http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/6.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802070.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802070.page GMT ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802089.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802089.page GMT
My grammer on the same scale can be as bad as I want. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802446.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802446.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802509.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802509.page GMT GW needs to shift several tens of thousands of assault troops boxes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802533.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802533.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802542.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802542.page GMT GW needs to shift several tens of thousands of assault troops boxes.[/quote]

Would have been able to do that if they would have made SM Command Squads take jump packs and Assault Marines as Troops.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802546.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802546.page GMT
Planetary Empires, Space Hulk, Space Wolves with Skaven in November.

There's also some WOTR/LOTR stuff too... but...ummm.... .. I don't really pay that much attention to that.


[b]IF [/b]Space Hulk is indeed the retro tastic themed game we believe it will be then I would suggest that either Blood Angels or Tyranids might be good spin offs to come from it in some form or other.

Phil Kelly is writing the Dark Eldar codex currently, Andy Hoare is working on the Beastman ( Beastmen ? ) army book. Don't expect Dark Eldar within a year of this date in my opinion though, I still think late next year.

Oh, I'm not sure but I think that Hulk will be a one time print run when it's gone it is gone affair. I'm not 100% on that...but 70% plus methinks. I'm hoping that what I've heard refers only to a possible limited edition or collectors type edition....but... hmm... that doesn't quite feel right to my GW spider senses.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802554.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802554.page GMT WD, it says in 'news in Brief' that Jeremy Vetock is eating green sweets in the corner of the Studio. This i think means O&G army book. But Skaven have crossed my mind in the last 2 minutes.

and Reds8n, there is no Space hulk coming out. Its going to be an IG 2nd wave.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802648.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802648.page GMT and Reds8n, there is no Space hulk coming out. Its going to be an IG 2nd wave.[/quote]

Really ? Hmm.. we'll see. Because I think you're wrong in the first part of the above quote there. No reason for super code named project at GW HQ just for the 2nd wave of guard stuff I'm afraid. I would suggest we might start hearing more HUlk stuff around mid to end of August.

This would be the guard 2nd wave that we've all already seen would it ? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802651.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802651.page GMT
No, they're releasing new models for Straken and a bunch of other characters.

But i doubt that's all coming out in September. It was rather... short.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802665.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802665.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802715.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802715.page GMT
Im going to buy 2.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802717.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802717.page GMT WD says that Straken and HARKER will be released later this year, not alongside the tanks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802725.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802725.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802785.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802785.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802791.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802791.page GMT
Im going to buy 2.[/quote]

Then the big question is, card tiles or plastic?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802875.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802875.page GMT
Im going to buy 2.[/quote]

Then the big question is, card tiles or plastic?[/quote]

And where are the mentioned pics ? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802889.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802889.page GMT WD, it says in 'news in Brief' that Jeremy Vetock is eating green sweets in the corner of the Studio. This i think means O&G army book. But Skaven have crossed my mind in the last 2 minutes.
[/quote]

Skaven tend to eat greens stuff, that's true.

Nice, even though i have no capabilities to update my skaven army in the near future (serious non-buy vow before I "finish" an exising army)

Greets
Schepp himself]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802932.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802932.page GMT OP, but would it be a good idea to have a stickied "The Upcoming Release Schedule, As We Know It" topic that updates when we find these things out, so that we don't have to have new release schedule questions every week?

I'm interested to see what a Skaven update would look like.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802973.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/802973.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/803121.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/803121.page GMT [/quote]I thought that the single question mark I put at the end of the message subject conveyed inquisitiveness as opposed to being declaritive just fine. No offense, but dont look for punctuation upgrades on my part soon, especially when the current state and usage ref: Engrish language are just fine and have been for quite a while.

