http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/7.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net My current group has a guy that is a great gamer, but every once in
a while his cousin will invite himself to our games... The cousin is a pain
in my side...and will pilfer threw my stuff instead of gaming.. interrupts
the games... and the time he does play...he talks about stuff that
has nothing to do with whats going on...try to cheat and all around
problem maker... Mind you he is in his late 20's in a group around
the same age.... I have spoken to my Friend a number of times about this,but
he is a nice guy and guess feels sorry for his cousin for some reason..
But the guy got my home phone and cell phone number (never remember
giving it to him) and will call like every 3 minutes until I answer... then its so
what are "we" doing tonight..and if I don't answer he shows up to my house anyway..
How to uninvited the uninvited??
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/290811.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/290811.page GMT

Tell your " friend" that if he doesn't get his stuff together, continues to pilfer your stuff, and come over just to be a pain in the , that he needs to go take his 10 year old childish act to some other playground where his antics might not get his kicked.

I would have given him the three phase attack plan in the first place, because it only makes it harder to get rid of a duche the longer they stick around. For your fellow gamer, you need to give them an ultimatum- Control your pet cousin, get him fixed, neutered, or whatever he needs to do to get the to act civilized in your company, OR he can go play with his cousin.
As for the stalker stuff, tell cousin It that he needs to forget your number or go find himself another place, ( preferribly in another STATE) to play, because if you see him again, your going to wear his head for a trophey.

If you spoke to Cousin IT, and he continues, you need to kick your friend out along with freakmiester.
You and your group need to come to a consensus of if you are going to allow this behavior to continue, or if you all feel the same way. Then they all need to give the guy so much static that he leaves, your " friend" gets it in no uncertain terms that he is disrespecting your group by even bringing this kid araound, and that you are willing to cut his gaming off, and he needs to go try to find another one that will put up with an .

You can't be nice to an . You need to tell them exactly what you want from them, and if they continue, follow through. No second chance, no mealy mouthing it, none of that. Pull up the boot straps and start kicking.

Some may say I am harsh, but what happens when Cousin It starts taking your cash out of your wallet, ripping you off, or getting your bank, credit, or Social Security numbers? You need to cut the guy off. I hope you arn't too late, or you have a change of heart. The cat is a walking foo pahh. Any one of you out there ever tried that in some of the clubs I've ever seen, they would probibly all go pounce you outside, and give you the whipping of your life.

No gaming group worth it's salt lets people go through thier stuff without asking, lets flagrent cheating, or someone who is obviously a mental midget continue to bother them. Most groups give outsiders, ( even related ones) one chance to mess thier trousers, after that, the labels come, the blaitent insults, and the ostrichization of the duche in question.
Tell your friend that if he brings Cousin It to the party, that he need not stay, unpack his stuff, or even hang around.
Cut them both off. Your gaming buddy is as guilty as his cousin, if not more so for letting his GUEST do that sort of stuff.

Of course, some call me harsh,

but thats just my opinion. take it for what its worth.

I hope this guy doesn't ruin your gaming group.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/290815.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/290815.page GMT
The podcast Fear The Boot occasionaly discusses how to deal with this kind of thing, with advice that sometimes sounds like Grot 6. A [url=http://feartheboot.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=323989]recent episode[/url] covers "How to handle uncomfortable social situations when hosting a game" amongst other topics.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291051.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291051.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291059.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291059.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291072.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291072.page GMT And you guys are right....I should be the one enjoying my
self...
As for the money comment...funny thing is.. We went to Games
Day last year.. To make sure there was no arragment issues I paid
for the air line tickets... We got the tickets 3 months ahead and everyone
paid in a very short time....except for the cousin....he waited till
two weeks before the Con. My buddy ended up paying me for his
Cousin to keep me quiet and when he finally did pay...He acted like
he was helping me out... This was stage 4 when I found out dont lend
him money...

Just Friday... I was playing GTA4 while waiting for everyone to show
up when he showed up...*univited* I paused the game to answer the
door...then my wife called and I left the room...with out asking or
wondering if it would affect my game he unpaused the game and started
playing...

Actaully I have asked if the cousin is on some type of medication...he is not...

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291100.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291100.page GMT
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291160.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291160.page GMT up when he showed up...*univited* I paused the game to answer the
door...then my wife called and I left the room...with out asking or
wondering if it would affect my game he unpaused the game and started
playing...

Actaully I have asked if the cousin is on some type of medication...he is not...
[/quote]

This is deal-breaking unreasonable to me as far as being a kind human being to this fellow goes. Especially the showing up univited, but [i]especially[/i] just jumping in on your game. Would he sit down at your table and start eating your supper too? It does indeed sound like he has some kind of social disorder which perhaps he could/should be medicated for (sorry Tom Cruise), but I'm assuming you are not a social worker or psychologist and it shouldn't be your task to deal with this stuff. You can empathize with the guy for being a friendless misfit sure, but at the end of the day, you've got to draw the line and start giving him the bum's rush whenever he shows up. I recommend Detroit-style. If you've come to Dakka seeking confirmation that what you feel you have to do (get rid of this guy) is acceptable human behaviour, then I think you have it. No one upon hearing your story would frown on you for giving this guy his marching orders... except maybe his cousin. But unless cuz is willing to take over babysitting duty, what can he say?

Again, best of luck with a crappy situation.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291201.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291201.page GMT
Its clobbering time.

NO ONE touches the game without permission. He should have left your house without teeth, point blank.

The only cure for this sort of behavior is a large heaping boot full of kicking.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291221.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291221.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291235.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291235.page GMT
Failing that, turn up at his house with the whole group, go through his stuff etc. and see if he gets the message. Or if that fails go with Fellblades idea, and pepper spray him]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291285.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/291285.page GMT
Nothing says "I hate you" like a restraining order.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296252.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296252.page GMT

The next time this happens, hope that your wife is home.

Have her call 9-1-1 *immediately* and inform them that you have a trespasser.

In the mean time, inform him that he is not welcome and if he stays, he will be arrested for trespassing.

Press charges and get a restraining order.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296254.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296254.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296393.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296393.page GMT
[u][b]I was wrong. [/b][/u]

This guy is a thief. He has no idea of boundaries. This guy is certainly rude and completely lacking in social skills. He is probably suffering from some kind of mental condition. He is possibly a complete and utter freak-bomb just waiting to blow his top. This guy would never get into my house. Ever. I reccommend that you do the same.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296399.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296399.page GMT
Ozymandias, King of Kings]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296402.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296402.page GMT
I think a restraining order is a bit extreme, but not out of the question. Only perhaps after Cousin has had things explained to him in [u]no-uncertain-terms [/u]how things are. Your buddy, who is the cousin of Cousin, needs to 's grow a pair and let him know how he is being disruptive. Some people arent aware of what they are always doing, and need to be hit up the side of the head with things. (I can be like that sometimes, though nowhere near this extreme.)

