast. Considering most of their damage would come from those spells, it's just too easy to shut down half my points and turn them into 3/3 overpriced wusses.

This differs from, say, archers in that horrors have to all be in 1 mass to get those bonuses. And you have to take that incredible amount to get that high a lvl. 15 or less and you only have 1 spell, a magic missile. And that would still cost ~250pts for a "lvl 1 Wizard."]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/406995/3504282.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/406995/3504282.page GMT Whilst playing with my friend, we noticed that models are removed when they reach T or S 0,
Promptly I cast The Withering on his Dragon Princes and roll a six for the toughness reduction, leaving them at T0.
This cant be fair, to destroy a unit of very good cavalry with a single 10+ spell.

So I propose that the spells that reduce strength and toughness be limited to a minimum of one.

Comments/Criticisms welcome.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/406058/3485209.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/406058/3485209.page GMT
I have made an alternative way of resolving magic in 8'th and I wanted to share it you. These changes to magic will make magic scale much better, improve the incentetive to include more low-level wizards in your army and casting more but weaker spells.


[b]1. Resolve number of power and dispel dice[/b]

Roll for winds of magic: The casting player starts the magic phace by rolling 2d6 dice. The highest die determines the number of power dice, and the lowest die determines the bonus to a wizards casting result. When the dice is rolled, don't pick the dice up, It's good if you can refer to the dice, if you should forget them.

The shared power pool: The casting player gains the same number of power dice in his shared power pool equal to the highest number shown of the winds of magic. Every wizard can use power dice from the shared power pool. Only three power dice may be used to cast a single spell

The personnel power pool (channeling): Wizards also get there own pool of power dice which only the wizard who channeled them can use. To see how many power dice the wizard channels, he rolls a number of dice equal to 1+wizard level. The number of dice which rolls 4+ is added to the wizards personnel power pool.

For example, a level 2 wizard channels worth of 3 (1+2=3) dice. He rolls a 1, 4 and 6. This will give a total of 2 power dice, since three dice rolled 4 or above, which only he can use. In addition he may use any number of power dice from the shared power pool (he may still only take 3 dice from the shared power pool to cast a single spell).

The shared dispel pool: The dispelling player gains a number of dispel dice equal to half the total number of the 2d6 winds of magic.

Channeling dispel dice: The armies wizard are also able to generate some dispel dice for the army to use, this however is a bit harder than actually producing power dice itself, since it's easier to harness magic than disrupting it. The wizard must roll a number of dice equal to 1+wizard level. The number of dice which rolls 6 is added to the shared dispel pool.

[i]For example: An army with a level 3 and a level 1 wizard is going to generate dispel dice. First the casting player rolls for winds of magic and he rolls a 2 and a 4 adding them together gives 6. The dispelling player gets 3 dispel dice, since the half of 6 is 3. Now it's time for channeling dispel dice, and since he has a level 3 and a level 1 wizard he may roll 6 dice (1 + 1 + 1 + 3 = . He rolls 1, 1, 3, 4, 4, and 6. Since he rolls 1 six he adds 1 dispel dice to the shared dispel pool for a total number of 4. [/i]

[b]2. Cast[/b]

When the winds of magic and the channeling have been resolved it's time for the casting player to cast spells with his wizard(s).

Choose number of power dice: When the spell and the target have been decided the caster must choose how many power dice much be used to cast the spell. A minimum of 1 must be chosen, and the wizard may never choose more than 3 dice from the shared power pool. A wizard may maximum use 6 dice to cast a single spell.

Casting value: All the power dice used are added together, and then add the lowest die from the winds of magic. This bonus from the winds of magic can't exceed the wizard level, however. If this value equals of exceeds the spell's casting value, the spell is cast successfully (though it might get dispelled by the opponent). If the total of the unmodified dice does not equal 3 or more the spell fails automatically.

Broken concentration: If the wizard's spell doesn't succeed in casting a spell the wizard's concentration is broken. The wizard may not add the lowest die from the winds of magic to his casting result for the rest of the phace.

Irresistible force: If a wizard rolls more than two unmodified sixes when determining his casting result, the spell has been cast with irresistible force. This means that the casting result is doubled for that spell, but the wizard is also subject to a miscast. This may be avoided as described below

Miscast: If the wizards cast a spell with irresistible force he must roll 2d6 and refer to the miscast table.

