http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/7.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net
As bizarre as it seems, GW simply does not believe it is in the business of making games. It sees itself as a model-maker only. The top brass, the guys making all the business decisions, and even the games designers themselves, have all openly said that the games exist only as a means to push the models. (Why they refuse to see how the game can push the models is beyond me. It's what worked on me.)"
-Number6


Now you see on forums alot of the time people rubbish GW's Rules and codex's etc with cries of cheese and imbalance etc. Why this is a problem for some i dont know as GW always have said they make cool models first and formeost and then they make some rpainst and stuff for us to paint and build them. As a bonus they even give us some rules to play with them.

now the above statement says they should use the game as a meens for pushing the models? My queestion is what got you intio the hobby?? For me it was always the models. Hell I built and painted the models for many years before I went anywhere near the game aspect. That just seemed nerdy seing all the guys in the local GW playing with dice and stuff. Its the same for most of my friend. some still dont play the game but collect the mini's and some just buy the BL books to read and nothing else?

What is the opinion of my fellow Dakka posters? Am i wrong/right or just dilusional due to how late at night (or early in the morning) i am posting this?
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278675.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278675.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278678.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278678.page GMT
So over all I am here for a good game and may move on to something better now that some real alternatives have poped up in the gaming scene in my area.

I have about 2000 more points of 40k stuff for my current 40k army(that is already at 3000+ points full finished) unassembled/unpainted and laying around as well as about 5000 points of dwarves and lizardmen yet to be painted for warhammer as my first two armies. The dwarves I play semi painted, the lizardmen I do not play at all because I haven't even had time to put them together and won't start until the dwarf army is completely ready to go. All of this could be avoided if the armies were ready made and allow me to buy even more armies to play.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278688.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278688.page GMT GW figures, I was a RPer who liked painting. I was used to Grenadier and Ral Partha figures, and I refused to buy GW figs because, at the time, you got single-pose static guys. Good for gaming, but awful for painting. We're talking late 80's-early 90's.

The first GW figures I actually liked were the Harlequins. My brother had bought some, and they actually looked dynamic, and proportioned.

GW figures have come a long way. I got into the gaming side of 40k in 2004. GW had just opened a store in a mall near me. I wandered in, curious more than anything else, and wow, I was amazed at how much better the minis were than they were 15 years ago. So, that's when I started picking it up.

Good models will influence my choice of army more than good rules. My general belief is that most armies can find a way to work with a good general, and so I pick armies based on models. I can get into any strategy, or any fluff as long as I like the models.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278690.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278690.page GMT Good models will influence my choice of army more than good rules. My general belief is that most armies can find a way to work with a good general, and so I pick armies based on models. I can get into any strategy, or any fluff as long as I like the models.[/quote]

I totally agree with this. When i first saw the Ragnar and ulrick models way back in the early 90's I fell in love with them. Then i read about the SW and the fluff clinched the deal. I only took interest in the game very rarely. For me painting those mini's like they were in "evey metal" was the ultimate challenge. I was not bothered about rules/balance or winning games.

Even if the new SW codex is nerfed I will still stick to sw as long as they dont make the mini's look like crap]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278695.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278695.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278700.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278700.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278713.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278713.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278730.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278730.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278734.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278734.page GMT
My friends grew up playing sports. Warhammer didn't
become social for me until last few years (unless you count
Dakka Dakka).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278740.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278740.page GMT 40k at all- but I still kept buying and painting models.

As much as I enjoy playing, it was the models that took my money and time, and still do.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278750.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278750.page GMT
BYE]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278753.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278753.page GMT 40K is so widely played you can find a game easily, and I liked the Tau.

If I was in a wargame club I might not have picked up 40K because I would have been playing historicals or something else.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278828.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278828.page GMT 40k games I have played on one hand, but I regularly get white dwarf (or i did until they made it so unpersonal) and take part in lots of online forums. I actually started GW with the LOTR magazine they did where they gave you a couple of paints and about 4 plastic figs in each issue. i then went onto 40k because of the far better models and more detailed fluff, although I do like to think I could avoid embarassing myself in a game.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278933.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278933.page GMT 40k.

The models brought me in.

The game got me going.

The fluff has kept me for 18 years.

I no longer play 40k (haven't for over a year)
I've still got more models to paint than I ever have hope to.
Still love the models but lay out money on WHFB models instead.

WHFB was started at the same time.

But it was the game that got me in and the game has kept me going, although the last couple of army books have become way OTT and alot lazier in editing.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278942.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278942.page GMT
The ONLY reason I entertained the idea of going with my friend to the FLGS to play 40k is that he started talking about the fluff. I already KNEW all the fluff, because all the codex at the local bookstore were right beside the battletech tech readout books. I played battletech, and one day I decided to pick up the Angels of Darkness book, just to see what the heck it was. I then ended up picking up ALL the 2nd edition codex... for just the fluff. I never even entertained the thought of playing the game (as I played battletech exclusively).