If your friend cant conjurer the cohones to deal with his Cousin, then it falls to you as host to do it, and should it come to that then yes your buddy is just as liable. This is your house, you shouldnt have to put up with this . Lay it all out, next time Cousin shows up on his own is the best time with less people around. Tell him to get his together, or he's gone. Leave no room for "Ifs, ands, or buts."

No one wants to be the bad guy, but you gotta put your foot down, especially in your own home. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296406.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296406.page GMT You guys have given me some great insite and I do want to thank you all...
Also I havent had a chance to clear the air with my buddy...we are both working
alot of hours and not had free time to talk and dont want to blast him threw email...
Never considered the cousin a Thief...but a Social Misfit ...YES...Dont know his
boundries ...BIG YES... I could go on for pages with all the crap I had put up with him..
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296462.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296462.page GMT
Sorry, pilfer means to steal in small amounts. If you were using it with another meaning, fine. However, Webster's is pretty clear. No big deal, I think.

Anyway, Yeah I agree that "clearing the air" is only fair to your bro. Sounds like you have tried it a few times already, but it also sounds like it's time to tell him that he's getting the ban. Only fair to warn the guy. I think, if real life schedules intrude too much, it MAY be possible to break this gently with your bro over email, but ONLY if you can't get a chance to talk to him first. I dunno, your call (duh me!)

Good luck.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296484.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296484.page GMT
No, grizgrin you are right....I did not realize I was using such a strong word...Would help if I used the dictionary more...Now what do you call people that comes to your house and digs threw all your stuff ??

I compare it to be no different than going to a game store, While there playing your game with your remaining part of your army still in your case and one of the store leeches (you know the type) decides to see what nice stuff you have... I know I would have yelled at that person to stop it.(Why I dont do that in my own house..Thats what I keep asking myself)..but now what if he was the cousin of the owner of the shop and ment no harm and done it to a number of people. So what do you do??..(Side note - No my buddy does not own a store just a hypothetical question)

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296644.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296644.page GMT
It makes no difference if it's the owner of the gamestore or the president of the United States, they shouldn't be going through your stuff without your permission.

Now, if that doesn't work, (and it should work), then you may have to be more extreme, such as only bringing the figs you use to play with you, leaving no extra mini's in your case. Put the rest of your stuff away at home, or it it is at home already, put it all somewhere that can be locked up.

As everyone else has been saying, it's your house yo. If you can't be the king of your own castle, where else can ya? Put your foot down and let the guy know that he isn't welcome unless he changes his tune. Tell him to leave, and your buddy too.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296670.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296670.page GMT Although after whats been said it does seem the next logical step]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296724.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296724.page GMT
I would first, talk to your friend and let him know of your feelings towards his cousin and let him know what you are going to do.

then I would take this cousin outside and talk to him one on one and I would get very specific about what I expect of him and what is ok and not ok to do. (phone calls, video games etiquette, rifling through bags, game etiquette, etc.)

I would then tell him what will happen if he crosses the line or goes against any of your decisions. (first offense would be kicking the cousin out of your house. second offense would be kicking cousin and your friend out. third offense would be no more chances. done, never come over again, to include presectution by the law if he ever shows up again.

at this point, if this cousin doesn't get it, nothing short of a shovel to his cranium will change his ways, and you really don't want to get involved in assault on anyone at your house, it's just a stupid move that gets you in more trouble than the douchebag who is pissing you off.

in short, confront the offending cousin one on one and let him know you mean business and that he is on thin ice and if he screws up , he will be kicked out of your place. remember you don't need to "threaten" him to get your point across either. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296774.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296774.page GMT
I think what you should do is call him out. A "Hey get out of my crap" or a "What the are you doing? Are you some kind of squawling retard?" should get the ball rolling. If he is socially defective he will probably back down when everyone starts laughing. Just remember to keep it funny. I'm not entirely sure if a thing like this will work for you though. A lot of people aren't as crude and crafty with their language, jokes, and sense of humor as our bunch. But if you think it might work give it a whirl. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296793.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296793.page GMT
The main problem with social exclusion is you set yourself up for elitist judgement. How do you know if a new person is "cool" or not without allowing them into the fold. and if throwing insults around to "haze" the new guy is the way into a gaming group, there will be many who will just avoid it, of course that might be ok with you. personally, I find a more open doors policy works best, with guidelines and rules and punishments clearly established at first visit. then when someone breaks the rules, they know what to expect before they break that rule. it's clear, there's no elitist attitude, and even the socially akward are able to spread their wings a bit and learn to be less akward.

To each his own, but I really don't see how a hostile environment to outsiders helps anyone..]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296804.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296804.page GMT
Take the guy aside and talk to him privately but seriously. Give him the rules, and outline the three strikes.

You don't have to do it in front of other people (which can cause embarassment and increase the chance of a hostile/defensive reaction), but you definitely need to be clear that the behavior is unacceptable and needs to stop. You also don't need to threaten or insult him. Keep it mature and serious. Act like an adult and let him know you require that he do the same.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296861.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296861.page GMT
Don't tell him what he is doing wrong, just tell him how it feels to you. For example "Sometimes when you come over without calling first, or call repeatedly, I'm in the middle of something important to me, and that makes my busy time even more difficult. Could you please leave a message in the future and then when I can talk we can arrange a time to get together?"

When you remove judgement from the situation, and simple tell someone when you enjoy being around them, or when you're having a difficult time with their actions or attitudes, it opens communication, rather than battle. If you can keep calm and focus on removing misunderstandings, the other party should recognise your sincerity, and reciprocate. If they refuse to communicate, or insist on belligerence, then you can remove privileges in your house or with your company. It's your home after all, and you're well within your rights to decide who your guests are.


The position of strength always lies with the firm but reasonable approach.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296885.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296885.page GMT
Take the guy aside and talk to him privately but seriously. Give him the rules, and outline the three strikes.

You don't have to do it in front of other people (which can cause embarassment and increase the chance of a hostile/defensive reaction), but you definitely need to be clear that the behavior is unacceptable and needs to stop. You also don't need to threaten or insult him. Keep it mature and serious. Act like an adult and let him know you require that he do the same.[/quote]

But honestly, I think we all know that this won't happen either. It's easier to jostle someone socially amongst friends than confront them face to face with their problems. If you have ever been in this situation personally it's very difficult to go about it in this way.

