http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/7.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 40k tournament (ok, a ton of work to be sure, but doable).

So if I did do it, the cap would be ~100 players, with 5 rounds over 2 days. I'd use the same venue that we use for the colonial GT (The Clarion in Cherry Hill NJ, which is more than big enough to house all the players, doesn't mind if we drink during the tournament, and has a very good bar as well)

So what would interest level be like? When would be good timing for this? Any other suggestions? I've run lots of smaller 40k tournaments, and helped with fantasy tournaments of this size, but never a 40k tournament this big. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296007.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296007.page GMT
With the GTs all being pushed back to fall, anytime in the summer seems wide open for big events around here.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296031.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296031.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296035.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296035.page GMT the Hotels in central jersey are very affordable and near food!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296087.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296087.page GMT
The location is 15 minutes, door to door, from Old City Philadelphia. But to be honest, most people never leave the hotel all weekend except for dinner because the hall is open as late as we want, so there's gaming, drinking, poker, and general hanging out until 1 or 2 in the morning Friday and Saturday night. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296152.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296152.page GMT 40k.

- Salvage]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296155.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296155.page GMT 40K Indy GT in the state. There's a guy here in Houston, and I think that he and his club could pull it off so maybe I'll put a note in the suggestion box. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296185.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296185.page GMT GTs probably not coming back to Philly ever again. I agree you should probably keep it away from the fall GTs. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296205.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296205.page GMT GTs probably not coming back to Philly ever again. I agree you should probably keep it away from the fall GTs. [/quote]

Well, start spreading the word.

I'm so far removed from actually playing 40k competitively that I have no idea what makes for a fun tournament anymore. But 5th ed is coming out soon, so I'll be on equal footing with everyone else I think.

The Colonial is such a great weekend, as opposed to simply a great tournament, that I think it would go over pretty well.

One issue I do worry about is that the fantasy community is very different than the 40k community. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296229.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296229.page GMT GW. He talked at Adepticon, and is really trying to support the indy tournies. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296232.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296232.page GMT I think one thing that always makes a good Indy tournament is some sort of special slant that makes your tournament a little different from regular GTs and/or other indy GTs.

For example, Adepticon has the team tournament, the gladiator tournament and allows forgeworld rules. All of these are things you generally don't find in regular GTs and therefore are reasons to attend that particular tournament.

Inclusion of at least some FW/IA rules is a great incentive IMHO, since regular GTs don't allow those rules it gives players a chance to use those models they don't normally get to use.

Even some sort of "Mauleed-style" comp, sportsmanship and/or general tournament rules could be a distinction to help draw people.


Of course, if you need any help and/or advice with 40K rules/FAQ issues I'd be willing to help out with whatever I can.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296560.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296560.page GMT FAQ (though I'm worried about how it'll interact with the new rules, but I'm sure you'll address that).

I'm thinking late January is probably a workable time, though snow is a concern.

As for a special slant, I'm going to wait out the 5th ed rules before I look at it too hard. But I'm actually thinking no special rules in terms of what can be fielded (just what's in your book), but rather something special in terms of how bonus points are done. In a 100 person 40k tournament there will probably be several people who are undefeated, so how bonus battle points are done is important. So if I can I might shift away from the usual system where the mission just dictates how to get bonus points and if you have the right army for it you get them, and if you don't you don't, to a system where you get to have input on what your bonus points will be (perhaps via scenario cards that affect only bonus points, not rules or who wins or loses). That way the collection of bonus points becomes another measure of tactical skill and not 'did you show up with the right style of army'.

For comp, as much as I'm inclined to ignore it all together, I think people would be happier if it were included somehow. So I'd probably split people into hard/med/soft categories for the pairings of the first two rounds (but still swiss), but have comp scores based on a very simple system:

1. Normal comp
2. This guy should be specifically rewarded above other players for bringing this list.
3. This guy should be specifically penalized above other players for bringing this list.

....but it would only be worth a total of half a game in either direction if you got all 2's or 3's

For sports, I'm inclined for it to be exactly one checkbox:

1. This guy should be penalized for his sportsmanship.

and that would result in a negative point value worth half a win. (so people with negatives on their final totals would know that they had definitely been slammed).

But I would add to your total for favorite opponent votes (not sure of value). So people who were extra good opponents would still see some benefit, but for the most part sports would be irrelevant. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296658.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296658.page GMT
I'm not clear on how your Sports works- if any penalty is worth half a game, that's darn serious. Or did you mean you only take the penalty if the majorty of your opponents check the box? Or something else?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296666.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296666.page GMT
So if you want to dock someone, you're really docking them. No BS shades of grey for sportsmanship.

