http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/15.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net SM characters have "combat tactics" where you can choose to fail a test if you wish. Meaning one could recieve a wound choose to fail fall out of combat autoregroup from Know no fear then open fire, recharge gain a bonus attack?

Resolving CC's follows wounds allocated correct? So If i recieve 2 wounds on my guy (leaving me with 1) and I kill 1 of theirs. thats two wounds on me and 1 on then so I would "lose the combat" thus making me subject to a test.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1313296.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1313296.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1313306.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1313306.page GMT
However in Close Combat you do not take checks for 25% casualties, you instead make a "break" test once you work out who has won combat.

And while they can choose to fail this test, the I6 stealers will likely catch them, causing No Retreat wounds (ok, max of two)

Remember: ATSKNF is NOT AN AUTOREGROUP - you auto *pass* the test, however you are still barred from making the test if, as is likely, the genestealers are still within 6" after they make their consolidation move.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1313310.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1313310.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1313327.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1313327.page GMT
However in Close Combat you do not take checks for 25% casualties, you instead make a "break" test once you work out who has won combat.

And while they can choose to fail this test, the I6 stealers will likely catch them, causing No Retreat wounds (ok, max of two)

Remember: ATSKNF is NOT AN AUTOREGROUP - you auto *pass* the test, however you are still barred from making the test if, as is likely, the genestealers are still within 6" after they make their consolidation move.[/quote]

I know that you don't check after 25% as that if for shooting phase. But I do see my confusion in my original post. I thought the "break" test was simply a moral test. I suppose i willl have to double check in the rule book before I can take this question any further.

As for the "autoregroup" I realize it is not, but since I can auto pass my moral test that was the reference. I'll get back to this thread i just gotta do a little homework real fast.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1314436.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1314436.page GMT
It is. The trigger is different, that's all.

Ordinarily, you take a morale test whenever you suffer 25% casualties in a phase. This test is ignored whilst locked in combat.

The test for losing a combat is also a morale test, but is taken for losing the combat, with a modifier for how many casualties you lost by. The percentage of the total unit made up by these casualties has no effect on it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1314448.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1314448.page GMT SM players seem to forget.

See: "shepherding those TH/SS terminators of the board with a rhino just behind them"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1314965.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1314965.page GMT SM because he can pass or fail it by choice. But I realize by falling back you are exposed to the risk of a sweeping advance (which I hadn't realized prior to making the post). I'm just trying to figure out best ways to utilize he ATSKNF and also combat tactics (choose to fail a morale test).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1315572.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1315572.page GMT SM because he can pass or fail it by choice. [/quote]

Only if Pappa Smurf(Marneus Calgar) is on the field. They can choose to fail or roll the test (With whatever -LD modifier)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316090.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316090.page GMT SM because he can pass or fail it by choice. But I realize by falling back you are exposed to the risk of a sweeping advance (which I hadn't realized prior to making the post). I'm just trying to figure out best ways to utilize he ATSKNF and also combat tactics (choose to fail a morale test).[/quote]

Well, they can choose to fail - not pass. They can only choose to pass if they have Marneus with them. And if they choose to pass they still trigger No Retreat!

Getting caught by SA triggers No Retreat!, which is unlikely to be a bad thing for the SM - however in most cases they are best to try to pass the test. CT is best used when being shot, so you can fall back, out of range of their assault, auto-regroup and pile in on your turn.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316102.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316102.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316124.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316124.page GMT
Have you rolled dice? No. Therefore you have passed the test automatically and suffer No Retreat!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316153.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316153.page GMT
-Runs and hides under his bridge-]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316167.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316167.page GMT
Although it was his right testicle]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316186.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316186.page GMT ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316575.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316575.page GMT 1: Since no dice are rolled, it's an automatic pass, and so you suffer No Retreat wounds.
or
2: Since you [i]choose[/i] whether to pass or fail, it's [i]not[/i] an automatic pass, and so you do not suffer No Retreat wounds.

It's been debated to death, so let's not start it up again here. Sort it out with your opponent before the game.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316593.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316593.page GMT ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316663.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1316663.page GMT 1: Since no dice are rolled, it's an automatic pass, and so you suffer No Retreat wounds.
or
2: Since you [i]choose[/i] whether to pass or fail, it's [i]not[/i] an automatic pass, and so you do not suffer No Retreat wounds.

It's been debated to death, so let's not start it up again here. Sort it out with your opponent before the game.[/quote]

The issue even more so breaks down to, where each group has the yard stick for determining automatic passing:

1) You see if it's automatic before the choice is made, thus failure is an option and god of war does not qualify as automatically passing.

2) You see if it's automatic after the choice is made, there is no possibility for failure so god of war does qualify as automatically passing.

No more correct than what you said, but it does seem to be the base cause of the disagreement between the two schools of thought.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1317423.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1317423.page GMT
But better not start this up again... ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1317841.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1317841.page GMT
it states [i]one third of the squad[/i]

as far as I'm concerned, it's a single model, losing one wound means there is still one model.

therefore, you can't claim morale check..]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1318128.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1318128.page GMT
it states [i]one third of the squad[/i]

as far as I'm concerned, it's a single model, losing one wound means there is still one model.

therefore, you can't claim morale check..[/quote]

Wat :O :O

Even if you lose 1 wound, and didn't remove any wounds from the other side, you lost the combat and must take a morale check (unless overridden by other rules)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1318227.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1318227.page GMT
it states [i]one third of the squad[/i]

as far as I'm concerned, it's a single model, losing one wound means there is still one model.

therefore, you can't claim morale check..[/quote]

Actually, it states 25% of the unit, and that is the morale check from shooting - which is entirely different to the morale check you take from losing combat.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1318298.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1318298.page GMT http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1318771.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/277919/1318771.page GMT