http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/7.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net 40K 5th edition mega-episode!

Preview copies of Warhammer 40,000 5th edition rule books have hit friendly local gaming stores and the D6G team managed to not only read through the book a few times but also play a couple of 5th edition games.

To help us with our detailed review special guest Jon 'Yakface' Regul joins us from www.DakkaDakka.com to help give detailed insight into the changes from 4th to 5th edition. We also get to 'Yak with Yakface' about what it's like to write a massive FAQ such as the 40k Adepticon FAQ and what is on the horizon for Dakka Dakka.

All that plus our usual dose of 'not to horrible' humor makes this our longest episode yet. So break out your paints because you'll probably finish a squad before this episode is done.

Check out the show at http://www.TheD6Generation.com


Thread about our prior episode:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/212485.page

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311089.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311089.page GMT 40k 5th edition.

Here's the Imperial Guard army list I used in both games: [See Attachment]]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311097.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311097.page GMT
HQ:
Epistolary with Storm of Wrath and Fury of the Emperor, Iron Halo

Elite:
5 Terminators with assault cannons

Troops:
5 marines w/ lascannon
5 marines w/ plasma cannon
5 scouts with sniper rifles + a missile launcher
5 bikes with melta bombs, vet sgt with power sword, flamer and melta (Troop due to a Trait)
5 bikes with melta bombs, vet sgt with power sword, flamer and melta (Troop due to a Trait)

Fast Attack:
6 Assault Marines with melta bombs, 2 plasma pistols, vet w/ power fist
1 land speeder w/ melta

Heavy Support:
5 dev. marines with 4 missile launchers

Note: don't remember the 5 man dev squad on the table, he may have changed that out for something else.


This force decimated my IG list, although I did have some hope at the end thanks to my storm troopers and sentinels.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311099.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311099.page GMT HQ:
Chaos Lord w/Mark of Khorne, Daemon Weapon, Bike

Troops:
5 Berzerkers champ, powerweapon, icon
7 Berzerkers, champ, powerweapon, icon
5 lesser daemons
5 lesser daemons
5 lesser daemons
5 lesser daemons

Fast Attack:
5 bikes, mark of khorne, champ, fist
5 bikes, mark of khorne, champ, fist

Heavy Support:
Land Raider, extra armor.

This game was close, it ended up a tie at the end of turn 4 as we ran out of time. I think with another turn I might have been able to pull it out, but it was really tight. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311102.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311102.page GMT
looking forward to gettng some demo games in tomorrow at games day.

( and demoing Warhammer Age of Reckoning!!!)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311248.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311248.page GMT
If I sponsor a segment, do I get any say in what goes in to the segment? I think more 40k is in order... j/k.

Ozymandias, King of Kings]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311302.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311302.page GMT
But seriously, we had some great fun, and I regretfully concur with Russ, if given even HALF of another turn, he would have crushed Khorne's best and brightest in the second game.

~Craig]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311500.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311500.page GMT
I also agree that many vets will be hardsells to greatfully adopt the newest edition. I know many in my area have already said they will just play with 4th ed rules.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311724.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311724.page GMT 40K with the new edition. Keep up the great work guys, I'm looking forward to the next episode!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311865.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/311865.page GMT Very thorough run through of the new edition, and great to hear your opinion based on actual games you played.
Yak's contribution was fantastic too, keep up the good work.
All the podcasts have been great, and getting better each time.

Cheers

Ben]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/312205.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/312205.page GMT D6.

Just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed the show....
First time I have listened to a gamer related cast. Not into podcasts overall but I will definitely keep an eye out for new episodes.

I was (like a lot of others) a bit dubious about some of the changes , but after listening to your overall enthusiasm for the new edition, I find myself actually looking forward to 5th ed!

Any chance of some more detailed analysis on how skimmers actually work in 5th? Do they work? Currently building an Eldar army and playing with Tau. Obviously will be a big concern to both these armies?

Look forward to the next show.....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/312648.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/312648.page GMT
And what a great way to pass the ride. I cant say I have ever heard a better, more detailed or more complete run down of a new game system. I will be recomending that show to everyone who asks me about 5th and will be putting a full news segment in the next TWIW devoted to that episode of D6.

I really think it is, to date, the best resource on learning what is new and what has changed.