Avoiding miscast and irresistible force: Potiential wizards may try to avoid an irresistable force and a miscast. A wizard may roll a wizard test (which equals 4+wizard level) to avoid an irresistable force or a miscast. If he succeds the spell is completed normally without a miscast or irresistable force. If he fails roll a d6. 3-6 the spell is cast with irresistable force and a miscast as normal, 1-2 the spell fails, but the wizard still suffers a miscast

[b]3. Dispel[/b]

Choose wizard: The dispelling player choose a wizard to attempt the dispel. If no wizards can attempt the dispel or the dispelling players chooses so the army can attempt the to dispel the spell. Any wizard on the dispelling player's side battlefield can be chosen to dispel the spell. The dispelling player then decides the dispel power of the wizard. A wizard has a total of dispel power equal to his wizard level. The chosen dispel power is added to the dispel result. A wizard can be norminated to dispel more than once, but he can never add more to dispel result than his wizard level through the enite phace. For example a level 4 wizard may add +3 to one dispel attempt and a +1 to another dispel attempt.

Choose number of dispel dice: Any number of dispel dice can be chosen from the shared dispel pool.

Dispel value: When the wizard and the number of dispel dice has been chosen, the dispelling player rolls all the chosen dispel dice and add them together with the chosen dispel power of the wizard.

[i]Example: The dispelling player nominates a level 3 wizard and 3 dispel dice to dispel the opponents fireball spell, which scored a 13 on it's casting result. He chosses to only add +2 from the wizards power, since he want to use the +1 bonus for a later spell in that phace. He then rolls the dice and add them together for a total of 12. This is not enough to dispel the fireball spell, but since he gets a +2 for his wizard, he then gets a total of 14 and there by dispels the spell. [/i]

Dispelling with irresistible force: If the wizard rolls more than three similar unmodified dice when determining his dispel value, the spell has been cast with irresistible force. This means that the dispel result is doubled for that spell.

Dispelling when the army have no wizards: If the army has no wizards, the army gets +1 to all the dispelling attempts.


Spell resistance also protects against hexes.
Level one and two wizards may roll d3s instead of d6s when rolling for spells.


Please comment :)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/405731/3479346.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/405731/3479346.page GMT
I'd give them regular human stats, but L8 and hatred (since they are angry at the people who killed their menfolk). I'd also say that they're especially blessed of the lady so they always get the 5+ ward. Units of knights within 12 inches would be stubborn (since who wants to run in front of you're old buddy's wife).

As for equipment, I'd give them heavy armour and a greatsword (surely most of the "widows" have to be QK widows, no? So they just get a spare greatsword that their hubby left around).

At 11 pts each, I think they'd be competitively priced. (maybe 12?)

If you wanted to, you could also have different levels of widows --

"Errant" widows could have frenzy, hw/shield
Realm widows could have hatred, L8
Questing widows could have hatred, GWs, re-roll panic
and Grail Widows could have hatred, and magical attacks

Thoughts? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404994/3466149.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404994/3466149.page GMT

Siege battle:

Armies: choose your armies as normal from the Warhammer rulebook. The attacker has twice as many points to spend as the defender.
Terrain: a castle is placed on the defenders side of the table making one of the table edges impassable terrain. Otherwise you may have as much or as little terrain as you wish.
Deployment: the defender sets up 1st placing any infantry or monstrous infantry models on the walls, towers or gatehouse of the fortress. Any models not of either of these types must be placed in the castle courtyard.
The attacker then places his units on the opposite table edge to the castle within 12” of the edge.
First turn: The attacker always goes 1st.
Game length: Game length: Starting at the beginning of turn 5 and rolling again in each players turn before anything else roll a D6 and add the turn number you are currently on, if your total is 10 or greater the game comes to a end.
Victory conditions: Both sides award themselves 3 points for controlling a tower, 2 points for controlling the gatehouse, 2 point for controlling a wall and 4 points for controlling the courtyard.
The attacker gains 2 points for every broken door within the castle and 4 points for breaking in the fortress gate. The defender gains 2 points for each destroyed battering ram and 4 points for each destroyed siege tower.
If the attacker scores highest they win, if the defender scores highest or they score a draw they win.