[quote=hammerofulric]You've got Blood Angels, so I don't expect a new codex anytime soon.[/quote] I, for one, do not. However, I can hope. And here's a question for the Dakka at Large: I remember reading that they chose to do the BA codex (such as it is) the way they did and how they did because of the excessive number of individual documents that previously were needed (what, 4?). Did the BA dex come in it's proper order in the release schedule? Did it actually take up a release "slot" that could have gone to another dex/army book, or was it just chucked into a WD? I don't remember much lead up to it's release, it seemed kinda outa the blue to me, but to be honest I wasnt (and still dont) following the news on those subjects very well at all. Is it possible that the BA release was a stop-gap measure more to address the number of documents needed, and wasnt considered a full "release" the way IG was? Just a thought. I'm not suggesting that any one codex or AB should be pushed further back, or that marines need ANOTHER update, or that other books are not in more need of update. I know some people get really butt-hurt when this subject comes up, but that's not my goal. I'm just asking some questions.

[quote=reds8n][quote=BrookM]Planetary Empires, Skaven, Space Wolves[/quote]

Planetary Empires, Space Hulk, Space Wolves with Skaven in November.

There's also some WOTR/LOTR stuff too... but...ummm.... .. I don't really pay that much attention to that.


[b]IF [/b]Space Hulk is indeed the retro tastic themed game we believe it will be then I would suggest that either Blood Angels or Tyranids might be good spin offs to come from it in some form or other.

Phil Kelly is writing the Dark Eldar codex currently, Andy Hoare is working on the Beastman ( Beastmen ? ) army book. Don't expect Dark Eldar within a year of this date in my opinion though, I still think late next year.

Oh, I'm not sure but I think that Hulk will be a one time print run when it's gone it is gone affair. I'm not 100% on that...but 70% plus methinks. I'm hoping that what I've heard refers only to a possible limited edition or collectors type edition....but... hmm... that doesn't quite feel right to my GW spider senses.[/quote]

THanks for wading in with fairly reliable info, red. Always good to see you writing out your "opinions" on what's coming up. Funny how those opinions have an unusually high score in the black.

[quote=Majesticgoat]I think that there was a Blood Angels Codex released as 5th Edition updated Chapter Approved articles that were shown in White Dwarf?[/quote] Yes, and it causes heart ache when mentioned on this forum for BA players and haters alike.

[quote=Railguns]Not to disrespect the OP, but would it be a good idea to have a stickied "The Upcoming Release Schedule, As We Know It" topic that updates when we find these things out, so that we don't have to have new release schedule questions every week?

I'm interested to see what a Skaven update would look like.[/quote] No dis taken as I think it would be a wonderful idea.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/803156.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/803156.page GMT OP, but would it be a good idea to have a stickied "The Upcoming Release Schedule, As We Know It" topic that updates when we find these things out, so that we don't have to have new release schedule questions every week?[/quote]
This is an excellent idea ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/803162.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/803162.page GMT
Yes and it sucked almost as badly as the Dark Angels codex.

But at least DAs got a proper codex....]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/805794.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/805794.page GMT
Yes and it sucked almost as badly as the Dark Angels codex.

But at least DAs got a proper codex....[/quote]
Huh? It was FREE, and is among the more playable SM Codies to come out from GW.

I hardly call that "sucking".]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806196.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806196.page GMT DA Codex afforded the Dark Angels.

Blood Angels got Assault Squads as Troops

Dark Angels got accurate teleporting for Deathwing Squads. Very "Hunt the Fallen" that was.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806221.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806221.page GMT
and Reds8n, there is no Space hulk coming out. Its going to be an IG 2nd wave.[/quote]

Shouts out to Mr. Scryer in the darkness for the spot and the translation;

[quote]Cентябр = September


Большая коробочная игра = Big box game

Ha данный момент нет ничего подобного = At the moment there is nothing like it

Oграниченный тираж = Limited edition

Bы можете только догадываться = You can only guess



17ое Aвгуста = 17th August[/quote]]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806399.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806399.page GMT GW get the scoop first?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806427.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806427.page GMT GW just likes them better because of their big furry hats]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806437.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806437.page GMT IG with big furry hats in plastic. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806440.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806440.page GMT GW get the scoop first?[/quote]

Blame :

Bush/Obama/Gun Control/Religion...wait! Oh, sorry, thought I was on the OT board again.