I think I might of came off a little harsh. We aren't really elitists with it. But I do think there is a bit of 'social exclusion' going on. We separate ourselves from everyone else and we're treated with more space by fiat than everyone else in our flgs. I've never seen our numbers shrink though so I guess we're doing something right.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296944.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296944.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296950.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296950.page GMT If the man is just socially retarded, then I would just tell him not to come around anymore and see how things unfold.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296961.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296961.page GMT
What you DO need to do:

1. Make it very clear to him that you do not want him around. No not mince words. Look him in the eyes, make sure you get him to state he understands. Make sure you tell him you don't want him on your property or calling your phone #. Don't escalate things with cops yet. If he breaks those, repeat what you've said and tell him you're going to call the cops/get a restraining order. Again, eye contact, etc.

2. You need to make it very clear to your gaming group about your limits. Having him tag along with them is unacceptable if you all want to be together. Tell them it's not their fault for this. You and the cousin simple do NOT get along and when you're together there will be tension/anger. Tension/anger RUIN gaming sessions EVERY TIME. So if folks want to have fun, make sure he's not around.

3. Make doubly sure you talk to your friend and repeat #2. It's not his fault he has a bad cousin. It WILL be his fault if he lets the cousin come along, by "accident" or doesn't get rid of the cousin if it's a true accident.

Again. Do not mince words, be very direct. Problem should be solved with a minimum of bruised egos.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296974.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/296974.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/297227.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/297227.page GMT
What you DO need to do:

1. Make it very clear to him that you do not want him around. No not mince words. Look him in the eyes, make sure you get him to state he understands. Make sure you tell him you don't want him on your property or calling your phone #. Don't escalate things with cops yet. If he breaks those, repeat what you've said and tell him you're going to call the cops/get a restraining order. Again, eye contact, etc.

2. You need to make it very clear to your gaming group about your limits. Having him tag along with them is unacceptable if you all want to be together. Tell them it's not their fault for this. You and the cousin simple do NOT get along and when you're together there will be tension/anger. Tension/anger RUIN gaming sessions EVERY TIME. So if folks want to have fun, make sure he's not around.

3. Make doubly sure you talk to your friend and repeat #2. It's not his fault he has a bad cousin. It WILL be his fault if he lets the cousin come along, by "accident" or doesn't get rid of the cousin if it's a true accident.

Again. Do not mince words, be very direct. Problem should be solved with a minimum of bruised egos.[/quote]

This is the absolute best advice in this post.
I agree 100% with everything said here.
There's only one thing I'll add.

Step 1 should be, "MAN UP," and the rest should follow in order.

Now, that isn't meant to insinuate that you're being a wuss. It's just a term.
The first thing you have to do is look yourself in the eye (doesn't have to be taken literally) and remind yourself that a) you're a grown man, b) you are in your home, where YOU make the rules and not the cousin and c) as a man in his own home, you have to step up, overcome any trepidation you might feel about the confrontation and just do it. It's a lot bigger than just not wanting to be confrontational. You're being stepped on in your own home and a man does not allow that. Your house, your rules!

Also... don't ever refer to him as a "duche" (or DOUCHE). It's piss-poor manners. Retain your composure at all times and always be respectful to the man as another human being. Even if... No... ESPECIALLY if he becomes disrespectful with you.

Calling the cops should be the very final step you take, and it should be done discreetly so as not to stir him up further. Perhaps a prearranged "code phrase" with someone in the group to excuse themselves and make the call.

Lastly... I understood your meaning about pilfering. "Pilfer my stuff" and "Pilfer through my stuff" are both common(ish) terms here in the midwest where, in the former it's meant as "steal" and, in the latter, it's meant as "go through" or "paw through." Even though it's used incorrectly, it's fairly common for it to be used in that manner here. I think WhiteDragon can confirm that for me.

Good luck.
Let us know how it goes.

Eric]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/297439.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/297439.page GMT
If someone had come in uninvited and started playing my paused game, I'd have gone postal and made very sure he knew *exactly* what was going on and asked him to cease immediately. If he's rifling through your stuff while you are playing a game, stop the game and turn around, look him straight in the eyes and tell him to stop it. Make it very awkward and embarassing for him, and do it every opportunity you get. Make sure your friends notices this too and feels indirectly responsible.

He should get the message fairly quickly. When I had a 12 or 13 year old yu-gi-oh player at my local store just start picking my stuff up one day and just blabbering about dumb crap I just turned to him and asked him very directly while looking straight at him to *not* touch my stuff without permission and to cease talking. I made it a very awkward and embarassing situation for him in front of his friends and all the older people and he very quickly put my stuff down and left.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/297458.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/297458.page GMT
OK, there's been some hyper aggression in this thread. There's been some excessive passivness. Those two sentences are, of course, my opinions. You'll have to dig through the chaff and find your own personal wheat here. However, I happen to agree with:

jfrazell

Top post this thread.

It sounds to me like you have already talked to this guy, and his cousin CERTAINLY should have. Time for talkies is done in my opinion.

If I mangled any spelling or grammar in this post, consider it to be purposeful.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/300716.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/300716.page GMT IMO, MagikalMemories suggestions FTW.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/300727.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/300727.page GMT problem. I do have some what of an update.. I did get a chance to have a long talk
with my buddy over the weekend and he completely understands where I am coming
from.
As for the cousin, called once and didnt get an answer. Didnt feel this type of thing
needs to be left in a voice message. Also not going to call him every 3 minutes like
he does me and have no plans to chase after him either.. When and if he shows up or
calls I will drop the axe.. simple enough
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/300829.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/300829.page GMT
But as to what to do: You've just got to clearly and directly state what your problems are. "Hey, don't come around my house and ring me all the time okay?" or "Please don't go through my stuff."
If that doesn't work, you can move on to "Please don't call me again." and "Please don't come back to our club."

I say give the guy a chance, but make sure he understands in no uncertain terms what is and isn't acceptable. Always call him on things he does wrong, never let it slide. If you're lucky, he might improve, and you can feel good about yourself for helping him. If not, then tell him to leave every time.

