Latest posts for the thread "Ork Summary Page pic!..."

Ork Summary Page pic!...

Ghaz — GMT

... from The Millenium Gate

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Tacobake — GMT

"Woah."

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Pariah Press — GMT

Dang. That's a lot of AP3 and better weapons. Can't wait for the Shokk Attack Gun!

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yakface — GMT

Looks like the rumors were all pretty much spot on.

The Green Tide appears to be rapidly approaching!

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bigchris1313 — GMT

Sweet. Nice covert op.

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yakface — GMT

So I went back to the rumor thread to double-check where the new weapons fit into the scheme of things and here's the recap for anyone not up on that thread (and the corresponding summary page numbers seem to verify these claims between the page #s the units are on vs. the page # of the weapons).

Boomgun = Looted Wagon
Dakkaguns = Bikes
Deffguns = Lootas
Grotzooka = Killa Kans
KillKannon = Battlewagon
Snazzguns = Flash Gitz

The things that seem odd to me are that the Boomgun has a longer range and a higher strength than the KillKannon yet its found on the looted wagon and not (?) on the Battlewagon. You'd think that the Battlewagon would have access to the army's biggest gun (if you give up some transport capacity).

Also, I wonder if the Grotzooka is only available for Killa Kans or whether Dreadnoughts can take them too?

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Ghaz — GMT

Take a look at the WS and BS of the Deff Dread versus the Killa Kans. That seems a little strange to me as well or should we chalk it up as a typo?

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torgoch — GMT

I'm guessing a kan is piloted by a grot now.

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Toreador — GMT

Yep, kan is a grot with bs3 and a deffdread is an ork with bs 2.

Some interesting things there.

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Hellfury — GMT

Those are beautiful words right there. "Written by Phil Kelly"

Heh..."Summary and Borin' bits" It seems the orks havent lost their sense of humor. Nice.

Who is Old Zogwart?

Damn, shootas are nasty, as are many of the other weapons. Everyone is going to take shoota orks now.
Grotzooka sounds as fun as a shokk attak gun.
Nah, the shok attack gun is far more fun.

In celebration of BS3 Grot piloted Kans, its time to bring out this time honored classic...

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Waaagh_Gonads — GMT

6 special characters!

T5 Warbosses! T5(6) on a bike)!

ORKS FTW!!!

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Symbio Joe — GMT

Some more Orks is all waaaght I need now.

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Voodoo Boyz — GMT

There will be a waaaaaggghhh of un told proportions as da Voodoo Boyz make there way out of my basement and into the grim darkness of the future.

'Comon Boyz, it's time ta go!

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Anung Un Rama — GMT

so, the kustom mega-blasta is assault now. would be a great choice if the shokk attack gun woulnd't be back . I would give it to a Big Mek on bike, but I think a burna on a bike would look much cooler.

I was kinda hoping the Big Mek would get a higher BS, but hey, he's still green....

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Boss_Salvage — GMT

Alas, photobucket is blocked at work

Dunno how to take Orks loading up on clearly anti-MEQ weaponry (though that's an easy way to be "competitive"), but I dig all the new and different guns. My chaos boys are, of course, green (though still spiky & eevil) with envy

- Salvage

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dienekes96 — GMT

Can't see it either...someone else, rehost, and make it snappy. I don't have all day.

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syr8766 — GMT

Ooooh, yeah, people are going to go shootas in a big way. Shootas and kans for dakka, and klaws for da krumpin'.

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Toreador — GMT

I am getting so very curious about the grotzooka. H2? Does it shoot 2 grotz?

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engine — GMT

Looks like a picked the right time to get my new plates!

Green and everything.

engine

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Toreador — GMT

I think I am still going to field lots of slugga boyz with a weirdboy (depending on the points of the weirdboy). I still want that extra, much more skilled CC attack over the shooting attack. It's really going to be interesting though, because now it is a hard choice.

And now Guardians with Shuriken cats are even worse. Catapults used to be one of the best basic weapons in the game. Now an ork shoota is better than it....