Brilliant!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/312865.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/312865.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/312917.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/312917.page GMT
Any chance of some more detailed analysis on how skimmers actually work in 5th? Do they work? Currently building an Eldar army and playing with Tau. Obviously will be a big concern to both these armies?[/quote]


Like all vehicles, the amount of weapons they can shoot while moving has been reduced. 6" or less move means they can fire all their weapons, while 6"-12" move means they can only fire one S5 or more weapon along with any S4 or less weapons.

The Skimmer moving fast rule is now a 4+ save, but ONLY if the vehicle moves more than 12" which means you either have to move fast with your skimmers (and not fire) to get the save or move slowly to shoot and not get the save. That means skimmers who want to shoot generally have to hang around terrain like any other vehicle to give themselves cover.

Finally, Skimmers are hit in CC like any other vehicle now, which means the distance they move matters for what it takes to hit them. Also, the cover save for moving fast only applies to shooting hits. Both of these changes combine to make skimmers much more vulnerable to CC attacks.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/313009.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/313009.page GMT
I've been lurking here for quite a long time, but finally felt the urge to post! I just wanted to drop in and say, I just finished listening to the podcast, and Yakface, I am in 100% agreement with your assessment of GW's handling of FAQ's. The 5th edition rules look great - BUT they do create a lot of unanswered questions about the integration of existing codices into that ruleset. I also will be looking to GW to release a FAQ for each existing codex - and I'm hoping they do as good a job with those as they have done on the rulebook. IF they do that, I think 5th edition will be a huge success!

[quote=yakface]
The Skimmer moving fast rule is now a 4+ save, but ONLY if the vehicle moves more than 12" which means you either have to move fast with your skimmers (and not fire) to get the save or move slowly to shoot and not get the save.
[/quote]

An important thing to note here, is that ONLY Fast Skimmers can do this, unlike 4th edition where you only had to move 6" or more to claim Skimmers Moving Fast. Skimmers took a rather big hit, really - they are just like any other vehicle now, in terms of being hit and taking damage (because there's 4+ Cover Saves everywhere now, anyway - most vehicles are going to be able to claim this most of the time). As a Tau player, I'm bummed - but I understand the need to do away with auto-downgrading Pens to Glancing hits, since Glancing hits can't destroy vehicles anymore - they'd be nearly impossible to kill with the old Skimmers Moving Fast, and the new damage chart. Still, I think this change was mostly due to Eldar skimmers - they will now be reasonable - while Tau skimmers, Piranha in particular, are simply not worth the points anymore. Piranha will get Pen'd all the time now, and will be destroyed at least 50% of the time, since they're open-topped. I hope that a new Tau codex will reduce their points cost - until then, mine will be collecting dust. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/313078.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/313078.page GMT
An important thing to note here, is that ONLY Fast Skimmers can do this, unlike 4th edition where you only had to move 6" or more to claim Skimmers Moving Fast. Skimmers took a rather big hit, really - they are just like any other vehicle now, in terms of being hit and taking damage (because there's 4+ Cover Saves everywhere now, anyway - most vehicles are going to be able to claim this most of the time). As a Tau player, I'm bummed - but I understand the need to do away with auto-downgrading Pens to Glancing hits, since Glancing hits can't destroy vehicles anymore - they'd be nearly impossible to kill with the old Skimmers Moving Fast, and the new damage chart. Still, I think this change was mostly due to Eldar skimmers - they will now be reasonable - while Tau skimmers, Piranha in particular, are simply not worth the points anymore. Piranha will get Pen'd all the time now, and will be destroyed at least 50% of the time, since they're open-topped. I hope that a new Tau codex will reduce their points cost - until then, mine will be collecting dust. [/quote]


Good point, I forgot to mention that only FAST skimmers fire as I described above.

But don't put your Tau vehicles on the shelf just yet (at least the closed-topped ones)! The Disruption pod updgrade is only 5 points but it permanently gives Tau vehicles a 4+ cover save against shots beyond 12". Combined with the multi-tracker (to allow Tau vehicles to fire as fast vehicles, i.e. move up to 6" and still fire all their weapons) and Tau actually come out, in comparison to other races, as the army whose vehicles gain the most benefit from the new rules.