It's easier to give advice in these situations than to take it though- I understand that. I personally hate confrontation and would much prefer to avoid it. So I can see how this would be hard. But if the guy is having a negative impact on your quality of life, then you gotta do something.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/300832.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/300832.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/301186.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/301186.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308025.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308025.page GMT
As to his coming over uninvited, touching your stuff, calling you all the time, as said before, be direct and unconfrontational, then begin to give him the cold shoulder. Don't answer the phone when he calls, no matter how many times (if necessary, turn phone to off or silent). When he comes around, stand in the doorway, remind him of the ground rules, say goodnight politely, and close the door. When he goes for the Army Transport, firmly and politely tell him to leave your things alone. Eventually (assuming this guy is not a danger to society), he will move on to some other target. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308032.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308032.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308124.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308124.page GMT
1. Ignore him

2. Ask him why are you doing this in front of everyone else.

3. If all else fails invite him out take him to a bad part of town have him run into a convenience store for for a coke and leave him.

This got rid of a particularly loathsome guy in our gaming group. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308158.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308158.page GMT
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308204.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308204.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308356.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308356.page GMT
How dare God fix this for you!? We paid for blood!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308471.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308471.page GMT
[/quote]

If your game store is anything like the one I "grew up" at, you're in even more trouble.

It's in the store's best interest to keep everyone as happy as possible. Therefore, they had an "inclusive" rule. If you were playing a multiplayer game (D&D, for example) and someone wanted to join, you HAD to let them.

Store's room, store's rules.

At least at your place, YOU are the Master of the Domain (when your wife lets you).

Eric]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308589.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308589.page GMT FLGS here that has a "private" room that is reservable in case the noise of the rest of the store is a bit much for your game (usu. D&D'ers). The owner is not EVEN a little afraid to ban knuckleheads, no matter HOW flush with cash. The result of THAT policy (which I admit, I thought was a little much when I first saw it in action) has been that the store is orderly, parents actually want to drop their kids off for a day of games (with cash) b/c they know that the owner is a gamer but he doesn't play around (couldn't resist). Making people admit lost sheep is ridiculos, unless there was a really odd crowd there. But if you are making anyone do that, you eventually will be losing customers, I would think.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308926.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/308926.page GMT
But as to whether this still works I've no idea, the whole staffing has been changed, its all new people running the store now, and I'm not sure how their policy has changed because of this.

Also, would the guy even want to come to the store, if he did wouldn't the staff apply pressure to collect an army himself and hopefully scare him off? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309108.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309108.page GMT FLGS here that has a "private" room that is reservable in case the noise of the rest of the store is a bit much for your game (usu. D&D'ers). The owner is not EVEN a little afraid to ban knuckleheads, no matter HOW flush with cash. The result of THAT policy (which I admit, I thought was a little much when I first saw it in action) has been that the store is orderly, parents actually want to drop their kids off for a day of games (with cash) b/c they know that the owner is a gamer but he doesn't play around (couldn't resist). Making people admit lost sheep is ridiculos, unless there was a really odd crowd there. But if you are making anyone do that, you eventually will be losing customers, I would think.[/quote]

Ah, but you took my one statement and stretched it into things it wasn't.
I said nothing about "lost sheep."
This man was no babysitter, and he made it known.

The only kids in his store were the local kids who could walk/ride bikes, etc to his shop.
He didn't have a private room, but -if he'd had the space- probably would have.

A rule that says, "If you spend your money here, you can play here," is blood-sucking in what way?
Nobody likes to be excluded.
Granted, if you're a group of adults and some 10 year old wants to come join in, it can be a PITA. So? Deal with it.
"My house, my rules." KWIM?


...and I didn't think it was ridiculous, at all.

Put yourself into a different pair of shoes.
You (right now, as an adult... or whatever age you are) walk into a game store and see a group of people playing D&D. You've been looking for a group, and you love the game. You walk over, watch for a bit and politely, when the DM has a few free moments, tell him you've been playing D&D for X years and are looking for a group. You tell him that his game looks fun and ask if he has room for one more player.
Then, he looks at you and says, "No. Private game."

How would YOU feel?

I mean, there's ALWAYS room for another player. I can't tell you how many different "Adventuring Posses" (10+ PC's) I've DMed. It's not difficult.

Personally, I wouldn't feel like going back to a place with such -what I would feel to be- exclusionary groups.
I want "friendly" in my game store. That's where I'll spend my money.


Eric]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309171.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309171.page GMT
When you game, it's a social event. If you have a functioning group, and someone doesn't fit into the group, it ruins the experience for everyone. Come to think of it, the "include everyone" is the store owner's peerogative, but it sounds an awful lot like Communism to me.

Pinko! ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309174.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309174.page GMT
ABOUT YOU.

We only hear Genocide's story here. If this person was as bad as reported EVERYONE would be at him. Maybe everyone is, maybe not. Also when you seriously dislike omeone you remember and accumulate reasons its human nature. Its a bit like the bitchy prom queen attitude where 'she is so bad because' and the list of reasons can last as long as there is an audience.

The fact is people dont need a reason to be liked, if you like someone you just do. When someone is disliked you have to remember reasons so you dont think yourself a biased git. Hence Genocides long memories of this persons wrongs. Remember this is human nature, and no condemnation on Genocides character.

ABOUT HIM.

I am advocating something else. Looking at what is sad this person has a rejection complex, I have seen it before.
When someone has been rejected they look for rejection, push the social boundaries because they want to be accepted. It doesnt sound logical but it works this way:

"I have been bullied/abused before and people unfairly mocked me. I cannot find any real friends and am very lonely.
Here come these new people. I cannot sit and 'chill' with them, I dont know how. This form of intereaction is alien to me. However if I push the boundaries I will see where I stand. How I am expected everyone to turn around and call me a jerk, they all do. He hasnt yet. Maybe he is two faced. So let me take the liberties a little more, could this guy actually be ok? No, what he said to me last time wasnt good. What will he say tonight when I go around."

People with a rejection complex think this way, and I think this is what your friends cousin has got. All the signs are there, a person in this mental state will push until you close the door very firmly in his face, with likely repeated instances or accept him for what he is. The real clincher is his underlying character. Most people with rejection complexes are transparently nice guys underneath that want to be loved, 'wont hurt a fly' victim types, others less but people with a dark soul dont usually end up this way, and would propably flipped by now. Is he really a thief or just someone who wants to look in your bag? I think the latter, someone wo takes the libverties as an extreme reaction to rejection. The guy doesnt need medication, or a beating, he does need long and serious councilling though.

The comment about the computer game is the vital clue. Its something personal to you you were currently doing, by activating it he is communing with what you are doing, indirectly being with you. It looks to me like a cry for communion with you, to have a friend he can lower shields around. By being as close to what you are doing as possible.

This is the other point, people witrh rejection complexes run with shields max at all times, as a mental defence mechanism. If you can get him to lower his shieldsyou can proably sort things out with him. He might well be as good a friend as you can ever find if you do, or he may be a ticking bomb.