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waaaghboss — GMT

All this info and the new models is enough to make an old warboss come out of retirement and make a first forum post.

To bad when I retired the boyz went to work for another boss and now I'z gonna 'afta rebuild da waaagh...

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Toreador — GMT

Well, with all the new kool models, it's a good time to restart!

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Iorek — GMT

How's this?

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Hellfury — GMT

[quote]Posted By Iorek on 10/03/2007 10:00 AM
How's this?[/quote] To be honest, the formating is too small. Barely readable without plastering ones faces to ones plasma.

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Boss_Salvage — GMT

That's the same pic over on wherever? You the man Iorek!

And as to reading it, looks like me young eyes are still good for something

- Salvage

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Orock — GMT

BLAST! if only it had the points summary. Well its good to see, about the only thing that suprised me was the grotzooka. Quick now do a shot of the special rules page, especially the one that shows trukk boys are no longer entangled automatically. I want to use them as a nasty suprise for tonights game vs my friend.

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migsula — GMT

Waaaaaagh!

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NinjaRay — GMT

Good times! I was really hoping the Rumors where true. This almost confirms it. I say almost because we can't see all the special rules and points costs. I just noticed the Zapp gun didn't seem to have the melta rule, maybe it's part of it's special rules.

@Yakface, I think it makes sense that the Killcannon on the battle wagon is not as good as the gun on the looted wagon and that's because Ork weapons tend to be less well designed. Ork make guns for load explosions and sending people flying, it's all for a good laugh. Looted vehciles will have Imperial equipment that is then orkified, but still has Imperial consturction and design at it's core. So it makes sense to me. Yeah, that's the ticket.

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Iorek — GMT

Yeah, I just threw it up here on Dakka as a message attachment. I'll see if I can't get it up on my webserver real quick.

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Iorek — GMT

Some artifacting there, but that's as good as I can make it.

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dienekes96 — GMT

Iorek,
You are a god among insects.

Do not believe Jester's lies about you. May you have all of the virgins and Reeses Cups you deserve.

Many thanks,
Chuck

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Jayden63 — GMT

I guess this pretty much puts the slammer on base I3 orks. FC is pretty pointless right now, and even if we do get the charge not one character model can go up against force weapon weilding characters and win (they would be lucky to get a simultanious kill). Even our nobs only get to I4 for one round. Orks have moved from HTH to shooty. That makes me sad. I already have a fun shooty army with Tau. Orks were supposed to replace my Chaos HTH army that got nerfed with the new chaos codex. Looks like the nob with PK is even more necessary than before. Sad. I'm not saying orks can't win, or can't be effective (time will tell and its not like they can get worse), its just not looking like they are going to be the type of army I was hoping that they would turn into.

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ghost21 — GMT

sir i salute you

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Triggerbaby — GMT

[quote]Posted By Jayden63 on 10/03/2007 11:40 AM
I guess this pretty much puts the slammer on base I3 orks. FC is pretty pointless right now, and even if we do get the charge not one character model can go up against force weapon weilding characters and win (they would be lucky to get a simultanious kill). Even our nobs only get to I4 for one round. Orks have moved from HTH to shooty. That makes me sad. I already have a fun shooty army with Tau. Orks were supposed to replace my Chaos HTH army that got nerfed with the new chaos codex. Looks like the nob with PK is even more necessary than before. Sad. I'm not saying orks can't win, or can't be effective (time will tell and its not like they can get worse), its just not looking like they are going to be the type of army I was hoping that they would turn into.[/quote]

Furious Charge makes them strength 4, and they have WS 4, T 4, and A 2. At 6 points apeice, they are still going to turn most opponents into absolute paste when assaulting. But hey, I don't know your game plans; perhaps that one initiative 4 casualty when assaulting a six-man MEQ unit really throws a wrench in the works.

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Dice Monkey — GMT

I already hate the Shokk Attack Gun for not haveing random rolls to see what the snotlings do.