I do agree that the Piranha is over-costed now (as are most fast, light vehicles) since they can't capture objectives anymore (only contest them). But you'll just have to pay those extra 5 pts. for the disruption pods on Piranhas now to make sure they can survive.

That said, I've never been a fan of the Piranha since the codex came out. The Tetra (especially since it COMES with disruption pods built-in), OTOH is pure gold. I wish it was in the codex!


Top few things that make me excited to play Tau in v5:


1) Vehicles with Disruption Pods can move slowly (6") and still fire at full power while getting their 4+ cover save (via disruption pods).


2) The new dedicated vehicle rules means you can take pathfinders and let a Firewarrior squad use the Devilfish after the game starts. In essence, you can finally get Pathfinders without taking an extra transport.


3) small squad sizes + differing gear + shield drones = Crisis suit squads are really able to take advantage of the new wound allocation rules to dump bunches of the 'deadly' wounds onto their shield drones. This unit should be kind of a pain to take out via shooting if played well.


4) Markerlights on a Stealth suit (and marker drones!) can now move and fire. Hello, Stealthsuit team leader with a markerlight!


5) Airbursting Fragmentation Projector & Smart Missile Systems. Essentially, ignoring cover saves in v5? Yes please.


6) No consolidation into enemy units means your whole army isn't toast once the enemy hits your lines if you play things right.


Of course, the ability for enemy CC units to run and get to the Tau quicker and the lack of LOS blocking terrain makes the JSJ technique harder to pull off, but you can't have everything.








]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/313100.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/313100.page GMT Oh - I'm not! I only meant the Piranha are going on the shelf!

[quote]The Disruption pod updgrade is only 5 points but it permanently gives Tau vehicles a 4+ cover save against shots beyond 12". Combined with the multi-tracker (to allow Tau vehicles to fire as fast vehicles, i.e. move up to 6" and still fire all their weapons) and Tau actually come out, in comparison to other races, as the army whose vehicles gain the most benefit from the new rules.[/quote]
Well - only if you don't count the fact that they lose the old Skimmers Moving Fast, and only being hit in CC on 6's! My point was that, compared to how they functioned in 4th ed, skimmers took a big hit - whereas normal vehicles actually got tougher (albeit at reduced ability to move and shoot). That said, Devilfish and Hammerheads are not unplayable - and in fact the Skyray is now looking pretty good - it's just that they will go down a bit easier than they used to.

But anyway - I didn't mean to imply that, overall, I'm unhappy with the prospects for Tau. I simply think that Tau skimmers were the unfortunate collateral damage of an attempt to better balance Eldar skimmers. But, other than that, yes, I'm anxious to play my Tau under the new ruleset - just have to re-evaluate some things, come up with new army lists, and new tactics.

Since you've got me talking now, I'll keep going regarding some of the specifics you brought up (boy, maybe I shoulda stayed silent - I can really ramble ):

[quote]The Tetra (especially since it COMES with disruption pods built-in), OTOH is pure gold. I wish it was in the codex![/quote]
Agree 100% - hopefully it's in the 5th ed codex!

[quote]1) Vehicles with Disruption Pods can move slowly (6") and still fire at full power while getting their 4+ cover save (via disruption pods).[/quote]
Meh - I think most vehicles are going to be obscured most of the time anyway - unless they're on the front lines, like, say, Ork Trukks. My Hammerheads are never going to be out front, especially since they can't move more than 6" and still fire Railgun and SMS (with Multi-trackers - which is what I assume you were talking about), and if the enemy gets closer than 12", the DP does nothing anyway. I'll just put gun drones on 'em, pop those suckers off to harrass, and stay way back, taking advantage of the Railgun's long range. I'll probably take the Disruption Pods anyway, cuz for 5 points, why not make sure you're almost always safe, even if out in the open? Note, however, that I wouldn't be surprised to find the cost of the DP increased once the new codex comes out - at which point it may not be worth taking.

[quote]2) The new dedicated vehicle rules means you can take pathfinders and let a Firewarrior squad use the Devilfish after the game starts. In essence, you can finally get Pathfinders without taking an extra transport.[/quote]
Absolutely! I generally didn't take Pathfinders in 4th ed, preferring to get my Markerlights elsewhere - but Markerlights are going to be a must for Tau in 5th ed, and a squad of Pathfinders will be in every Tau army I play! The Marker Beacon is another good reason to use them, since I'll be Deep Striking suits more often than I ever did in 4th ed.