So it was the confluence of battletech tanking in the 90's and that I already knew all the background that I even entertained the idea of playing 40k. After that one time... I was hooked. 8 years later, I still carry around a codex with me almost everywhere I go.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278954.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/278954.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279007.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279007.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279082.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279082.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279086.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279086.page GMT ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279087.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279087.page GMT SW codex). It was definitely pictures of the models though that first captured me, then the fluff. I wish they still wrote battle reports like that. It was more story than tactics and dice rolls.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279154.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279154.page GMT
If GW folded, it's probable that I wouldn't buy another wargame or figure for the rest of my life. Not in mourning or out of spite. There is great stuff out there besides GW in the field of wargaming. But I'm not much of a wargamer. I'm here for universe.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279173.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279173.page GMT
I got into this "hobby" for the background and the story.

Unfortunately the story took a back seat to the legions of drooling, retarded howler monkeys that make up the new target audience as championed by "Lil Jervis".*

* for anyone offended by my continued use of "Lil Jervis": do yourself a favor before your overreactor melts down and get bent. I don't care about your tender sensibilities.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279295.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279295.page GMT ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279324.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279324.page GMT
After seeing those black templars on the pile of skulls I was pretty much hooked....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279633.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279633.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279664.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279664.page GMT
Rogue trader was an outstanding piece of fluff work. The rules stunk to high heavebn and were nigh unplayable, but you cannot deny that the fluff and the art in rogue trader was something quite extraordinary for its time.

I only later got into it for the social dynamic. I was a roleplayer just getting into other aspects of gaming.

Collected the models for far too long, but didnt really play with them for wargaming until 3rd ed. The models were used for games of Gammaworld and such until then.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279717.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/279717.page GMT
Started playing RT, Space Marine and Blood Bowl. Eventually got into WFB (3rd).

These days I have the odd game of WFB, never play 40k yet collect and build full armies for both.

So now its all about the minis and I love the fluff (HH being the best I've read yet).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/280491.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/280491.page GMT GW have a really good thing going here: a multifacted intellectual property that has at least 4 or 5 different modes of interaction/appeal for their audience. Folks are rarely into one, and often shift their use between modes with lifestyle changes (or temporary exhaustion of the offerings of another mode). For example, my own case:

Historical/lifestyle changes:

I voted models (because I saw the models when I was a wee kiddo, and was fascinated by them bigtime), but then I realized that I actually started _playing_ when I got ahold of Rogue Trader and liked the background. As teens with tons of free time, we started using RT for skirmish with a roleplay background. Then I took a break... and as an adult years later, fell in love with the Goodwin plastic Eldar, and I was done for. Hooked. bought tons of 40K and WHFB, and played both games a lot, but left the fluff alone. This was before the Bl explosion of recent years.

These days, I read every BL 40K book I can get my hands on (well, I won't touch any more of Gav or Ian Watson's crud, but everything else, especially anything Abnett or Counter write). Because I have less time and travel a bit, I play less, and read and paint more. Of course, i won't touch WHFB since Alessio put his foul hands upon it and started breaking what used to be a very good ruleset. And the fluff bites too, compared with 40K. But I hear the call of that new MMO...

Ayways, Case in point. Very few players maintain the hobby for just one aspect, although they may have gotten in for just one part that first caught their eye.

Speaking of which, I agree with HBMC: The appeal of the models and the appeal of painting should be separate choices. Many who love the models think painting is a total chore. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/280496.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/280496.page GMT HQs counting the Living Saint special character and an Inquisitor and his drinking buddies.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/280612.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/280612.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/280790.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/280790.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/280824.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/280824.page GMT
If GW fix things with 5th edition I'll likely start that Imperial Guard army that presses all my fluff buttons, but otherwise, I'm not going to waste a load of time painting up an army for a game that is broken and provides nothing but frustration and irritation.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/281292.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/281292.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/281324.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/281324.page GMT
Yeah, painting is definitely more emphasized in GW games than in PP
ones. I'd say people play more games of Warmachine just because
there's no paint to play culture going on in anything other than Hardcore
tournaments (which has its good things and bad things going for it)

Good: People play more games
Bad: People are less invested in their armies

(Sometimes Good: People are less invested in their armies)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/281611.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/281611.page GMT RT together in high school. We would take turns taking it home and talk about how much space marines rocked at lunch. We immediatly began making up fluff for our own chapters like good geeks.

Slowly the painting and modeling became fun and now even tho I'm older and busier I still manage to paint a few days a month at least.

I've still never won a game of 40k, so thats aspects not keeping me in it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/281634.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/281634.page GMT
Now, I really hate painting. I find it painfully tedious, and a waste of time that I could spend on much more rewarding enterprises. I still enjoy playing the game, because I still enjoy spending time with the people I play against. I like the mild competition and matching of wits against my friends.

I do have to agree with the person you quoted on one thing. Tightly written rules would drive sales just as much as cool miniatures. They could easily play both ends against the middle and increase their sales thereby. There is no justifiable reason to ignore writing good rules for the game just because GW identifies itself as a miniature making company. They are shooting themselves in the foot by alienating those who want tightly written rules. It is pure silliness to not produce both great miniatures and solid rules for the game.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/281900.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/281900.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/281963.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/281963.page GMT If people would not have issues I would probably leave most models simple black.