Special rules: many…:

- The attacking army may choose any of the following upgrades for any infantry or monstrous infantry unit that uses equipment (ogres, spearmen, archers etc can but war hounds, knights, giants etc can’t )
A ladder +50 points per unit.
Grappling hooks +5 points per model for infantry.
Grappling hooks +10 points per model for monstrous infantry.
Battering ram +100 points, only 1 allowed per 1000 points in the army.
Siege tower +250 points, only 1 allowed per 1000 points in the army.

- The defending army may choose any of the following upgrades for any infantry or monstrous infantry unit that uses equipment (ogres, spearmen, archers etc can but war hounds, knights, giants etc can’t )
Flaming arrows +10 points per model, only usable by troops with bow weapons.
Stones +5 points per infantry model.
Stones +10 points per monstrous infantry model.
Boiling oil +100 points, only 1 allowed per 100 points, only 1 allowed per wall, tower or gatehouse section.

- The castle gate is T10, W10, has a 1+ save and magic resistance (2).

- Any war machines able to fit may be placed in a tower.

- Any war machines unable to fit in a tower must be placed in the castle courtyard and may fire over the walls as long as they have a minimum distance in their range, they must however double and scatter rolls as they cannot see the enemy and must make more guesses.

- Any war machines able to move (either under their own power or by being pulled) must be placed in the courtyard and are able to pass through the castle gates, even if the model looks too big to fit.

- Any attackers unit with a model within 4” of the gatehouse may attack the gate in the combat phase normally. If the attacking unit has a battering ram only the 1st rank of the unit may attack.
Any hits against the gate hit automatically.

- A chariot may charge the gate if it wishes but any impact hits caused by the chariot on the gate are also caused on the chariot itself at it’s own strength.

- The gate is immune to killing blow, heroic killing blow and poisoned attacks.

- Units that belong to the player controlling the courtyard, or belonging to the defender if the courtyard is in dispute may move through the gate in their own movement phase reforming on the opposite side of the gatehouse but cannot move further that turn.
If any unengaged and non fleeing attackers are within double their movement value of the gate when the defenders pass through they may also pass through it by running after them before the gate can close.
If they are able to pass a initiative test using the units most common initiative to test on.
If they fail their test move them towards the gate at their normal movement allowance.

- The castle walls, gatehouse and towers cannot be damaged in any way by any attacks either magical or mundane, they are too heavily built and well protected by magical wards.
Only infantry and monstrous infantry may claim and defend a wall section.
Only infantry, monstrous infantry, beasts, large targets and flyers may attack a castle section.
The walls, gatehouse and towers grant anyone stood on them magic resistance (3) against spells from the other player as long as the spell caster is not also on the castle section with them.
Roll separately for each spell that affects them.

- Any models in the courtyard of the allowed type may move onto the walls and any unit on the walls may move into the courtyard in the last part of their movement phase.

-The side that controls the castle section has +2 to their armour save and gains the always strikes first special rule on the turn they are charged by a enemy using grappling hooks, ladders, the courtyard stairs or possessing the large target special rule but not from enemies attacking from a siege tower.

- Combats on the walls are fought by any models within 2” of a enemy or within 4” if they are equipped with spears.
Tests for psychology such as fear, terror and stupidity are taken normally by each side but break tests are not taken as the defenders have nowhere to run to and the attackers are too busy to even consider a retreat.
The only way to enter a tower is through the doors on the battlements, by flying models and by grappling hooks if the attacking model has a unmodified strength of 5 or greater.
Defending characters may pass through the doors without restriction in the same way as units passing through the castle gates but may not move further in the same turn.
Attacking characters can only pass through the doors after they are destroyed or they pass their initiative test to follow a defender.

- Tower doors are T6, W4 and has a 4+ save. Doors are immune to killing blow and to poisoned attacks.
Heroic killing blow may be used to smash them open if the attacker has a strength of 5 or greater.

- The courtyard is the open section of the castle behind the gatehouse.
Models of any type may fight in the courtyard but models with the large target special rule cannot pass through the gatehouse unless they also possess the fly special rule.

- Models entering play after the battle has begun either by flying, digging, being created, being summoned or any other means cannot be placed on any castle section but may arrive in the courtyard if the owning player wishes them to do so.