[quote]3) small squad sizes + differing gear + shield drones = Crisis suit squads are really able to take advantage of the new wound allocation rules to dump bunches of the 'deadly' wounds onto their shield drones. This unit should be kind of a pain to take out via shooting if played well.[/quote]
Well, technically, this is true - but, considering I hardly ever took shield drones for XV-8's in 4th ed, preferring to use JSJ to keep them out of harms way, my way of thinking about this is that I now have to pay 30 points extra in order to make a unit simply [i]resistant[/i] to shooting, whereas in 4th ed. they were often completely impervious to it. So.... yea, overall, I don't see this as an improvement. But, as you made the point in that podcast - I suspect we will see a lot of new terrain coming into play for 40K, and there WILL be more terrain that blocks LoS - in which case, yes, XV-8 squads stand to get tougher to deal with. But until I see that new terrain in play, I'm going to say, XV-8's aren't benefitting here (every piece of terrain where I play, and in fact, I'd say 95% of the terrain I've seen at any tournament I've ever been to, would not block LoS to an XV-8 unit).

[quote]4) Markerlights on a Stealth suit (and marker drones!) can now move and fire. Hello, Stealthsuit team leader with a markerlight![/quote]
Yes! I'm a big fan of the Stealth Marker Team! Minimum size Stealth team, with team leader with hard-wired drone controller and 2 marker drones - somewhat pricey for 3 markerlights, but the new jetpack rules make them terrific! And stealth fields mean they actually will survive awhile, whereas I suspect Pathfinders will become everyone's first target once people see how good markerlights got in 5th edition.

[quote]5) Airbursting Fragmentation Projector & Smart Missile Systems. Essentially, ignoring cover saves in v5? Yes please.[/quote]
Well, I agree with you that that SHOULD be how SMS's work in 5th edition - but I'm going to wait for the FAQ on that one. I wouldn't be surprised if GW overrules that one - it might be the perception that Tau have too many ways to avoid cover saves already. But, if so, yea!

[quote]6) No consolidation into enemy units means your whole army isn't toast once the enemy hits your lines if you play things right.[/quote]
This is a BIG one! Honestly, when I first saw that 5th edition Beta PDF floating around the internet, I thought Tau might be caput! The Run rule, and the Flanking Reserves rule, meant that you weren't going to be able to avoid assaults for as long, and the new Morale modifiers meant instant death almost all the time for Tau in assaults - I thank the Ethereals that GW thought to add this no consolidation into enemy units! Without it, I honestly think the Tau would have been unplayable in 5th edition.

[quote]Of course, the ability for enemy CC units to run and get to the Tau quicker and the lack of LOS blocking terrain makes the JSJ technique harder to pull off, but you can't have everything.[/quote]
Agreed.

Heh - maybe I come across as a complainer - but, actually, I'm looking forward to playing in 5th edition! I think the changes will make the game much more balanced, and I definately appreciate the attention to making a clear, unambiguous ruleset!

Lastly, I apologize for getting this thread off-topic! Great podcast!!!!





]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/313351.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/313351.page GMT GW fan though this episode was brilliant. I haven't played 40k for a while but with all the news of 5 ed I'm now really wanting to scratch that itch as it were.

Raef 'Garbage and Transvestites' Granger, lol, even better than Bollywood.

Keep it up guys.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314079.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314079.page GMT

1) Ramming is definitly a 'tank only' thing. We were a little unsure of this during the show.

2) Yakface was correct about deepstriking (Yak correct? No suprise there) if ANY model in the unit can't be placed, you roll on the mishap table.

3) We mentioned the ability to "Sponsor Segments in Episode 10". This is now available on our website: http://www.TheD6Generation.com

Thanks for listening,

Russ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314212.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314212.page GMT IIRC) can ram. Tanks get +1S to the hit when ramming.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314333.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314333.page GMT IIRC) can ram. Tanks get +1S to the hit when ramming.[/quote]

This is what Yak and I got stuck on in the show, but upon further review we agreed they can't. Check the raming section. All that stuff is under the special rules section for "Tanks". It is a subset of "Tank Shock". So basically if you can tank shock, you can ram. The +1 is there because the "rammer" takes a strength hit back from the "rammie".