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Toreador — GMT

Wait,... what? Didn't all our characters and nobz strike last because they had power klaws anyway? So what is the issue here? Do people just have to find something to scorn?

Statistically vs marines Orks on the charge do just about the same as they used to,.. except they are cheaper!

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Jmznudd — GMT

[quote]Posted By Dice Monkey on 10/03/2007 12:47 PM
I already hate the Shokk Attack Gun for not haveing random rolls to see what the snotlings do.[/quote] That was the best weapon effects table EVER!

Nothing pisses a 2d ed Tyranid player off more than filling his Carnifex full of snotlings.

Shokk Attak Gun + Telescopic legs = fun, even when I got slaughtered

-Jmz

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The Power Cosmic — GMT

Waaaagh!!

'Ere we go!
'Ere we go!
'Ere we go!

Amazing, I'm actually excited by something GW is doing. It's a wonderful feeling. Phil Kelly, you're my hero. Gav, DiaF.

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Jay of Moore — GMT

Looking through the list of weapons the thing that jumps out to me are that the only weapons better than strength 8 or with Ap1 are based on D6 rolls. Lets just say that I'm not looking foward to facing land raiders or monoliths.

Also I don't see why some people feel that there are all these weapons that are MEQ or better. The orks have 7 AP3 or better weapons; 3 are ordnance weapons, 2 are available only as heavy weapon batteries or possibly on the battlewagon, 1 is an assault 1 plasma weapon, and one is the basic heavy weapon. In other words the majority of your AP3 or better weapons are available only as heavy support choices, like almost every other army out there. The only ones that aren't limited to heavy supports are the rokkit launchas,kustom mega-blastas, and the shokk attack gun.

All that being said I'm really looking forward to this codex. It has a lot of strengths, some weaknesses, and has a completely different feel to it. Most importantly when I'm drawing up lists I have difficulty deciding what not to include. So far the only unit I'm not really sold on are the flashgitz. The other heavy support choices are too appealing.

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Dice Monkey — GMT

[quote]Posted By Jmznudd on 10/03/2007 1:31 PM
[quote]Posted By Dice Monkey on 10/03/2007 12:47 PM
I already hate the Shokk Attack Gun for not haveing random rolls to see what the snotlings do.[/quote] That was the best weapon effects table EVER!

Nothing pisses a 2d ed Tyranid player off more than filling his Carnifex full of snotlings.

Shokk Attak Gun + Telescopic legs = fun, even when I got slaughtered

-Jmz
[/quote]

mine would always sit on a hill with a powerfield and Mega Armor dareing someone to shoot him. The best kill I ever got was nailing Bjorn the Fell handed and haveing him walk down the space wolf line rolling 8 on the sustained fire dice and killing 5 wolf guard.

I can only sigh about this list. It is still generic crap compared to the mad cap shooty fun of the 2nd edition ork list. Hell you don't even roll randomly to see what the Stormboyz do.

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Zoned — GMT

To Dice Monkey:

Actually, I heard that Stormboyz add a D6 to their Jump Move (so can still shoot, fleet...etc) and on a "1" one of them crashes and dies...the unit still Jumps 13", though.

Zoned

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BrotherAdso — GMT

The glory days of 2ed rules are long gone -- even space marines were madcap back then (I remember holding half a Chaos army back with a lone sarge laying down a minefield of plasma grenade templates...).

But this Ork codex seems to capture some of the feel of 2ed Orks -- Weirdboyz are back, and their destruction is both unpredictable, useful, and potentially disruptive to both sides (whoops! I needed that squad that just deep-struck across the board...). They'll win in CC due to brutally large numbers of attacks and an unwillingness to die -- right on the money!

My only annoyance is that the Ork Shoota Squad is now better at run-n-gun than Marine scouts or Eldar Guardians or Dark Eldar Pirates or whatever. 18" with a 6" move, and putting out bolter-equivalent firepower? Sigh. It's a unit that can truly engage the enemy on exactly whatever terms THEY choose. My fluff sense twinges a little here. Maybe all rapidfire weapons should be 24" if standing still, 18" once on the move, or 12" twice whether standing still or moving. That would cure the cognitive dissonance.