Timing I guess, or maybe GW are trying to make a push there ? Has to happen somewhere, and it's as good of a place as any. For this sort of thing anyway.

In fairness this might not be about SPace HUlk, perhaps it's some other super secret project they've got or been working on.

...but I doubt it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806462.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806462.page GMT
[quote=Alpharius][quote=grizgrin][quote=H.B.M.C.]Questions marks Grizgrin! Question marks! You've been here long enough to know that. [/quote]I thought that the single question mark I put at the end of the message subject conveyed inquisitiveness as opposed to being declaritive just fine. No offense, but dont look for punctuation upgrades on my part soon, especially when the current state and usage ref: Engrish language are just fine and have been for quite a while.
[/quote]

Just so you know, [b]I[/b] put the question mark in the title after I saw that you forgot to add it in.

Of course, H.B.M.C. replied to your post before I could finish editing it in, so, there you have it!

(Just want you to be sure that you're not losing your mind or anything... )[/quote]]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806855.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/806855.page GMT
Yes and it sucked almost as badly as the Dark Angels codex.

But at least DAs got a proper codex....[/quote]
Huh? It was FREE, and is among the more playable SM Codies to come out from GW.

I hardly call that "sucking".[/quote]

I hardly call the White Dwarf free. Wasn't the Codex in two separate WD's? And what are they? 7$ Each? Call it free if you like, but even for a "free" one it wasn't that cool.

Greets
Schepp himself ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807060.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807060.page GMT GW's website. For us, it was effectively FREE.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807076.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807076.page GMT GW, and has been for some time.

Unless you factor in the cost of the paper and ink involved in printing it out, but that is a bit on the insignificant side, especially considering the cost associated with most GW products...

EDIT: Ninja'd by JHDD!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807081.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807081.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807184.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807184.page GMT DA Codex afforded the Dark Angels.

Blood Angels got Assault Squads as Troops

Dark Angels got accurate teleporting for Deathwing Squads. Very "Hunt the Fallen" that was.[/quote]

MARGINALLY more character than DA. However this "codex" still suffered from, "The Great Creative Drought" circa 2007-08"
[b]
Things they did well:[/b]
Assault squads as troops
Stopped treating super-charged engines like bombs
Brought some of the vehicle prices up to date.
Made BA pay for DC so every other player could get their panties out of knots.

[b]What they did poorly:[/b]
Removed all Sanquinary High Priests. They all went on holiday I guess since there was nothing in the storyline explaining this. The lowly Sanquinary Priests are still available in the overpriced Honor Guard squads, but their superiors? Magically Gone.

Got rid of furious charge and gave it to orks. I can see making them pay for it, but just snipping it all out except for Corbulo? Again, doesn't make any sense.

Gave a psychic power that is difficult to use- Wings of Sanquinius. Tying your HQ to your unit via repeated dice rolls = the dice will fail out at some point. Not well thought out- the ability to attach HQ units to squads should not be based on chance. Chaplains & Captains get a jump pack. Librarians? Nope.

Almost all options removed. This plagued several codexs and it's a horrible thing to do. Every unit looks cookie cutter because it only has one good option to upgrade. Only plasma pistol upgrades for assault troops? Really? The overpriced pistol that isn't worth taking? What happened to the flame throwers or other... you know... ASSAULT weapons? Again, while this was not specific to just the Blood Angels codex, it crushed the life out being creative with it; had about as much flexibility as the Necron codex does. Because of this, there are almost no Blood Angels players in our area now, especially after the new SM codex came out with 1.2 billionty upgrade options.