If you look in the new ork codex you'll see that the "Ram" wargear allows the trukk to "tank shock" (which would now included Ramming) and add's +2 to the front armor for tank shock which now makes sense under the 5th ed rules.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314354.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314354.page GMT
One aspect of the new LOS rules that I am not looking forward to is the sore back/creaky knees from hunching over and/or squating next to the table to get a "model's-eye view". Maybe someone should develop a gaming table with a hydraulic lift for us older/taller gamers.

Transvestites & Trash. Classic!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314371.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314371.page GMT I enjoyed hearing y'all wax enthusiastic about 5th ed after being somewhat dubious about it before. I really think this edition fixes a lot of problems, and if properly supported will be great fun. So far, my experiences have mirrored those on the show, with the games feeling much closer and much more involved.

Yak, it was nice to put a voice to Sean Connery's face, and it was interesting to hear that the byline on the GW faqs thanking you was done without contacting you. Don't know why, but I found that funny.

On the topic of Piranhas, maybe I am just using them differently than everyone else, but am I the only one whose considering taking them more often in 5th than in 4th?

My reasoning for this is that I never seemed to lose them to penetrating hits, but to being glanced by bolters/shootas/etc, which now would have a harder time of doing that. Also, what with the plethora of cover saves our terrain set offers my opponent (even vehicles), spending one turn moving flat-out, then one turn of normal movement seems like it would be very useful to get shots at vehicles while denying them cover. Just my 2 cents. Curious to know what others think.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314394.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314394.page GMT [quote]4) Markerlights on a Stealth suit (and marker drones!) can now move and fire. Hello, Stealthsuit team leader with a markerlight![/quote]
Yes! I'm a big fan of the Stealth Marker Team! Minimum size Stealth team, with team leader with hard-wired drone controller and 2 marker drones - somewhat pricey for 3 markerlights, but the new jetpack rules make them terrific! And stealth fields mean they actually will survive awhile, whereas I suspect Pathfinders will become everyone's first target once people see how good markerlights got in 5th edition.
[/quote]

Sorry for the OT, but with the new save rules, it would probably be better to take drone-controllers on all 3 guys, each with one drone each so that you don't lose all your marker lights to one unlucky save. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314398.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314398.page GMT GW store to try out the 5th Edition with the armies we've been painting (Tyranids and Tau). The folks at the Mall of Georgia GW store were extremely helpful, and walked us through a lot of the basics before turning us loose on the 5th edition rules.

As someone who found the 4th edition a bit confusing as we were starting out, I really agree with your assessment that the 5th edition is great for new players. Where our first few games of 4th edition were somewhat frustrating and confusing for my 11 year old (and me), the 5th edition was a lot clearer, and we had a blast playing.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314582.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314582.page GMT
On the topic of Piranhas, maybe I am just using them differently than everyone else, but am I the only one whose considering taking them more often in 5th than in 4th?

My reasoning for this is that I never seemed to lose them to penetrating hits, but to being glanced by bolters/shootas/etc, which now would have a harder time of doing that. Also, what with the plethora of cover saves our terrain set offers my opponent (even vehicles), spending one turn moving flat-out, then one turn of normal movement seems like it would be very useful to get shots at vehicles while denying them cover. Just my 2 cents. Curious to know what others think.[/quote]


You have to remember that in previous editions your Piranhas could *only* be glanced if they moved over 6". That isn't the case anymore so you will definitely suffer much more penetrating hits now.

One positive that wasn't brought up in the podcast is that open-topped vehicles no longer suffer a two hits when hit by a blast weapon, so at least your Piranhas won't get nailed by blasts/templates quite as easy anymore.

The other thing that many people may not know about vehicles (and monstrous creatures) and cover saves, even though Russ brought it up in the podcast, is that they have to have 50% of the model (or facing in the case of vehicles) [b]physically[/b] obscured by the terrain to get the cover bonus. Just sitting your vehicle behind some area terrain won't cut it.

That means the turn you move slowly with your Piranhas to shoot them yo need to find some serious piece of cover to get them behind to make sure they get the cover save.