Overall though --- WAAAAGH comin thru!

-Adso

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NinjaRay — GMT

God, would people at least consider that Orks have BS 2 with the shooters. Everyone thinks they replace Bolter and Shuriken Catapult, but only Orks can run around blindly firing there guns in the wind, sure they have a decent threat range, and they will roll lots of dice, but the big mobs everyone wants to run will rarely get everyone in range to the target(unless they are about to assault). If the Shoota was 12" range, it would have been useless.

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Toreador — GMT

Yep, what, 12 hits out of a squad of 20? Then you have to wound and save beyond that. Not a dire threat when attached to orks, but as a weapon compared against others it is quite good!

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Dice Monkey — GMT

[quote]Posted By Zoned on 10/03/2007 2:09 PM
To Dice Monkey:

Actually, I heard that Stormboyz add a D6 to their Jump Move (so can still shoot, fleet...etc) and on a "1" one of them crashes and dies...the unit still Jumps 13", though.

Zoned[/quote]

That is still meh, they used to do things like crash into the ground and blow up end up on the other side of the table or fly of into the sunset never to be seen again. I know they want to simplify the rules but man I want to have some random fun that causes some havok not one blows up if you roll a one on a d6.

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Clang — GMT

there still may be oodles of random effect tables to keep the old skool ork players happy - I wouldn't expect to see them on the summary page.

some of the weapons look very amusing, although we don't know their cost or unit restrictions yet, most of the whackier ones will probably only be available to a few units.

the looted wagon stats look suspiciously similar to a rhino - I suspect it may be to deliberately allow looted rhinos, and then looted-only upgrades will be available for increased armour and weapons etc, thus allowing looted approximate equivalents of other non-ork vehicles

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Zoned — GMT

Wait till you see the Shokk Attack Gun misfire table, then.

Personnaly, I'd rather play the game then spend 5-10 min seeing what wacky thing a unit does...special rules start to eat up some serious game time when every other unit has got a page of things to do. On the other hand, other people don't mind this style of game play, and dearly enjoy all these personal unit touches. To each his own. I think the new Ork book is a good compromise.

Zoned

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Orock — GMT

[quote]Posted By Toreador on 10/03/2007 3:02 PM
Yep, what, 12 hits out of a squad of 20? Then you have to wound and save beyond that. Not a dire threat when attached to orks, but as a weapon compared against others it is quite good![/quote]

12? I wish. BS 2 = 5 or 6 to hit = 33 precent chance to hit = roughly 6 or 7 on average out of 20. If we do the math for a large squad: say 24ish shoota boyz make it into range some how. Thats 48! shots. 16 hits on average. 8 wounds on average against space marines. 2 or 3 failed saves is what it averages out to. Squad of 10 space marines. 20 shots rapid fire. 14ish average hits. 7 wounds against marine type toughness. 1 or 2 space marines dead with average rolls. So to be one or 2 kills ahead of a 10 man space marine squad, you need 24 orks all in range.

Personally I like your average 12 hits out of 20 shots better. Wanna trade dice? PLEEEEAAASSEEE

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Zoned — GMT

Orock, he wrote "squad of 20," meaning 20 boyz shooting, 40 shots, ~13 hits. Also, your example is flawed, since I highly doubt 10 Space Marines will get into rapid fire range of the boyz unscathed. Point for point, I will get 25 Orks for 10 Space Marines.

Turn 1
24.1" away. If Marines go first, can't shoot. So regardless, Orks move first. Can't do anything else.

18.1" Marines shoot. Individually, they have a 1/3 chance of killing an Ork. 10 shots = 3.3 Orks dead, so 22 Orks left.

Turn 2
Orks Move.

12.1" away.

Shootas: Can shoot! Orks have 1/18 chance of killing a Marine. 44 shots = 2 dead Marines (8 left.)