It's strictly binary sports. You either are a good sport, or you are not. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296683.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296683.page GMT FAQ (though I'm worried about how it'll interact with the new rules, but I'm sure you'll address that).

I'm thinking late January is probably a workable time, though snow is a concern.

As for a special slant, I'm going to wait out the 5th ed rules before I look at it too hard. But I'm actually thinking no special rules in terms of what can be fielded (just what's in your book), but rather something special in terms of how bonus points are done. In a 100 person 40k tournament there will probably be several people who are undefeated, so how bonus battle points are done is important. So if I can I might shift away from the usual system where the mission just dictates how to get bonus points and if you have the right army for it you get them, and if you don't you don't, to a system where you get to have input on what your bonus points will be (perhaps via scenario cards that affect only bonus points, not rules or who wins or loses). That way the collection of bonus points becomes another measure of tactical skill and not 'did you show up with the right style of army'.

For comp, as much as I'm inclined to ignore it all together, I think people would be happier if it were included somehow. So I'd probably split people into hard/med/soft categories for the pairings of the first two rounds (but still swiss), but have comp scores based on a very simple system:

1. Normal comp
2. This guy should be specifically rewarded above other players for bringing this list.
3. This guy should be specifically penalized above other players for bringing this list.

....but it would only be worth a total of half a game in either direction if you got all 2's or 3's

For sports, I'm inclined for it to be exactly one checkbox:

1. This guy should be penalized for his sportsmanship.

and that would result in a negative point value worth half a win. (so people with negatives on their final totals would know that they had definitely been slammed).

But I would add to your total for favorite opponent votes (not sure of value). So people who were extra good opponents would still see some benefit, but for the most part sports would be irrelevant. [/quote]


Comp scores have been slowly drifting out of most tournaments I've seen, so I don't think it would be too big a shock to players if your tournament didn't feature it.

I like the: 'this guy displayed poor sportsmanship' check box idea but I really think you should consider making the sportsmanship penalty exponentially larger depending on how many poor sportsmanship votes a player gets.

It isn't too hard to understand how a player can get a 'poor sportsmanship' vote from one player in a tournament. It can just be a conflict of differing personalities, a poor army match-up that leaves one player with a bad taste in their mouth or even a purposeful 'chipmunking' of an opposing player.

I think you could disregard a single 'poor sportsmanship' vote in the tournament, but make two votes a fairly severe points penalty. Three 'poor sports' votes should be twice as bad as two votes and four votes should be twice as bad as the penalty for three votes.


As for my FAQ, I'm just waiting for the new edition to put out a revision, so once it comes out I will indeed get something else out within a few months.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296824.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296824.page GMT TFG.

I really like the idea of this event. The Colonial is too cool for school, and while I don't know if we can get the same feel with a 40k crowd (which will necessarily be a lot of different people), I expect it'll still rock out with its socks out. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296856.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296856.page GMT
I want it to be a big deal not just to have it checked on you, but for you to check it on someone. You should be of the mindset that 'yes, I indeed want this guy to know I think he's a slimeball', with all that entails.

I'm even contemptating it be open, but I realize not everyone is as comfortable with confrontation as I am.

But I do like that it be on a sliding scale, so one is a hit, two is bigger, three is crippling.

@Ragnar: I don't think it'll be quite as awesome as the Colonial, because the Fantasy community is smaller, more mature, and generally just better sports. But I still think it'll be another awesome weekend. And maybe these sorts of events (ones that stress the weekend as much as the tournament) will go a long way toward making the 40k community like the fantasy community. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296869.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296869.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296880.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/296880.page GMT
Event Insurance.

Covers the costs of the event, in the case of snow or something else causing it to be cancelled or substantially reduced. Not sure about the cost. I know of several people who went bankrupt because they ran winter events without it, and moaned afterwards.
You won't have nearly the costs of most events, but still substantial to eat them. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/298594.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/298594.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/299836.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/299836.page GMT
Don't make me beg, it's not pretty.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300070.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300070.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300074.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300074.page GMT RTT had you rank your opponents on Sports and Painting at the end. So, you had to give out a first, second, and third. I really liked it, and the organizer's point was that the games are competitive, so it made the soft scores competitive too. I forget if Judges had any effect on the scores (they should on the painting since someone could get all first place votes by default not because it's an OMG level).

I'd consider doing a two part sportsmanship: He's a slimeball; or He was fine. Then do a favorite opponent vote at the end.

The other suggestion I would make is to not require painted armies. I think it's appropriate to tell people that unpainted armies will be penalized/not get any painting points/etc.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300134.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300134.page GMT 40k tournament (ok, a ton of work to be sure, but doable).[/quote]

Why do you have 50+ tables?!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300210.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300210.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300211.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300211.page GMT
What serious gamer doesn't?