Combat Squads... so many horrible horrible things associated with those two words, but we'll keep it to just a few points. First: Because all my basic units were bought in 5 OR 10 man squads I found myself getting 1530 out of a 1550 pt list. Normally I could add or drop A SINGLE marine out of a squad to make up the points, but the inflexibility of combat squads made me have to dump entire units instead. Brutally retarded. Lastly, it cut back on the ability to attach a ground HQ choice (named characters) to a unit since a Rhino only had 10 seats. It was a land raider, hoofing it, or wait for someone to die so the HQ could hop in the transport with the other 9 marines.

When you have a codex, you want your players to struggle to make their lists awesome, not to have them struggling to make the lists work.

[IMG]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/george852/NewCodex.jpg[/IMG]]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807247.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807247.page GMT BA Codex is still "good", despite the shortcomings you listed.

The "fixes" like AM Troops and bundling in the DC cost more than outweigh the limited options and so forth. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807268.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807268.page GMT

Every codex gives the army something more than what it had before. Counting fixes for old problems should not count as one of those things. Those are fixes, not perks. It's like saying, "We now can sell you Dawn of War 2: It's the exactly the same as Dawn of War but without the bugs!"

General design: When you add MORE options to a list, it inspires creativity. People spend more time thinking about customizing their lists outside of the game. This generates more unique looking lists, and promotes the hobby since people are excited about what they're doing. It's up to the designers to make sure that they think through the new stuff and to make sure that the combos they put in the codex can not be exploited. More is always better than less.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807293.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807293.page GMT

Every codex gives the army something more than what it had before. Counting fixes for old problems should not count as one of those things. Those are fixes, not perks. It's like saying, "We now can sell you Dawn of War 2: It's the exactly the same as Dawn of War but without the bugs!"

General design: When you add MORE options to a list, it inspires creativity. People spend more time thinking about customizing their lists outside of the game. This generates more unique looking lists, and promotes the hobby since people are excited about what they're doing. It's up to the designers to make sure that they think through the new stuff and to make sure that the combos they put in the codex can not be exploited. More is always better than less.[/quote]

I 100% agree with you moopy. I have suffered through the loss of many an options as a DA player, and feel like they lost the character of the army.
Oh great, I get to take bikes as troops if I take the 205 point special character, same as vanilla marines now.
But I also get to take termies as troops? I had that before but didnt have to pay for another special character.

Look, no more Hunt the Fallen, distrust allies, or anything else. Its not adding things to make them better, its taking away for god knows what reason.

I really dont mind loosing some special characters, but loosing the rules that make the army FEEL like the army they are trying to sell makes no sense. I feel bad for BA players, and if this trend continues, Ill feel bad for SW players as well....unless they get all the stuff from the vanilla codex, then Ill just despise them more.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807343.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807343.page GMT

As I see it: costing DC is definitely a fix, along with removing the Stupidity tests; AM as Troops are a perk, as no other MEQs have JP Troops.

I see the MEQ design space segmented into different flavors: BA, BT, DA, SM, SW, CSM, and Necrons before secondary options are applied. Too much overlap is stifling (as in 2E, carrying through to 4E), and the different flavors might as well not exist.

Too many options (e.g. Traits, Doctrines, Craftworlds, and Legions), and GW cannot balance them adequately, to make them sufficiently attractive to the point that they are used - I call this "false choice". I'd rather see GW make 3 or 4 really good, well-thought out options, than several dozen poorly-conceived options of which only 3 or 4 end up being used.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807400.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807400.page GMT Things they did well:[/b]
Assault squads as troops[/quote]
I don't get why BA get assault squads as troops. They are supposed to be a [b]codex[/b] chapter with a geneseed flaw, not a flying circus.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807418.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807418.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807423.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807423.page GMT
Doctrines and Traits were a false choice, because while they were great concepts they were executed horribly.

But don't try to lump them together DD, that's just being disingenuous (which we know you [i]never[/i] are).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807425.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807425.page GMT
I'd rather have a codex that allows me take a Sam Hainn or World Eaters army but doesn't force me into a box.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807430.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807430.page GMT
Saim-Hann Jetbikes vs. Biel-Tan Aspects? False choice.