Marines shoot, but only have 8 shots. 8/3=2.7 dead, so 19 Orks left.

Turn 3.
Orks Move.

6.1" away now, so still can't assault.

Shootas: Get to shoot! 38/18 = 2 dead Marines (6 left.)

Marines have a choice. Assault, or Rapid Fire (Assume not DA, BA, or Chaos.) Rapid Fire is probably best option.

Vs Shootas: 6 models left, 12 shots = 4 dead, 15 Orks left. Had they assaulted instead, they would have gotten 12 attacks, 6 hits, 3 wounds.

I'll leave it at that. 15 Orks (45 attacks at S4) vs 6 Marines, not to mention 30 more shoota shots, will roll over those Marines no problem. Hmmmm. Maybe rapid-firing was the wrong option and the Marines should have assaulted instead. Also adds value to BA, DA, and Chaos (presuming you allow Assaulting after shooting with Pistols.)

The point is, Shootas can affect their enemy earlier on, and the volume of fire is considerable. They lose very little HTH ability, since they still get Furious Charge, and the old Choppas are gone. Shootas can still hide Nobz with Power Claws. But Shootas can also back away from threats and still affect them like Hormagaunts, Grey Knights...etc. Land Speeders can't get in Assault Cannon range without exposing themselves. Shoota Boyz can still take Big Shootas and Rokkits, but now their basic armament can make a difference too!

Zoned

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Jayden63 — GMT

Thats all well and good, but what if you dont want to run horde? 12 orks (happy to see the increase) in a trukk have a lot less massed shooting ability, and starting with a smaller mob means less sustained HTH if/when you get there. Its now the small squads that are going to suffer. I didn't like playing the green tide, I probably still wont.

But fewer point costs means potentially more trukkers so it might work itself out with a combined force sorta thing. Points costs need to be known. I just feel that there has been a real hit against HTH, but we will have to wait and see.

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ciaotym — GMT

Turn 3, 6 marines: did they pass their morale test at +25% shooting casualties?

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NinjaRay — GMT

@Orock: HE said squad of 20 not 20 shots, but other wise you math is great. The big problem I see with all the math hammer is that if you cluster your boyz close enough that they can all get in range, you going to get punished by template weapons, and if you spread out you won't get all your boyz in range to shoot.

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Zoned — GMT

To Jayden: I think it's fair to say that the army was designed with Horde style in mind. Not that the army can't work Kult of Speed Style (12 boyz, trukk, and toyz will probably only run abot 150pts) but I'm pretty sure GW wrote it with foot sloggers in mind. IMHO, HTH is only compartively nerfed when you consider how gross the Shoota is. I mean, I woulda been happy with Assault 1, but Assault 2 is over the top. Realistically, 6 point Slugga Boyz are still dirty. 25 Slugga Boyz will still run over 10 Space Marines.

Zoned

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Polonius — GMT

[quote]Posted By Jayden63 on 10/03/2007 4:58 PM
Thats all well and good, but what if you dont want to run horde? 12 orks (happy to see the increase) in a trukk have a lot less massed shooting ability, and starting with a smaller mob means less sustained HTH if/when you get there. Its now the small squads that are going to suffer. I didn't like playing the green tide, I probably still wont.

But fewer point costs means potentially more trukkers so it might work itself out with a combined force sorta thing. Points costs need to be known. I just feel that there has been a real hit against HTH, but we will have to wait and see.[/quote]
Don't forget that you have dirt cheap jump troopers. While only S3, on the charge (and as jump troops they should get the charge) they have 4 attacks at WS4, S4. They hit harder than Assault marines for half the cost.

2-4 shoota mobs, 2+ trukkers, and a couple of storm boys squads are all doable, and provide lots of attacks, lots of claws, and suprising mobility. throw in a some shooting from heavy support and elites, and you're looking at a decent army, at least better than anything possible now.

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Jayden63 — GMT

Yeah, I'm not hating on the codex as a whole. It seems like it has lots of potential. I just had an army play style in mind and its not looking too promising as of right now. Not all builds are created equal I guess.