This is the third and BIG WARNING about people with rejection complexes. Its a sign, by no means a sure sign, but a sign nonetheless that someday about 20 years from now he will have a mental switch and turn into a serial killer, rapist or other monster. One trigger could set that off, but it is very very unlikely at this age - and may not be the case with this guy at all. But he fits the profile. The press would call him a sicko when he is caught, but notrmally such people are meek and mild for decades then at one late trigger he festers and beings to plan something nasty and from the first offense continues because there is no going back.

THE PEANUT GALLERY

A lot of the comments here advocate a very shallow thinking. The "he bugs you so just hit him" approach doesnt help. You are better than that, or you wouldnt have posted for advice.
A spoiled life is far greater trajedy than a few spoiled game sessions. This guy needs help, not hatred.

THE SOLUTION

Somewhere down the line this guy is a victim of something bad, I can smell it. Some means of getting rid of him, if this is your intent:

Q. If he phones and I dont want to take his calls?
A. Put the phone down, dont hang up, just put the phone down and walk away. Let HIM break the call. there is a subtly different mental process here. If he is placed at a point where HE has to break the call he is getting the message far clearer than if you hang up on him. This same technique is also a good way to deal with pestering sales calls.

Q. If he comes to my door and I dont want him in?
A. Politely and firmly say that he is not getting in. Do not let him in, even if it is raining, open the door so he can see you but keep the chain on if its raining, if not raining just stand in the doorway and firmly tell him he cannot enter for the 'foreseeable future'. And only use the chain if you think he will just try to come in as soon as the door is open. Dont talk to him through the letterbox, its impersonal and cruel, let him see you face to face, if you are not good aty confrontations gave someone beside you, but prep them to say NOTHING and to avoid hostile body language. Say that he has upset you and you want some time to yourself. make him think about what this is doing to you, be seen to be open not hostile. Paint yourself as a victim not a pissed off gamer. He will rationalise that, if I am correct about his 'victime complex' you will get an apology of sorts if you see him as someone who is also hurting.

Q. If I want absolutely nothing to do with him anymore.
A. Tell him yourself, ask for "closure". This may mean meeting him in a public place and being patient polite and firm in the meeting. Make sure your friend is there, but noone else, so he wont feel ganged up on. a cafe is good. Get your friend to buy him a coffee or cola from the outset, if he is not ann ingrate offer one yourself. Your friend will probably respect that far more than the usual reactions to his cousin. The idea is to find a polite way to get the cousin to go away while keeping your friend on friendly terms.

Q. If I accept that he is a part of my gaming circle, maybe because I have no choice, but want to tone down his antics?
A. INVITE HIM! Sounds odd but feature a game in which he is thought of in a positive way, if you can stomach the concept. Arrange a game to which is presense is planned catered for, try a light hearted game boardgames may be good. Give the guy a drink. if he behaves invite him back. But make it clear: INVITATION ONLY. From that point on maker a very strict rule for him: not invited=no entry. See above points as to how to turn him away from the door.
Give him a future invitation, one or two months down the line. Keep the promise. If he improves make it more frequent.

You may see fit to try and help him, that is up to you. One thing I will say about this is leave the councilling to those who are trained at it. Many people with a rejection complex are not mad, but have been called mad time and again by those who hate them. So there may be very strong resistance to seeking councilling. It helps to either break the stigma of councilling=madness, or send this guy to a well chosen church group or other group where he receives councilling by non medical means.



Now I dont know the guy, and only read what I read here. So this could be way off, but at least its a valid counterpoint. If you read this AND read what everyone else is saying somewhere in the middle you will get a balance. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309203.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309203.page GMT
ABOUT YOU.

We only hear Genocide's story here. If this person was as bad as reported EVERYONE would be at him. Maybe everyone is, maybe not. Also when you seriously dislike omeone you remember and accumulate reasons its human nature. Its a bit like the bitchy prom queen attitude where 'she is so bad because' and the list of reasons can last as long as there is an audience.

The fact is people dont need a reason to be liked, if you like someone you just do. When someone is disliked you have to remember reasons so you dont think yourself a monster. Hence Genocides long memories of this persons wrongs. Remeber this is human nature, and no condemnation on Genocides character.

ABOUT HIM.

I am advocating something else. Looking at what is sad this person has a rejection complex, I have seen it before.
When someone has been rejected they look for rejection, push the social boundaries because they want to be accepted. It doesnt sound logical but it works this way:

"I have been bullied/abused before and people unfairly mocked me. I cannot find any real friends and am very lonely.
Here come these new people. I cannot sit and 'chill' with them, I dont know how. This form of intereaction is alien to me. However if I push the boundaries I will see where I stand. How I am expected everyone to turn around and call me a jerk, they all do. He hasnt yet. Maybe he is two faced. So let me take the liberties a little more, could this guy actually be ok? No, what he said to me last time wasnt good. What will he say tonight when I go around."

People with a rejection complex think this way, and I think this is what your friends cousin has got. All the signs are there, a person in this mental state will push until you close the door very firmly in his face, with likely repeated instances or accept him for what he is. The real clincher is his underlying character. Most people with rejection complexes are transparently nice guys underneath that want to be loved, 'wont hurt a fly' victim types, others less but people with a dark soul dont usually end up this way, and would propably flipped by now. Is he really a thief or just someone who wants to look in your bag? I think the latter, someone wo takes the libverties as an extreme reaction to rejection. The guy doesnt need medication, or a beating, he does need long and serious councilling though.

The comment about the computer game is the vital clue. Its something personal to you you were currently doing, by activating it he is communing with what you are doing, indirectly being with you. It looks to me like a cry for communion with you, to have a friend he can lower shields around. By being as close to what you are doing as possible.

This is the other point, people witrh rejection complexes run with shields max at all times, as a mental defence mechanism. If you can get him to lower his shieldsyou can proably sort things out with him. He might well be as good a friend as you can ever find if you do, or he may be a ticking bomb.

This is the third and BIG WARNING about people with rejection complexes. Its a sign, by no means a sure sign, but a sign nonetheless that someday about 20 years from now he will have a mental switch and turn into a serial killer, rapist or other monster. One trigger could set that off, but it is very very unlikely at this age - and may not be the case with this guy at all. But he fits the profile. The press would call him a sicko when he is caught, but notrmally such people are meek and mild for decades then at one late trigger he festers and beings to plan something nasty and from the first offense continues because there is no going back.