Night Lords 4th Fast vs Iron Warriors 4th Heavy? False choice again. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807434.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807434.page GMT
Uhh... no.

A false choice is when you're forced to give something up that you were never going to take in the first place or choose between something you want or something you were never going to take. Two examples:

eg 1. Restricted Troop Types for Guard - I was never going to take Ogryn, SWSs, Ratlings, Priests, Psykers and so on, but by 'giving them up', I get CoD and Drop Troops for free. This is a false choice.
eg 2. 'We Stand Alone' Negative Trait - I was never planning on taking any Inquisitorial allies in my army, but by taking this option that forbids me from doing something I wasn't going to do anyway, I gain a beneficial Trait. This is a false choice.

Choosing to play World Eaters when you weren't planning on playing Slaaneshi is as much a false choice as choosing to play Black Templars when I didn't want any Wolf Guard in my army...

[quote=Ozymandias]I'd rather have a codex that allows me take a Sam Hainn or World Eaters army but doesn't force me into a box.[/quote]

I don't remember either of the last Chaos or Eldar armies 'forcing' anyone into a box. Or are you buying into that 'less is more' nonsense that DD's been spouting for 2 years now?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807583.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807583.page GMT I don't get why BA get assault squads as troops. They are supposed to be a [b]codex[/b] chapter with a geneseed flaw, not a flying circus.[/quote]

BA were designed as a chapter with a fearsome reputation for devastating assaults. Take a look at most of the pictures of BA since the codex and you have a majority of them being an assault squad hopping about being assaulty. For better or for worse this has translated into the Red Thirst being swapped for assault squads as troops.

[quote=JohnHwangDD] Too many options (e.g. Traits, Doctrines, Craftworlds, and Legions), and GW cannot balance them adequately, to make them sufficiently attractive to the point that they are used[/quote]

I'm sorry, but that's the design team's JOB. It's done in other games, it's done in video games, it's done all the time. Yes, it's hard, but not impossible, and it's something they signed up for. This is an area that has been lax for a long time- not enough play testing the units to see what works on the board and what looks good on paper. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807611.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807611.page GMT GW cannot balance them adequately, to make them sufficiently attractive to the point that they are used[/quote]
I'm sorry, but that's the design team's JOB.

It's done in other games, it's done in video games, it's done all the time. Yes, it's hard, but not impossible, and it's something they signed up for. This is an area that has been lax for a long time- not enough play testing the units to see what works on the board and what looks good on paper. [/quote]
Hey, I thought you were done!

Exactly right. And part of that job is to decide what options to offer, and not to offer things that they cannot support, rather than to just throw stuff out and see what sticks.

It's interesting that you choose video games as an example. If you look at a "classic" like Warcraft 2, how many different choices were there, and how much balancing was required? IIRC, there was only one slot that differed, and the difference was healing vs extra damage. Otherwise, the balance was identical. And when Blizzard strayed from the identical army design in Starcraft, they had to patch and rebalance after the game was released. I guess Blizzard's designers must suck, and not know shit about playtesting or balance if they can't release with perfect balance out of the gate... ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807711.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/807711.page GMT Hey, I thought you were done!
[/quote]

Oh I was all done with Blood Angles. We've had our go-around with that.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/808049.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/808049.page GMT Uhh... no.

A false choice is when you're forced to give something up that you were never going to take in the first place or choose between something you want or something you were never going to take. Two examples:

eg 1. Restricted Troop Types for Guard - I was never going to take Ogryn, SWSs, Ratlings, Priests, Psykers and so on, but by 'giving them up', I get CoD and Drop Troops for free. This is a false choice.
eg 2. 'We Stand Alone' Negative Trait - I was never planning on taking any Inquisitorial allies in my army, but by taking this option that forbids me from doing something I wasn't going to do anyway, I gain a beneficial Trait. This is a false choice.