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Samwise158 — GMT

So the deal with the new stormboyz is that they can use jump packs and then fleet? I think that is too much. On the whole it looks like the orks got a much needed boost and the h2h and shooty parts got balanced out a bit more. I like that the basic boy is cheaper, and hope that it will make foot ork armies more viable. One thing that I really hope comes out of this is a meta change that will break some of the nidzilla, mech armies.

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Drake_Marcus — GMT

*shudders with joy* My green tide of death is competitive again!

Where's Nazdreg? Not cool. Oh well- I'll just use the coolest rules for my model of 'Dreg.

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Phryxis — GMT

Am I mistaken, or is GW speeding up their release rate?

Chaos just came out.

Apocalypse and Orks are both clearly done.

It sounds like they intend to string out the actual releases, but they've got three books ready to go, more or less at once.

What's the story?

A Phil Kelly authored Codex on the way, and an increased production rate? Are they trying to win back my heart after the debacle barrage that was Codex DA, Codex BA and the Lash of Submission?

Hell, I'm even somewhat please with the Chaos Codex, Lash aside.

GW, let it not be said that I don't give you guys a fair chance to impress.

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BrotherAdso — GMT

I didn't mean to start the cheese debate or the balance of shootas debate -- just that assault 2, 18" range FEELS wrong, flavawise, compared to other weapons of the 40k Universe, and previous incarnations of Ork weapons. All this math-hammer needs to wait at least until we figure out the structure of the army and the viability of some of the support units.

-Adso

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Onnotangu — GMT

it's still BS2. so there is a very good chance all that math hammer will be for naought if you can't hit.

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yakface — GMT

[quote]Posted By BrotherAdso on 10/03/2007 7:19 PM
I didn't mean to start the cheese debate or the balance of shootas debate -- just that assault 2, 18" range FEELS wrong, flavawise, compared to other weapons of the 40k Universe, and previous incarnations of Ork weapons. All this math-hammer needs to wait at least until we figure out the structure of the army and the viability of some of the support units.

-Adso[/quote]

How do you figure that? Most every other Ork weapon was an Assault weapon with a shorter range than its counterpart in other armies.

Now Shootas fit into that same concept: They can be fired from the hip without penalty but can never fire at the same distance as rapid fire weapons from other races.

Really, if they were to have made Shootas Assault 1 they would have had to made them a 24" range which would have made the basic Ork boy into a semi-long range specialist compared to every other army (besides the Tau). The 18" range plus Assault 2 means that you still want to get fairly close to the enemy but you aren't completely compelled to get within range to be charged to do so.

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Zoned — GMT

Going off the current rumours, here's the core of what I want to take:

30 Shoota Boyz w/ 3 Rokkits, Nob w/ PK...~245 x 4 = 980
20 StormBoyz w/ Nob w/ PK...~275

Total so far...1255pts...~140 models

Now for some dedicated "long" range tank killers (possibly Kannons or Zzap Guns, maybe two squads Tankbustas based on points...) Big Mek w/ KFF, Warboss on Bike w/PK to trouble shoot...mmmmm mmm good. Tournament standard around here is 1700pts...hopefully I can get all my toys.

Zoned

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yakface — GMT

Assuming that the basic Slugga boy will be 6 points (and I don't see any reason to doubt that rumor now that all the rumored weapons stats turned out to be true) I really think they came up with an elegant way to balance trukk mounted armies vs. foot sloggers.

The big problem before was that the achillies heel of the Ork boy was his slow speed and his vulnerability to enemy fire. The KoS negated both these issues in 3rd edition which made the KoS a powerhouse army while footsloggers had to struggle to win anything.

4th edition partially nuetered the KoS with the introduction of Entanglement. Of course this really just made KoS games into an all-or-nothing proposition: If the KoS player had ample terrain and got the first turn he would be able to charge at will and destroy the enemy. If he didn't have these things his Trukks would get torched and all his units would waste a turn being entangled before getting shot to pieces.