- Flaming arrows may be equipped to any model with any form of bow. Hits from flaming arrows are of course flaming attacks.

- Stones may be equipped to any infantry or monstrous infantry model on the walls, gatehouse or towers as long as they are normally allowed to carry weapons of some kind. Stones count as throwing weapons from page 91 of the Warhammer rulebook.

- Boiling oil can be bought for any unit of infantry or monstrous infantry on the walls or the gatehouse but not the towers.
Only 1 cauldron of boiling oil may be placed on each castle section and can only be moved if 4 infantry models or 2 monstrous infantry models are within 2” at the start of their movement phase.
To use the boiling oil their must be 2 infantry models or 1 monstrous infantry model in base contact at the start of the shooting phase.
The boiling oil may be used as a charge reaction if you wish but the firing unit may use no other missile weapons on the same turn.
Place the large round template at the base of the castle section in front of the cauldron and roll the scatter dice to see how close it is to the target, if you roll a misfire you have failed to pour the boiling oil this turn.
Any model under the template takes a automatic S5 hit which ignores armour saves which causes D3 wounds per successful wounding roll.
The boiling oil is a one use only item.

- Ladders may be equipped to any infantry or monstrous infantry normally allowed to carry equipment.
The ladder requires 4 infantry or 2 monstrous infantry models to carry it.
The ladder is raised when the attacking unit is in base contact with the castle section.
One model may immediately climb the ladder onto the battlements of the castle and begin to fight the defenders, for each wound the attacker causes in the combat phase he may bring 1 monstrous infantry or D6 infantry models onto the battlements with him.
If the attacker is slain by the defender or he fails to cause any successful wounds he is placed back in his unit and may try again in his next turn.
If the attacker is forced to return to his unit the defenders may try to push away the ladder at the end of their own turns combat phase as long as they are not in combat with any other enemy by taking a strength test for each model within 2” of it.
If they pass the test the unit carrying the ladder is mover directly back D6” and takes D3 S2 hits from the falling ladder but may attack again in their next movement phase if they wish.
If a ladder is raised onto a empty wall section the attacker may claim it and bring up D3 monstrous infantry or 2D6 infantry models in each of his movement phases until they are all up or a combat begins.

- Grappling hooks may be bought for any unit of infantry or monstrous infantry normally allowed to carry equipment.
When the unit is in base contact with the castle section take a unmodified strength test for each model in the front row, each model that passes is immediately placed onto the wall.
Any attacker that fails to cause at least 1 successful wound is placed back into his unit at the end of the combat phase as he is fought off by the defenders.
Those that fail their tests are left at the base of the wall, the front rank is filled in from models coming from the rear rank.

- If you have a unmodified strength of 5 or greater you may attempt to use your grappling hooks to sale a tower instead using the same rules as above.

- Battering rams require at least 8 infantry or 4 monstrous infantry models to push them into battle.
The battering ram is T6, W6, A-D3+1 for each model in the units front rank within 4” of the gate, has a 3+ save, magic resistance (2), +2 armour to the unit pushing it and is flammable.
When you attack the castle gates with a battering ram you add +2 to your strength (+4 on the charge) and cause D3 wounds per successful wounding roll.
Any missile hits against the unit are resolved in the same way as a ridden monster on page 105 of the Warhammer rulebook, hitting the battering ram on a 1-4 and a unit member on a
5-6.
At any point in your movement phase you may choose to disregard the battering ram and continue on without it, if you do so any other unit (friend or foe) with sufficient models of the correct type may take control of it by coming into base contact with it.
The battering ram cannot be taken through the castle gates once they are destroyed.

