According to those who have read the new Chaos 'dex the rules for the lash of submission allow a choas player to move his (or her) opponents models. Now I don't know about you but I'm not keen on the idea of any chaos player being allowed by the rules to touch my finely painted minis with their clumsy greasy paws! So I've started this poll to see how other people are going to handle this. Thoughts anyone?

The rule says the opponent can force the move. The rule does not say the opponent gets to physically do the moving. No way Jose

Could you confirm this one for me - I was under the impression that the lash holder made the move hence allowing them to bunch up models for template weapons, expose power fists/ squad leaders to a charge etc. etc.

yes... while you're invoking allah.. could you make sure your unit fits under this barrage template for my Fzorglelord? thanks that's awesome right there... *Vindicator*

>

1) The rule says nothing about my opponent being able to get his gribbly fingers on my minis.

2) Even if it did that would be painfully irrelevant. I will place them exactly how my oponent wants them placed. But I will be the one doing it. My gaming comrades would not move each others minis, and anyone else I wouldn't trust regardless.

>>> A psyker may use this psychic power in the Shooting phase instead of using another ranged weapon. Pick any non-vehicle enemy unit visible to the psyker and within 24", and then take a Psychic test in order to use the power. If the test is successful, the target is moved 2D6" by the Chaos player. This move is not slowed by difficult terrain, but dangerous terrain tests are taken as normal. Victims may not be moved off the table, into impassable terrain or within 1" of enemy models. After this, the affected unit must take a Pinning test. <<<

(my bold) I don't have the 'dex so can't check - is the quote I've copied here accurate?

Or what its saying is that there really is no consensus on the topic so the smart player is not going to stupidly try to paw someone else’s minis. I must note unless there are some minis across the table and they are offering to help move them I’ve never had this issue come up (from an opponent, grubby bystanders is a different deal).

And clearly its not the usual gaming buddies I’d be worried about.  Frankly since I’m the one with the chaos boys I’d be the offender in question  

Back when my father played Fantasy, he had a beautifully painted model of Eltharion the Grim.  He spent I believe about 40 hours painting the model.  Hand carved the base from plaster, even put his own blood into it when he sliced the tip of his finger off.  The model was a true peice of art, and product of love.

One day at the shop we played at, he was over on the other side of the store talking with some friends when he hear's "Oops." followed by a crashing sound.  To this day, I do not know how my father restrained himself from inserting this guys head into his rectum.

As for the topic, I'm pretty cool with allowing people to handle my models.  I've been playing this game long enough to know that no matter what precautions you take, something will always happen, so I don't worry about it to much.  I've paid to have my armies painted, but they aren't Golden Demon work, so it's not that much to worry about.  Most players out there have enough respect to be gentle, and for those who don't you can always "accidentely" knock their own prized model off the table.

Posted By jamy on 08/25/2007 1:18 PM
just dont touch my models without asking, ever. xD it p**ses me off so much, and as to people trying to move models aftering being asked not to, i usually stop playing, and if the guy really is an as a refuses to give the model back after ive asked him to put it down (has happened to me, im afriad : /) then things get interesting

...?? What he beat you up?......thats harsh, first he steals you miniature right in front of you, and then beats you to within an inch of your life......I don't think I'd ever play again after that!

just kidding...

"Posted By skkipper on 08/22/2007 12:26 PM
may game night is in a bar. I have to be very tolerant. but when a hottie comes over and handles my boys. it makes it all better. "

A very interesting bar indeed. However, I doubt severely that a “hottie” has ever picked up your miniatures and after reviewing some universal truths about women and miniature gaming in general only two outcomes will be possible.

First, that a hottie picked up your miniatures without any level of condescension or ridicule, which would be a miracle of the highest order, only because she was drunk, on a dare from her buddies to go and mess with the nerds at table 6, or looking for the ladies room.

Or secondly, that it just never happened, and the comment was an attempt to make those of us who wish for others not to touch our miniatures feel silly that we wouldn’t let a sweet hottie touch our things.

In all my days of working in game stores (mostly in malls) and playing games in game stores, the only women, let alone hotties, that ever stopped in to see what the boy’s were doing with such “glee” were:

1). Girlfriends, either checking in after shopping for hours, or ones bored out of their freaking skulls from having to watch there boyfriend paying more attention to some little lead miniature then he had ever shown to them. They may seem interested at first and may even throw in some playful insults, but soon the reality of the situation sets in as they realize the game is going to last for hours… then the vapid comments start as se reassures her boyfriend she is not bored. Then she says she is going to get a drink and comes back three hours later with new clothes.

2). Mothers, either buying stuff for their kids or husband or again standing around bored out of their minds watching their children/husband  playing some silly game for hours on end, all the while thinking to herself…I will probably have to do all the washing when I get home to. They to will find any excuse to vanish for hours, only to return when it is absolutely apparent that the game has finished.

3). Wives, apply both of the above to wives and add… what the hell are guys thinking? Do we really expect our females to like this stuff? Some do and they are to be applauded or they are just really good liars J

4). Hotties, Single females or, depending on your team, Single Males, also at times come into the proximity of gamers while an actual game is being played; and this is what happens.

-They are looking for a toilet.

- They are looking for their brother.

As far as letting others touch my miniatures during game play I have this to say:

I am here to play a game with miniatures… not to trust you in any way, shape, or form.

In an established game area, you already have a repore with your group. There is a social norm that is already established, and this rule is depending on that norm. If with friends of like mind, you have a repore, just as you do a different one at a tourny, a new store, or a pick up game with a stranger. You follow what the rest of the groups does, or you quickly find a different one. Most of the time, I've found that the unsaid rule is " Move your own stuff". The several ocasions that I've seen a public display of picking up a strangers minis is in cases where Demo's, Scenario's, and specific games that are already prearranged, such as a Rogue Trader special event, ( The Hunt for the Fallen, Armaggedon, Cityfight, etc.)

I say let people touch your stuff, you better have a bottle of zap a gap at the ready. Not once have I seen a gaming group NOT have an issue with a broken arm, head, weapon, claw, wing, etc.

Glue is just like having a condom on the gaming scene. >

As for that " orderly chaos codex," this crap rule is just a stab at the randomness that the designers now discourage. It falls on hollow ears. Don't touch peoples stuff without permission.

Thank you Churoc and thank you all. As you can tell I feel very strongly about people touching my miniatures <v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" style="WIDTH: 14.25pt; HEIGHT: 14.25pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/FckHtmlEditorProvider/FCKeditor/editor/images/smiley/msn/tounge_smile.gif" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\Spencer\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape>

However, my opponents are to be held blameless, since they are only following through on GW's unilateral decision to clandestinely forfeit my property rights during my opponents turn.

Those miniatures belong to me GW, not to you, and definitely not to my opponent.  

Now, I haven't seen the rules to this "whip of pleasure" or what-ever its called....but it occurs to me that this is the whole point!

Imagine you are really on the WH40K battlefield, you've spent decades training your forces, you've spent billions of credits arming and equipping your troops....and blam, a chaos commander takes control of them......I imagine the feelings you have are not that far off how you would feel in real life.......so perhaps thats the point of the rule, to inspire you to new depths of emotion within WH40K.......and you guys say chaos isn't hard enough!