Choosing to play World Eaters when you weren't planning on playing Slaaneshi is as much a false choice as choosing to play Black Templars when I didn't want any Wolf Guard in my army...[/quote]

Fair enough. I think we may have different opinions on False Choice but that's a good point.

[quote][quote=Ozymandias]I'd rather have a codex that allows me take a Sam Hainn or World Eaters army but doesn't force me into a box.[/quote]

I don't remember either of the last Chaos or Eldar armies 'forcing' anyone into a box. Or are you buying into that 'less is more' nonsense that DD's been spouting for 2 years now?[/quote]

Using the cult lists forced me to use only the units allowed. The new Chaos dex I can still pretty much make a cult list but if I want my Noise Marines to have some Berzerkers, that is still an option. My memory is fuzzy with the Eldar Craftworld list but I believe it was pretty much the same, my choices were restricted if I wanted to play Iyanden for example. The new dex allows me to play Iyanden but still gives me more flexibility.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/808613.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/808613.page GMT
Was the Alaitoc ranger army really that good? I never saw anyone play that army... ever. I played eldar in 3rd (Biel Tan) and always wanted to try the ranger army, but shied away because of the lack of anti tank.

GG]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/809138.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/809138.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/809369.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/809369.page GMT Against non-Mech?

Yes!

I fielded it a couple of times with 2x5 Pathfinders and 8x3 Rangers for a whopping 10 rolls on the disruption table.

It's not that it's so strong per se, but that it is incredibly annoying. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/809547.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/809547.page GMT
Using the cult lists forced me to use only the units allowed. The new Chaos dex I can still pretty much make a cult list but if I want my Noise Marines to have some Berzerkers, that is still an option. My memory is fuzzy with the Eldar Craftworld list but I believe it was pretty much the same, my choices were restricted if I wanted to play Iyanden for example. The new dex allows me to play Iyanden but still gives me more flexibility.[/quote]

Not to sound all Preachy over fluff(Fluffeachy? Preluffy?). Chaos Cult lists were supposed to be [u]Fluffy[/u], that was the point. In GW fluff you would never find Zerkers working along side NoiseMarine's. The only way to make that option was to take a basic Black legion army, then you could take anything.
Not to be insulting but it sounds like you want to make an army with all the great choices and non of the drawbacks, A) where is the fun in that? B) If you know your army is going to win no matter what.. why play?(just an over exaggeration for effect).


[i]Have we gone off topic?[/i]]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/809604.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/809604.page GMT
What, like how playing Codex Dark Angels 'forces' me to only use the units allowed by Codex Dark Angels? Do you actually consider this a real line of thought Ozy? Really? By that 'logic' all Codices 'force' you to use the units that are only in that Codex.

Which is of course the [i]intent[/i] of a Codex, so what's the problem?

[quote=Ozymandias]The new Chaos dex I can still pretty much make a cult list but if I want my Noise Marines to have some Berzerkers, that is still an option.[/quote]

Oddly enough, using the real Chaos Codex you could do that as well. You could have Noise Marines and Berzerkers in the same army. The only thing that could stop you were the rules for the rival Gods, which was a wonderfully fluffy rule that now seems absent from even the damned Daemons Codex.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people who claim that the new Chaos Codex has given them more options when, in fact, it's just taken away 8 different lists and left the 9th remaining list less fluffy than it was before. Oh well... at least you're not 'forced' into obeying the fluff and only taking Khornate units in a Khornate army.

[quote=Ozymandias]My memory is fuzzy with the Eldar Craftworld list but I believe it was pretty much the same, my choices were restricted if I wanted to play Iyanden for example.[/quote]

You really truly believe this, that these sub-dexes somehow 'forced' you to play a certain way and that this is somehow different from the Space Wolf or Dark Eldar Codices requiring you to use units only from the Space Wolf of Dark Eldar Codices (respectively). Was this some sort of epiphany you had that I haven't had yet? Did you wake up one morning and go:

"[i]Feth me, I can't take Noise Marines in my Death Guard army! I'm... restricted! This Codex is terrible because it forces me to play a list to the fluff of that army!!!!![/i]".