- Siege towers require at least 12 infantry or 6 monstrous infantry models to push them into battle.
The unit pushing the tower cannot march unless it contains at least double the required number of troops to push the tower.
Up to 8 infantry or 4 monstrous infantry models may be placed in the towers top at the start of the battle or at any point during the owning players movement phase, the warriors in the towers top may charge onto the battlements (but not towers) of the defenders castle during the charge portion of their movement phase.
The defenders gain no bonus defences to attacks from troops attacking in this way.
Once the troops on the towers top are on the battlements you may place the same number again in the top from the pushing unit ready to charge in their next turn.
The tower has T8, W8, a 2+ save, magic resistance (3) and is flammable.
If the defenders manage to kill all of the troops attacking the battlements in the attackers turn and all of the troops waiting in the towers top as well in their own combat phase they may choose to make a free move into the tower top themselves in which case they gain the normal defence bonuses against attacking models coming up the towers ladder as if it were a ladder onto the battlements with the exception that far more models are able to attack them in each turn.
If the number of defending models in the unit is 8 or less they must abandon the wall if they wish to enter the siege tower.
Only defending models in the tower top are able to attack the tower itself from the battlements.
Any troops on the ground and in base contact with the siege tower may choose to attack it as long as they are not in any other combats at the time (live enemies are more important than a moving tower).
Any models in the towers top when it is destroyed must pass a initiative test or suffer D3 hits at their own strength or their own strength +1 if their save is 4+ or better.
Place any survivors back into their unit afterwards.

- Flying models can attack any castle section they wish and the defenders gain no bonuses against them.
Flyers cannot claim castle section unless they are infantry or monstrous infantry able to fly for some reason.
Any model possessing both the fly and large target special rules must use the rules for flyers.
To represent the efficiency of flyers attacking castle sections the attacking army must pay double points for any units able to fly and add 200 points to the cost of any monsters able to fly.

- Any models with the large target special rule may attack defenders on wall sections and the gatehouse as long as it is in base contact with the castle section.
The defenders gain their normal bonuses when fighting a large target.
Any defenders on the wall section may be attacked by a large target.

Defenders on the wall may attack a large target as long as they are within 4” of it or they were attacked by it during the attackers turn.

- Castle sections are controlled if they are occupied by only infantry or monstrous infantry models from one side.
If models from both sides are on any section it is in dispute and cannot be claimed by either side.
The courtyard uses the same rules as the other castle sections with the exception that all unit types may fight to claim it.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404580/3457170.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/404580/3457170.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/403810/3442308.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/403810/3442308.page GMT
If Firebellys are the priests of the Firemouth, Flamelords are its prophets. Flamelords are only revealed perhaps once every two or three generations and their coming is a sign of woe for all enemies of the Volcano god. The nature of the revelation is different, some revelations have come about when the chosen Firebelly has slipped and fallen into the bowels of the Firemouth itself, others have happened when under assault by an enemy wizard who channels the power of fire, but the end result is unmistakable. The Firebelly's skin is wreathed in flame, his very blood turns to Magma and his skin becomes as a cooled lava flow. He has become an Avatar of the Firemouth.

Flamelord 400 points

M6, WS4, BS3, S4, T5, W5, I3, A4, Ld8

Troop Type: Monsterous Infantry(Character)

Equipment: Hand Weapon

Magic: A Flamelord is a Level3 wizard who uses the Lore of Fire.

Special Rules: Flaming Attacks, Ogre Charge,

Avatar of the Firemouth: A Flamelord is the chosen of the Volcano God, a living lava flow, his appearence terrifying to behold. Flamelords cause Terror and have a 4+ ward save, this save is increased to 2+ against flaming attacks.

Fire Breath: Firelords have a Str5 Breath Weapon with the Flaming Attacks special rule.


Options:

May upgrade to a Lvl4 wizard for 35 points

May choose to be armed with one of the following,
Additional Handweapon 2 points
Great Weapon 9 points

May take magic items worth up to a total of 50 points

Firebellies and Flamelords may choose to be mounted on a Giant Fire Beetle for 75 points
If this option is taken, the models unit type is changed to Monsterous Cavelry

Giant Fire Beetle 50 points
M7, WS3, BS3, S5, T5, W1, I3, A3, Ld5

Equipment: Crushing Mandibles and Hooked legs(hand weapon)

Special Rules: Fear, Impact Hits(1), Strider

Bombardier Sacks: Giant Fire Beetles have glands on the end of their abdomen that contain 2 fluids that, when mixed in air, explode in a most forceful manner. Bombardier Sacks are a shooting weapon with the following profile,

Range 6", Str4, Poisoned Attacks, Multiple Shots(D6)