I also do not like building a whole army and stopping before painting, nor having someone else do it for me.
I like the modeling in as much as it makes the game customizable, but really it is a rules extension for me.

RPG I have no time nor real urge for anymore. This for me, is a similar creative outlet but where I can spend most of the time in smaller chunks, and without needed to schedule with others. Especially as the flgs is loaded with folks regularly enough that I can just show up when motivated to play and find a fun game.


The fluff needs more Tyranids!


rarrr]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/282030.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/282030.page GMT HQ models and any army I have always has way to many HQs painted up. BUt I enjoy converting an army. I just wish my converting skill and painting skills were a match for my iseas.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/282800.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/282800.page GMT GW via Dark Future, and assembled a few Matchbox car conversions. Never really bothered to play, but started buying White Dwarf. Mostly looking for pictures and conversion ideas for Dark Future, but also reading the 40K fluff. The whole Space Marine/sci-fi-future/haunted/superstitious/medeival vibe really seemed unique.
But for some reason I was never tempted to play or even start buying modeling 40K stuff. Probably because I didn't know anyone else who participated or had even heard of GW.
Then, about five years ago, an independent game store opened in a neighboring town, and I wandered in one evening. Found myself absolutely riveted by painted armies in the showcase, recalled reading about Space Marines years ago, and started to ask questions and meet regular players.
Haven't looked back.

You see, I almost escaped. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/283206.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/283206.page GMT
BYE[/quote]

that doesn't fall under other? hmmm ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/284521.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/284521.page GMT
Anyone else sometimes feel like you are an old guy in a 15 years old's hobby? And maybe thats the source of most of the issues in the game....

Scary. Heh.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/284689.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/284689.page GMT From that point I was hooked on the concept of miniature battles, but being way out in the willy whacks, had no access to any of that kind of thing.
Fast forward a few years and I was in Texas when I saw the old school RT marines. At that point I was in for the long haul. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/284770.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/284770.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/287430.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/287430.page GMT 40k had all the elements of the perfect hobby for me at the age of 12. Granted most people don't want to play a 12 year old but that is when I started, over 8 years ago now. I've gone a couple of 6 month stints of not playing due to school work or sports. However I've always built and painted so that "next season" I'll have the GT army I wanted last year. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/287461.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/287461.page GMT 40K. Firstly the fluff, and secondly a system that, while not perfect, was good enough to play.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/293051.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/293051.page GMT WHFB. A friend then showed me the Relams of Chaos books. It was all over for me. I have played 40K ever since. Mind you, I have only recently purchased chaos miniatures. Rather, it was the FLUFF for me. I love the concept of the God Emperor. I love the Space Marines. I love the Eldar. The look and fluff of the game has only seemed to improve over the years. Now, we have role-play, the HH books, and Dawn of War. It's a good time to be in the game. I just wish we had more stuff like the old Realms of Chaos books. They would cost $1,000.00 today, but they sure were great back in the day. Good poll.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/293258.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/293258.page GMT
At Rock City gardens in Chattanooga TN they had some artists come in and create scenes from folk/fairy tales with miniatures and scenery. I remember going through there when I was four or so, and I suppose it sort of stuck with me. I was mixing in terrain pieces from railroads and such with my building blocks soon after, and then I guess it was a natural transition to this sort of hobby. I guess it was either this, model railroading, or ships. It really is wierd to think about, but sitting here I realize that if not for that short little family trip I may have never got into this hobby, or the role playing hobby which is what kind of led me into miniatures.

Incidentally, kind of in the same area there is a little tourist museum called the Battles for Chattanooga museum, aka the Confederama. It has a giant terrain board ( looks to be about 15' by 15') with painted minatures that is accompanied by lights and an audio presentation. The miniatures look to be 15mm, but unfortunately the people at the counter don't really know much about the miniatures themselves. Tickets for this alone are about 5 bucks if I remember right. Unfortunately it is the least popular of the attractions in the area ( which you can go to on one ticket) and consequently run down a bit, but still very cool. They have a one ticket pass to Rock city and the miniatures (awsome) and a cavern, Ruby Falls ( not so hot, IMHO).

Definitely worth a look if you're for some reason in that area, or even the Atlanta area.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/300382.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/300382.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/301227.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/301227.page GMT
Anyone else sometimes feel like you are an old guy in a 15 years old's hobby? And maybe thats the source of most of the issues in the game....

Scary. Heh.[/quote]

Same here. Back in 1988 a friend of mine who owned a comic store showed me some cool figures that were just released for a new game. They were called space marine terminators and came in a box of 8 for $19 USD.

The rules were meh, but the models were amazing. That same day I picked up Lost and the Damned and was blown away by the fluff. Filled with creepy artwork, loads of rules and prose like “The gaping maw of the fortress portal would vomit forth entire armies”.

God I miss those rules. Oh, how the mighty have fallen…

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/304429.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/210635/304429.page GMT