THE PEANUT GALLERY

A lot of the comments here advocate a very shallow thinking. The "he bugs you so just hit him" approach doesnt help. You are better than that, or you wouldnt have posted for advice.
A spoiled life is far greater trajedy than a few spoiled game sessions. This guy needs help, not hatred.

THE SOLUTION

Somewhere down the line this guy is a victim of something bad, I can smell it. Some means of getting rid of him, if this is your intent:

Q. If he phones and I dont want to take his calls?
A. Put the phone down, dont hang up, just put the phone down and walk away. Let HIM break the call. there is a different mental process here. If he is placed at a point where HE has to break the call he is getting the message far clearer than if you put the phone down on him.

Q. If he comes to my door and I dont want him in?
A. Politely and firmly say that he is not getting in. Do not let him in, even if it is raining, open the door so he can see you but keep the chain on if its raining, if not raining just stand in the doorway and firmly tell him he cannot enter for the 'foreseeable future'. And only use the chain if you think he will just try to come in as soon as the door is open. Dont talk to him through the letterbox, its impersonal and cruel, let him see you face to face, if you are not good aty confrontations gave someone beside you, but prep them to say NOTHING and to avoid hostile body language. Say that he has upset you and you want some time to yourself. make him think about what this is doing to you, be seen to be open not hostile. Paint yourself as a victim not a pissed off gamer. He will rationalise that, if I am correct about his 'victime complex' you will get an apology of sorts if you see him as someone who is also hurting.

Q. If I want absolutely nothing to do with him anymore.
A. Tell him yourself, ask for "closure". This may mean meeting him in a public place and being patient polite and firm in the meeting. Make sure your friend is there, but noone else, so he wont feel ganged up on. a cafe is good. Get your friend to buy him a coffee or cola from the outset, if he is not ann ingrate offer one yourself. Your friend will probably respect that far more than the usual reactions to his cousin.

[/quote]

What the ever happened to just saying "go away kid you're bothering me." Doesn't anyone have cojones any more? Save all that drama and closure nonsense and tell "Dude I don't like you. Go away." ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309237.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309237.page GMT
What the ever happened to just saying "go away kid you're bothering me." Doesn't anyone have cojones any more? Save all that drama and closure nonsense and tell "Dude I don't like you. Go away." [/quote]

If it was this simple it would have been done. It is plainly obvious that Genocide feels a moral resistance to being completely blunt, and its a good sign that he does. Too many gits have obvoiusly already tried the shallow "go away kid you're bothering me" line before on this guy, which I do believe is why he is that he has become. It doesnt take cojones to act that way, its mainstream to be uncaring in this selfish world. But it takes cojones to try another way.

The fact that Genocide has resisted urges to flatten this fellow so far shows he has character, and I salute him for that.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309257.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309257.page GMT
Besides, you brought up the nutjob stalker linkage. Better to be direct and fierce then embolden the stalker. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309260.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309260.page GMT
also, I don't care what issues a person has, but rifling through someone's stuff is wrong. There are no grey areas there. If you open my bag, consider yourself lucky if all you get is a verbal dressing down that makes you wonder what the hell you were thinking about.

That said, if he has a rejection complex, whatever the hell that is, it isn't my responsibility to fix that by including him, when he acts out. Period. Get it fixed, then acclimate back into society.

While I don't think you should assault anyone (verbally or physically) I don't see anything wrong with exclusion. As with all places, when you are the new guy, it's up to you to get accepted into the groups, it isn't up to them to come find you.. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309276.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309276.page GMT
Sorry you really dont understand the mentality of a rejection complex. He reaction to being told 'enough' is to what a World War 1 generals is being told trench warfare isn't working. Blunt doesnt work unless you use violence or threats of violence in such cases. It is a mental illusion, simple as.

Just to expound the analogy World War 1 generals were by and large educated and intelligent people, but to change their thinking directly by coercion was unthinkable, quiteliterally. Hundreds of thousands could die and they still would not see past their own illusions.

So you might (I hope) begin to see why someone might not see past their own illusions when the stakes are far, far, far lower.

The hard truth is you don't break this sort of cycle by trying to crash a mental barrier, you need to 'under' it. Don't mistake careful psychology for glib platitudes, the whole concept of diplomacy was after all based on the truth that the correct words can be very powerful. Psychology works on similar principles, if you have problems with that it is likely because what you have seen of psychology has been marred by political correct dogmas so prevelant in the field today. You know they sterotypical movie prison psychologist that the bad guy convinces he is harmless and ready for release... Sure they exist, but dont mistake their dogmas for careful words of wisdom. Carefully handled people like this are evidently curable, all it takes is someone who gives a shit.

[quote=jfrazell]Besides, you brought up the nutjob stalker linkage. Better to be direct and fierce then embolden the stalker. [/quote]

That I did, though I didnt mention stalkers. But anyway hence the words BIG WARNING. However you can tell the difference between a jerk and an evil jerk. From what I read he is not that type, but is I think profiled to potentially become that type sometime in his 40's to 50's if he gets jaded over twenty or so years of adult loneliness. Profiling is in itself dangerous and highly discriminatory, but if the guy gets sorted now it won't happen. Possibly I am even being unfair, and even defamatory, but I am only sating potentially as a warning to see this guy get help, which is a whole lot more positive than what most of this thread has to say about the guy.

If Genocide gets the impression this guy is turning 'nasty' as opposed to 'grossly socially inconsiderate' that is a sure sign it is time to say a big permenant NO and think about restraining orders. Even that should be handled correctly, the correct NO technique leads to safe closure, another big dose of rejection wouldnt help and may give this guy a target if he really was close to the edge, which again I dont think he is from what is being said.

All in all I am running with [u]very[/u] little information, I only offer pointers of what I think is happening, which over the internet are not much good. But that also makes the whole issue anonymous, thus I am not defaming a known person and can speak more freely than if I had any chance of meeting the man. Someone does need to take a look at this guy and see what sort of help he needs but that is not Genocides responsibility.

His choice is whether to find a way to firmly but tactfully close his life to this person, or to try and help him. What I am sure is that letting him get away with his antics is not a viable third option, if this guy has a rejection complex it wont be solved that way also Genocide and others dont deserve to put up with his behaviour.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309283.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309283.page GMT
also, I don't care what issues a person has, but rifling through someone's stuff is wrong. There are no grey areas there. If you open my bag, consider yourself lucky if all you get is a verbal dressing down that makes you wonder what the hell you were thinking about.

That said, if he has a rejection complex, whatever the hell that is, it isn't my responsibility to fix that by including him, when he acts out. Period. Get it fixed, then acclimate back into society.