No penalties are ever taken when firing Bombardier Sacks, its nearly impossable to avoid a spray of toxic fluid.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/402984/3426738.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/402984/3426738.page GMT I would love to see Nagash in the game again laying waste to regiments at a time with magic. Or sigmar with his hammer making a giant hit himself. Aenarion with the sword of khaine casually slapping aside greater daemons as he walked along. Even something like allowing you to use real dragon princes in a high elf army instead of the modern elves that dress up there horses and pretend to have a dragon. I would like to see Malekith from when he was like Tyrion and Teclis combined after the end of the daemon invasion, for that matter I would like to see rules for the ancient army of Nagrythe that was instead of there weakling descendants in Naggaroth. Rules from the spirit of grunini airship from the Gotrek and Felix books would be brilliant. Finally if I was going to make something to go in a ancient, epic army I would start with the original vampire lords and immortals some of which served Nagash, particularly Abhorash who fought and defeated a great fire dragon in a duel atop a mountain before drinking it's blood and freeing himself from the weaknesses of vamprism.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/402921/3425327.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/402921/3425327.page GMT The weapons like swords and hammers actually did something and the access to even light armour would drive people into a frenzy.
The magic items while still there are as rare and hard to get as they should be rather than just throwing them at you like in the main game.
The special characters were well thought out and interesting (but there was never anyone for the undead)
After seeing dreadfleet i'm sure they could make mordheim now far better than they did the last time including plastic scenery this time unlike the less than brilliant cardboard scenery from the last time]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/402486/3417753.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/402486/3417753.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/402484/3417692.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/402484/3417692.page GMT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheel_of_Time

Anyway, my plan is to create a system using Warhammer Fantasy rules that represents the different factions of the Wheel of Time world and the titanic battles that rage across it. However, I need help. I would welcome any suggestions the good WoT fans of Dragonmount have, and together we can make WoWH (Wheel of WarHammer) great! :thumbsup:

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/402178/3412495.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/402178/3412495.page GMT
If any of you folks are still hesitant to download the file, send me a PM and I'll send it to you via one.


[size=9]Automatically Appended Next Post:[/size]
Oh, looks like I forgot to change some stuff. All Core troops should have BS4 or lower. Special are the same, except Eternal Guard and Waywatchers; they have 5's.

We had them starting out at BS5 for a bit, instead of ignoring various penalties, since it was simpler, but I'd rather keep things as close as I can to the current book. Though BS5 is a lot simpler than BS4-but-ignore-this-and-that. The Mathhammer shows it to be a big difference, though. Not sure if the Wood Elves need that kind of help. Not yet.

Okay, the more current version is the lower one. A few questions:

- would giving Dryads a 6+ Scaly Skin save be worthwhile? I don't think it would do much at all, but the question is: is the loss of simplicity, of streamlined rules, worth it?

- Eternal Guard. In this incarnation, they're WS/BS5 with spears, shields, and Stubborn. Beyond that, they're Glade Guard for +3pts. Would halberds be better than spears and shields? It would fit the idea that most Guard-type units use halberds. But do you think they're reasonable? Good? Should they be able to run from a fight like the other units?

- Wild Riders. A 4+ Ward save, Frenzy, and the ability to continually back down from combat so they get to keep using their spears. How much should these guys cost. A 4+ Ward is often amazing, but they'll still fall faster to Goblins and Free Company faster than any knight. Would it be better if, as long as they had Frenzy, they couldn't flee from combat? That would make sense to me.

- War Hawk Riders. What if they had two wounds, same price? T3, with a 5+ save, on a big ol' base, for 30pts. 2 Wounds would make them a little tougher to bring down via small-arms fire, but the things that will tear through them like tissue paper will still do so. Whaddaya think?

Any other comments would be welcome!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/401902/3407493.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/401902/3407493.page GMT
http://issuu.com/m4cr1ii3n/docs/warhammer_armies_-_kingdoms_of_ind]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/401610/3402513.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/401610/3402513.page GMT CC since they dont have "ranks" even though they are ranked, I would imagine skirmishers fighting in more loose combat formations such as say the difference between drilled roman legions going against mobs of celts who can surround the romans.

So my idea is this, skirmishers always have fight in additional ranks much like that HE rule, which can be combined with spears/etc.

Feel free to shoot this idea down or critique it]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400996/3392031.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/400996/3392031.page GMT