Really?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/809628.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/809628.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/809849.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/809849.page GMT lol.html][img]http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/9/17/53810_sm-lol.jpg[/img][/url]]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/980518.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/980518.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/980545.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/980545.page GMT
and Reds8n, there is no Space hulk coming out. Its going to be an IG 2nd wave.[/quote]

aahhh...good times.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/980955.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/980955.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981024.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981024.page GMT
A paranoid man might have made something of the disappearance of the BA models from the display in WW last week.

I believe Tyranids are the next 40k army to come out, early next year. I expect tyranid warriors to be improved and made a better option. Plastic Trygon seems very likely, perhaps even with variant heads/builds. I'm dubious about the 4 brand new never seen before units, if this is the case I'd be very surprised if we got/saw models for them. My understanding is there is no scheduled release for Thunderwolf models in the foreseeable future so we can look forward to innumerable conversions with power armoured marines squashing plastic wolves, chaos hounds and so forth from the fantasy range.

FW should get their asses into gear and start knocking out much more fantasy stuff, Mr. Priestley is now installed in that department so it should be interesting ...Karl Franz on a big Dragon FTW.


I've heard some very vague talk about a WOTR box set,... dunno about that. It's an obvious thing to do from a POS idea but it seems to me to be a bit late for that.

One thing I don't think we'll see is a Warhammer Quest Hulk style release. I'd like it to happen but, AFAIK, the Hulk release is a one shot deal in more ways than one. That said it seems to have sold well so maybe the bean counters will take note and prod them. But this is GW and they do seem to have an almost pathological aversion to making easy money at times.

I think we're going to have to get used to the current and continuing tightening of the hatches with regards to leaks and rumours too. *sighs*]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981040.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981040.page GMT GW's DataNinja's are closing in on you. Hope you make it out alive.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981072.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981072.page GMT GW have their models on display upstairs in the museum in WW. Every now and again the models are removed when they are being used and photoed, say in a battle report...or for a new codex for example.

two months, man that is rough. You stay safe now.

Otehr good news was/is that Black Library will be unveiling their swanky new [url=http://www.blacklibrary.com/blog/default.asp?id=1405713056563455150]print on demand service[/url] which should see many long OOP books available again. If Watson's Space Marine novel is made available then hell will officially have frozen over.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981081.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981081.page GMT BL offerings! Comedic GOLD. Any word on their being e-book options? I carry a laptop out here with me, DAMN if I am a stack of books with me as well.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981087.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981087.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981091.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981091.page GMT BL offerings! Comedic GOLD. Any word on their being e-book options? I carry a laptop out here with me, DAMN if I am a stack of books with me as well.[/quote]

This comes up on the BL forums every now and again, their stock line is..

[quote]In short ebooks is something we're looking at but have no firm plans of what we might do or when that might happen[/quote]

Said on 5.8.09.

It's only some books will be tweaked, others will be reprinted "uncut" but labelled as a "Heretic Tome" and therefore out of canon so to speak.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981103.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981103.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981105.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981105.page GMT
With the captured Slaan and the Pain Glove and the Marine called 'Biff' who gets his head ripped off by a Zoat aboard a Tyranid Hive ship? That would be amazing to see that book again, assuming it was unedited.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981107.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981107.page GMT
And the interesting eating habits too.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981134.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981134.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981149.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981149.page GMT
The list for deletion/perma-purged with Fire?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981189.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981189.page GMT
The list for deletion/perma-purged with Fire?[/quote]That bad then? I know it's from the same era as the Inquisition Wars and Eye of Terror, but is it really that bad?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981242.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981242.page GMT
I was getting it mixed up with the Goto Eldar books.

This is the King one, right?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981659.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981659.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981819.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/245926/981819.page GMT