While I don't think you should assault anyone (verbally or physically) I don't see anything wrong with exclusion. As with all places, when you are the new guy, it's up to you to get accepted into the groups, it isn't up to them to come find you.. [/quote]

This is no arguement against that. No it is not the gaming groups responsibility to help him, but so far they have put up with him. If they are not going to make him VERY unwelcome (and there are plenty of posts on this thread giving suggestions on how to do that) then you need to know ways to steer him.
I used to be a youth worker and learned 'behavioural management', it actually works. As stated it is the job of professional trained councillors to analyse and help this guy face to face, not gamers, and that goes for me too.

The point is that even if the guy gets councilling sessions and attends them, they are likely to be spaced far enough apart that it is a process. He might not be better overnight most likely wont be, in that time what does Genocide do, give him a load of verbal abuse every time they see him? For a start that will likely hard reset whatever help he is getting on an incident by incident occurance.

It comes back to the two decent options open to Genocide: firm but polite closure, or steering him into becoming a more responsible person - at least around this social circle. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309293.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309293.page GMT



Malfred, make this an article.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309309.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309309.page GMT
This is a gaming site. This might open a can of worms down the road. Statistical significant chance-no. Chance-yes. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309319.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309319.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309347.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309347.page GMT I posted on Dakka Dakka in hopes of an honorable way dealing with this and to reinforce my feelings where right.
Thanks to everyone who replied.

Now to my next problem . . . How to keep working on one project until it’s finished before you start another . . . I have something like 20 projects going right now . . . I really need to learn to focus. But that will be talked about in a new topic tread..

Next Case please... my time is done and dont want to be charged...]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309451.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309451.page GMT
MagicalMemories: I think we have different ideas on what constitutes "lost sheep". I'm not trying to "stretch" anything; if I took a different meaning from what you meant then that's called "miscommunication". There was no intent to twist your words or anything of the sort, I merely called what I saw, and judging from the posts that followed I was not alone. And the blood-sucking rule isn't the one that says "if you pay here, you can play here.", it's the one that says (and this is what I inferred from your post) "As a store owner, I want all my little income sources to feel included (so that they spend more $$$) SO bad that I will force them onto people who may or may NOT want to have anything to do with them."
Magical, from what you are saying, this rule worked. This rule sounds more intrusive than inclusive, in that it sounds like the owner forced new people onto existing groups without the groups consent; thereby doing more intruding (upon everyone in the group) than including (the one new person). However, all that aside, from what you say, it worked. The only way I can figure that can be, is that there was some sort of sponsorship or active governorship of the game in question by the store establishment beyond merely providing a venue. Maybe an employee was DMing, maybe there was some kind of prize support, maybe something else. Did you observe something to this effect? Was there some kind of additional piece that made this more viable than it evidently appears here?

Heck Magical; even YOU said in your OP mentioning this rule that it would cause trouble for our intrepid hero Genoside07 if it existed at his FLGS. That's not sounding like a working rule to me.

My FLGS; this would never happen. The owner wants someone to do ANYTHING of the kind, he asks. He doesn't brown-out, but he makes a polite request that is made to feel and is meant to be a true expression of having an option. He wanted me to run his youngest kid through a game of 40k. He ASKED me, he didn't tell me that I had to include his son in the game I was playing. I could have turned it down, no problem.

My House, My Rules? No kidding. I don't contest that, and never will. I don't argue with a man about the rules he makes in his own home; I abide by them respectfully or I leave if I think it is too left-field. I would expect the same in my home, so I extend it to the owners of ANY store I visit.

Private game? No problem. I might ask about getting in on a later game, but I would respect their decision without hesitation. I would FEEL fine. There isn't ALWAYS room for another player. Including someone at a random moment can be a PITA no matter their age, depnding on what the group was trying to accomplish that day. The PITA factor doesn't nec. have anything to do with the persons personality at all. WHat's appropriate depends on the group, not the individual. That's who should decide.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309502.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309502.page GMT
Ok, straight off. I might word my responces in an 'educated' way, but I am not [i]formally[/i] trained in psychology. So it would be fraudulent for me to attempt to charge you anway. I think I should make this point in case my posts were taken to imply that I was a practicing psychologist/psychiatrist, which I am NOT. I just know similar cases.

[quote=Genoside07]
Your post hits very close to the issue,...... He can’t help whom he is related to, you know the old saying. " You can pick your friends but you can’t pick family." He sees the problem and so do some other gamers that have known them for a while. They handle him in small doses and my house is not the first one the cousin has gotten kicked out of.[/quote]

Something your friend is not talking about, and that is the why. Maybe he doesnt know, if he does the cousin has told him not to tell.
If you are not wanting to go down the route of getting this person 'out' from your life:

- Ask the friend if he knows the cause of his cousins problems. This is different from asking what the problems are. The purpose of this is to find out if the cousin is bottling up what is hurting him. It is obvious he has family that love him, but that in itself is not a safeguard against a rejection symdrome, hence the internal need to find friends - and to test their friendship.
If my guesses are correct your friend will have vague ideas at best.

- The handle him in small doses makes sense. Hence the principle of proactively inviting him in small doses like on a month to bi-montly basis. I suspect if he has no invite he will make one because he is desperate. If he has an invite for a month down the line it will excite him and he may respect that and look forward to the venue in the meantime staying away from your home at other times. If this doesnt work and he keeps on turning up while he has a schedule of invitation(s) drop the whole invite plan as it isnt working. However as this person needs a character change expect a few lapses.

- On this note I caution you on the 'three strikes' approach advocated by others on this thread, the idea of first time warning, second time temporary kick out third time permenant wont work. The guy could seriously attempt to make progress with you but may forget himself in all the excitement, you will know if he is having progress if e recognisesd the wrong when challenged. You are trying to break a bad habit here with an absolute rule, sorry it doesnt work like that.
If you want to give this guy a chance to improve accept that it will be a process, get him to understand the mentality of respecting your space, which is more than a list of DO's and DONT's explain that in a humane way. What I mean by this is if he gets in your bag, you are hurt, not angry. If he has good in him he will accept the difference in emotional signals and respond favourably to a 'do no harm' thought process than a 'yet another guy is angry at me' process.

[quote=Genoside07]
and I have bit my lip way to many times, fighting the urge to make a jerk of myself in front of my gaming group. One major reason I have always kept it civil is because my friendship with my buddy, One of the other reasons is I’ve always tried to be the nice guy, which is the way I was raised, that is why I continued to allow him into my house even after a number of times of being a big pain in the butt to me. I can understand he may be a lonely guy but he does a lot damage to himself.[/quote]

You sound like a nice person, it is my pleasure to help you.