]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314677.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314677.page GMT As someone who has not played 40K since 3rd I have got a fire burning now to get my Thousand Sons out and get them battle ready. I'll still keep playing real 40K - Epic - though as it just makes more sense.

Anyway, keep up the great work.
D.
Northern Ireland.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314920.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314920.page GMT
Greets
Schepp himself]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314928.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/314928.page GMT
Greets
Schepp himself[/quote]

The Rapid fire segment, which is just over 5 minutes long, is a bit wierd, and hard for Non-English speakers to follow. Rest assured the whole show is not like that. If you fast forward past the first 5 minutes, you'll see what I mean.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/315109.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/315109.page GMT The Rapid fire segment, which is just over 5 minutes long, is a bit wierd, and hard for Non-English speakers to follow. Rest assured the whole show is not like that. If you fast forward past the first 5 minutes, you'll see what I mean.
[/quote]

It's even hard for English speakers to follow. I thought that was the idea.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/315954.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/315954.page GMT
Ep9 of the D6 podcast made me go back into the archives.

Listened to your thoughts in Ep1b regards what GW need to do to 40K as a game system.
Memory Jogger - please forgive the paraphrasing:

"GW need to put the current ruleset into specialist games. If 5th ed is just a rules tweak, then it wont fix the game."

Is that a fairly good summary of what was said?

4 months have gone by....

What's your opinion now? I guess I am asking - Is the new ruleset enough of a change? Have GW done enough to fix 40K? Are you guys going back to 40K?


Also found your discussion on PP vs. GW interesting.
If I might comment about pricing from an overseas viewpoint?

There is a huge disparity between what the US gamer pays for their gaming and what the Aussie gamer pays.
eg. Baneblade tank in US costs $95. In Australia, that same tank is $160 !! Aust dollar currently buys about 95c US.
For price parity, Aust gamers should be paying around $100 ?

I am not an economist, maybe I am missing something? BUT how can such a difference be justified?
I have heard the argument that the price charged in any particular market is what the local market will bear?
In other words Aussies are prepared to pay 40% more for the same products as the Yanks?

This is doing nothing for my local game store. I am a firm believer in supporting local business. BUT there is supporting local business and then there is being stupid.
At the moment, I have the new rulebook on backorder with GW US. Combining postage with a few other local gamers, we are landing the book at between 30 to 35% cheaper than we can buy it locally....

The local GW attitude to the stockists is "too bad". Perhaps their thinking is "a GW sale is a GW sale regardless of where it originates?".
What are the long term effects of this attitude?

I should point out that GW are not alone in this price disparity. Computer/console games have a similar problem.
Again, I have heard marketing types state that price charged is what the local market expects to pay.
Perhaps we need to be cleverer? Perhaps more consumers need to boycott the local market and shop elsewhere to put pressure on the local price?
Instead of all shrugging our shoulders and accepting the local price?

I know this doesn't really effect the US market. But bear in mind that you guys have it pretty good price wise by comparison!




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[quote=GavDorro]Ep9 of the D6 podcast made me go back into the archives.

Listened to your thoughts in Ep1b regards what GW need to do to 40K as a game system.
Memory Jogger - please forgive the paraphrasing:

"GW need to put the current ruleset into specialist games. If 5th ed is just a rules tweak, then it wont fix the game."

Is that a fairly good summary of what was said?

4 months have gone by....

What's your opinion now? I guess I am asking - Is the new ruleset enough of a change? Have GW done enough to fix 40K? Are you guys going back to 40K?
[/quote]

Well, to be fair, 5th edition is more than a rules tweak. The changes to wound allocation, LoS, and HtH combat are substantial. In fact it is one of the reasons in Episode 9 I said that I think the existing 40k fans would be less likely to enjoy 5th than new and/or returning players.

I really do think GW did as radical changes as possible within the framework that "all current codexes must still work."

That said, I DO still believe that the game could benefit from a 'reboot,' i.e. a ground up redesign of all mechanics. I like what I see in 5th, but I don't think it will pull me away from my new found love of WM. WM just plays so clean.




[quote]
Also found your discussion on PP vs. GW interesting.
If I might comment about pricing from an overseas viewpoint?

There is a huge disparity between what the US gamer pays for their gaming and what the Aussie gamer pays.
eg. Baneblade tank in US costs $95. In Australia, that same tank is $160 !! Aust dollar currently buys about 95c US.
For price parity, Aust gamers should be paying around $100 ?