By reducing the effectiveness of the basic Ork boy in this new codex but also reducing their points cost by a third (from 9 points to 6) means that basic footslogging mobs get to utilize the new strength of the Orks: numbers (plus they get the 'once a game' fleet move too).

Point for point the new Slugga boy (without a Choppa but with Furious Charge) is superior to the old Slugga boy. For example:

10 Old Ork Slugga Boys (9 pts) = 90 pts.
15 New Slugga Boys (6 pts) = 90 pts.
vs. 6 Space Marines (15 pts) = 90 pts.

6 Marines will cause an average of 1.25 failed saves against Orks in a round of combat.

The old Ork boy would get to swing simultaneously with the Marine at I4 so all 10 boys would get their full attacks on the charge. Even so, all 10 Orks would average 3.3 failed saves against the marines.

The new Orks don't strike simultaneously even when they charge, so on average they're going to lose either one or two models before they get to swing. Even with losing two models ahead of time, the new Orks still cause an average of 4.29 failed saves against the marines and 4.62 failed saves if the Orks only turn out to lose a single model before they swing.

With both new and old Orks fighting in a round of combat where they didn't charge the marines would strike first so they will lose some models before striking. However since new and old Orks still die at the same rate (they have the same defensive statistics) the fact that you'll have so many more new Orks makes losing models before getting to swing less painful.

In a round of combat where neither the 6 marines or the 10 Old Slugga boyz charged, the Orks would cause an average of 2.23 failed saves against the marines assuming the Orks lost only a single model before it got to swing or 1.98 failed saves against the marines if the Orks lost two models.

The same scenarios with the new Orks (15 new sluggas vs. 6 marines), the Orks will cause an average of 2.29 failed saves against the marines if the Orks lose a single model before it swings or 2.13 failed saves against the marines if the Orks lose two models before they swing.

In other words, no matter how you look at it, the new Ork is better off in combat than the old Ork unless we're talking about fighting against 2+ save models. The flip side of this fact is that the new Orks are [i]vastly[/i] better against non-MEQ armies like Tau and IG where the lack of a Choppa and I4 doesn't really affect anything (whereas the ability to field more Orks does have a huge impact against these armies).

But getting back to the KoS, the fact that the mob sizes are still limited by fitting into a Trukk means that the Trukkboy mob isn't able to tap into the core advantage of the new Ork statline: strength in numbers. Also small unit sizes means that each individual Trukkboy mob is much more affected by leadership issues than a big footslogging mob (which is fearless when numbering more than 10 models). Heck, we still don't even know if Trukkboy Nobs will be able to take the 'big horn' +1 Ld upgrade!

Of course, the reduced boyz points cost will mean you should be able to afford more Trukkboy units in your army and the rumored Trukk bailin' out rules means that games with Trukk heavy armies will be much, much less all-or-nothing.

All that means your individual Trukk boy mobs and boyz will be less effective but you should be able to [i]reliably[/i] get more of them into combat in your average game.

To me that means that the KoS type army sounds more balanced and fun to play with and against and the footslogging Ork horde will be (as needed) much more effective than it previously was.

So is everything all sunshine and roses? I'd say no simply because tournament organziers continue to puch the upward limit of points values in their games without properly adjusting the time allotted to play the games. Ork horde players already struggle to finish their GT games and now they'll have even more Ork models to deploy and move. Even more dice to roll each shooting and assault phase. And the 'ard boyz tournaments have set a new ridiculous standard of 2,500 point games in 2 1/2 hours.

Of course, this isn't the fault of the games designer. I think the reduction in points cost of the basic boy is the perfect solution to many of the issues of the Ork codex. It is now up to tournament organizers to get it through their head that they need to lower the points values in their tournaments or allow more time for each game.

RE: Ork Summary Page pic!...