This person does do a lot of damage to his credibility, but it looks to be like a reflection of damage done to him in earlier years. My guess is that the causes were from school pre-teens running and accumulating in the teenage years. Once the pattern was established of his 'victim status' by about age 8-10, he would socially fall behind in development and create a gap that other unrelated bullies and ordinary people could hate him for. Its a viscious spiral. Once school was done he was outside a rigid system so he subsequently falls though society and hits rock bottom. I take it this guy cant get a job. A rejection complex like this usually stems from persistent bullying from an early age while socially isolated, though he may have a child abuse history (as victim). One thing that is almost certain, whatever horrors he had to face in his formative years, he had to face them alone, support might have been available but he might not have seen it or been able to grasp it for one reason or another. Normally bullying victims often fall into the 'never snitch' mental trap imprinted on them by bullies who want to further bully them into being silent. In effect it is likely this guy has been programmed by hard words and the occassional flying fist. Any attempt to shout at him or hit him is translated into reinforcement of the abuse he had. Any attempt to coerce him into telling you why he is why he is activates the programmed 'never snitch' response which is to say something on the lines of 'I dont know'.
This is just a guess though, I could be very wrong but he appeals to be on cue for the profile I have seen before.
Trying to get this guy sorted at his current age, late 20's will be more difficult. Likely he will always carry some damage.


Some behavioural guesses.

Speaking out of turn: "Hello I am here. Talk to me." His conversation might not have any relevance to what you are doing because to him its not about the game its having peer company that isnt abusing him.

Looking through your bags etc: "This is you." Hard to describe, again its getting personal with you. It certainly gets your attention and likely triggers the rejection that unconsciously he seeks/expects from people he meets. The correct response is to be 'hurt' by his actions but not 'angered'. This guy doesnt understand the concept of personal space its like trying to describe colour to a man born blind. Your 'hurt' can be explained to him particularly if you look hurt. This might go under his barriers and get through to him. This will be a process, he wont learn first time, but if he apologises you are making progress.

Cheating at games: "I can win at something." The only actual negative sign of his inner character you described. But maybe this guy needs the feeling of accomplishment. I doubt he games much because of lack of social contact and wont be able to build up a skill like a normal player. But he needs to be ok at something. Try and steer him towards a multiplayer boardgame where it really doesnt matter who wins. Keep it with as fantasy or SF element so that his imagination is still involved. Talisman has something he can dream about, Monopoly doesnt. Agree quietly amongst the rest of the group that noone is to gang up on him.

It will be up to your friend to see if his cousing is making progress or to suggest the guy gets help if he opens himself up enough to grasp for it. That isnt your job, and it certainly not mine. IF (I am winging it a bit here) I am right in thinking the cousin has been refusing help it is likely because he associates getting help with admitting that he is mad. With his accelerating social decline as he advanced through the teenage years it is very likely what was wrong with him was accentuated into accusations of madness by his abusers. After all you asked if he was on medication, while it is clear from your description of this man that he is not actually mad per se. In such cases it might be best to find a non-medical support as there would be a resistance to accepting psychiatric help due to a perceived stigma. It would e proving his abusers 'right all along'. One means of bypassing this is a church group or a self help group. These must be chosen carefully. The wrong church is sadly far more commonplace than the right one. Certain biblical truths as taught in some churches are liberating, but the Bible is a big book, and other churches perfer to read other parts more often. I can think of truths which if he grasped would of themselves free this man. I can also think of doctrines taught in other two-faced hardcore churches that would turn a man such as him into something akin to a mindless robot.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309676.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309676.page GMT
Orlanth maybe you should think of doing psychology, you seem to be good at it without having done the course, just an idea. take it as you will]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309725.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309725.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309790.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309790.page GMT Uk psychology is more to do with adhering to politcally correct dogmas than actually sorting out problems. Frankly I can do more good as an ordinary joe with an opinion (and some church ministry work experience) than I ever could through social services.

Whitedragon. Well it is psychology, but some things you can do as an amateur others you shouldn't (law and medicine come to mind). I know friends who can help fix a car, but are not mechanics.
You are very right in your analysis its about find solutions that work. But I hope I haven't levelled a moral burden on Genocide beyond the need to understand what is likely happening regarding his aquaintance. Ultimately someone with more experience needs to be on board to help. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309835.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309835.page GMT
But if you're a weak person, I think slamming the door in the guy's face sounds like a much easier plan. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309901.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309901.page GMT You are very right in your analysis its about find solutions that work. But I hope I haven't levelled a moral burden on Genocide beyond the need to understand what is likely happening regarding his aquaintance. Ultimately someone with more experience needs to be on board to help. [/quote]

I guess I didn't explain myself well enough. I wasn't disagreeing with you, only to rebut Stormlord about you being a "psycologist" and rather being a concerned person who decided to try to do the right thing for once, instead of the easy thing.

And yes, there is no moral obligation on the part of Genocide to help this person with his "rejection complex", you are absolutely correct. However, kindness, understanding, and communication can lead to a solution to his "gaming" problem without alienating anyone or hurting their feelings. Sure, it may take a little more effort, but it leads to a much nicer atmosphere for everyone, without any lasting "stigma" on the group.

I mean hell, it may be simple enough to say, "Hey, I really don't appreciate what you're doing." The person may have no idea they are being rude. It boggles my mind why people won't just "talk" to each other when they have a problem. In this modern day and age, I find that people don't just "talk" enough. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309990.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/309990.page GMT ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/310109.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/310109.page GMT I mean hell, it may be simple enough to say, "Hey, I really don't appreciate what you're doing." The person may have no idea they are being rude. It boggles my mind why people won't just "talk" to each other when they have a problem. In this modern day and age, I find that people don't just "talk" enough. [/quote]

Have you seen the film [i]Nell[/i], with Jodie Foster. I recommend it to you because I think you would like it, it has the same message as you.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/310110.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/310110.page GMT [/quote]

I can still fail a mean "break" test though! And does Nell have a happy ending? I hate watching screwed up mind-bender/mind screws where messed up stuff happens and nobody gets their due in the end. It makes me mad and uncomfortable. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/310465.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/310465.page GMT [/quote]

I can still fail a mean "break" test though! And does Nell have a happy ending? I hate watching screwed up mind-bender/mind screws where messed up stuff happens and nobody gets their due in the end. It makes me mad and uncomfortable. [/quote]

You need to watch the ending to get the reference and is why I recommended the film. Nell's insight and gift is not revealed before that time.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/310502.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/310502.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/311068.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211632/311068.page GMT