I am not an economist, maybe I am missing something? BUT how can such a difference be justified?
I have heard the argument that the price charged in any particular market is what the local market will bear?
In other words Aussies are prepared to pay 40% more for the same products as the Yanks?
[/quote]

To be clear, when we mentioned the price of the Baneblade we were talking about the NEW PLASTIC Baneblade, not the old Forgeworld one. (which is much more expensive) Hope that helps explain it.
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I wasn't sure if his mention and concern about future FAQs was the remaining 15%, or if there was something else he wished would have been addressed.

Very interesting show - I enjoyed it.

Mez]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/317710.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/317710.page GMT [/quote]

Hi Russ

Yes, I realise you were talking about the new kit....The prices I am quoting ARE for the new kit !! So, say I wanted to buy a Baneblade. I would probably log onto GW US and land it in Australia for about $130 including postage. $30 cheaper than I can buy it local? It just doesn't make sense.....

It's interesting that GW US's answer to this seems to be that they are now adding 10% VAT (actually GST in Australia) to my purchases where they previously did not.

This change occurred with the recent "fix" of the GW site. So I would say, we have seen a couple of major changes with the website(none of them good). You mentioned the demise of the bits service. How cool was that service!? Now, we have what would amount to about 4 pages in a bits catalogue.....Question? What happened to all those bits overnight? Did GW Tennessee warehouse just throw all those bits away? Are they stockpiling them? Even if you are culling the range. If you have the stock, why not continue to sell them through? I bought the "Battle of five armies" box set on special from my LGS. I had intended to buy some of the extras for it over time. I landed some elven calvary for it late last year. Now it seems I cant get a single extra unit for the game. This has occurred overnight! Very strange way to do business.....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/317815.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/213051/317815.page GMT
I wasn't sure if his mention and concern about future FAQs was the remaining 15%, or if there was something else he wished would have been addressed.

Very interesting show - I enjoyed it.

Mez[/quote]


85% was a pretty rough estimate, and yes most of the things I wish they'd change stem from the fact that those ideas are 'locked into' the existing codices.

I too would really like a full 'reboot' of the system (wiping out all the existing codices), but I understand that such a thing is very unpopular with many players and is pretty much a disaster from a marketing standpoint of the game (codices, besides containing rules, are also a tool for retailers to sell models).

One of the most fundamental flaws with the game, IMHO is the force organization chart. I would love to see it changed to something similar to fantasy, but of course doing so would contradict all the existing codices.

I'd ike to see vehicle fire arcs written into vehicle codex entries, as well as a descriptor in each vehicle's codex entry telling what weapons were "main" or "defensive" rather than having them on a rigid Strength based system. This would allow individual vehicles within a codex to be balanced at the designer's whims rather than having to create special rules to allow a vehicle to fire more than one weapon on the move.

I like the idea of 'Kill Points' (i.e. a simplified version of victory points) but I think they would need to be assigned on a unit by unit basis in each codex to make them really truly balanced. But again, this is something that really should be tackled in each codex rather than the main rules.


When it comes to the main game rules, I am quite pleased but I really would have liked to see them address the issue (IMHO) of Monstrous Creatures (and other multi-wound models that ignore instant death) being far too resilient. I would have *loved* for them to include a rule that weapons which [b]always[/b] inflict instant death regardless of a model's toughness cause models who ignore the instant death rule to suffer D3 wounds instead of just one.

That way, something like a Force weapon would still be useful against creatures who are immune to instant death but wouldn't necessarily be completely lethal. I think it would have been a good balance.


Also, I'm not entirely happy with how they attempted to balance vehicles by making them have to stay still in order to fire all their weapons. I think a balance *was* necessary, but with everything else in the game gaining mobility with the inclusion of the 'run' rule, vehicles really seem to be an oddity now.


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Well done Gents... Kudos.

It's good to see that even the self proclaimed grumpy gamers see the changes as welcome and positive overall. Nice to see that 5th adds more dynamics and simplicity to the game.

On a side note... I think we should start a letter writing campaign to have Yakface added to the GW pay-roll... Your FAQ is outstanding and GW has certainly benefited from all of your hard work.


-beef


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