Orock — GMT

It is crap the way this edition has taken all the teeth from the assault armies. Look at the nids, #1 example. They used to be all about crossing that board and shoving there claws up your @$$. Now what are they? Giant manly carnifexes relying on guns the size of gaunts. Nids winnnig most of there points in competative play thru shooting? Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy? The orks seem to be balanced around there new shooty gods as well. Im sorry my memory may be hazy its been a few years, but were all the GT really dominated by footslogging ork and nid assault armies?

RE: Ork Summary Page pic!...

Voodoo Boyz — GMT

[quote]Posted By Orock on 10/03/2007 9:11 PM
It is crap the way this edition has taken all the teeth from the assault armies. Look at the nids, #1 example. They used to be all about crossing that board and shoving there claws up your @$$. Now what are they? Giant manly carnifexes relying on guns the size of gaunts. Nids winnnig most of there points in competative play thru shooting? Am I the only one who thinks this is crazy? The orks seem to be balanced around there new shooty gods as well. Im sorry my memory may be hazy its been a few years, but were all the GT really dominated by footslogging ork and nid assault armies?[/quote]
That's cause assaults are stupid powerful in this game. That and much like in the real world, if you have to run up to someone far away to try and beat them over the head to kill them, and they've got a gun, you're going to lose 99% of the time.

Look at it this way, Orks are still better off in assault than they are in shooting if you keep the Nob with the PK in all your mobs (which anyone playing Orks will do), it's just that your Boyz get to do a lot more damage on the way in now, and puts many enemies in a no-win situation where they'll lose the shootout and they'll lose the assault. As opposed to just taking sluggas which means they'll always win the shootout and will avoid your units on foot as much as possible (which is to say, most of the time you play).

Course you can still take a lot of Trukk Mounted Sluggas, but even then your trukks can be stopped by one good shot, where as the horde of Boyz is probably the most durable thing in the army.

RE: Ork Summary Page pic!...

Orlanth — GMT

DA GOOD

1. I like how Ork boyz are just boyz now, you can equip them as sluggas shoots mix them up etc. They didnt go far enough in my opinion. Thery should have had a tankbusta, burnaboy, flash git and loota as another elite ork rather than another squad. Withy elite boyz having a larger quota of elite orks than troops mobz. I hated how there were this ork that ork and the other ork, but they all looked the same and if the mobz mixed up it was too hard to tell which ork was in which mob.

2. The new loota models look nice, and the astats for ther gun are very orky. A unit firing with something closer to all or nothing firepower.

3. Nice to see some large templates. This will work half range battelcannon and equivialent. If cheap and more importantly 1-3per HS slot they will provide the real firepower an ork army leaves. Bs2, who cares take three battlecannon templates for an HS slot and you are laughing.

4. Grot killa kans. Back in Rogue trader ork dreads were piloted by grots. Favoured grots who were privileged to fight with the rest of the ladz as an honourary ork. I like how the rules now run. Bigga dreads for orkses, little kans for grots. Having Bs3 heavy weapons somewhere also helps, I am not too concerned about Ws2, if it cuts the price all the better. I am more than happy for anyone to think that the way to take down a mob of kans is in close combat.
DA BAD

1. As all the nice guns are in equal armed units, like with Eldar aspects warriors, expect to see your nasty stuff shot up before it gets to do anything. Especially as it usually needs at least a turns movement to get into combat range, more for burna boyz.
With mobbing up rules we will see tankbusts and loota remnanats joining with the rest of da ladz, so its not an entire loss. Though a smart opponent will concentrate fire to eliminatre your special boyz rather than just cause thm to run and hide in the nearest mob.

2. Contrary to first thoughts there is no new Ap3. Only in vehicle weapons. Ap D6 doesnt mean much, and if its roll once for the whole squad and you have termies you will want to target flash gitz early. See above. It also matters when you roll for Ap before or after target selection. So you might roll a 3 against the termies, but roll a 1 against scouts/guardsmen.

DA UGLY

1. Burna Boyz. I2 howling banshees with noarmour and a penchance for setting fire to things. GW should put burnas back where they wbelong, in the mobz.