(I have them, or more specifically access to them, from the colonial GT, a fantasy GT that's been running for several years)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300235.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300235.page GMT
On one hand, I'm around the corner from the hotel where it'll take place.

On the other hand, I'm probably going to get roped into making some of the terrain for the event if it does happen.

Personally I think January/Feb is a good time for it. The only concern is that it's right after XMas/New Years and as such budgets may be tighter from the holidays for a trip, but the costs are pretty low to come in so its probably not much of a concern. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300241.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300241.page GMT RTT had you rank your opponents on Sports and Painting at the end. So, you had to give out a first, second, and third. I really liked it, and the organizer's point was that the games are competitive, so it made the soft scores competitive too. I forget if Judges had any effect on the scores (they should on the painting since someone could get all first place votes by default not because it's an OMG level). [/quote]

This definitely has the virtue of forcing differentiation, but grading on a curve has always seemed fundamentally unfair. I prefer to reward people for their own behavior. If I get two really nice opponents or two jerks in a tournament, it stinks to have to give one of them an average score. You might note that Adepticon no longer uses this system, which is not an accident.

[quote=dietrich]I'd consider doing a two part sportsmanship: He's a slimeball; or He was fine. Then do a favorite opponent vote at the end.[/quote]

Yeah, adding the favorite opponent votes at the end is a nice little bump.

[quote=dietrich]The other suggestion I would make is to not require painted armies. I think it's appropriate to tell people that unpainted armies will be penalized/not get any painting points/etc.[/quote]

It's not a bad idea for small local events, but if people are going to pay and travel substantial distances, facing an unpainted force when they get there will make them think your event sucks. And be right. The one terribly-painted force I faced in a GT this year substantially impacted my enjoyment. It was the one significant flaw in an otherwise great event.

If it didn’t require painted armies I would not bother to attend. Thankfully Ed wouldn’t make that mistake. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300267.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300267.page GMT lol try both unpainteds and a 'tres black' on for size. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300273.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300273.page GMT GT (or other large event of the kind one travels for), or a local event? In a local tournament I can see allowing ugly or unpainted stuff, but in any big event unpainted is exceptionally lame, and ugly stuff is a disappointment.

Last year I played in two fantasy GTs, a 40k GT, and at Adepticon. The breakdown in terms of appearance was roughly WH: 3 below average, 5 average, 3 very nice armies and 2 “wow”. 40k: 1 cruddy, 2 below, 3 average, 3 nice ones, and 3 wows. This year so far I’ve only had one Warhammer GT and Adepticon for big events. For 2008 so far it’s WH: 1 crap, 1 below, 3 average, 2 nice ones, and a wow. 40k: 1 below, 2 average, and 4 nice-looking ones.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300292.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300292.page GMT
I do think Painted Armies should be required. That's part of the draw.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300329.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300329.page GMT the painting standards.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300345.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300345.page GMT
Yes on fully painted.

One thing that helps make tournaments enjoyable to me are non-standard scenarios. Something that is a bit different from what we play all the time.

I like the yes/no sportsmenship.

Very interested to see more details later.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300383.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300383.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300391.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300391.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300408.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300408.page GMT
april: The colonial (and adepticon, which is a big draw even out here)
July: Necro
Sept: Crossroads
Oct: NEWCC
Nov: baltimore.

So it's pretty much either august or winter. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300530.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300530.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300536.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/300536.page GMT RTT placing or some such?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/301216.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/301216.page GMT

Basically, I'm just proposing a scaled-down run first, to let Ed get the kinks out of his 40k tourney mojo.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/301256.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/301256.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/301326.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/301326.page GMT 40k tournament (ok, a ton of work to be sure, but doable).

So if I did do it, the cap would be ~100 players, with 5 rounds over 2 days. I'd use the same venue that we use for the colonial GT (The Clarion in Cherry Hill NJ, which is more than big enough to house all the players, doesn't mind if we drink during the tournament, and has a very good bar as well)

So what would interest level be like? When would be good timing for this? Any other suggestions? I've run lots of smaller 40k tournaments, and helped with fantasy tournaments of this size, but never a 40k tournament this big. [/quote]

Hey Ed,

Count me in as interested!

One thing I'd strongly suggest, is to have tables with very different levels of terrain (from desert-like to cityfight) and make sure each player has to play across the spectrum. Might help to keep the "overly tuned" lists down...

Vale,

JohnS]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/301345.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/301345.page GMT

PLEASE!!!????
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/301376.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212071/301376.page GMT